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posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 02:32 PM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
reply to post by b14warrior
 


You know what's funny? Sure, they can't do any of these things according to their religion, but no one is asking them to! Not only can't THEY be gay, they don't want anyone else to be gay, either! That's how they're operating these days... They can't take contraception, but neither can anyone else! They're actually forcing (by law) people to abide by Christian dogma, even if they don't believe in it.

I support freedom of religion, but that freedom doesn't include forcing others to behave according to their religion. I'm losing all patience with today's so-called Christians. :shk:


Here's the point : Christians can choose to do anything that they want to, nobody, including the Creator Himself, forces us to obey Him. What does anyone gain by following 'rules' that don't benefit us? But look around today - houses are locked and alarmed, prisons are overflowing, crime is everywhere, people murder and rape, children are walked to school for fear of pedophiles, broken families due to addictions of porn, drugs and alcohol, children learn to disrespect adults, teachers and police, teenage pregnancies, 4,000 babies a day are butchered through abortion.....I could keep on writing, but hopefully I've made the point that somebody else - not Christ Jesus - is leading our society to destruction as we abandon His laws and FIGHT for the right to have all this evil because we've been taught to think of it as "good". It's exactly what has you in its grasp, having taught you to fight for these ills of a morally decaying society as if they benefit you! As prophecied, this final generation will fight against Christ as His words are deemed old fashioned, racist, sexist, against 'human rights' etc, when in reality they are salvation. But not more than one hundred years ago, Biblical morality was held dearly. Now, Satan has done his thing by simply convincing enough people to love money and sin, which leads to a rejection of God Himself. It's a very easy process actually, hence your Creator's admonishment to choose good and life instead of evil and death. Perhaps one day He'll open your eyes as to why you now reject laws given to you that lead to good and life, as to why you reject laws designed to deliver you from evil and death. Perhaps one day He'll lead you to understand the importance of sodomy in mystery religions, and therefore why you've been made to accept it and why our little children are being indoctrinated into thinking of it as an acceptable practice. What's coming will be the worst time that this Earth has experienced. Evil and death will reign for a short while until it is burned up in the fire promised to end this Age - purging the world of sin and evil. Your ending, like mine, will be either fighting for the evil or for rejecting it. He is a heartfelt prayer away from showing you which side of the fence that you currently sit on. It is then your choice.




posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 02:42 PM
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Originally posted by b14warrior

Originally posted by StumpDrummer
reply to post by b14warrior
 


Wow another anti Christian/Religeon thread, who woulda thought well i made it through the first line.you need to do your homework a little more before you post ANOTHER ANTI RELIGEOUS THREAD..lol


And perhaps if you had read the thread you would have realised that this is not an 'anti-religious' thread.


No, it's just another thread like all the other ones here dealing with the exact same issue and the same passages in Leviticus, and all the same issues of non-religious people disagreeing with Christians on the issue. For me, I don't care what people do in their personal lives as long as it doesn't involve children. The agenda has been recently to go into the schoolrooms and indoctrinate the children and youth to justify a certain behavior, and then attack Christian families when they object.
Again, secular humanism at work in the schoolrooms and courtrooms.



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 02:46 PM
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reply to post by WhoKnows100
 





Here's the point : Christians can choose to do anything that they want to, nobody, including the Creator Himself, forces us to obey Him. What does anyone gain by following 'rules' that don't benefit us? But look around today - houses are locked and alarmed, prisons are overflowing, crime is everywhere, people murder and rape, children are walked to school for fear of pedophiles, broken families due to addictions of porn, drugs and alcohol, children learn to disrespect adults, teachers and police, teenage pregnancies, 4,000 babies a day are butchered through abortion


Yes, this is partially the result of secular humanism running rampant in the schoolrooms and courtrooms and a lack of real understanding of what is good for us and for society. Secular humanism tries to justify a need to do whatever one wants with no moral consequences, and religious humanism seeks to justify going out of traditional mores for the purpose of allowing whatever one wants. In other words, just make religion adjust to human needs based in moral relativity.



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 02:47 PM
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Originally posted by aardvark888
A few things wrong with this post.

1) The poster is an idiot
2) The (health) laws referred to only apply to the Jews of that day
3) The New Testament also condemns homosexuality.


1) The OP pointed out the state of hypocrisy that has existed within Christianity for almost 2000 years now, which was built off the hypocrisy of the Pharisees (and such) for some 1000 years or more before that. In a free world, it's good to be able to discuss such things. Yeah, for OP.

2) Leviticus wasn't just "health" laws, it was also laws on customs to define the national identity of the Jewish people. Some of those laws were established in order for the Tribes to act and look differently than the anti-Jewish religions that surrounded them. When we use a bit of common sense, just about all of the "crimes" mentioned in Leviticus are abominations to God and were punishable by death, but are now irrelevant.

3) When we turn to the original Hebrew and Greek, from the earliest text sources available, we read that the Bible only speaks of adult homosexuality in Leviticus (which we can argue could be irrelevant today). ALL of the other references to homosexuality are actually references to male prostitution between an adult and a young boy. Clearly, a child cannot (ever) truly give consent in such a relationship. That is much, much, much different than two adults giving mutual consent.

If you go back to the original languages and contexts, homosexuality wasn't really talked about. But the common trade of prostitution boys was widespread prevalent in the Roman empire. Unfortunately, the translators of the Bible and the inherent nature of translating into other languages is rampant with bias. I have studied this myself, thoroughly examined it, and I am convinced that apart from appealing to the Jewish identity in Leviticus, the Bible doesn't say anything else against mutually consenting adult same-sex relationships.

(Though, I'm sure many will disagree. I just ask that you learn Koine and Ancient Hebrew... and study social context which is part of how local people would have decoded or understood those words and messages during their time. It's a lot of work, but it's quite shocking how much our English Bibles do not match the letter and spirit of the sources.)



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 02:48 PM
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There's a lot of mentioning of "mixing" like it was the worst thing ever.. I wonder why that is?

It seems like they were trying to limit education, creativity and a sense of adventure..



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 02:48 PM
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reply to post by SilentKillah
 




Thanks... that actually does part of the job. I stand corrected in that it seems to state that we no longer need to be taught the law as the only way to enter heaven, but it doesn't quite capture the statement that Jews are the only one's that were susceptible to the Old Testament (or the "Law" was I learned it).


Well there is no statement in the Bible that says that the Jews are the only one's that were susceptible to the "Old Testament." The old law or Old Testament was done away with when the New Testament was put into place. Jesus Christ had to die on the cross in order for the New Law or New Testament to be established. Or as the following scripture says "new covenant"

Hebrews 9:15-22
For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance —now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.

In the case of a will, it is necessary to prove the death of the one who made it, because a will is in force only when somebody has died; it never takes effect while the one who made it is living. This is why even the first covenant was not put into effect without blood.

When Moses had proclaimed every command of the law to all the people, he took the blood of calves, together with water, scarlet wool and branches of hyssop, and sprinkled the scroll and all the people. He said, “This is the blood of the covenant, which God has commanded you to keep.” In the same way, he sprinkled with the blood both the tabernacle and everything used in its ceremonies.

In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.


Probably would be better to read the whole chapter of Hebrews 9 to get a better understanding.



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 02:54 PM
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reply to post by Shimri
 


You, like a few others confuse laws against sin and laws for rituals. Which were both laws under the OT and had to be obeyed!

The laws against sin are very much for Christians and they parallel the same laws in in the NT.

The ritual laws.. ie, sacrifice of animals, circumcision, no clothes of assorted fabrics, Not eating ham, rabbit... Etc.... are not for Christian or the Jews after Jesus said "it is finished" on the cross and "the temple veil was rent n two"

This is what the Apostle is talking about "liberty from the law" the rituals. Jesus's death was the ritual to end all rituals. God himself said "it is finished!" Thats good enough for me. Sin is still sin in the OT and NT.
You could live by the law. But the bible says you will be judged my it. If you choose to ignore the time of grace (NT) and use the law as an excuse or defence.

The "law" was not just the ten commandment both ritual and sin law, WAS THE LAW in the OT. If you were guilty of breaking one part of the law you broke the intire law.

The temple was the center of scrifice and ritual. Jesus was the last holy sacrifice "for this reason I came into the world" The perfect lamb for sacrifice.

This has been covered over and over here.

The NT states clearly OT sin is still NT sin and should be refrained from.
edit on 6-8-2012 by murphy22 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 03:05 PM
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It was my point because I thought it was a question of moral code. I think you sound pretty hateful yourself. And self-righteous too. I am stating my opinion like everyone else, like you. I don't claim to be an authority on anything. I am also careful not to include all Christians because I know plenty of kind hearted ones. I really don't care what you believe. To each their own. Live and let live. My point is again, don't force it on other people or dictate how others should live. If a person isn't harming you, you have no right to tell them how to live. My coping mechanisms is not yours. Period. I also think reading the bible is good but also reading other texts, studying other religions and non-religions. But is it necessary for morality - No. The Golden Rule. If LOVE is your message, then let it be your message. Everything else just seems like you liking the sound of your own voice and so called "wisdom." You and your commentary is not any different than anyone else on here.
reply to post by kisharninmah
 


You thought wrong. You assumed without knowing the facts from where I stand. You were confused yet spoke anyway...about?? I dont even remember.

Changing the way people think may indeed change the world. Im hopeful. You jumped on the band wagon when no one was talking to you. It was a dialogue between me and another poster and you took it upon yourself to make things clearer how YOU SAW it, from your own perception. Every one is different, therefore every single person on earth will perceive different. Do you get where Im at? Do you see my perception now that the assumptions are no longer assumptions and there is understanding?

This is what the thread is about. Hate. Not love. People perceiving things differently, yet their perception is the RIGHT one.

We agree about the golden rule.

We agree not to force a view on others. Live and let live.

We agree about religion and or spirituality and the fact its not for everyone.

LOVE was my point.... Not hate. Glad its now understood what my point was and still is.. Lol

Have I called you names or made a judgment upon your character? Nope... Why must you?

Your assumptions arent getting us anywhere except .. A possible War. This is why Jesus message is Love. I stand firm with the message.... Definitley not about going back and forth like a bunch of school kids calling each other names because one of us is not taking time to understand the other. Again, you made my point clear AGAIN. lol
edit on 6-8-2012 by MamaJ because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 03:12 PM
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Originally posted by MamaJ



It was my point because I thought it was a question of moral code. I think you sound pretty hateful yourself. And self-righteous too. I am stating my opinion like everyone else, like you. I don't claim to be an authority on anything. I am also careful not to include all Christians because I know plenty of kind hearted ones. I really don't care what you believe. To each their own. Live and let live. My point is again, don't force it on other people or dictate how others should live. If a person isn't harming you, you have no right to tell them how to live. My coping mechanisms is not yours. Period. I also think reading the bible is good but also reading other texts, studying other religions and non-religions. But is it necessary for morality - No. The Golden Rule. If LOVE is your message, then let it be your message. Everything else just seems like you liking the sound of your own voice and so called "wisdom." You and your commentary is not any different than anyone else on here.
reply to post by kisharninmah
 


You thought wrong. You assumed without knowing the facts from where I stand. You were confused yet spoke anyway...about?? I dont even remember.

Changing the way people think may indeed change the world. Im hopeful. You jumped on the band wagon when no one was talking to you. It was a dialogue between me and another poster and you took it upon yourself to make things clearer how YOU SAW it, from your own perception. Every one is different, therefore every single person on earth will perceive different. Do you get where Im at? Do you see my perception now that the assumptions are no longer assumptions and there is understanding?

This is what the thread is about. Hate. Not love. People perceiving things differently, yet their perception is the RIGHT one.

We agree about the golden rule.

We agree not to force a view on others. Live and let live.

We agree about religion and or spirituality and the fact its not for everyone.

LOVE was my point.... Not hate. Glad its now understood what my point was and still is.. Lol



Didn't you do the same by replying to this post in the first place? I made a comment on a discussion forum. You keep saying "love" and then judge and condemn others for doing exactly what you are doing. This thread is about calling out hypocrites and then people state their opinions. And what are you doing here, on this thread of "hate" anyway? Lmao (see I can lol too). Spreading your wisdom and love with lols? If you read your bible, then you would know it also says, "do not be wise your own eyes." I never said my perception is the right one but you seem to think yours is. You say with words that it isn't, but your actions show otherwise. So let's wait see what the all wise and loving mamaj has to say now?
edit on 6-8-2012 by kisharninmah because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 03:18 PM
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reply to post by kisharninmah
 


Hahaha... Honey Im not judging or condemning.... TRYING to show you that you assumed wrong. TRYING to show a message that has been forgotten in this very thread. Your assumptions are not getting us anywhere with dialogue. At all! Why? Because you dont understand STILL what it is I was/ am conveying in my first post that was not a reply to you. It was a reply to someone else.

You assumed wrong. Lol your reply to me was irrelevant and waste of time because you did not understand it was never about morals. Never did I say anythig about a moral code! And look... Here we are still not getting anywhere... Still off, dazed, confused and or assuming.

Now.... Im confused as to whether I need a drink or a smoke.
edit on 6-8-2012 by MamaJ because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 03:24 PM
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Originally posted by MamaJ
reply to post by kisharninmah
 


Hahaha... Honey Im not judging or condemning.... TRYING to show you that you assumed wrong. TRYING to show a message that has been forgotten in this very thread. Your assumptions are not getting us anywhere with dialogue. At all! Why? Because you dont understand STILL what it is I was/ am conveying in my first post that was not a reply to you. It was a reply to someone else.

You assumed wrong. Lol your reply to me was irrelevant and waste of time because you did not understand it was never about morals. Never did I say anythig about a moral code! And look... Here we are still not getting anywhere... Still off, dazed, confused and or assuming.

Now.... Im confused as to whether I need a drink or a smoke.
edit on 6-8-2012 by MamaJ because: (no reason given)


Do you even know what assumption means? I didn't assume anything. I agree, go take another hit of whatever you are smoking oh holy one. The whole moral thing was already over with. Wth are you even talking about now? You keep saying assumption, what assumption? No one assumed anything. I misread one quote and owned up to it. You went off on your soap box about how you're trying to convey love while loling hahahahing. We agree - you are confused.
edit on 6-8-2012 by kisharninmah because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 03:24 PM
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“LOL old testament does not apply, there is a new covenant with Jesus Christ. Before trying to bash christians maby get all your facts right.”
DominusIlluminatioMea
bible.cc...



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 03:25 PM
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reply to post by MamaJ
 



Jesus shows us how to treat one another because we are too dumb to get it.


What I'm getting from you here is that we'll never be able to do it ourselves. 2,000 years and we still haven't got it down.


While you are worried about saving the world the christian worries about their soul.


With no world, there's no need for a soul. You are worried about milk when you don't even have a glass to put it in.


Thats why MY POINT earlier was about the TEACHINGS of Jesus and how he taught his people to love.... Not hate. Accept and not judge. Dont fight. Just Love one another as yourself. The message is clear and has been clear for all who will listen, not just the christian.


That's not the message I've been getting lately. In fact, every other Christian is more than willing to black my eye for challenging their beliefs. Is THAT in the Bible? Not to mention the whole judging thing happens from both ends...

You know, it's just that it's all STUPID. And the worst part is that we stoop so low as to accept it for even one second. You adhere to the belief that a helpful lie is more important than a harmful truth.

And you don't even KNOW for a FACT what the truth is. See, what everyone is missing is that you have to build safeguards into these things so that humanity, which has a tendency to look after itself more than anything, doesn't turn it into a WEAPON or a BLINDFOLD. Because that's always what happens...either we use it against other people, or we use it against ourselves. We're still kids...but we think we know how to rule the world.
edit on 6-8-2012 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 03:37 PM
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Really...another Leviticus scripture thread?

Leviticus was a rule book for levite priests and layman on how to handle ritual cleanliness and the like...

Sadly people cant seem to grasp that...and its always the atheists that like to proclaim Christians are horrible hypocrites and then post a single verse of scripture to fit their needs.

Each BOOK of the bible is just that...a BOOK...to take a handful of verses is just idiotic. If I told you to read 2 sentences out of a book do you think you would have ANY idea what the intent, context, or meaning of anything in those two sentences truly meant?

Read more than snippets posted to fit peoples motives and you will see things are usually much less confusing.

Also...don't equate Christian behavior and words as representative of the Bible...because there is always a million christian that don't do anything the Bible says...and every christian is a human and with that comes the ability to make mistakes, do stupid stuff, and hold skewed, misconstrued, stupid beliefs in any number of ways etc.

Christian =/= perfect person
Christian =/= Bible
edit on 6-8-2012 by Dennislp3 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 03:45 PM
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Originally posted by kisharninmah

Originally posted by MamaJ
reply to post by kisharninmah
 


Hahaha... Honey Im not judging or condemning.... TRYING to show you that you assumed wrong. TRYING to show a message that has been forgotten in this very thread. Your assumptions are not getting us anywhere with dialogue. At all! Why? Because you dont understand STILL what it is I was/ am conveying in my first post that was not a reply to you. It was a reply to someone else.

You assumed wrong. Lol your reply to me was irrelevant and waste of time because you did not understand it was never about morals. Never did I say anythig about a moral code! And look... Here we are still not getting anywhere... Still off, dazed, confused and or assuming.

Now.... Im confused as to whether I need a drink or a smoke.
edit on 6-8-2012 by MamaJ because: (no reason given)


Do you even know what assumption means? I didn't assume anything. I agree, go take another hit of whatever you are smoking oh holy one. The whole moral thing was already over with. Wth are you even talking about now? You keep saying assumption, what assumption? No one assumed anything. I misread one quote and owned up to it. You went off on your soap box about how you're trying to convey love while loling hahahahing. We agree - you are confused.
edit on 6-8-2012 by kisharninmah because: (no reason given)


Im not trying to be above you like you are doing to me sweet pea.

You jumped in a comverstation telling ME what someone elses point was. Lol come on now... Lets get with the program. You assumed my very first post on this thread was saying something it was not intended to say. You confused yourself. Do you even know what you wrote? Do us both a favor, go back and read and get on the same page with me once and for all. Good god!

Yeah, the whole moral thing is over.... Now that ya aint assuming anymore and realize you jumped on the wagon without a seat.

So.... What do you want to say TO MY POST THEN? Ya know the one we have been talking about?? The first one. Go back and reply again .... Lets try to get it right this time and then YOU will see WE ARE THE SAME! Im. Ot above you, you are not above me.... Ha. Its a win win.

And quit with the holier than thou comments, they are making me want to throw the hell up!



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 03:45 PM
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www.sacred-texts.com...
It is impossible for a rational person to take the Bible literally as it contradicts itself. It has many authors* , some wise and others that simply rant.
One can call it cherry picking, but I see nothing wrong with emphasizing what is intelligent in a text and ignoring the silliness. For example, I admire en.wikipedia.org... but dismiss en.wikipedia.org...
* Many times a single "book" of the Bible even has many authors.



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 03:50 PM
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Originally posted by b14warrior
reply to post by stupid girl
 


Not faith hater at all. In fact the film which I recommended at the end shows Christians in some good light at the end of the film.
My point was that parts of the old testament if taken literally and not in a modern context can be at most dangerous and at least hurtful and polorising.
Plus it is just a discussion, no hate here.


Really? I Honestly thought that your point may have been to build up your own self esteem as you continue to refer to Christians as "you silly fundamentalist Christians", which is not at all hurtful in any way, shape, or form. I think you are taking entirely too much of this out of context, but it isn't for me to tell you how to perceive such things. If you have questions on your own sexuality or lifestyle, take comfort in the fact that He loves all of His children.



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 03:54 PM
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reply to post by RobinB022
 



If you have questions on your own sexuality or lifestyle, take comfort in the fact that He loves all of His children.


What about the ones he killed? What about the ones he let die? Of all of the people here on earth, how many has he stepped in to save, versus the ones that were blatantly allowed to die for no reason? Why give us something that is obviously destructive, and let us rain havoc and chaos on one another, then take the ones who lose hope and throw them into a fiery pit for all of eternity?

It is, quite literally, insane. He created us one way and didn't like the results, punished us and again set us loose to do the same exact thing. WHAT DID HE EXPECT WOULD HAPPEN?!?! For someone supposedly "omniscient", your god is amazingly obtuse and contrary.

Again, insane. Purely insane. "Take comfort..." We don't take comfort in mantras, we take comfort in concrete reality. We ask for peace. You know what we get? We get the BELIEF that everything will be alright, and the REALITY that wevery time we turn on CNN, 20 more people from our country have died over in the Middle East. We get 12 year olds appealing to Congress because they've had enough of what our leaders are doing to the world. We get radiactive fallout from Japan, and we get terrorists bombing the World Trade Center because we didn't take the warnings seriously. We get all of this stuff on the news, in our schools, in our movie theaters, and in our own homes.

Your god promises peace, happiness, and provisions for all of his children. Well, WHERE THE F**** IS IT?!?!?!
edit on 6-8-2012 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 03:57 PM
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Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by MamaJ
 



Jesus shows us how to treat one another because we are too dumb to get it.


What I'm getting from you here is that we'll never be able to do it ourselves. 2,000 years and we still haven't got it down.


While you are worried about saving the world the christian worries about their soul.


With no world, there's no need for a soul. You are worried about milk when you don't even have a glass to put it in.


Thats why MY POINT earlier was about the TEACHINGS of Jesus and how he taught his people to love.... Not hate. Accept and not judge. Dont fight. Just Love one another as yourself. The message is clear and has been clear for all who will listen, not just the christian.


That's not the message I've been getting lately. In fact, every other Christian is more than willing to black my eye for challenging their beliefs. Is THAT in the Bible? Not to mention the whole judging thing happens from both ends...

You know, it's just that it's all STUPID. And the worst part is that we stoop so low as to accept it for even one second. You adhere to the belief that a helpful lie is more important than a harmful truth.

And you don't even KNOW for a FACT what the truth is.


Look at us now. Look at the world? Its a joke. Its all falling to pieces. This is not what I want, nor what I want to see and its sure not somewhere I want to live. This world is coo coo for cocoa puffs. Lol

A world gone ( earth) does not mean there would be no souls. Come on now.

Im not a christian... Saying it again for the record just in case some are still confused.

Christians just as any other religious groups defend what they think they know. Just as you do... Just as I do. Its personal... More personal for them as they believe in a eternal hell. They wanna be saved and save others. Lol its funny really.

No one knows the facts.... Not even you but we can learn history, learn our surroundings and make OUR OWN MIND at peace with what it is we think we have concluded.

I personally have only concluded a few things.

One is.... Love is the answer. Not fighting.... Not calling names... Not saying im better than you.... Just loving you for YOU. I dont feel as though I need saving. I dont think you need saving.... I just think we all need more understanding and acceptance.

My youngest son is 8.

He heard about the chick fil a stuff and said he felt bad for the gays. He was sad. My kids are taught by me.... Not church. They are taught to love everyone and try to understand their difference. Each person is beautiful in their own right.

Here is where Jesus comes in.

If my son were raped and killed and I had the chance to rape and kill them..... Why wouldnt I want to? I would be out of my skin wanting to kill that person. However.... jesus shows me another way. His way.

His way has kept me out of a lot of trouble .... Like a big brother. So be it. It works for me however it may not work for you. Thats ok. :-)

I havent connected with any other teacher like Jesus. If he is not real.. I havent hurt anyone by spreading the light of love.
edit on 6-8-2012 by MamaJ because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 03:57 PM
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I see most fundamentalists as followers of the anti-Christ. I am speaking metaphorically. I do not believe in a literal anti-Christ. However, they have an image of Jesus that is exactly the opposite (anti) of who Christ was and what his message was.
www.youtube.com...





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