Christians cant eat lobster, wear polyester, wear gold, eat rabbit, have tattoos, get divrced, have

Originally posted by kisharninmah
reply to post by ARRedNeck

 

Okay, but that goes back to the OP. Many Christians don't keep the law. And don't live by faith either. They use it as an excuse for everything. Whether from the old testament or the new testament, a lot of Christians pick and choose whatever the scriptures they put their so called faith in in order to support their lifestyle and hatred.

Yep! Not only do they not obey the Law of Moses, most cannot quote those Laws either. But they always accuse Gay people, and Wiccan people, and say we are going to Hell. Among other vile things. But if one of us quotes a Law back to them? They get really mad, and say we do not understand the Bible, or have taken something out of context.

Originally posted by wittgenstein
Are you saying that cancer, malaria, the struggle for life etc are not natural? Are you saying that God did not create nature?
Nature is cruel. Is that God getting it right? Or did God not create the natural world?

Its not complicated.. its as simple as this... Did God make you do any of the bad things you have done in life? No...
It was your choice. Mans will and his bad decisions caused disease and famine, and war. The devil comes to steal and kill and destroy. and he doesnt play fair.. the devil hates you... really hates... Jesus loves you. and so do I.

Originally posted by autowrench

Originally posted by kisharninmah
reply to post by ARRedNeck

 

Okay, but that goes back to the OP. Many Christians don't keep the law. And don't live by faith either. They use it as an excuse for everything. Whether from the old testament or the new testament, a lot of Christians pick and choose whatever the scriptures they put their so called faith in in order to support their lifestyle and hatred.

Yep! Not only do they not obey the Law of Moses, most cannot quote those Laws either. But they always accuse Gay people, and Wiccan people, and say we are going to Hell. Among other vile things. But if one of us quotes a Law back to them? They get really mad, and say we do not understand the Bible, or have taken something out of context.

Jesus doesn't hate gays. anyone who says he does is misinformed.. Why would he hate them if he died for them? As a matter of fact, he died BECAUSE of their sin..

Your facts are kind of flawed. But only because you are making references to both the old and new testament together. You quote all kinds of stuff from the "old law" in Leviticus. The whole point of Jesus coming according to the bible was that he could free us from the old law and the inability to ever be perfect according to the ten commandments. The Jewish people would sacrifice their finest lambs to God once a year to cover the sins of their families for the coming year. When Jesus came (according to scripture) he became a perfect sacrifice, dying without sin so that we could go directly to God through him to ask for forgiveness. Jesus delivered christians from having to abide by the old laws of Moses. Jesus was the fulfillment of law.


Romans 8:3–4

For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit

Here's a reference regarding christians not being able to eat certain foods as well champ.....



9 The next day, as they went on their journey and drew near the city, Peter went up on the housetop to pray, about the sixth hour. 10 Then he became very hungry and wanted to eat; but while they made ready, he fell into a trance 11 and saw heaven opened and an object like a great sheet bound at the four corners, descending to him and let down to the earth. 12 In it were all kinds of four-footed animals of he earth, wild beasts, creeping things, and birds of the air. 13 And a voice came to him, "Rise, Peter; kill and eat." 14 But Peter said, "Not so, Lord! For I have never eaten anything common or unclean." 15 And a voice spoke to him again the second time, "What God has cleansed you must not call common." 16 This was done three times. And the object was taken up into heaven again. Acts 10:9-16 NKJV

Also your comments on Mark not being a friend to people who are divorced are null and void. Why? Because if you are going according to the bible it says that sin can be forgiven by christ. So you pull adultery out of the hat as an example? Well I'd say to you have you ever told a lie? What's the difference? In christianity there is no "level" of sin (unless you count mocking the holy spirit which was deemed unforgivable). Now Catholics are a different story altogether, but I don't think you could follow me if I elaborated on that either. The point is that according to scripture coming out of the same book you are selectively quoting, all you have to do is repent and believe the Jesus is the son of God and you are golden.



I should note that I'm not telling you this is absolutely correct and the way I think, but you should do a little bit of digging before you bash something and a group of people in general. It doesn't matter how you feel about the way "some christians" act, because if you in turn write something like this you are pretty much being just as judgmental as you accuse them of being. Believe me I have my issues with christianity and have been through just about as much because of it than anyone you probably know. But I prefer to keep my comments smart. It's always fun to nail a pretentious and zealous christian with little to no idea why they believe what they believe to the wall, but it's all about good taste. Not all christians are bad either. Some have the best intentions. And some are the best people you could ever want to meet.

reply to post by MamaJ


Wow, for someone with so much love, you sure are arguing a lot, like an angry little crow. And you don't even make sense. You see, this here is a forum. You read what people post and then you comment on it. It doesn't matter who said what to who first. If you read something and you want to make comment on it, then you make a comment. I hope you get it right this time. You are the only one acting better than everyone else. What's the expression: The pot calling the kettle black.

"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." -Mohandas Gandhi



that quote just keeps getting more and more relevant as time goes on.

“It was your choice. Mans will and his bad decisions caused disease and famine, and war.”
sensible1
I agree that some famines (however, there are many famines not caused by man) are created by man because of greed and not following ecological principles. And obviously, wars are our fault. However, most diseases originated in the natural world. Are you saying that man created www.environmentalgraffiti.com... or www.thefamilyinternational.org... ?
Are you saying that a child is responsible for the sins of his father?
www.biblegateway.com...
I do not believe in answers.yahoo.com... ! I think that if my Dad robbed a bank, I should not go to prison for his crime.

I haven't read through every single comment on here, and I'm sure most have already moved on. Would just like to add my two cents to this.

First of all, the old law covenant given to Moses that was a literal LAW for a literal nation of people (the Israelites) was done away with when Jesus died.

The Bible does tell us that there are certain things that were stipulated in the law that still need to be followed, and also there are things that were requirements of mankind BEFORE the law was given.

One example, fornication was always wrong, before or after the law. Taking blood was ALWAYS wrong. In fact when Noah and his family disembarked from the ark one of the few commands Jehovah God gave Noah, after giving humans permission to eat animal flesh was this:

(Genesis 9:4) . . .Only flesh with its soul—its blood—you must not eat.

So we see things such as God's sanctity of blood was not just part of a law to a nation, rather it was a requirement for all mankind.

In any event, if anyone wants to argue over whether or not the law is valid and what laws have to be followed you don't have to go further than the Bible itself. The governing body of Christians under divine inspiration wrote the following:


(Acts 15:28, 29) . . .For the holy spirit and we ourselves have favored adding no further burden to YOU, except these necessary things, 29 to keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication.. . .


Out of the entire law given to Israel, these things were the only things necessary to continue to follow: to abstain from things sacrificed to idols, to abstain from blood, from things strangled and from fornication.

Fornication comes from the Greek word porneia and has to do with any form of illicit sex outside the marriage bond as instituted by man's Creator, Jehovah God. Fornication would include any form of sex relations between a man and woman who are not married, oral sex, anal sex, even mutual masturbation (not self-masturbation), it would also include sex between people of the same sex and also bestiality. In the Bible all forms of sexual activity outside the sacred arrangement of God-instituted marriage is fornication and condemned by God. All of these things would disqualify a person a person from being a true Christian.

Most religions who claim to be Christian do not follow even these simple guidelines, and it is very understandable why non-Christians would be angry at the hypocrisy inside Christendom. For they condemn others while they themselves do not do the things required by the God whom they profess they worship.

God hates violence as much as he hates fornication in all of its debasing forms. Yet many people who are very vocal about opposing homosexuals, for example, are very violent people and love violence. You can see the hypocrisy.

Yet, when Jesus was on the earth, he associated with people, who even under the law, were condemned. Because he knew the purpose of it. In fact, when asked what were the greatest of all of the laws God* had given to the nation of Israel to follow this is what he stated:

(Matthew 22:35-40) And one of them, versed in the Law, asked, testing him: “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” He said to him: “‘You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind.’ This is the greatest and first commandment. The second, like it, is this, ‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’ On these two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets.”

Jesus realized that the spirit of the law was to teach love. Love of God and love of fellowman. If one did not have love, then he missed the whole purpose of the law. Love even of ones who do not do what is right, even one ones enemies.

Many condemn the Bible because it permitted slavery. Yet the slavery under the law covenant WAS NOT anything like modern-day slavery. It was permitted for a person who could not afford to pay a debt off, as a form of payment. And the person who became a slave, had rights and had to be treated fairly. And they could only be in slavery for a maximum of six years. On the seventh they had to be set free. And no land could be sold in perpetuity. It always had to be returned to the family it was assigned on the seventh year. The law protected foreigners, and gave rights even to animals. It stipulated for example that a man could not muzzle a bull while it was threshing. It even stated things as a goat could not be cooked in its mothers milk, as that would not be something natural.

The law was perfect and made for a very civil, honorable society. Christians are no longer under the law, except for the few stipulated above. Yet its spirit is worthy of imitation.

Hatred for God and the Bible by many on this board and in the world is misplaced because of ignorance, and because of those who misrepresent Jehovah. Yet he does have witnesses to defend the truth.

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

I understand the first part of what you said, because He went on to say 'let he who is without sin' as you obviously know. The rest I'm not so sure about. The deeper questions and truths I still struggle with, I think we all do. Mostly my posts are just to try to point out there is more to this than MTV crowd likes to think, ie, Christians are just all simpletons. It's sad really. I appreciate your response.

I love seeing huge threads about someone who probably never existed and misunderstood stories based on solar mythology. Gotta love it and laugh! HAHA! I'll join you while I wait for my chicken boobs to cook.

I love how the word of 'god' had to be rewritten. That just cracks me up. How convenient! For as long as christians (spell check wants me to cap the word christian lol) murdered people and burned cultural history to the ground and viewed non believers as lowly sub humans it sure is funny to see how big of a joke it's becoming as more and more people 'see the light' and grow up. I won't just pick on christianity and jesus though. Religion as a whole has, as a matter of historical fact, caused more death, destruction, war, and hatred among humans since it was conceived, save for natural death.. more anguish than can even be comprehended, and the sad thing is that it's all a farce. People sadly keep falling for it, using it as an excuse, a shoulder to cry on, a HUGE crutch, and there isn't even any factual data to support most of it. Christianity and religion for the most part is founded on 2nd hand information, hearsay. I'm not at all happy that so many humans are satisfied with it and settle for so little because it really holds the rest of the world back. Damn, if only the majority had relied on real data and information instead of the extreme minority, who suffered greatly at the hands of christians (Galileo, anyone?) by the way, there is no doubt that our civilization would be a LOT farther along our evolutionary path by now. And yeah, that really pisses me off!

reply to post by autowrench


I always enjoy your posts.... Ive learned stuff I didnt know before, by reading them. Thanks :-)

There are a lot of things over the years that have just blown my mind when it comes to having a conversation with someone who is a christian. ( if you are a nice one reading this then this does not apply to you)

I may have two friends who I can TALK to about my thoughts regarding the Bible, ancient texts, and so on however I come to ATS to learn more about not just other peoples views but also because I find truth in every ones belief.

One can love Jesus, and not be a christian.

One can love buddha and not be a budhist.

The main thing that hurts my heart is the christian will most likely not even give me a chance before thinking im going to hell and trying to save me, all the while I want to teach them another way to view certain texts. They want to tell me how to take the scripture.... When.... I dont have much faith in them so to me its pointless unless jesus said it and its in red. Lol even then.... Men were at work with this text so.... Its not very trustworthy.

If I do not have complete faith with every word in the Bible, im not going to hell but according to most every christian ive encountered I am. Thanks mr christian.... I need to be like you. We all just need to be like....? Which christian? Of which denomination? I love jesus but I dont like what they have done with his teachings.

When I view it as a book its easier than thinking its the word of god. The word of god is in every one of us as far as Im concerned not in a book thats been tangled up and played with over the years.

I believe in reincarnation. So what if someone doesnt. Does not mean they are going to hell.

The chick fil a has gotten to me. I admit it... Its just so sad people hurt other people with their words and their actions when it would have been easier and peaceful without the hateful words.

Im no saint... At all.... But treating others nice is just the right thing to do if there ever was a right.

Originally posted by kisharninmah
reply to post by MamaJ

 

Wow, for someone with so much love, you sure are arguing a lot, like an angry little crow. And you don't even make sense. You see, this here is a forum. You read what people post and then you comment on it. It doesn't matter who said what to who first. If you read something and you want to make comment on it, then you make a comment. I hope you get it right this time. You are the only one acting better than everyone else. What's the expression: The pot calling the kettle black.

I would rather you call me an angry little devil. Lol

Im not upset.... Why are you?

This is just a forum.... We are discussing views...?

Its hard over a pc... I get it.

I was ready to get into a deeper conversation while you were reading me wrong in the posts and while it was funny and frustrating it also taught me something. So, thanks!

I see others perceptions pretty well and I was trying to do just that.... Give mine .... without it derailing into people assuming my views when they are not me nor had I had been given the chance to offer mine.

It happens a lot because the non christian will jump on me as if i am one because i mention loving jesus. Happens ALL the time. I get it from both the christian and the non christian.

Originally posted by MamaJ

Originally posted by kisharninmah
reply to post by MamaJ

 

Wow, for someone with so much love, you sure are arguing a lot, like an angry little crow. And you don't even make sense. You see, this here is a forum. You read what people post and then you comment on it. It doesn't matter who said what to who first. If you read something and you want to make comment on it, then you make a comment. I hope you get it right this time. You are the only one acting better than everyone else. What's the expression: The pot calling the kettle black.

I would rather you call me an angry little devil. Lol

Im not upset.... Why are you?

This is just a forum.... We are discussing views...?

Its hard over a pc... I get it.

I was ready to get into a deeper conversation while you were reading me wrong in the posts and while it was funny and frustrating it also taught me something. So, thanks!

I see others perceptions pretty well and I was trying to do just that.... Give mine .... without it derailing into people assuming my views when they are not me nor had I had been given the chance to offer mine.

It happens a lot because the non christian will jump on me as if i am one because i mention loving jesus. Happens ALL the time. I get it from both the christian and the non christian.

Well, now you don't seem mad. Before you did. I'm not mad either, but if you come after in a way that I think or feel is hypocritical, I'm going to say something. Anyway, it's like that for everybody who expresses an opinion that someone else strongly opposes. I really didn't assume anything about your views. I didn't actually think your were a christian. I'm an agnostic. And I am strongly for acceptance - beyond tolerance. I've read and studied religious texts too. I feel that you didn't see my perceptions the way you thought you did or think you can, and you made an assumption about me. I'm not saying I'm right. I'm saying that is how I felt about the whole thing.

reply to post by defcon5


Let me be more clear.

I was stating that Hos 3 and Dan 9 deal with the Temple being destroyed and the loss of the ability to present sacrifices and offerings.

Eze 44-48 talk about a temple with sacrifices and offerings being offered. It has nothing to do with RCC, as most Jews themselves believe this to be the case as well, else the whole book is wrong, as no temple has been built in the manner described in Ezekiel, and the prince bringing sacrifice and offering in 45:17 can be none other than the Messiah, whether as Melchizadek or as the mixed bloodlines of Aaron/David.

reply to post by defcon5


Sorry but you are very much incorrect. There is a great deal of history you have completely misconstrued.
I just got home from a 12 hour day or I'd go into more detail and perhaps will this weekend. As for now, I suggest you search some credible sites concerning the history and timeline of the bible and not just the English translation. I don't blame you directly, you have just been instructed incorrectly by someone else who had the wrong information.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
reply to post by Fromabove

 

Originally posted by Fromabove
I will take it that you're a homosexual.

Ha! You mean you ASSUME... You think only homosexuals fight for gay rights? :shk:

Exactly.
I am not a gay man, but I do fight for the rights of my gay brethren.

Many condemn the Bible because it permitted slavery. Yet the slavery under the law covenant WAS NOT anything like modern-day slavery. It was permitted for a person who could not afford to pay a debt off, as a form of payment. And the person who became a slave, had rights and had to be treated fairly.

This is the cognitive dissonance I speak of. The internal moral compass conflicts with the morality of the Bible so Christians reinterpret The Bible in a way that allows them to exist in the modern World.

In this case. Slavery then is not what it is now. The truth is. It's the same.

Not only does the whole of the Bible not condemn it, but it's encouraged in many parts. Slavery is condemned in our modern morality, and Christians hold to that modern non-biblical moral. It's in conflict with the Bible and so a scapegoat is needed to reconcile that juxtaposition. This is very common. The Bible's code of ethics says rape victims should be forced to marry their rapist. Internal conflict > scapegoat created.

So let's put this to the test. Let's see if slavery looks the same then or not. You claim it's a different beast. You claim it's really just a service, like being a butler, and the Bible mandates fair treatment.

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46)

1. They can be purchased. So it's not like they volunteered for the job. How do we define slavery now?

2. You can purchase their children.

3. You can pass them on to your children as permanent inheritance. They literally can never be freed. Definitely not like a butler.

4. What you claim clearly is in conflict with "You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way." CLEARLY it is being said they need NOT be treated fairly and are viewed as lesser people.

Would you like me to analyze other parts of the Bible concerning this different version of slavery or is once enough?

**Edited to add: There are passages that seem to just as clearly condemn slavery in The Bible. So even the Bible is in moral conflict internally That's another big issue... the inconsistencies. Now before you point out that I referenced OT... keep in mind I was responding specifically to your use of the word Bible (OT and NT). Secondly if you would like to challenge me to slavery in the NT I will accept it.

I was raised (at least from my teenage years forward) as a Christian. But I haven't attended church or read my bible for at least ten years. I suppose at some point I determined I wanted more from life than that lifestyle provided for me.

Racially I am a white American- some English, German, some Dutch, and some Irish. Mother says a tiny bit of Blackfeet and while it doesn't seem likely I don't doubt her sincerity. You'll notice I didn't mention Hebrew, Jewish or Roman. I suppose what I'm trying to say is that the Christian faith or religion isn't appropriate for me, or is a partial fit. You could say I sort of lightly cleave to some parts of Christianity but not all. I try to be decent and empathetic and to treat people well. I need to find my own way. I pray to Jesus occasionally.

I have come to believe that all the darkness of the Devil and all the goodness of God is found within me.

I suspect many Christians take what they want from the Bible and discard the rest. Like me they find much of the Bible to be frightening or bloody, or just nonsensical, and keep what they like.

This is where the inconsistency comes from. If some people at once condemn homosexuality and eat lobsters it's because they have their own ideas about what to do and find buggery to be creepy and insane and lobsters to be tasty.

I wish all of them would find themselves able to regard the Bible as what it is- just a book written by a variety of long-dead people.

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


It seems more to me like the "cognitive dissonance" comes from your group. There was only so much room to write, so an in detail account of the difference between what you consider slavery and what was slavery in the Law Covenant was not discussed in the post.

Let us consider in more detail slavery under the law covenant:


- Kidnapping a man and then selling him was punishable by death. (Exodus 21:16) However, if despite all the provisions made to prevent poverty, an Israelite found himself deeply in debt, perhaps as a result of poor management, he could sell himself as a slave. In some cases he might even be able to earn a surplus by which he could redeem himself (Leviticus 25:47-52). This was what was referred to in the post above.

- This was not the oppressive kind of slavery that has been common in many lands through the ages. Leviticus 25:39, 40 says: “In case your brother grows poor alongside you and he has to sell himself to you, you must not use him as a worker in slavish service. He should prove to be with you like a hired laborer, like a settler.” So this was a loving provision to care for Israel’s poorest.

- A person found guilty of stealing who was unable to make full restitution according to the Law could be sold as a slave and in this way pay off his debt. (Exodus 22:3) When he had worked off the debt, he could go free.

- Cruel and abusive slavery was not allowed under God’s Law to Israel. While masters were allowed to discipline their slaves, excesses were forbidden. A slave killed by his master was to be avenged. (Exodus 21:20) If the slave was maimed, losing a tooth or an eye, he was set free.—Exodus 21:26, 27.

-The maximum time that any Israelite would have to serve as a slave was six years. (Exodus 21:2) Hebrew slaves were set free in the seventh year of their service. The Law demanded that every 50 years all Israelite slaves were to be set free nationwide, regardless of how long the individual had been a slave.—Leviticus 25:40, 41.

- When a slave was released, the master was required to be generous toward him. Deuteronomy 15:13, 14 says: “In case you should send him out from you as one set free, you must not send him out empty-handed. You should surely equip him with something from your flock and your threshing floor and your oil and winepress.”

Among the Israelites the status of the Hebrew slave differed from that of a slave who was a foreigner, alien resident, or settler. Whereas the non-Hebrew remained the property of the owner and could be passed on from father to son (Le 25:44-46), the Hebrew slave was to be released in the seventh year of his servitude or in the Jubilee year, depending upon which came first. During the time of his servitude the Hebrew slave was to be treated as a hired laborer. (Ex 21:2; Le 25:10; De 15:12) A Hebrew who sold himself into slavery to an alien resident, to a member of an alien resident’s family, or to a settler could be repurchased at any time, either by himself or by one having the right of repurchase. The redemption price was based on the number of years remaining until the Jubilee year or until the seventh year of servitude. (Le 25:47-52; De 15:12) When granting a Hebrew slave his freedom, the master was to give him a gift to assist him in getting a good start as a freedman. (De 15:13-15) If a slave had come in with a wife, the wife went out with him. However, if the master had given him a wife (evidently a foreign woman who would not be entitled to freedom in the seventh year of servitude), she and any children by her remained the property of the master. In such a case the Hebrew slave could choose to remain with his master. His ear would then be pierced with an awl to indicate that he would continue in servitude to time indefinite.—Ex 21:2-6; De 15:16, 17.

Such an examination also reveals that the kind of slavery practiced by God’s people in the Bible is not the cruel and abusive slavery that is envisioned by most people today. And the Bible shows that God will deliver us from all forms of slavery in due time. Then, all mankind will enjoy true freedom.—Isaiah 65:21, 22.

reply to post by b14warrior


Well at least some people are depriving themselves from eating some of the things otherwise we would need quite a few more farms to make enough: cow, chicken, lamb, veil, pigs, rabbits, moose, horse, fish, crocodile, buffalo, yak and snails and lettuce and tomatoes....And many many more. All for 7 billion hungry humans and still counting! Apparently, the rate of population growth is: an exponential function. So the more we are the faster more are being born. Is food production exponential? Better yet! Are food resources even available for an extra 4 billion? Is iron exponential? We eat Iron but very little of it!

Maybe the fact that Muslims and Jews don't eat pork and Hindus don't eat cows (which both make a significant amount of the world population) helps instil a balance in the rate of food consumption. So we can produce more than we can eat. If everybody would eat everything then how do we ensure we have enough for everybody all the time?

Do you not see the whole picture? That the teachings of our past which show that some don't eat pork and some don't eat cows and some don't eat meat and smoke a lot of weed (Rstafarian) seems like a good idea in the long run.

Plus, most religious people fast at some point during the year at different times. Giving small break to the production and rest for their spirits and body. Join us!!!!!

LOL relax.....I feel a lot of hate from your words.