Is Jesus the only way to God?

Originally posted by studythem1

Originally posted by Elsha
reply to post by autowrench

 

When one empire conqured another they usually changed the names of the gods and goddesses. This can be verfied by history books such as Josephus the jewish secular historian. So in the book of Isaiah God complains against the jewish women for baking cakes to "the queen of heaven". Semiramus, Isis, Ashtarte, Diana, Athena are all the same women. The Deified Mary is the latest queen of heaven. hence the worship....much paganism can be found in Catholicism because the romans had to mix roman paganism with biblical christianity and roman catholicism was the result. Much of the ancient pagan worship is till in RCC for example: Baby Jesus and Mary with the halos. The halos is totally ancient pagan going back to Babylon. You can still find pictures of Semiramus and baby Tammuz with halos and swear it was little baby Jesus and Mary. Another example: The RCC numerals IHS which most people think is a latin reference to Christ would be surprised to know it actually stands for Isis/Horus/Set. The iron cross that the RCC uses is totally pagan as the nazi's understood.

But dont forget that does not mean the claims of the Old and New Testament's are wrong. It just means evil exists and evil intelligent beings know how to copy truth to distort it.....

so under this logic...it is entirely possible that Jesus was hijacked and used as another vehicle to push the Osiris cult...or the cult of Mithra...the parallels are incredible if one takes the time to look at them...but there is no way possible that this was the case...none at all...those early church fathers were just so pious and heavenly...right?

but no lets ignore that...and lets just keep believing that the old world was a golden age where one religion was magically preserved while others were eradicated simply because those that supported it were nice guys...yep lets just ignore all the evil and lecherous scoundrels that were its proponents throughout the church history since it was forced on the rest of the known world back then...

Yeah that would make sense except Mithras and Osiris did not teach the teachings Christ did. You are comparing Christ with those figures but you are not judging them by their fruits so to speak. The parallels you speak of are the birth and resurrection stories of Osiris/Mithras, however we have no witness testamony accredited to particular individuals for those as opposed to Christ. There are many "Dying" gods but none of them contain the wisdom of Jesus Christ.

Originally posted by Deetermined
Play ignorant all you want. If you know the Bible, than you should already know all of the references referring to hell being in the heart of the earth. Do you think the center of the earth is made up of hot molten lava for nothing?

i was pointing out your obvious ignorance...since your logic would lead me to believe you still subscribed to old medieval science and assumptions...and i suppose that is hell...the center of the earth???

so do Mars, Jupiter, Uranus or the other planets all have their own little personal hell? so if a sinner died on the moon, would he be thrown into the core of the moon?

really...

Where exactly is your source on this? Are you sure you have one? A link would be appreciated.

we dont need to do this since you have already read it as well...and you are just baiting me...i was going off what i read 9 years ago, but i see he has added to the pile of mitochondrial evidence, but that does not mean it is refuted...since when can a man refute his own evidence? he can only add to it...

Are you serious? You don't see the connections between them all? Are you blind?

im not blind, i just dont get 2 distinct books confused...each of them is a distinctly different text...i can take the information i find in all of them and compile my personal opinion, but thats for me...i dont have to make you believe any of it...

So, what is it that you believe again? You jump around so much it's hard to tell. Is God the one true God and Creator? Where does Jesus fit in, according to you?

what is this the Spanish inquisition? i do not jump around...read all of my posts and then say that...also again read all of my posts...im not answering it for you again...and i do not like to use 'god', because there are many gods, but our language does not give us an adequate word to describe the one, we have to use a whole sentence to be specific, which i do not care to repeat every time i turn around...

and... you just answered it below...

So, you admit that they were all impersonating the Creator, but you think their story is more intact and truthful than the Bible?

the texts were written from the human perspective, not the "gods" perspective, but they did not enshroud them in mystery, or leave out things...and yes their account of the creation and the flood was closer to the events...so i tend to believe their authenticity on that before i believe the one that plagiarized the original badly...

So, how were they punished? Where were they sent?

depends on which group you refer to...the sons of god were punished...but their leader was sent to mars to die...later, the whole Annunaki group was punished, but it does not mention if they were banished, or they were just leaving "voluntarily"...i believe they were given a choice and the worst of them were placed in between dimensions, where they try to manipulate people today...especially the elite...their spiritual and literal offspring...

i believe that the creators messengers (angels for lack of a better label) have since then attempted to set what was wrong, back right...but they cannot interfere too much...they must honor our free will...that is why they dont just spill the beans and wave a magic wand...we have to be involved...we have to choose, we have to resist evil...the kingdom of the creator, is not a dictatorship...where everything is going to be promised for us...and all we have to do is slave away...every one of us has got to be involved/engaged in it...but its still our choice...

The waters were more alive then than today? What is that supposed to mean? It appears as though you're grabbing at straws on reaching a definition on Abzu and whether this place or any of the gods were real or not? And you say the Bible is confusing. The fact that you claim these stories make more sense than the Bible, but you don't know if any of these places or beings are spiritual or real speaks volumes.

yes the water was more alive than it is today...i guess we should forget about pollution as well...i dont grab at straws on definitions...i believe they were real but not gods...although some claimed to be falsely...and yes the bible is confusing...but i am not confused...and yes they make more sense...because they did not omit the details...as the editors of bible have done repeatedly...

have you ever had a child lie to you? they tell part of the story, but try and conceal the rest? well i dont get that from the Sumerian...however i do get that uneasiness from the bible in several places...and i have to call it what it is...regardless of all the historical backing it has...concocted backing or otherwise...

Originally posted by NihilistSanta

Originally posted by studythem1

Originally posted by Elsha
reply to post by autowrench

 

When one empire conqured another they usually changed the names of the gods and goddesses. This can be verfied by history books such as Josephus the jewish secular historian. So in the book of Isaiah God complains against the jewish women for baking cakes to "the queen of heaven". Semiramus, Isis, Ashtarte, Diana, Athena are all the same women. The Deified Mary is the latest queen of heaven. hence the worship....much paganism can be found in Catholicism because the romans had to mix roman paganism with biblical christianity and roman catholicism was the result. Much of the ancient pagan worship is till in RCC for example: Baby Jesus and Mary with the halos. The halos is totally ancient pagan going back to Babylon. You can still find pictures of Semiramus and baby Tammuz with halos and swear it was little baby Jesus and Mary. Another example: The RCC numerals IHS which most people think is a latin reference to Christ would be surprised to know it actually stands for Isis/Horus/Set. The iron cross that the RCC uses is totally pagan as the nazi's understood.

But dont forget that does not mean the claims of the Old and New Testament's are wrong. It just means evil exists and evil intelligent beings know how to copy truth to distort it.....

so under this logic...it is entirely possible that Jesus was hijacked and used as another vehicle to push the Osiris cult...or the cult of Mithra...the parallels are incredible if one takes the time to look at them...but there is no way possible that this was the case...none at all...those early church fathers were just so pious and heavenly...right?

but no lets ignore that...and lets just keep believing that the old world was a golden age where one religion was magically preserved while others were eradicated simply because those that supported it were nice guys...yep lets just ignore all the evil and lecherous scoundrels that were its proponents throughout the church history since it was forced on the rest of the known world back then...

Yeah that would make sense except Mithras and Osiris did not teach the teachings Christ did. You are comparing Christ with those figures but you are not judging them by their fruits so to speak. The parallels you speak of are the birth and resurrection stories of Osiris/Mithras, however we have no witness testamony accredited to particular individuals for those as opposed to Christ. There are many "Dying" gods but none of them contain the wisdom of Jesus Christ.

edit on 25-7-2012 by NihilistSanta because: fleshed things out a bit.

what you and others keep missing is that they took Christ, some of his most basic teachings (you can be sure not all of his teachings were left revealed to all of us) and then hijacked them and mixed them with the same Osiris/ Mithra cult they have always had...it is another way to trick the masses into doing witch-craft for the controllers...

have you ever really understood what Egyptian cults were based off of? it is Witch-craft...they are largely a bondage and bloodletting cult...prayers were literally performed by binding slaves, or little clay figurines of them, and then killing them in order to make your prayer come true...

that blood letting/shedding is also the same concept that is celebrated in sacrifices, the cross, and the communion...and the act of kneeling in prayer is a commemoration of bondage...

the words religion and precari (the word we get prayer from, the root for precarious) have ominous connotations in the latin...re-ligion gives a clear picture of bondage, and precari gives a picture of a person begging for their life...since when is that not an accurate picture of evil? even the commonly accepted form of prayer is a commemoration of bondage...we kneel and clasp our hands together as if they were bound...(well i do not any more, but i used to)

im telling you...they have hijacked Jesus, put his face on an ancient bloodletting and bondage and death cult, and then tricked us all into performing their rites of witch-craft every time we participate in their services...this is why they did not stop the reformation, but figured out how to slowly control it...and why they tolerated the groups that still performed the liturgy and ceremonies they established from the beginning of Christianity...The Council of Nicaea was a hostile takeover...not a victory of the faith...

Originally posted by NihilistSanta

Originally posted by studythem1
reply to post by NihilistSanta

 

the only people that care about genealogy, are the stuck up royals of every nation...and then they act like we should care about it too or we are less than human...because they have to prove something...but you know what? i dont have to prove anything...all i have to be is faithful to the creator, and honest, and genuine, and true to who i am...that is it...and eventually i have to die unless there is some miracle that i dont die...but that is it!

sure its cool to know where you came from...but in the end is it really even important? most people do not know where they are right now, let alone where they are going, so why worry about something they cannot control?

why must Christians always try and argue with ad hominim tactics?

or why must you attack they guy since you dont like what he said? he does not have to prove anything here about himself...he has already done the research to come to the conclusions he has about the bible long ago...truth trumps being forced any way...

Ok so its ad hominim to point out contradictions in your logic or for you to prove the validity of your claims?
No one is attacking or forcing anyone to do anything but you cant just call something an ad hominim attack when you dont have a rebuttal for it. He made a claim about autheticity then challenged people to prove the genealogies. His view is flawed because his method of proof he can not apply to his own genealogy so I was invalidating his arguement. The bible has a genealogy and the burden of proof is on him to back up his claim that the bibles genealogy is inaccurate.

but the burden of proof was not on him to prove his own genealogy...and in order to prove anything, you have to compile that proof...which can take ages...but in this fast food age i understand why the average christian wants a push button answer or a link to absolve them of the responsibility of actually pouring over tons of info...they would rather have all the evidence handed to them in a nice neat little package so they can parrot it over and over without checking the validity themselves...

you know what they say about those bearing gifts right? ie...the Trojan horse...beware...

taking anything for granted does not prove an argument either...

Originally posted by Elsha
reply to post by studythem1

 

no Christians don't follow the Masoretic text because they are in awe of the Jews. They follow it because it has been historically very well preserved. That's just a simple FACT of this life we share.

i disagree...put the both side by side and you see very obviously the Samaritan one is better preserved...they did not all have to suffer exile the same way Israel did...many of then still lived in the region and preserved the same torah they had before the invasion and destruction of Jerusalem...the grammar is better, and the text is more accurate...what is called the Masoretic text is sloppy...probably the worst copy of the original in existence...and i already posted a link to that way back...

makes one wonder why they would choose the worst possible copies of documents to support their case file of evidence...

Originally posted by MamaJ

Originally posted by studythem1
reply to post by NihilistSanta

 

yes fear does motivate many, but if we listen, then we find we do not have to fear...

instead now i only study to find the truth...regardless of what that means...even if it means finding the errors in the bible...that does not lessen the power of the creator, it only strengthens my heart and gives me wisdom to see what others are afraid to look at...

instead of holding a book sacred, or a person, i hold the creator sacred, and i take my role and my actions seriously with respect to how it effects others...

i do not intend to plant doubt or shake anyone's faith...if their faith is not sound, then it will be shaken by anything...but if it is strong, then whatever insight i can share will only bolster their faith...

as long as i keep the creator up front, and continue to point to the creator...i am doing what i am supposed to do...the creator knows my heart...

what we can do, and this i assure you is scriptural...is to rebuke evil...we have the power to resist it, and also to tell it to leave...whatever form it takes...

"where ever two or more are gathered...if you ask the father anything in my name, it shall be done..." that is truth...that is powerful...

You my friend sound as if your journey and walk with God has lead you and I on pretty much the same path.

For me, it feels liberating to know that we have seeked beyond the words of the Bible to come as close to God as we can. No one should be downed or ridiculed for their differences but as we see in this thread, its the case.

Its not something the every sunday church goer experiences! And its not something they understand.... How can anyone step outside the box and look for God? Because to some He is everywhere!

Your typical Christian places them selves upon a pedestal above you and quizzes your inner souls love for the creator. How dare you look outside this box!? Fear, fear, and more fear. Thats not what Jesus was about.... At all! They portray them self as being saved, while trying to save everyone else. Focusing on ones self is hard enough.... Lol.... Finding God for ones self and questioning is our right. We dont want to be fooled into believing someone elses words.... We want the true words.... We want more! We want all of God!

If each of us placed our self on the same pedestal as our brother and sister there would be more love and peace in the world. Arguing over differences of said journey is silly and it causes wars.

Back in the days of Jesus and prior, this was the case, just as it is today! Its just so sad.

I just really wanted to say that I read all of your posts and I respect the journey you have taken upon yourself.

Jesus walks with you, no doubt! Your words prove this! The word in the bible does not say, " seek the bible and you will find me". It says, " seek and ye shall find". Seeking outside the box takes courage and commitment. You are not containing our creator and for that, im sure He is greatful!

thanks for the kind words...i just added you to the friends list...

i know what you were trying to say...the golden rule...

there have always been times when great men have been able to share their wisdom with others and the people around them changed for the better, but as always...those that do not understand, or seek to exploit this, use it to destroy instead of learn from it...

reply to post by studythem1


All I can say, Studythem1, is that it's clear to me that you're more willing to believe in ET's than fallen angels and some unknown Creator versus the God or Jesus of the Bible, even though you claim you've been studying the Bible for the last 12 years? What can I say? The message wasn't meant for everyone, just like the Bible says. "He who has ears to hear, let him hear." Now I get why it's so confusing and secretive to you.

When my dad was in ministry school he had to learn about all religions, not everyone does. The baptist preacher only learns the baptist teachings, but this wasnt the case for my dad, a methodist.

Of course when he learned all about Enuma Elis he compared just as he was asked to and told me the first day his professor told him to " forget everything you have been taught and read.... Some will not make it past this first day and I want to first tell you, hell isnt real! " a lady was immediately taken out by security as she became enraged! Obviously throughout there were others who left... Makes you wonder!

He obtained a PHD from Vanderbilt and retired as a school teacher because the ministry of lying was not his style, so he says.

Many preachers however do not know the history of the bible at all! Its a pay check for them.... Period.

After being in church, working in the church, my step son dies. My preacher whom I looked to for comfort told me heaven is a mystery. That was not comforting and I began my journey that day... One that I will be on the rest of my days.

There are a lot of ancient texts that didnt make the final cut with the word of God for one reason or another. Either to keep with the theme, for control purposes,or what have you.... It just didnt make the cut.

Now..... IF someone is interested in reading the said texts that didnt make the cut and puts pieces of the puzzle together then why in the world would they be looked down upon bu the christian? The one who supposedly follows christ, yet will judge you to the the end of the earth for looking outside the box for God? Its absurd really.

Im not taking away anything from the Bible.... Im only saying that there is so much we still have yet to uncover in regards to ancient texts. There are many, many books that one can read that pertains to the stories in the bible and stories you can read that... Again... Didnt make the cut.

The first creation story depicts a wife that is not eve. Lilith then becomes a devil that eats kids. Lol really?

Information has been passed down and perverted because man is just that.... Perverted with lies.

I can have though the holy spirit show me whats from God and what isnt whether I read the Bible or another text that didnt make the cut. Its that simple. The holy spirit trumps the bible..... Or any book for that matter.

Whats important is not all the nit pickin details, but, there is a God, there is a holy spirit and there is christ! This is something that when addressed the christian should feel at ease, but they dont. Lol

Why is this? Because for one christian you have to say out loud and confess that jesus was the son of god, he died on the cross for our sins, and rose the third day. If you say this and believe you will go to heaven. If you dont then you go to hell! Lol like, they are the judge of your soul....

Then we have the christian that says if you dont believe the bible word for word you are going to hell! Ha... Again, the authority the christian has is arrogant to say the least!

Then we have the christian that says if you dance, its a sin and you will go to hell. Geee thanks!

Then of course there is the christian that says, if you dont get baptized so you are reborn into the spirit of christ you will be damned to hell. Well, thank God Ive been baptized twice! My kids came home from church one day with a friend and told me they fear hell, can the get baptized so they are sure to go to heaven? Ha! Guess what church that was? You guessed it! Baptist!

So we have many denominations saying their way is the only way. Which do you choose as all are taken from the Bible?

As a child, this becomes confusing. So... When I was a kid, i seeked without limits and here I am today. Here I am speaking all about love, god, and christ, yet the christian still feels the need to " save me".

Makes NO SENSE, but its comical!

reply to post by MamaJ

Brilliant, MamaJ!! BRAVO!! Lighter in the air!
Thank you for that post.

APPLAUSE (in the form of a little blue star)

~wild

reply to post by studythem1

what is this the Spanish inquisition?

Erm, yes, it is.

studythem1, I'm so glad you have joined ATS. I was reading from the bottom up, and starring you as I go along. Just wanted you to know I'm with ya, 100%....

i believe that the creators messengers (angels for lack of a better label) have since then attempted to set what was wrong, back right...but they cannot interfere too much...they must honor our free will...that is why they dont just spill the beans and wave a magic wand...we have to be involved...we have to choose, we have to resist evil...the kingdom of the creator, is not a dictatorship...where everything is going to be promised for us...and all we have to do is slave away...every one of us has got to be involved/engaged in it...but its still our choice...

Indeed.

I have added you and MamaJ to my friends list.

Namaste!

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by MamaJ

 

Brilliant, MamaJ!! BRAVO!! Lighter in the air!
Thank you for that post.

APPLAUSE (in the form of a little blue star)

~wild

Hahaha... Thanks! I do try and spread Light whenever I can.

The light Jesus brought to the world was one that over shadows the darkness. Whenever there is darkness there is light! He is always around!

People either look for the light or they dont. When looking into the light your eyes become very sensitive to what the light reveals.

Perception is everything!

1 Timothy 4

11 These things command and teach.

12 Let no man despise thy youth; but be thou an example of the believers, in word, in conversation, in charity, in spirit, in faith, in purity.

13 Till I come, give attendance to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine.

14 Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery.

15 Meditate upon these things; give thyself wholly to them; that thy profiting may appear to all.

16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

reply to post by wildtimes


What am I, chopped liver?

Seriously, more or less everything you, Wild, say in particular, and a few others on this thread, I completely agree with.

I just have three problems with Christianity:

1. They think their way is the only way, and only the Constitution prevents them from physically forcing us to convert.

2. Their God is a bloodthirsty ***hole, but they're still willing to sell their souls and integrity for the sake of eternal life and a religion that's purely impractical and useless in regards to what we need in this age.

3. They are unwilling to fight for the world. They will just lay down and watch it burn.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


1 John 2:15-17

15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

reply to post by Deetermined

17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

And they told me eternal servitude was not required!

So, forever serve the guy who made a world he KNEW was gonna end up destroyed, but still but over 4 billion people on it, f*** with them a little, toss a few volcanoes and earthquakes and tornadoes in the mix, then wipe away the whole thing and decide "You're going to heaven because you were nice to me, but the rest of you are thoroughly screwed because I don't like how your nose turned out. Y'know even though I gave it to you." And you KNOW he isn't gonna change once you get to heaven...

It's Rumpelstiltskin all over again.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

What am I, chopped liver?

Seriously, more or less everything you, Wild, say in particular, and a few others on this thread, I completely agree with.

Thanks, then AfterInfinity. You're friended as well. You say so little, it's hard for me to know what your opinions are. You ask valid questions, and those stars are from me.

Kind of a rough audience lately, this new wave that has arrived. Maybe it's the heat (physical and intellectual). I woke up with one of Sarah McLachlan's songs in my head: "World on Fire."



Lyrics:

Hearts are worn in these dark ages
You're not alone in this story's pages
Night has fallen amongst the living and the dying
And I try to hold it in, yeah I try to hold it in

[Chorus]
The world's on fire and
It's more than I can handle
I tap into the water
(I try to bring my share)
I try to bring more
More than I can handle
(Bring it to the table)
Bring what I am able

I watch the heavens but I find no calling
Something I can do to change what's coming
Stay close to me while the sky is falling
Don't wanna be left alone, don't wanna be alone

[Chorus]

Hearts break, hearts mend
Love still hurts
Visions clash, planes crash
Still there's talk of
Saving souls, still the cold
Is closing in on us

We part the veil on our killing sun
Stray from the straight line on this short run
The more we take, the less we become
The fortune of one man means less for some
[Chorusx2]

Heartbreaking.
(Edit to change the lyrics to what I hear when I listen to the song..I have the entire album memorized, after 100s of listens. Lyrics vary at different online sources.)

reply to post by wildtimes


That song is almost exactly what I've been feeling lately.

Most of all, the not wanting to be alone part. I don't want to be left alone. Friends are all I have in this life. And that's all I want. Friends and fun. Happiness.

To be sure, I don't rely on religion to have these things. Perhaps providence plays a part, but I have done my own part as well.

reply to post by wildtimes


That song is almost exactly what I've been feeling lately.

Most of all, the not wanting to be alone part. I don't want to be left alone. Friends are all I have in this life. And that's all I want. Friends and fun. Happiness.

To be sure, I don't rely on religion to have these things. Perhaps providence plays a part, but I have done my own part as well.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


Yeah, I've been feeling that way for about 10 years. Sad.
Did you watch the video? Not your typical music vid. Powerful visual to back up the sentiment. I urge everyone to watch it, and think about it.

Sarah is one of the heroes. She's my role model, if I choose from anyone I know of living today. I'm sure there are others, many, many silent heroes. And of course, many famous ones, too. Thank heaven for them.

reply to post by studythem1

throwing out exaggerated numbers does not lend credibility to Paul...it only makes him seem like more of an opportunist...

He was an opportunist, an ambitious, political man. Glad you pointed that out, it keeps getting buried in the boards when mentioned by those of us who think so.