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Is Jesus the only way to God?

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posted on Jul, 26 2012 @ 07:46 AM
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reply to post by studythem1
 


If I post Bible quotes it's because the words stand on their own without any explanation.

It appears as though anytime a Christian gives any kind of explanation on here that we're all accused of being arrogant and/or judgmental, so what's the point?

Better to just read the scriptures for yourselves and make your own determinations from them.

As for debating on ATS, we're not here to convert you, for we know better. Do you really think that anytime someone gives an explanation to you that it's meant for you and only you? No. It's meant to counter anything you say for anyone/everyone else who might be reading it. That's all. That's what ATS is all about!




posted on Jul, 26 2012 @ 06:11 PM
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Originally posted by Deetermined
No, what you said was that it made more sense that aliens/ET's made humans over the story of God having done it.

What amuses me is all of the people who claim they believe in Jesus, yet don't want to believe everything the Bible has to say about him and the only text in which he is quoted.

What amuses me even more is that you're capable of acknowledging some kind of Creator, but you don't think He's capable of preserving words in the Bible. It amazes me how many limitations people throw on God.

All I did was explain why you don't believe in every word of the Bible and why you don't understand it. I think it's quite clear.
edit on 26-7-2012 by Deetermined because: (no reason given)


the reasons i believe that someone tampered with us, and made us from something that is natural into something that is a hybrid, is because there are too many anomalies in human DNA to explain it away...why do we only use 10% of our brain? why do we have over 4000 defects resident in our DNA that only need the right trigger to manifest these defects? why do we have fused chromosomes? and why do we have less chromosomes than species similar to us in every way (including similar blood, skin, etc) except intelligence? it is obvious that these anomalies point to someone tampering with our genes and putting us at a huge disadvantage...to hold us back, to keep us less intelligent than they are...to make our offspring less likely to survive or advance...we are far from perfect, and even if we were not tampered with, we would still be at a disadvantage because of the relation of this planet to the sun, and the unique conditions here...our basic design was not made for this earth...it is better suited for space travel...and i would go into more detail about that but its not for this thread...

the creator would not force the preservation of a text written by man because it is against the law of free will to do so...the creator will not break the laws that the creator set into motion...but humans will, and those that have tampered with us will, because they have gone against that law and the laws of nature...some do this in ignorance and and others do this knowing full well what they are doing...

Edit: also, Jesus was quoted in many more books than what is accepted as the canon texts of the bible...but they got rejected...as i said before, some texts were rejected for sound common sense reasons, and some were rejected because they did not fit the overall theme that Constantine was trying to maintain in his version of the bible...

you think i do not understand the bible, you think i am confused...but i am not and am less confused the more i study and discover...i dont believe every word because there are some words that are not truth...plain and simple...that goes for the bible, but it also goes for anything...truth knows truth...but one who knows the truth and has been lied to knows how to spot a lie immediately...the marks are all there...we were never admonished to have blind faith in the lies of man, or anyone else, but we were admonished to ask the spirit for guidance...and that guidance will always reveal the truth...that was the provision that was made to help us find what is true...and also the provision made to preserve those words that were the truth...because the spirit does not violate free will...

i would rather know the truth than stand by a lie...even if it means that i find out what i thought was true, was not...
edit on 26-7-2012 by studythem1 because: more



posted on Jul, 26 2012 @ 06:28 PM
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Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by studythem1
 


If I post Bible quotes it's because the words stand on their own without any explanation.

It appears as though anytime a Christian gives any kind of explanation on here that we're all accused of being arrogant and/or judgmental, so what's the point?

Better to just read the scriptures for yourselves and make your own determinations from them.

As for debating on ATS, we're not here to convert you, for we know better. Do you really think that anytime someone gives an explanation to you that it's meant for you and only you? No. It's meant to counter anything you say for anyone/everyone else who might be reading it. That's all. That's what ATS is all about!


So, it is all about converting others to your beliefs. Recruiting, so to speak.

Otherwise, most are very happy to practice their religion in the home or down at the church without the need to stand in the street corners and recruit.

ATS is the version of church missions to recruit from preaching on street corners.



posted on Jul, 26 2012 @ 06:32 PM
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reply to post by Deetermined
 


if the words stand on there own then why would we need people to explain them? why need a pastor, or a priest, or several volumes of explanation in books on doctrine? why would we need people to tell us that if we think the words mean something else it is heresy?

apparently all the words of the bible, do not stand on their own...or they would have, and the council of Nicaea would have never happened...and Constantine would have never felt the need to tailor make his own religion out of the words of Jesus, or make Jesus words say something else than what Jesus intended...or say that doctrines Jesus never taught were about him...and then Constantine would have never had to force it on everyone in the known world of the day...including and up to torturing and killing people who did not fall in line lock step...(sound familiar?)

which once again is a violation of the law of free will...

why did the creator allow this? free will...everything is allowed, but not everything is beneficial...

but since there is free will this is our cue to stand against evil...even if it is only revealing the truth...

Revelation, the Apocalypse, is not about doom and gloom, as the editors would have us believe...but it is about the truth being revealed...Apocalypse means unveiling...but the lie tells us this word means destruction...it has become synonymous with destruction or the end of the world...

Apocalypse...unveiling...it is happening now...for many... the veil has been lifted for some, but others would rather walk around blindfolded in ignorance...but once again we have free will...
edit on 26-7-2012 by studythem1 because: spelling



posted on Jul, 26 2012 @ 06:33 PM
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reply to post by Deetermined
 



If I post Bible quotes it's because the words stand on their own without any explanation.


On the contrary, many of your quotes are questionable. Not for their source, but for their justification.


It appears as though anytime a Christian gives any kind of explanation on here that we're all accused of being arrogant and/or judgmental, so what's the point?


That's because either you label something you don't understand, or you label something BECAUSE you don't understand.


As for debating on ATS, we're not here to convert you, for we know better. Do you really think that anytime someone gives an explanation to you that it's meant for you and only you? No. It's meant to counter anything you say for anyone/everyone else who might be reading it. That's all. That's what ATS is all about!


I'm not entirely sure you've convinced anyone...
edit on 26-7-2012 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 26 2012 @ 06:59 PM
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Originally posted by studythem1

but we cannot play their game and do it...we cannot be bound by their religions...

this is what Jesus meant by putting new wine in old wine-skins...but yet people try to do it time and again, and in the end the old wine-skins fail...

Jesus followers understood this, but later those that claimed to follow Jesus (like Paul and Constantine) did just that...put the new wine in the old wine-skins, by placing the spiritual lessons he tried to teach us, into the old corrupt occult...the old religion, the old bondage...it never works...
edit on 26-7-2012 by studythem1 because: more explanation


Hello StudyThem,

Pleased to meet you!

I do agree, in large part, to your views on not getting stuck in the old mold, which is what clearly has been done again and again. Religion is a formula empowered by various human weaknesses.

The world would be better off holding meetings around ancient stone monuments that speak to nature, than any of the games of the Abraham derived religions. Stewardship and benevolence topics, and how to live in each others care as the discussion themes for fellowship.

We don't need a god, nor a king, or age old rigged beliefs that need any form of faith, other than the community of man being our goal. It can happen on the Internet, here on ATS, and just speak to the issues of science and intelligence.

The world doesn't need a bunch of scare mongers telling unless you get dunked you go to hell, or unless you do this and that, the devil is gonna get ya. We don't need utter nonsense. Just those that have clear and rational thinking will do just fine, as in the times of Thomas Jefferson.

This god thing seems to prey on a human weakness with serotonin, and the ancient Pinal Gland, and appears to feed off of depression in individauls and grab them at their weakest moments in life and keep them mentally chained to the addictions of getting deeper attached to their co-dependence type game.

A real man doesn't need all these emotional attachments to be a good citizen or become a fine steward of the environment, or always make systems have benevolence toward others. If we had no religion at all, and were just the community of humanity, that should be enough.


The issues of god crept up in Sumeria, over faked up Nephellium, fallen ones, and their greed for gold, and to have others serve them. Slavery yes, and the churches appear not very keen to break that tradition, nor tell the simple truths.



posted on Jul, 26 2012 @ 07:00 PM
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reply to post by MagnumOpus
 


So where did the Nephilim come from? Guess I better ask Autowrench...



posted on Jul, 26 2012 @ 07:52 PM
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Originally posted by MagnumOpus

Hello StudyThem,

Pleased to meet you!

I do agree, in large part, to your views on not getting stuck in the old mold, which is what clearly has been done again and again. Religion is a formula empowered by various human weaknesses.

The world would be better off holding meetings around ancient stone monuments that speak to nature, than any of the games of the Abraham derived religions. Stewardship and benevolence topics, and how to live in each others care as the discussion themes for fellowship.

We don't need a god, nor a king, or age old rigged beliefs that need any form of faith, other than the community of man being our goal. It can happen on the Internet, here on ATS, and just speak to the issues of science and intelligence.

The world doesn't need a bunch of scare mongers telling unless you get dunked you go to hell, or unless you do this and that, the devil is gonna get ya. We don't need utter nonsense. Just those that have clear and rational thinking will do just fine, as in the times of Thomas Jefferson.

This god thing seems to prey on a human weakness with serotonin, and the ancient Pinal Gland, and appears to feed off of depression in individauls and grab them at their weakest moments in life and keep them mentally chained to the addictions of getting deeper attached to their co-dependence type game.

A real man doesn't need all these emotional attachments to be a good citizen or become a fine steward of the environment, or always make systems have benevolence toward others. If we had no religion at all, and were just the community of humanity, that should be enough.


The issues of god crept up in Sumeria, over faked up Nephellium, fallen ones, and their greed for gold, and to have others serve them. Slavery yes, and the churches appear not very keen to break that tradition, nor tell the simple truths.





pleased to meet you as well! Magnum...

thanks for your insight...

i have often wondered if these beings are still feeding off of our emotions, and that by people directing them at a false image of a god... somehow it is a fuel for them? as long as they can divert praises away from where they really belong, and make them float out in oblivion, then they can "harvest" them...for lack of a better word...

i know it sounds far fetched, but if there was such an evil, i would not be surprised...

i also often wonder if the contracts they force people into by way of persuasion, guilt, and confession of loyalty to a god, that this is their way of claiming our souls for some sort of energy source? what if they are really harvesting souls to power their "magic"

if they are in another dimension, then that may not be as far fetched as it seems...

so not only are evil beings thirsty for blood, and for gold...but if what i just said were actually true, they could also be feeding off of misdirected praise, and stealing souls for some perverse purpose...

i know its a long shot, but your post made me think of the remote possibility...

about whether or not i believe we should have religion or worship a creator...i believe worship is exactly what you described...being a community, extending benevolence and being good stewards of the earth...raising families, being honest and true...living life...

but what has happened is we are in an unnatural arrangement, where we live in cities, crammed in less than healthy proximity, unable to fend for ourselves (because of government), unable to feed ourselves (because of convenience), and unable to focus on what really matters (because of glossed over slavery)...

and because of this arrangement we are in, we find ourselves trapped in an unnatural hierarchy, over and over again...it is far too complex and inefficient...it is like a Rube Goldberg invention...ridiculous and impractical...

if we would all spread out some and forsake the evil systems we live under...they would collapse and we would have to learn how to really live all over again, but it would be better for the earth, and better for us...there is plenty of room in the world, just not in the cities...

the kind of civilization we live in is not healthy...but we dont have to destroy it, we just have to turn away from it...thing is "they" will never willingly let us do that...they want control, and religion truly is the opiate of the people...opiates keep people numb, and unaware of what is going on around them...

ever see a heroine addict passed out but still standing up? eyes closed almost falling over, but weebles dont fall down? its called the junkie lean...well... thats how religion has people...
edit on 26-7-2012 by studythem1 because: spelling



posted on Jul, 26 2012 @ 09:21 PM
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Jesus said to work on Sunday, so I am going to work on Sunday.

That is deep. Sunday, the American sabbath, is known to rest on. Jesus said he can work. What is this society? We can work - miracles.



posted on Jul, 26 2012 @ 09:45 PM
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Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by MagnumOpus
 


So where did the Nephilim come from? Guess I better ask Autowrench...


based off of what we know from ancient texts, they were the offspring of human earth women and some other species similar to humans...

the book of Enoch goes into some detail about them and the customs of the ones who came down from the "heavens" and forced these women into matrimony...

the Sumerian texts tell us they were on what many believe is Mars...and were on hardship duty there, but there was a reason they were there...the hierarchy then knew what they were capable of and put them there so they would not pull anything on earth...they had already revolted once and were a danger to the experiment on earth of this new work force called humanity...

but, as all hardship duty goes, it gets lonely, and certain urges take over, and if someone is in prison, usually they are living in less than favorable conditions, and certain urges take them over...well, becuase of this and the rumor that one of the heirarchy was consorting witth earth women, they grew jealous and figured "why cant we too?" and decided they would figure out a way to get back to earth, kidnap whatever women they wanted to, and force them into marriage...they were basically terrorists at that point and they were appeased in order to keep them from revolting again...

so they had children with these earth women...and their customs were brutal...they ate their enemies, they taught their women all kinds of things that were brutal and disrespectful, and caused a lot of disruption among the earth...they had to be dealt with...

so eventually they were defeated, their leader was sent back to mars to die for treason, and everyone else was put to death (as many as they could find, but as always, genocide is never thorough)

as a result of some of the bad stewardship of the earth, there was a disruption in the normal cycles of the earth and one of the ice caps fractured...apparently they were able to tell this was going to annihilate the earth, but the leadership thought this was ok, since they saw the experiment of life on earth as a failure, so they kept it a secret and forbade anyone who knew of it to tell anyone else, lest the population get wind of it and panic...they wanted business as usual until the end was inevitable...

but (according to the Sumerian) Enki, who was the patriarch of Noah...felt a kinship with him and decided to warn him, and to save his precious experiments and all the creatures that were on the earth...this was at the request of his wife, because it really broke her heart that all of them would die...

but how could he do it? he was forbidden to on penalty of death to tell anyone...and all such rumors of impeding danger were quickly brushed under the rug and made fun of, and whoever said anything was executed...

so he decided to go to noahs dwelling, and speak through the wall, and told Noah to call him "reed hut"...he then gave him designs of a vessel that would save them from the flood and save all the creatures of the earth...

and the flood came...and people died...but as always even this was not enough to "cleanse the earth" and there were survivors other than Noah and his family...

this is why there were still Nephilim later on...and they were not really giants, but they were strong of stature...men of renown...hearty...and i think the evidence is clear they were Neanderthal...who mysteriously appeared out of nowhere and then because they "didn't make the cut"...they just as mysteriously disappeared...or rather were eliminated by genocide...

there is two opinions as to who the Igigi were (the sons of god who took wives of the daughters of men)...some say they were another faction of the Annunaki, and some say they were a race similar to the Greys, before the majority of them were harvested for DNA and turned into a kind of biological robot with no soul...well a third says they were demons or fallen angels...but anyway...hope that helps...

a side note...if anyone remembers buck rogers, the 80s tv show...there was a robot named twiki...who went "BEEDY BEEDY BEEDY"...i think that was sort of a silent tip of the hat to the Igigi...among other things...



posted on Jul, 26 2012 @ 09:48 PM
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reply to post by MamaJ
 


But you just judged me by accusing me of judging you and telling me its wrong to judge?



posted on Jul, 26 2012 @ 09:57 PM
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reply to post by greyer
 

Jesus said he can work.
God is exempt from the Sabbath law.
The debate back then was if God continued working into the seventh day before stopping to rest.
Jesus was answering the question that God did not create the Sabbath until he was done doing whatever he had to do.



posted on Jul, 26 2012 @ 10:00 PM
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Originally posted by studythem1

......

about whether or not i believe we should have religion or worship a creator...i believe worship is exactly what you described...being a community, extending benevolence and being good stewards of the earth...raising families, being honest and true...living life...

but what has happened is we are in an unnatural arrangement, where we live in cities, crammed in less than healthy proximity, unable to fend for ourselves (because of government), unable to feed ourselves (because of convenience), and unable to focus on what really matters (because of glossed over slavery)...

and because of this arrangement we are in, we find ourselves trapped in an unnatural hierarchy, over and over again...it is far too complex and inefficient...it is like a Rube Goldberg invention...ridiculous and impractical...

if we would all spread out some and forsake the evil systems we live under...they would collapse and we would have to learn how to really live all over again, but it would be better for the earth, and better for us...there is plenty of room in the world, just not in the cities...

the kind of civilization we live in is not healthy...but we dont have to destroy it, we just have to turn away from it...thing is "they" will never willingly let us do that...they want control, and religion truly is the opiate of the people...opiates keep people numb, and unaware of what is going on around them...

ever see a heroine addict passed out but still standing up? eyes closed almost falling over, but weebles dont fall down? its called the junkie lean...well... thats how religion has people...
edit on 26-7-2012 by studythem1 because: spelling


Hello StudyThem,

I think your title is what everyone needs to be doing to address the issues that we seem to have become dragged into. In terms of human history, it appears many were hunter gathers, as the American Indians. The lived in small communal villages and were self sufficient. Their gods were just the forces of nature.

Way back when the Nephellium became more interested in having larger work forces they became involved in the formulation of river culture cities with canals, irrigation, and towers called Ziggurats. Areas like Eridu and Ur were some of the first river cultures that had perhaps 5-10 thousand people in cities. This grew into other areas, like Babylon, and later Egypt, with towers and pyramid symbols. These days we are all cast into this same mold and most everything that used to be small and self supporting has been turned into corporatism methods being run by the titans of money.

So, all that system of Nephellium technology is the heart of the same system today, and the church still represents this inner core of the Nephelloum methods, but in place of gods and kings the power is the money usually held in corperate shelters and controlled by a few.

This appears why the dark ages used terms like lords and Serfs for those that owned and those that served. Antislavery was a slight fit, but the lords still have the money and call the short over Most Governments. Money talks in terms of elections and who the elected have to serve, and it generally isn't the citizens first.

The churches do keep everyone busy with false hopes for a new messiah and saying prayers because they all believe someone is going to come and fix things for them. There is no leadership that speaks for the people, as they seem to get shot as JFK and MLK.

Religion disrenfranchises people and the opiate of the masses is religion that doesn't teach that everyone has rights and everyone helps to make the world. The religion types promote wealth inequity, just as happened in the Eridu and Ur with the Fallen Ones. So, a select few control most of the money in the world and religion helps to keep those that might organize and win equality sitting on little church pews wringing their hands.

In Germany, in the lands of Martin Luther and others that were looking for better solutitions and challenging the churches, they discovered that the Essene and Jesus mother and father lived a communal life that was basically socialism. The set off the Karl Marx socialism themes and outbreaks against European issues like Czars. Soon is turned in the Central European Bankers with Hitler's resistance to the cast leadership of the rich.

In England, the Royals were the bloodline from the throne of David, and this leads clear back to the leadership of Ur, where Abraham was born, and Eridu. Jesus had the same linage, and tried to change the system also. The system was so powerful that it even abducted his name and image and rewrote what he stood for.

The battle still goes on today with what to do to have wealth equity and get out of the system where wealth elects the politicians, which serves the industry and basically the same type city worker systems set up at Ur and Eridu. So, it appears with the population as large as it is in the world today we are stuck in that mold, and it gets down to how to share the wealth, everyone has a roof, everyone food, everyone a meaninful job, and work in those factors of benevolence and stewardship into the "BORG" system for a genetically mutated society from the effects of industrial pollitants and industrial disease.

Part of what the exploiter class discovered was that from Germany and Russia, used to quel prisoner camps, and that was fluoride. Fluoride damages resistance and will, and damages the serotonin production which promotes depression and dependence on things like churches. It is now a vicious circle, and some do seek to break out of this system that assimates them and does not really and truly represent them due to the evils of money controlled in the corperate shelter systems that is controlled by the few.

The churches certainly know how the systems for gods and Nephellium began in the regions of Eridu and Ur, and even the Pope wanted to go pray at the City of Ur, but Soddam Housein could not guarantee his safety in Iraq. Hitler tried to break the mold with a bigger system and toss out the ruling class, but ended up inventing corportism that made the situation for freedom worse.

The churches don't teach the real religion models such as the area that Jesus was born was the Mt. Carmel area that was a communal socialist area, instead all one hears is about Jerusalem and the big temple. And even though the big temple burned down, the money power of Rome dipped Jesus into the model for Nimrod and the old system of god from the same Ur and Eridu theme.

I suppose, when this sudden epihany strikes everyone about these real histories they see the Beast that controls and lords over man, and find great revelations that these were never really issues of true god, just an age old formula for the oppression and exploitation of man. Such is the history that the organized churches keep from all the world as the solicit more people to become seduced into belief in gods, kings, and others running the world while they sit quietly praying for a Messiah.

Lots of people see through this old formula for control that the churches were designed to promote, and they see the death that religion false teachings deal out over who has the money power. Many of the Jewish changed to secular humanists and dumped the old religion ritual that kept everyone occupied from seeing reality. Most of the Chrisitans in the US are so blinded by trying to play ritual and I am going to become more perfect that anyone else so I deserve more games. The US preachers see the money games and get fat and wealthy dealing out the faked up drama of bible narratives and the passion over a faked up theme for Jesus being god.

John, in his old wise age on Patmos, predicted that as society grew they would find out they have been had and used and abused, and the rapture of truth will hit the smartest in the face and the many dumb ones with still be banging their pagan drums of I need by Daddy god to take care of me.

But we all know the co-dependence on daddy the churches promote and the absolute submission to authority and sitting around all disenfranchised from the nature that the orginal creator intended for everyone to experience and learn equally.

The thrid world war appears the only way to break the grip of the greed for control over man, which is one in the same as that from Ur and Eridu, but evolved a bit for today. The Vatican and the Queen of the UK all have major wealth and major investment in war, which is sure to come.

Thus, we find that Jesus isn't really a way to god because he spent too much time pointing to the Creator god called Abba or Daddy, which is one of the gods of Anu's panteon in Sumeria, which Enoch speaks to and the Sumerian tablets speak with adequate detail.

Jesus isn't really the way to god, as his was just a variation of Yahweh, who was a fake as Nimrod playing god.

The only creation comes way back and from a unknown force of nature, and it isn't a Creator god that engaged in breeding experiments to mix up the DNA of man with the Nephellium.


edit on 26-7-2012 by MagnumOpus because: The Two Creations, the fake god, and the force of intelligent design that has no real way to discribe it



posted on Jul, 26 2012 @ 10:09 PM
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reply to post by network dude
 


Point to which words have been changed in the New Testament
Gods word has remained the same, you do not know who Jesus really is. If he was just a man then his sacrifice wouldnt have been suffecient to pay for our sins. I agree religion causes alot of harm but Christianity is based on the Bible not on a church or pope. The Bible has not been corrupted as you claim, there are thousends of manuscripts to back it up. Having a personal relationship with jesus and knowing him is the only way to heaven. Of you die without accepting the free gift of eternal life you will go to hell and spend eternity in tormentThjs is what Jesus preached. The gospel offends those with a scorned conscience.
edit on 26-7-2012 by RevelationGeneration because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 26 2012 @ 10:15 PM
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reply to post by greyer
 


Saturday and sunday... the two religious days of rest in the world we know...

why those two days?

well...Saturday was originally dedicated to Saturn, or the other equivalents of Saturn throughout the various pantheon and mythologies...

Saturn was the veiled god...the god of blood sacrifices, who demanded blood for atonement (munera)...he was also the equivalent of Cronus, who ate his own children...his consorts were veiwed as extensions of himself and bore the attributes of wealth, abundance, resources and destruction, dissolution, loosening...his festival the Saturnalia, was also in December for 10 days starting on the 25th...

in other mythologies he was called El...Enlil...and more that i cannot remember...

Sunday is obviously dedicated to the Sun god Appolo...or RA or any of the other multitude of deities parallel...

but for simplicities sake, we will focus on Appolo and his attributes...recognized as a god of light and the sun, truth and prophecy, healing, plague, music, poetry, and more, he was the son of Zeus and Leto...and apparently his festivals were many, but some of the most significant occurred during December...

what is interesting is, that both of these gods were important on the two sabbath days of Judeo-Christian tradition...so there was not that far of a leap to make for the roman empire to accept the two faiths...and it was part of the reason that Constantine could easily reconcile Christianity with the older Roman rituals...

also of note is this...




The apparent plural form ’Ēlîm or ’Ēlim 'gods' occurs only four times in the Tanakh. Psalm 29, understood as an enthronement psalm, begins: A Psalm of David. Ascribe to Yahweh, sons of gods (bênê ’Ēlîm), Ascribe to Yahweh, glory and strength Psalm 89:6 (verse 7 in Hebrew) has: For who in the skies compares to Yahweh, who can be likened to Yahweh among the sons of gods (bênê ’Ēlîm). Traditionally bênê ’ēlîm has been interpreted as 'sons of the mighty', 'mighty ones', for, indeed ’ēl can mean 'mighty', though such use may be metaphorical (compare the English expression God-awful). It is possible also that the expression ’ēlîm in both places descends from an archaic stock phrase in which ’lm was a singular form with the m-enclitic and therefore to be translated as 'sons of Ēl'. The m-enclitic appears elsewhere in the Tanakh and in other Semitic languages. Its meaning is unknown, possibly simply emphasis. It appears in similar contexts in Ugaritic texts where the expression bn ’il alternates with bn ’ilm, but both must mean 'sons of Ēl'. That phrase with m-enclitic also appears in Phoenician inscriptions as late as the 5th century BCE. One of the other two occurrences in the Tanakh is in the "Song of Moses", Exodus 15:11a: Who is like you among the gods (’ēlim), Yahweh? The final occurrence is in Daniel 11:36: And the king will do according to his pleasure; and he will exalt himself and magnify himself over every god (’ēl), and against the God of gods (’ēl ’ēlîm) he will speak outrageous things, and will prosper until the indignation is accomplished: for that which is decided will be done. There are a few cases in the Tanakh where some think ’ēl referring to the great god Ēl is not equated with Yahweh. One is in Ezekiel 28:2, in the taunt against a man who claims to be divine, in this instance, the leader of Tyre: Son of man, say to the prince of Tyre: "Thus says the Lord Yahweh: 'Because your heart is proud and you have said: "I am ’ēl (God), in the seat of ’elōhîm (God or gods), I am enthroned in the middle of the seas." Yet you are man and not ’ēl even though you have made your heart like the heart of ’elōhîm ('God' or 'gods').'" Here ’ēl might refer to a generic god, or to a highest god, Ēl. When viewed as applying to the King of Tyre specifically, the king was probably not thinking of Yahweh. When viewed a general taunt against anyone making divine claims, it may or may not refer to Yahweh depending on the context. In Judges 9:46 we find ’Ēl Bêrît 'God of the Covenant', seemingly the same as the Ba‘al Bêrît 'Lord of the Covenant' whose worship has been condemned a few verses earlier. See Baal for a discussion of this passage. Psalm 82:1 says: ’elōhîm ('God') stands in the council of ’ēl he judges among the gods (elohim). This could mean that God, that is Yahweh, judges along with many other gods as one of the council of the high god Ēl. However it can also mean that God, that is Yahweh, stands in the Divine Council (generally known as the Council of Ēl), as Ēl judging among the other members of the Council. The following verses in which God condemns those whom he says were previously named gods (elohim) and sons of the Most High suggest God is here indeed Ēl judging the lesser gods. An archaic phrase appears in Isaiah 14:13, kôkkêbê ’ēl 'stars of God', referring to the circumpolar stars that never set, possibly especially to the seven stars of Ursa Major. The phrase also occurs in the Pyrgi Inscription as hkkbm ’l (preceded by the definite article h and followed by the m-enclitic). Two other apparent fossilized expressions are arzê-’ēl 'cedars of God' (generally translated something like 'mighty cedars', 'goodly cedars') in Psalm 80:10 (in Hebrew verse 11) and kêharrê-’ēl 'mountains of God' (generally translated something like 'great mountains', 'mighty mountains') in Psalm 36:7 (in Hebrew verse 6). For the reference in some texts of Deuteronomy 32:8 to seventy sons of God corresponding to the seventy sons of Ēl in the Ugaritic texts see ’Elyôn.



posted on Jul, 26 2012 @ 10:15 PM
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Oh wow... look what I stumbled into. Are you guys writing a book or something? So much to say about nothing.

Breath in, breath out. Life goes on.



posted on Jul, 26 2012 @ 10:37 PM
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Originally posted by openlocks
Oh wow... look what I stumbled into. Are you guys writing a book or something? So much to say about nothing.

Breath in, breath out. Life goes on.


Go watch your TV and sit on your hands. The rest of us will talk about life and experiences of old, and progress toward a new era of the kinder and gentler world. Even about Jesus not being exactly as advertised.

And especially about the vapidity of the faked idea of Christians that is promoted today.
edit on 26-7-2012 by MagnumOpus because: History goes on and the problems get addressed with the real history



posted on Jul, 26 2012 @ 10:39 PM
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Originally posted by RevelationGeneration
reply to post by network dude
 


Point to which words have been changed in the New Testament
Gods word has remained the same, you do not know who Jesus really is. If he was just a man then his sacrifice wouldnt have been suffecient to pay for our sins. I agree religion causes alot of harm but Christianity is based on the Bible not on a church or pope. The Bible has not been corrupted as you claim, there are thousends of manuscripts to back it up. Having a personal relationship with jesus and knowing him is the only way to heaven. Of you die without accepting the free gift of eternal life you will go to hell and spend eternity in tormentThjs is what Jesus preached. The gospel offends those with a scorned conscience.
edit on 26-7-2012 by RevelationGeneration because: (no reason given)


Mark 1:41...

the scribes changed one word and changed the whole meaning of the text because of it...but they translated from the Aramaic, which has two words that are so similar they can be mistaken for each other...but since we do not have the original text, there is no explanation, but it was changed...




Metzger (A Textual Commentary on the Greek New Testament) writes about this variant reading:

It is difficult to come to a firm decision concerning the original text. On the one hand, it is easy to see why orgistheis ("being angry") would have prompted over-scrupulous copyists to alter it to splagchnistheis ("being filled with compassion"), but not easy to account for the opposite change. On the other hand, a majority of the Committee was impressed by the following considerations. (1) The character of the external evidence in support of orgistheis is less impressive than the diversity and character of evidence that supports splagchnistheis. (2) At least two other passages in Mark, which represent Jesus as angry (3:5) or indignant (10:14), have not prompted over scrupulous copyists to make corrections. (3) It is possible that the reading orgistheis either (a) was suggested by embrimesamenos ["warn sternly"] of ver. 43, or (b) arose from confusion between similar words in Aramaic (compare Syriac ethraham, "he had pity," with ethra`am, "he was enraged"). [pp. 76-77]


and that is just one example...there are tons more, but we would have to then devote this thread to all the inconsistencies and contradictions that are apparent in the bible...and the bible did change...once they added the new testament...it also has changed between denominations and different sects of Jews...also the Ethiopian Christians still use the book of Enoch...so the bible has changed many times...even the translations vary...

in Zechariah one example is the translation of Joseph and Ephraim is changed to Israel and Judah in some versions... they are not synonymous, because the two names of Joseph and Ephraim specifically point to the Samaritans...who have traditionally said they descended from those people, and DNA proof has verified this...

Using the word Israel and Judah as a substitute for those two is inaccurate...any time you have men putting their spin on a text, it can change...

Edit: also jesus did not refer to hell the same way people think

in Matthew 5:21-22...gehenna, is the valley of hinnom, where children were sacrificed in the old days outside the walls of Jeruaslem...he is saying the act of arrogance is equally bad as child sacrifice...and that such a person is rubbish...trash...

also in Matthew 5:29-30...he is saying that if there is a diseased part of the body it is better to get rid of it than for the whole body to end up in the trash heap...it was figurative a metaphor...he certainly did not mean that we should pluck out our eyes or cut off body parts literally...

Matthew 10:28...he is referring to what destroys the soul and body...i can think of many instances where people destroy their own souls and bodies by their own actions...by use of drugs...by murdering another...and anything else that kills the soul...and they do not have to wait for eternity to do it...they can end up being human trash right now...

Luke 12:4-5... now we see who Jesus was talking about...the one who comes to steal kill and destroy...but why fear? We have not been given the spirit of fear right? something is not right here...

Matthew 23:15 Jesus got pretty emotional, not that i blame him cause the hypocrites were full of it, but here again, it is a metaphor for pieces of manure...garbage...trash...

Matthew 23:33...definitely talking about hell...but to who? the hypocrites...

that and Jesus talks about heaven 144 times...which overshadows hell (hades, tartarus, gehenna...etc) ...which was only mentioned 12 times if you dont take away any for parallel accounts in two of the gospels...

it seems to me there is one more point, that the so called followers of Jesus are not really following him at all...once again proved by how they talk more of hell than of heaven...

and just as a side note...the spirit in which many of these things were said was full of poison, which to me indicates that Jesus did not originate all of these quotes, no matter how we might like to attribute them all to Jesus...the voice is different...so unless he was possessed...(which i do not believe) not all the quotes were from him, they were added later...and funny how the original Aramaic was lost...and all they have are the Greek "translations"...so how can we be sure the words they used were actually in the context of the original?


edit on 26-7-2012 by studythem1 because: (no reason given)

edit on 26-7-2012 by studythem1 because: spelling and more

edit on 27-7-2012 by studythem1 because: spacing



posted on Jul, 26 2012 @ 11:16 PM
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Originally posted by studythem1

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by MagnumOpus
 


So where did the Nephilim come from? Guess I better ask Autowrench...


based off of what we know from ancient texts, they were the offspring of human earth women and some other species similar to humans...

the book of Enoch goes into some detail about them and the customs of the ones who came down from the "heavens" and forced these women into matrimony...

.....



StudyThem,

Very Good to see that you are up to speed in the Clan of Anu, the fallen ones, and the Sumerian Creator gods into breeding. I don't think AutoW could explain much better.

Even got into the Christians from Ethiopia like the Book of Enoch. Where these local Christians ask: what is that.

I think the fallen ones had a way point on Mars, but the home territory appeared to be one of the planets near the Orion Constellation.


With all the religion theme on gods and fallen ones, it is a easy point to make these gods were rather like a character on Star Trek, and hardly gods. Though the Earth primatives took that idea, and the theme carries on today, but that doesn't become a correct conclusion in today's times.


There are two Creations, one from Adam and the Anu god games, and the real one for the creation of the universe from some unknown intelligent force that nobody can discribe or make symbol for or even communicate with. Unless a planet has a soul, but I think not.



posted on Jul, 26 2012 @ 11:37 PM
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Originally posted by MagnumOpus
StudyThem,

Very Good to see that you are up to speed in the Clan of Anu, the fallen ones, and the Sumerian Creator gods into breeding. I don't think AutoW could explain much better.

Even got into the Christians from Ethiopia like the Book of Enoch. Where these local Christians ask: what is that.

I think the fallen ones had a way point on Mars, but the home territory appeared to be one of the planets near the Orion Constellation.


With all the religion theme on gods and fallen ones, it is a easy point to make these gods were rather like a character on Star Trek, and hardly gods. Though the Earth primatives took that idea, and the theme carries on today, but that doesn't become a correct conclusion in today's times.


There are two Creations, one from Adam and the Anu god games, and the real one for the creation of the universe from some unknown intelligent force that nobody can discribe or make symbol for or even communicate with. Unless a planet has a soul, but I think not.



are you familiar with the star-maps? every major monolith complex in the world, the pyramids of Giza, the Vatican, Washington DC, even Stonehenge, and the face on MARS... all point to the constellation Orion and ultimately the Pleiades...its a dirty little secret the elite have been hiding in their occult "religion"...and have even hidden in their addition of the doctrine of the trinity to Christianity...and in many more instances...

they have also hijacked the sacred mathematics, which were present before the elite existed...it is the mathematics whereby all the earth and the universe can be calculated...all these monoliths also use the same mathematics...its as if they think that by using the mathematics of the creator, they can twist it to their own purposes...everything they have made evil was once good...but now perverted...

many people think all the symbols of the occult are evil, but they have only been hijacked by the evil elite...it is like the wizard of oz using fear to control all in OZ...he is only a little man...behind the curtain, and the symbols that are used to help paint this evil picture are actually not evil at all, but point right back to the star-maps...telling us all where we came from...but the elite do not want us to know it, so they created a whole system of fear, and controlled opposition, to keep us bound by fear, and their occult games, so we perform their work for them, and remain enslaved, and perform their witch-craft, and remain bound...

www.thehiddenrecords.com...
edit on 26-7-2012 by studythem1 because: (no reason given)

edit on 26-7-2012 by studythem1 because: spelling



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