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An Honest Question For ATS Preachers

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posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 08:17 AM
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Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by solongandgoodnight
 



it may be important to note that this was not "biblical". they were corrupt. that doesn't mean that all christians follow this awful line of thinking.

Correct, it wasn't "Biblical", but at the time many of those vicitmized parishioners didn't KNOW THAT. And yes, you are correct that not all do. But all are equally subject to such corrupted interpretations, in particular those who follow what their leaders say without doing any homework (so to speak).

That's why "critical thinking" is so very important .... in making decisions. Sadly, it is true that not everyone has developed the capacity to do so, nor has the interest in learning to. It makes such a vital difference in quality of life!


That's why it's so vitally important to apply ACTS 17:11 in all cases. I realize the Catholics from the Dark Ages had a very tough time doing that, but today's landscape is quite different.




posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 09:13 AM
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reply to post by solongandgoodnight
 





it may be important to note that this was not "biblical". they were corrupt. that doesn't mean that all christians follow this awful line of thinking


Some people just don't get the difference between christianity and christendom. They think we all believe the same stuff because we came out of the R.C.C. but they forget that there was already a church established before the Holy Roman Empire. I for one do not run on anything created after the Council of Jerusalem because by the time the Council of Nicea came about the inmates were running the Asylum and Constantine was their Pope.
edit on 19-7-2012 by lonewolf19792000 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 09:19 AM
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reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


Not necessarily, I'd say by the time of Theodosius the first. Constantine was a new convert, he only legalized the religion. Theodosius was the one who wanted it the sanctioned official religion of the empire. The writings of the apostolic and ante-Nicaean fathers are quite doctrinally sound.



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 09:29 AM
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reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


Some people just don't get the difference between christianity and christendom.

I so hope you are not implying that I'm one of those "people" who don't get the "difference." I myself have said many, many times on these forums that what the man Jesus is said to have taught his followers about how to live -- in humility, kindness, peace, understanding -- to treat others the way you would like to be treated -- is the key. That is what I hold to.

There is not one single denomination that I have learned about that supports my personal understanding of the Divine Spirit within. But I know what it tells me, and it doesn't require anything but for me to be loving and to be a help to those in need. Over my lifetime I have done that -- not with money, because I have none -- but with compassion, respect, and dialogue, to partner with those in pain and help them discover how best to overcome their suffering.

I am a change agent. A social worker. And I have been since long, long before I was "granted" that "title" by an academic institution. That said, I refused to get a "license" to practice, because that would put on me too many restraints that don't make sense to me, like not bonding with clients, and cutting them off completely after working alongside them toward their own peace of mind.

How stupid is that? I found it impossible to work with people on a regular basis, in their homes, or in a private conversation, or a group setting if they chose (and those were youths who asked for a group, so I arranged one for them, and got the grant I wrote to do so)...and then WALK AWAY FROM THEM FOREVER when for whatever reason they had "graduated" -- for some of those people, I'd been bonded with them, and their BABIES for, say, a year and a half -- through their triumphs, their confusion, their moves and losses and fears, and when those babies turned 3 years old......I was forbidden to see them any longer. How much pain! How many tears, and years of missing them I've endured since then.

My heart aches even today to think of my little ones, who absolutely bonded with me, and who wept when I would leave, until they realized I'd be back. I was beloved by those children, and their parents, and I loved them back. Why should I allow some "Board of Regents of Behavioral Science Practitioners" or whatever tell me "no, you can't communicate with them once they've left your program. No, you can't go talk to them off the clock. No, you may not accept their gifts of gratitude that they crafted with their own hands for you specifically. No, you can't go to their christenings, or birthday parties, or to their home for celebrations of holidays of any kind at all."

Does that make sense to any of you? It doesn't to me. And you know what their reasons for imposing those brutal restrictions were cloaked in?

Wait for it.....

"it's unethical"



I kid you not. I told them to shove it, and left the "professional world," but did not stop working. And never will.

Peace
edit on 19-7-2012 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 09:38 AM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 


Because there isn't any Christian denominations that teach Pantheism.



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 09:44 AM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 





I so hope you are not implying that I'm one of those "people" who don't get the "difference." I myself have said many, many times on these forums that what the man Jesus is said to have taught his followers about how to live -- in humility, kindness, peace, understanding -- to treat others the way you would like to be treated -- is the key. That is what I hold to.


My point is that there are alot of people who cannot tell the difference between a christian and an antichristian, they lump everything in the same group and be done with it, which isn't right but they still do it. I wasn't implying anything about you, but you must have some guilt hidden somewhere to think i was because you took it personally.



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 09:54 AM
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reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


you must have some guilt hidden somewhere to think i was because you took it personally.

I thought it was a response to something I had written earlier to the person you addressed.

Guilt? Oh dear. No, nonono. Defensiveness? Yeah. I've learned I have to put on armor to go certain places. I am used to being misunderstood...

But thanks for the clarification. Odd that you chose here not to respond to the lengthy disclosure following that question. But, I've been told I get defensive easily, and ought not feel I must "justify myself" so hard. I talk too much.

:shrug:



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 09:55 AM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 





My heart aches even today to think of my little ones, who absolutely bonded with me, and who wept when I would leave, until they realized I'd be back. I was beloved by those children, and their parents, and I loved them back.
Why should I allow some "Board of Regents of Behavioral Science Practitioners" or whatever tell me "no, you can't communicate with them once they've left your program. No, you can't go talk to them off the clock. No, you may not accept their gifts of gratitude that they crafted with their own hands for you specifically. No, you can't go to their christenings, or birthday parties, or to their home for celebrations of holidays of any kind at all." Does that make sense to any of you? It doesn't to me.
And you know what their reasons for imposing those brutal restrictions were cloaked in? Wait for it..... "i'ts unethical" I kid you not. I told them to shove it, and left the "professional world," but did not stop working. And never will.


If you were being "unethical", they were just being plain heartless. How are you not to care, and become intertwined with those you choose to help. It would be counterproductive not to stay involved to some point, even after therapy is over.

I'm happy you followed your heart, and walked away. Its so sad it had to come to that.



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 09:56 AM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


What? What has pantheism to do with anything? I don't worship multiple Gods. I revere the Divine that is in everything and everyone.



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 10:02 AM
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reply to post by WhisperingWinds
 


If you were being "unethical", they were just being plain heartless. How are you not to care, and become intertwined with those you choose to help. It would be counterproductive not to stay involved to some point, even after therapy is over.


I know! Right? Un-freaking-believable, but yep, that was the "rule".... after spending time building trust, mutual respect, and rapport...after bonding...then you have to sever the relationship and abandon the client. WHAT?!


I'm happy you followed your heart, and walked away. Its so sad it had to come to that.

Well, I guess. But I've done just as much good (I think), if not more, by not having a "license" and some board of cold-hearted cya's breathing down my neck. They can't force their "license" on me, and they can't shut me up if I'm not on their list of "licensees". Get what I mean?

I have the education, the knowledge, and the skills. No "license" gives you that. It just gives you permission to do it under their "auspices." Regulations, you know. All based on self-protection of the agency and "profession", not the clients' or workers' best long term interests.

If I'm going in, I'm going all in. Not just "working" with people like "case files" and then walking away forever. Thanks for your support, though.

edit on 19-7-2012 by wildtimes because: spelling. sever, not severe.


EDIT to apologize to autowrench for going off topic. Didn't mean to derail your thread being "defensive". I'm just so tired of being judged, and worse, MISjudged.
edit on 19-7-2012 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 10:15 AM
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Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


What? What has pantheism to do with anything? I don't worship multiple Gods. I revere the Divine that is in everything and everyone.


I didnt say Polytheism, I said PANtheism. Polytheism is the belief there are multiple gods.

Pantheism ~ Plato

Pantheism comes from PAN "all" and THEOS "god" in Greek meaning "all/everything is god, part of god".

edit on 19-7-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 10:15 AM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 



There is not one single denomination that I have learned about that supports my personal understanding of the Divine Spirit within. But I know what it tells me, and it doesn't require anything but for me to be loving and to be a help to those in need. Over my lifetime I have done that -- not with money, because I have none -- but with compassion, respect, and dialogue, to partner with those in pain and help them discover how best to overcome their suffering.

I am a change agent. A social worker. And I have been since long, long before I was "granted" that "title" by an academic institution. That said, I refused to get a "license" to practice, because that would put on me too many restraints that don't make sense to me, like not bonding with clients, and cutting them off completely after working alongside them toward their own peace of mind.

How stupid is that? I found it impossible to work with people on a regular basis, in their homes, or in a private conversation, or a group setting if they chose (and those were youths who asked for a group, so I arranged one for them, and got the grant I wrote to do so)...and then WALK AWAY FROM THEM FOREVER when for whatever reason they had "graduated" -- for some of those people, I'd been bonded with them, and their BABIES for, say, a year and a half -- through their triumphs, their confusion, their moves and losses and fears, and when those babies turned 3 years old......I was forbidden to see them any longer. How much pain! How many tears, and years of missing them I've endured since then.

My heart aches even today to think of my little ones, who absolutely bonded with me, and who wept when I would leave, until they realized I'd be back. I was beloved by those children, and their parents, and I loved them back. Why should I allow some "Board of Regents of Behavioral Science Practitioners" or whatever tell me "no, you can't communicate with them once they've left your program. No, you can't go talk to them off the clock. No, you may not accept their gifts of gratitude that they crafted with their own hands for you specifically. No, you can't go to their christenings, or birthday parties, or to their home for celebrations of holidays of any kind at all."

Does that make sense to any of you? It doesn't to me. And you know what their reasons for imposing those brutal restrictions were cloaked in?

Wait for it.....

"i'ts unethical"



I kid you not. I told them to shove it, and left the "professional world," but did not stop working. And never will.


Nothing wrong with feeling compassion. I don't agree with the "unethical" part, but thats professionalism. It's the way of the world. In the end the love of many will grow cold and it's what is happening right now. Everyone is being pulled away from YHWH and distracted with other things, to the point it's more important to make a buck than it is to love someone and be a friend. Nurses have similar restrictions about patient contact. You did the right thing in regards to following your conscience and i do apologize for not addressing the rest of your post. I think if a person doesn't have a conscience and compassion, thats when theyre damned. The bible says it's like they've had their consciences seared with a hot iron, theyre just cold. That's the days we're living in, except now it's worldwide.



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 10:16 AM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


Oh, okay. Got it. My bad. I'm feeling rather defensive today, obviously. There's been a lot of "misunderstanding" of people's intentions lately....just trying to make myself clear.

Carry on...



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 10:22 AM
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Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


Oh, okay. Got it. My bad. I'm feeling rather defensive today, obviously. There's been a lot of "misunderstanding" of people's intentions lately....just trying to make myself clear.

Carry on...


No worries Wild. I edited my post above for further clarification from Philosophy.



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 10:28 AM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 


There is not one single denomination that I have learned about that supports my personal understanding of the Divine Spirit within. But I know what it tells me, and it doesn't require anything but for me to be loving and to be a help to those in need. Over my lifetime I have done that -- not with money, because I have none -- but with compassion, respect, and dialogue, to partner with those in pain and help them discover how best to overcome their suffering.

Hear hear! Only Buddhism, and a few other Asian based Religions and Wicca teaches the Divine within, as far as I know. I think the Gnostics taught a similar belief, but am not certain. Wildtimes, I am a lot like you, I reach out to help anyone in distress, and show all compassion, and help them to find inner strength. I simply do not understand the whole Christian concept that the Divine is somewhere other that within us all. An "out there" God. Where does this idea come from? Why the Church, of course.



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 10:33 AM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 



Pantheism comes from PAN "all" and THEOS "god" in Greek meaning "all/everything is god, part of god".


That is the correct definition, but somehow, I feel that doesn't quite cover the actual truth. Close, but not quite touching on it. Kinda like the beginning of the idea.

Still better than nothing though. However, I'll stick to "polycredic', because it isn't attached to the 'god' stigma.



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 10:35 AM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


What? What has pantheism to do with anything? I don't worship multiple Gods. I revere the Divine that is in everything and everyone.


I didnt say Polytheism, I said PANtheism. Polytheism is the belief there are multiple gods.

Pantheism ~ Plato

Pantheism comes from PAN "all" and THEOS "god" in Greek meaning "all/everything is god, part of god".


So you are saying there is only one God then? What about these?
The Gods Of The Bible
And, if there is only one God, then why did this God warn us not to worship "Other Gods?" Did this one God kill the other Gods? Please explain.



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 10:40 AM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 



but today's landscape is quite different.


Yep. Not a single man of cloth striving to cast down the powers that have us under its thumb. We want to fight the war, but you believe we don't have to.

We can't afford that kind of faith. Plain and simple. Sure, you might be right...but what if you're wrong?



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 10:45 AM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 


There's a reason for this. People sue and make the wildest accusations, and anything that is the least bit unprofessional is a liability that can cost big. In the interest of protecting their ability to provide these services, and keeping an eye on the well-being of their employees, they have to cover all their bases and make sure that the hyper-sensitive whackos on the outside can't find a reason to build a legitimate case (haha, what a joke
) and ruin everything that company worked to build.

It's like being a spy. If anyone catches you, kill them or silence them. It's a hard choice, but if you want to help more people, you have to make sacrifices. I guess you believed the sacrifice wasn't necessary.
edit on 19-7-2012 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 10:50 AM
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Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 



but today's landscape is quite different.


Yep. Not a single man of cloth striving to cast down the powers that have us under its thumb. We want to fight the war, but you believe we don't have to.

We can't afford that kind of faith. Plain and simple. Sure, you might be right...but what if you're wrong?


Have you looked at Romans 13? Or Christ's beatitude statement about peacemakers? What you're in essence advocating is rebellion. God hates rebellion.





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