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An Honest Question For ATS Preachers

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posted on Jul, 18 2012 @ 09:18 PM
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reply to post by jiggerj
 





Wow, LW, I'm really surprised to see this written from you. This is like saying that religion and god has done nothing, changed nothing. It just doesn't sound like you. Did this thread catch you in a down mood?


Religion has done nothing but get people killed and for dumb reasons. Has nothing to do with YHWH. Religions come from traditions of men pretending to be self important.




posted on Jul, 18 2012 @ 09:27 PM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 


I'm tempted to believe the channelers of the Galactic Federation of Light...really would like to! Their message is far more uplifting than the "Christian" channelers, who only warn of doom, gloom, death, and other horrible consequences for "stepping out of line."

I hear you. I have had some contact in the past, made no secret of that in my threads. Had visions too. And yes, I have been shown the gloom and doom, the full monty destruction, but was always told this is only one possible future, and the choices we (Humanity) make decide these possible futures. These were real beings I could touch, and hear. Who is it Christians channel? Oh, I know the names they have attached to it, but what is it, really?



posted on Jul, 18 2012 @ 09:30 PM
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reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 

Thank you, Lone Wolf, that contradicts the baptism rule then, doesn't it? So how, in your opinion as a Christian, would you go about saving a person on the internet, with no personal contact at all?



posted on Jul, 18 2012 @ 09:33 PM
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Honestly... I don't kno that I have led anyone to salvation through Jesus Christ.

On the other hand, I do hope that somewhere out there, someone may have a peace... maybe a question answered... a little more clarity of the Bible or a doctrine of Christianity.

I usually don't come here Bibles swinging bent on saving the lost and condemning the damned. Most times, I answer a question or refute a misunderstanding... or try to encourage people. Build up, love, encourage...

With this many visitors and members of ATS.... somewhere there is a person in doubt, someone hurting, someone weighed down by this old world... and as a Christian, it is my duty to help them... console them.

Too often, the athiests and non- elievers try to be clever and biting in their sarcasm or bitter in their condemnation of Christianity because of the Crusades or some Inquisition of centuries ago or because they had a bad experience in a so-called Christian church... so beit.

I can't help what someone did last century or last week... all I can do is tell you I love you, and that I am a better person because of Jesus... and I hope that you will find the peace through Him that I have.



posted on Jul, 18 2012 @ 09:34 PM
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reply to post by jhill76
 


No man on this Earth can save anyone. Others can only point in the right direction.

That's a good answer, jhill76, but who gets to decide what the "right direction" is? Who makes that call for you?



posted on Jul, 18 2012 @ 09:42 PM
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reply to post by article
 


btw... Why would my post/responce be possitive and uplifting when the OP has nothing to do with either of these traits. I'm not a "preacher" and I'm certainly not winning over any souls. If I am, then they probably wont go where they expect to. But I see and smell BS when it's in front of me... and this post was right there out in the open with all the other stinkers.

My, my, pretty harsh there, aren't you? I did not pick a fight with you. I asked a simple question. Why turn it into an argument, or pissing contest?

I do have a valid point yet to be revealed. I just wanted to see what our Christian members thought about these people who come to ATS and do the things I talked about in the OP. If you have been here for awhile, and have visited the Religious threads, you know who I am talking about here. I could easily name them all, but I won't, that is not the purpose of this thread. So take it easy, I am not "calling out" anyone, or "flaming anyone's faith," I just want some opinions on a trend you may or may not have noticed.



posted on Jul, 18 2012 @ 09:53 PM
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reply to post by AQuestion
 


As far as your approach goes, you seek to be confrontational, not to have a discussion; but, to ridicule.

I am really sorry that you read me this way, AQuestion. I am confrontational, that is how I make people think. But Do not ridicule, rather, I offer to educate. Perhaps I have the wrong approach from your standpoint, but I have had to defend my own position many times for people who came to try and save me. There have been many too. Some are kind, and when they discover you have a different faith, they wish you well and go away. Some want to argue you into submission. Some pray for you spontaneously. Some get very angry at you, and threaten you with harsh punishment if you don't do what they say. Some call you a Sinner, some call you Demon Possessed, some say you work for Satan.
Don't forget, I live within the Bible Belt, and we have a lot of religious people here, and some hate the others.

I do not have a religious gauge here in ATS, I am sorry that sometimes I tend to group, I know I should not. Trouble is, when you meet someone who is a Christian these days, you do not know for sure how they will be.

Like I said, I have a point, I want to see a few more responses first.



posted on Jul, 18 2012 @ 09:54 PM
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Originally posted by autowrench
reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 

Thank you, Lone Wolf, that contradicts the baptism rule then, doesn't it? So how, in your opinion as a Christian, would you go about saving a person on the internet, with no personal contact at all?


It doesn't violate anything there's no requirement to be baptised in order to recieve salvation, otherwise Yeshua wouldn't have taken the thief who believed in him with him to paradise. As i said before we don't save anyone, we witness to them.



posted on Jul, 18 2012 @ 10:28 PM
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reply to post by autowrench
 


Dear autowrench,



Perhaps I have the wrong approach from your standpoint, but I have had to defend my own position many times for people who came to try and save me. There have been many too. Some are kind, and when they discover you have a different faith, they wish you well and go away. Some want to argue you into submission. Some pray for you spontaneously. Some get very angry at you, and threaten you with harsh punishment if you don't do what they say. Some call you a Sinner, some call you Demon Possessed, some say you work for Satan.


I do understand frustration with people who seek to "save" you. I ask you to go back and read the response I was given on this thread from someone who thinks they are a christian. My statements were that I cannot save anyone, that is between a person and God, I am to have an answer for the hope that lies within me and when asked I do. The OP asked a question of believers and I answered him, if he asked a question of believers than to answer him as a believer is fair and not pushing anything. It would also be fair of me to ask a question of non-believers in the spirituality forum and that is not pushing my beliefs and anyone who did not wish to have an honest discussion would not need to join the thread or even read it.

I am not impressed when people tell me what I believe rather than asking me and allowing me to explain for myself. We don't have to agree on religion and we don't have to agree on politics; but, these are issues we should be free to discuss in a reasonable manner. These are the issues that are the most important, what is the meaning of life and how should we organize ourselves as a society. If we allow ourselves to become bitter because some people are improper then we miss out on the opportunity to get deeper into issues that really mean something.

The New Testament tells us to spread the word, to go into towns and profess it and that if nobody responds positively, we are to leave the town and wipe the dust off our shoes. I cannot find anything that says to go and chase people down and demand that they accept Christ. It is simple, if you don't want to hear it then I won't try and convert you. I actually believe in free will and that God can interact with anyone if he so chooses. If you choose to read posts in the spirituality section then you will risk, of your own choice, being reached out to by believers.

Recently, I was on a thread that asked what people thought of inter-dimensional beings being our perceived aliens. My response was to say that I saw them as demonic and I left it at that as far as religion goes and proceeded to discuss what scientists had to say about the phenomenon. I was told by one poster that they didn't think that we were allowed to say demonic on that forum. If I personally truly believe that our perceived aliens are demonic and not alien, should I be able to say that (you can check my profile and go read the thread for yourself, it is a recent one)? I did not preach and stayed on topic having made just that one reference without expanding on that aspect of my answer.

Just for your amusement, the "christian" who responded to me on this thread told me I would go to hell for not saving others. I have more of an issue with people like him than I do with non-believers. In response to the OP, yeah, I have had a few non-believers U2U me and maybe I impacted them; but, who knows what is truly in the heart of men. I had one person explained that they didn't believe; but, went to church for business reasons. I told him not to go and not to care what others thought.

Not all; but, most non-believers I know in the U.S. became atheists because they were taught bad dogma by harsh people and they were not allowed to think for themselves. I myself left Catholicism at age 12 and spent a decade researching the bible and Christianity (along with other religions) and it drove my mother insane. My mother originally refused to go to my wedding because it was not in a Catholic church (I am a Protestant). I told her to do what she believed she should. Maybe if we all relax and get to know one another better we can actually get into issues and learn from each other. Peace and best wishes (see I didn't pray for you; but, I reserve the right to think and pray as I will in private - which is how we are told to pray).



posted on Jul, 18 2012 @ 10:42 PM
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Originally posted by AQuestion
reply to post by autowrench
 


Dear autowrench,



I wasn't talking about anyone EXCEPT the self styled Christian Ministers who haunt this website. The ones with common rhetoric who label everything not in their book a Demon. The ones who parrot each other, and post long lines of Bible quotes for us to wade through. The ones who cannot defend their positions, but crow loudly that they hold the ultimate truth, or they talk to God/Jesus and God/Jesus tells them things. Not aimed at anyone else, so chillax.


Fair enough if we are fair to one another and don't over generalize. I do not group all atheists together and when I am grouped together with others who I disagree with, I will point it out. Part of the problem we face is that atheists who were taught bad doctrine and "christians" who were taught bad doctrine both frequently agree that the bad dogma is what the bible teaches and that presents a false view of the bible to others.

As far as your approach goes, you seek to be confrontational, not to have a discussion; but, to ridicule. You cannot complain about the "Christians" who do such things when you do the same and remain fair or balanced. Even your question about whether or not I have read the bible through is baiting, I have and many, many times and studied it and discuss it daily. What I find shocking today is the number of seminary students who have not read it all the way through which contributes to their passing on bad information to their congregations.

Whatever your experience is with "christians", is your experience; but, when you group everyone together rather than dealing with individuals you are as wrong as the "christians" you are complaining about. Perhaps you can help make things better by not imitating the wrong actions of others. We can set an example by ignoring the worst of both groups and attempting to have reasonable and constructive discussions with reasonable people with both sets of belief.



nah, it's not good enough. I'm still waiting to see these holy rollers come out of the woodwork like they exclaim. I dont see very much issues with this.

If someone makes a post that COULD have something to do with religion, and someone does insert a little about what they feel... They're slandered instantly and the antiholy brigade comes out to finish pouncing on the responder, all for adding his 2 cents.


It's kinda like this...:

Topic - UFO Abduction
- UFO
- ALIEN
- Not Real
- Very Real
- I Saw One!
- Might be a demon.

SCCCCRRRREEEEAAACCCCCHHHHHH!!!!

Did you say demon? You idion moronic bastard! How dare you post in our forums! Only ignorant people would believe in such make believe. Santa is more real than your god. Your jesus wasnt real, he was a bastard child by some roman rapist. BTW, the pope is havnig sex with your children and all priests are too and should burn in hell.. wait.. we dont believe in hell. So what does everyone think... Witch hunt? Lets have one, it's been a few hours! Where are those christians... Oh yeah!!!! The RELIGIOUS FORUMS! Lets go get em!


Yet, no one considers the ones screaming "FALSE! LIES! Make Believe!" are the same ones who believe in aliens, ufos, wicca spirits, or simply nothing at all.


Very Rich ATS. Love how you guys show your true colors daily.


Ya know.. Once I looked around and said... How could there be such destruction upon man. Man could not be as vile as is written, heartless, cold, empty, evil... There was no way that there was so much corruption in the world when everyone around me seems soooo normal...

...untill you speak about such topics. Then you realise why some people dont deserve happyness and how others dont deserve the pain and hell they live in. The way I look at it, I guess it's supposed to be that way.

Torment now or after, guess you really do choose where you go in the end by how you live today.. and how you treat others.

Id like to think that people are good heated by nature... But when I come here, I think that people are assholes by proxy, with only a few exceptions. Well, more Im sure. The ones that read and dont respond.. They've got the better idea. No point in getting into someone elses BS.... But some of you guys stur the pot so much and throw nothing out there but one sided lies that I have to make it a point to say something. Some people deserve a good tongue lashing when theyre obvious on the road to totaly loosing their sanity... at least seemingly so.

Sure, we'll see all sorts of weird, wild crazy posts here on ATS.... So why cant Christians have a say too?

Does it bother you THAT much? If that's the case, it's YOU who has the issue. Maybe you need to dig deeper into your own self and find out why before you continue to pounce or try to get one over on a person that has more compassion than most.



posted on Jul, 18 2012 @ 10:45 PM
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reply to post by AQuestion
 


I do understand frustration with people who seek to "save" you. I ask you to go back and read the response I was given on this thread from someone who thinks they are a christian. My statements were that I cannot save anyone, that is between a person and God, I am to have an answer for the hope that lies within me and when asked I do.

Thank you again for a very sincere answer. You have made my point.
You, or any person, no matter how filled with the Spirit, cannot save anyone. Why do some try this, then? I get U2s all the time from a few in here, "come to the Lord," and supplicate yourself before God." I hear it is the forums too.
I think we all should respect each other. I do not wish to join your church, or worship your God, or believe in your book. I do not wish these things pushed on me all the time. Don't believe in ETs or Aliens? Stay out of the thread we talk about them in. Want to profess your personal truth? Better come prepared is all I can say.
Christians and Muslims are on my radar, because I think at the higher levels they are trying to bring about the end of the world.



posted on Jul, 18 2012 @ 10:50 PM
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reply to post by AQuestion
 


Why not? Shouldnt you trust your parents? You would think there would be a good reason.

As an adult, if you are one, if you have kids... how is this any diffrent when you tell your child to take a bath?

- Well, there a thing called hygene. Do they know the word? Did you try to explain? or was it...

Just do it! Dont talk back.


I would think my parents had the best intentions. if they tell me its real, it's real till I say otherwise.

See how simple that is? Why complicate it?

oh yeah.. it's something to do with religion.


Man, it would be so cool to see God come down to earth one day and say, ok, I'm back, sorry for the wait, I tried to get here as fast as possible, but now that Im here, i see what kinda crap everyone is force feeding you. Sok, lets go home.


but what about us?


You can stay here with your kind... I'm taking my kind home with me.



What kinda blow would that be to the common athiest, anti-religious person? At that point, if I didnt believe, I would realise how doomed I would be to exist in a world of people who didnt believe in a damn thing.

Ya know.. I went there once... It's an empty life. How can a person go on when they realise that nothing is real in life that they live, die and are nothing ever more. When I was there, i was lonely, cold, empty and capable of doing anything because I had nothing to keep me in check. When you realise that there is nothing but this life, you start to realise just how unlivible this life becomes. Without faith, for me... Emptyness. Its a dark and cold place, the most Ive ever seen. Such a place cant exist because there is nothing in it. No emotion, no happyness, nothing.

if this is soothing to you, enjoy. I simply cant beleve, live, in a world of emptyness. I'll take my beliefs and hold on to them as long as I can.



posted on Jul, 18 2012 @ 10:56 PM
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Originally posted by autowrench
reply to post by article
 


btw... Why would my post/responce be possitive and uplifting when the OP has nothing to do with either of these traits. I'm not a "preacher" and I'm certainly not winning over any souls. If I am, then they probably wont go where they expect to. But I see and smell BS when it's in front of me... and this post was right there out in the open with all the other stinkers.

My, my, pretty harsh there, aren't you? I did not pick a fight with you. I asked a simple question. Why turn it into an argument, or pissing contest?

I do have a valid point yet to be revealed. I just wanted to see what our Christian members thought about these people who come to ATS and do the things I talked about in the OP. If you have been here for awhile, and have visited the Religious threads, you know who I am talking about here. I could easily name them all, but I won't, that is not the purpose of this thread. So take it easy, I am not "calling out" anyone, or "flaming anyone's faith," I just want some opinions on a trend you may or may not have noticed.



Because that's exactly what it is. When I read your OP the first time, it appealed to those like you, to use it as a tool to call out someone simply to mock them and have everyone do so along with you.

Every single "Christian" thread is like this. There are no "constructive" topics on the subject. If there was, it would have been flooded with BS anyways.

If you TRUELY wanted to know the answer, you would have done so in a totaly diffrent manner. you wouldnt have used the words you did and you would most definatly not have laid it out in that format.


So tell me... If you are sooo serious...

Exactly, Specificly... WHY do you want to know this information? WHAT does it do for you? ARE you looking for God?



posted on Jul, 18 2012 @ 11:07 PM
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Originally posted by autowrench
reply to post by AQuestion
 


As far as your approach goes, you seek to be confrontational, not to have a discussion; but, to ridicule.

I am really sorry that you read me this way, AQuestion. I am confrontational, that is how I make people think. But Do not ridicule, rather, I offer to educate. Perhaps I have the wrong approach from your standpoint, but I have had to defend my own position many times for people who came to try and save me. There have been many too. Some are kind, and when they discover you have a different faith, they wish you well and go away. Some want to argue you into submission. Some pray for you spontaneously. Some get very angry at you, and threaten you with harsh punishment if you don't do what they say. Some call you a Sinner, some call you Demon Possessed, some say you work for Satan.
Don't forget, I live within the Bible Belt, and we have a lot of religious people here, and some hate the others.

I do not have a religious gauge here in ATS, I am sorry that sometimes I tend to group, I know I should not. Trouble is, when you meet someone who is a Christian these days, you do not know for sure how they will be.

Like I said, I have a point, I want to see a few more responses first.



How do you educate others on a topic you apparently dont know about... I mean, youre asking christians.


So, you're getting information from christians so you can educate soemone else? This makes no sense what so ever.

Me thinks you have a purpose alright, and I dont see how that purpose is close to being non-ridicule when thats all that seems to come out of it.



posted on Jul, 18 2012 @ 11:08 PM
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Originally posted by AQuestion
reply to post by autowrench
 


Dear autowrench,



Perhaps I have the wrong approach from your standpoint, but I have had to defend my own position many times for people who came to try and save me. There have been many too. Some are kind, and when they discover you have a different faith, they wish you well and go away. Some want to argue you into submission. Some pray for you spontaneously. Some get very angry at you, and threaten you with harsh punishment if you don't do what they say. Some call you a Sinner, some call you Demon Possessed, some say you work for Satan.


I do understand frustration with people who seek to "save" you. I ask you to go back and read the response I was given on this thread from someone who thinks they are a christian. My statements were that I cannot save anyone, that is between a person and God, I am to have an answer for the hope that lies within me and when asked I do. The OP asked a question of believers and I answered him, if he asked a question of believers than to answer him as a believer is fair and not pushing anything. It would also be fair of me to ask a question of non-believers in the spirituality forum and that is not pushing my beliefs and anyone who did not wish to have an honest discussion would not need to join the thread or even read it.

I am not impressed when people tell me what I believe rather than asking me and allowing me to explain for myself. We don't have to agree on religion and we don't have to agree on politics; but, these are issues we should be free to discuss in a reasonable manner. These are the issues that are the most important, what is the meaning of life and how should we organize ourselves as a society. If we allow ourselves to become bitter because some people are improper then we miss out on the opportunity to get deeper into issues that really mean something.

The New Testament tells us to spread the word, to go into towns and profess it and that if nobody responds positively, we are to leave the town and wipe the dust off our shoes. I cannot find anything that says to go and chase people down and demand that they accept Christ. It is simple, if you don't want to hear it then I won't try and convert you. I actually believe in free will and that God can interact with anyone if he so chooses. If you choose to read posts in the spirituality section then you will risk, of your own choice, being reached out to by believers.

Recently, I was on a thread that asked what people thought of inter-dimensional beings being our perceived aliens. My response was to say that I saw them as demonic and I left it at that as far as religion goes and proceeded to discuss what scientists had to say about the phenomenon. I was told by one poster that they didn't think that we were allowed to say demonic on that forum. If I personally truly believe that our perceived aliens are demonic and not alien, should I be able to say that (you can check my profile and go read the thread for yourself, it is a recent one)? I did not preach and stayed on topic having made just that one reference without expanding on that aspect of my answer.

Just for your amusement, the "christian" who responded to me on this thread told me I would go to hell for not saving others. I have more of an issue with people like him than I do with non-believers. In response to the OP, yeah, I have had a few non-believers U2U me and maybe I impacted them; but, who knows what is truly in the heart of men. I had one person explained that they didn't believe; but, went to church for business reasons. I told him not to go and not to care what others thought.

Not all; but, most non-believers I know in the U.S. became atheists because they were taught bad dogma by harsh people and they were not allowed to think for themselves. I myself left Catholicism at age 12 and spent a decade researching the bible and Christianity (along with other religions) and it drove my mother insane. My mother originally refused to go to my wedding because it was not in a Catholic church (I am a Protestant). I told her to do what she believed she should. Maybe if we all relax and get to know one another better we can actually get into issues and learn from each other. Peace and best wishes (see I didn't pray for you; but, I reserve the right to think and pray as I will in private - which is how we are told to pray).




Hate to quote the whole thing but Perfectly said! I wont have to say another word. You just put everything I could have ever said to make a point. Especially when beliefs are usually picked apart not for learning but for ridicule.


edit on 18-7-2012 by article because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 18 2012 @ 11:12 PM
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reply to post by autowrench
 


I knew you had an angle.

Guess that really was BS I was smelling.


You were making a point... And I do believe you're wrong. Someone else can save another. You just are not open minded enough to see how.

It happens every day. If you cannot see how... sorry. Im not here to enlighten you. Guess Im not here to save you afterall.



posted on Jul, 18 2012 @ 11:21 PM
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reply to post by autowrench
 


Dear autowrench,



I think we all should respect each other. I do not wish to join your church, or worship your God, or believe in your book. I do not wish these things pushed on me all the time. Don't believe in ETs or Aliens? Stay out of the thread we talk about them in. Want to profess your personal truth? Better come prepared is all I can say.


Don't join my church unless you feel a need to, don't worship my God unless you believe in him and don't believe the book unless you believe it. Is that simple enough. I sent a U2U prior to having read this response so I will give you time to consider what you have said to me. Now, how dare you tell me not to respond to certain threads, I did not know you were our official censor. Think again, the person asked about inter-dimensional beings and other dimensions include heaven and hell as possibilities. If we can make up any dimensions we want than those are allowable dimensions. As for being prepared, take your own advice, I always am.



posted on Jul, 18 2012 @ 11:22 PM
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reply to post by article
 


"Idiotic moronic bastards"?

Well, that just eliminated Drs. Jacques Valle and J. Allen Hynek from posting in the UFO forums then. Both these giants in UFOlogy believed and stated that the phenomena isn't extraterrestrial but is extradimensional and "demonic in nature".

edit on 18-7-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 18 2012 @ 11:30 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


I had to go back to see how I made mention of that... In a horrible misspelling, to boot. lol


It was used mockingly. I was acting the role of those that make the threads against religion/beliefs when such topics are discussed.

Personaly I think aliens and demons might go hand in hand, but I dunno. Ive never seen one that I know of. Seen shadow people once, but other than that, no crazy lights, no alients.. Only youtube.

But yes, it was not me saying that. I was mearly mocking the common "sayer" here when it comes to such discussions.



posted on Jul, 18 2012 @ 11:33 PM
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reply to post by article
 


Yes, after I posted I realized it was sarcasm. Tricky sometimes to pick up on the first attempt catching a convo in the middle of things. The famous Drs came to this conclusion from their investigative works and neither of them are Christians.






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