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An Honest Question For ATS Preachers

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posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 11:50 PM
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reply to post by AQuestion
 

You didn't give your answer about Moses or the other things I asked. Yet, clearly those responses showed up in your "Replies" section before my response to this person.
Because your "question" is just some rambling that makes no sense and is saying something the opposite of what happened.
The Israelites entered the promised land and Moses did not. Now most of those who came out of Egypt at that point did not either. They rebelled and died in the wilderness, so you have no point here as you set up the scenario.
Being "saved" by getting clear of the Pharaoh is more the opportunity to do good, and does not guarantee admission in the end.
edit on 19-7-2012 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)




posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 11:52 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


Here is the thing, anyone who can read the question I asked could figure it out and you just explained that you could not make any sense of it. Good night.



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 11:59 PM
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reply to post by adjensen
 


No, no props go to you my old friend.


P.S. Jesus is the second person of the Trinity.



posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 08:43 AM
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reply to post by autowrench
 

How can we walk and be as Christ was, if we are divided between two fathers? Choose the middle.



posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 08:45 AM
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reply to post by ezekielken
 

And I forgot. Renounce your Father as well.



posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 08:47 AM
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reply to post by ezekielken
 


Also, Valentine Michael Smith for President. Or maybe Pedro.



posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 10:53 AM
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Originally posted by autowrench
I was asked this by a friend who is a member, and thought it a good question to ask of the devout membership for an answer. Here goes:

As an Internet Preacher, we are aware your mission is to gain converts, that much is a given. What I want to ask is, how many of the ATS membership have you been able to "Save?" How many have recanted their ways and old religions, and fully embraced Christianity because of you?

Please feel free to crow here.


Why do you ask only of the Believer in Christ.

How many satanist have converted others,

How many atheist have converted others,

How many of any of the many different world religions have done so.

I myself do not believe anyone has been converted by my tries, but I do believe that many who are on the fence for already a believer are affirmed in their faith as they see others who are of one accord, and that is also a need in the work of Christ. For if I affirm another and they win someone to Christ then praise be to God in Heaven.

It should be said that many here on ATS will never convert as they believe they know everything, which in fact they do not know 1% of anything and are willingly ignorant that God could exist in the 99% of what they do not know.

Many Jesus Bless you and Yours.



posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 10:57 AM
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reply to post by ACTS 2:38
 



Why do you ask only of the Believer in Christ.

How many satanist have converted others,

How many atheist have converted others,


You guys are the only ones trying to save souls, and you're the only ones who adamantly proclaim that you are the only ones who are right.

Hence, the resistance.



posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 11:04 AM
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reply to post by autowrench
 


From your little history lesson (thanks for the pleasure, btw) we can see that sin is actually a propagation of life lessons...

I'm thinking more and more that everything in the Bible is actually the polar opposite of the truth, besides Genesis. That one seems fairly legit, in a metaphorical sense.



posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 11:07 AM
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Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by ACTS 2:38
 



Why do you ask only of the Believer in Christ.

How many satanist have converted others,

How many atheist have converted others,


You guys are the only ones trying to save souls, and you're the only ones who adamantly proclaim that you are the only ones who are right.


I guess that you've never listened to the New Atheists, then. They not only say that they're the only ones who are right, they claim that those who don't agree with them are mentally deranged.

And to ACTS 2:38, claiming that these evangelical atheists never converted anyone would be a foolish assumption. Their claim of intellectual superiority and over the top arrogance can be quite the siren's song for those who tend toward a herd mentality.



posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 11:11 AM
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reply to post by AQuestion
 

Here is the thing, anyone who can read the question I asked could figure it out and you just explained that you could not make any sense of it. Good night.

Whatever it is that your little story is supposed to be an analogy for, is this something you read in a book, or saw on a YouTube video, or is it something you made up yourself, maybe as part of one of your sermons?
My point is, is this something that is known to work, as in tried and tested and analyzed to see if people actually do get some sort of understanding from it?
If not, I think it is rather premature of you to assume some evil spirit inside me preventing me from "getting it".
I think you may have a problem with pride in your preaching abilities when you see failure in your rhetoric as proof of the damnation of your listeners.



posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 11:34 AM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

Sinless perfection is not a Biblical doctrine.
OH?
Adam and Eve, for example, were they created sinful and flawed?
If not, then here is biblical sinless perfection.
How about Jesus, was he sinful and flawed?
You give an example of Peter, I guess to show how no one can stop being sinful because he did not accept gentiles. I think Peter is normally used as an example in the NT of how someone who has a natural tendency to do wrong things can eventually overcome those faults. Once he was shown the truth in the parable you were referring to, he changed his behavior to conform with the new light.
Here is one of my favorite OT passages about how to have a proper relationship with God, in the NIV version of Psalms 139:23, 24

Search me, God, and know my heart;
test me and know my anxious thoughts.
See if there is any offensive way in me,
and lead me in the way everlasting.


Here is David (or someone writing for him) asking God to search him out to see if there is any fault in him, so as to correct his steps to be in perfect conformity with the way of life.
Paul in Philippians confronts people who claim to be already perfected and does not say they are not, though he seems to suspect they are not by his apparent sarcasm, goes on to describe how he puts all his effort into striving constantly to be perfected himself.
I think that if you do not see perfection as the goal of Christians and all believers in God, then you should produce where the Bible teaches to be lackadaisical in our nature in disregard to sins we commit and continue to commit and how to be content in our current flawed state.


edit on 20-7-2012 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 01:52 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


Okay.. yes. Sinless perfection POST-FALL isn‘t Biblical doctrine. David sorta had a dude murdered to cover up his adultery. He was not sinless. Peter needed to be rebuked for not following the Lord's command to him in a vision after the outpouring of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost.



posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 02:27 PM
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Originally posted by ezekielken
reply to post by autowrench
 

How can we walk and be as Christ was, if we are divided between two fathers? Choose the middle.

I agree. And believe me, the Middle Path is the hardest path to follow. It is very narrow between Light and Darkness, but the Middle Path person know one defines the other, and both are necessary.



posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 02:28 PM
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reply to post by autowrench
 


Ah, so I'm a middle. Sounds kinda kinky.



posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 02:33 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

Okay.. yes.
Yes . . what? You are saying Jesus was a sinner?

Sinless perfection POST-FALL isn‘t Biblical doctrine.
Apparently you are (saying that).
Jesus being the "Lamb of God" had to be without blemish.
Also as I already brought up, and you have ignored, this is fundamental to Paul's doctrine of salvation that as sin and death entered by one man, also by one man righteousness was brought into the world, meaning by Jesus, a righteous man.

David sorta had a dude murdered to cover up his adultery.
So you are nullifying the entire Psalms because David committed a sin? Looks like that is what you are saying. By that logic, you should throw away the entire Bible.

He was not sinless.
The verses I quoted from Psalms is an ideal for other people to model themselves after, regardless of what any particular person may have done wrong at some point in their life. You apparently take offence at the suggestion that anyone should bother themselves by striving for holiness as the Bible exhorts all believers to do.

Peter needed to be rebuked for not following the Lord's command to him in a vision after the outpouring of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost.
So? Perfection apparently is not instantaneous, and something people have to work at, but I suppose "works" is anathema to you, who feels sin is natural and just keep doing it and crucify Jesus every day for a fresh supply of blood. The New Testament does not support that attitude, and in fact suggests that there is no salvation available to those who think and act according to that sort of belief.
edit on 20-7-2012 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 02:35 PM
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reply to post by ACTS 2:38
 


Why do you ask only of the Believer in Christ.

Simple. No other religion attempts to convert everyone to their way.

How many satanist have converted others

Unknown, I am not a Satanist, and don't even believe in Satan as a real being.

How many atheist have converted others

Don't know that, either.

How many of any of the many different world religions have done so.

Don't know that either. I know I have taught more than a few on the ways and the Craft of the Wise, but we do not "convert," in fact, if your heart isn't into it, we don't even want you.

I do know this, when the doorbell rings early in the morning, and a man in a suit, or a woman in a dress is standing there with a bible in their hand, it does not take any stretch of imagination to know what religion they are, and what their agenda is.



posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 04:19 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


No, I never said or implied Jesus was a sinner. And I have never said or implied that people should strive for holiness. Be led and directed by the Spirit, not the flesh. There is however a difference between Legalism and Holiness. I'm completely for the latter, completely against the former.


edit on 20-7-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 04:29 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


Lol.. you literally did just type that "works are anathema" to me?? I've told you probably no less than 30 times that works don't save/justify us. But works/fruit follow genuine faith (James), and are the "why" of God's choice to redeem us. (Ephesians 2:8-10). You can't seem to grasp the difference between being against something completely and being against a dysfunctional motive for doing a good thing.




edit on 20-7-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 06:25 PM
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Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by adjensen
 


Geez, you're pretty touchy. You made a remark that implied that you believe non-Christians are Christians, simply because they profess to following some of what Christ had to say. By that logic, Muslims are Christians, as are Buddhists and anyone else who follows the Golden Rule.

"Christians", in my book, are people who follow what he is recorded as teaching.
Yes, the Golden Rule is ALL THERE IS!!

wow. I'm outta here. Your closed minds can carry on being closed, I won't bother you any more tonight.



Christians are his believers who follow what he teaches. If you don't believe in him you can do all that till you're blue in the face and Yahweh will only see your transgressions. Thats why it is written your good works are as a filthy rag before his sight. His definition of good and our definition of good are two totally different things and this is why Yeshua said:

Matthew 5:20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.

The pharisees were professional law givers and lawyers. They took what they did very seriously, studying the Torah religiously, their entire lives spent in scholarly study yet they failed in Yeshua's eyes. Why? Because Yahweh has different standards then men do, and they were following their own standards and turned it into a tradition of men, putting ceremonial law above the Divine law.

It doesn't matter what you do under your own power, if you do not have the blood of the Passover Lamb on you, Yahweh will see nothing but your transgressions. This was prophecied of in Exodus 12 during the first Passover.The Feasts of Yahweh all have prophetic meaning, a lesson to be learned.



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