An Honest Question For ATS Preachers

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posted on Jul, 18 2012 @ 11:35 PM
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reply to post by autowrench
 


I am an apologist, not an evangelist. When people spout nonsense (like claiming that the Piso family wrote the Bible, lol,) I will refute it, but as to what you believe...

I don't care. That bugs some people, but I truly don't. What you believe or don't is between you and God, it's really none of my affair. I know that there are those who point out that Christians are charged with spreading the good news, but I suppose that I do that, in my own way, and St. Paul points out in Romans 12:6 that we all have different gifts, and mine is apparently not caring about converting people, but correcting misstatements of the truth.




posted on Jul, 18 2012 @ 11:36 PM
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reply to post by article
 


Dear article,



Why not? Shouldn't you trust your parents? You would think there would be a good reason.


When I was a child, I thought as a child. When I became an adult, my views changed, when I got married my views changed and when I had my own children my views changed. Have faith, real faith, believe that God is in charge, that we have free will and should and that everything works to his will. You are responsible for your soul, not your parents and not me or any other preacher. Not all resources are good, in the end you need to examine your heart and you are judged by God based on your love of others not on whether or not you spelled or said Jehovah correctly.

The name "Jesus Christ" means God's salvation or God's forgiveness. The sound of the words in Hebrew are not sacred, what is sacred is the meaning of what the name means not how it is pronounced. Salvation is not a game, it is not a trick to see how well you will do on the sobriety test. You get a whole life to figure out if you are a selfish justifier or someone who really cares about others. If you choose to only care about yourself or care about yourself at the expense of others than you buy yourself the reward you should have, you get to be by yourself for ever, your God (I am not saying this is your choice, I am responding to your post to me).

Not caring about others is unforgivable because it means that you should not be with others, that is called solitary confinement. Caring about others only so that you can get saved doesn't get you there either, it is still selfish. You are responsible for you and it is okay if you don't understand the rules perfectly, you understand love and hate and choose. Whether you believe in God or not, you can understand that if you are selfish and don't care about others that you are evil, you would feel the same way about others who viewed you that way.



posted on Jul, 18 2012 @ 11:37 PM
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Originally posted by autowrench
reply to post by jhill76
 


No man on this Earth can save anyone. Others can only point in the right direction.

That's a good answer, jhill76, but who gets to decide what the "right direction" is? Who makes that call for you?


For a lay person, that would be up to you to decide if it's right for you. I am not in the saving business, I cannot answer this question with full conviction.



posted on Jul, 18 2012 @ 11:38 PM
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reply to post by article
 


Dear article,



Hate to quote the whole thing but Perfectly said! I wont have to say another word. You just put everything I could have ever said to make a point. Especially when beliefs are usually picked apart not for learning but for ridicule.


Sorry, I responded to your earlier post after you had posted this. Funny how timing works. Let us take a day and wait till we are sure that we have each had a chance to process our responses before responding again and I am happy to U2U if we get off topic. Peace.



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 12:09 AM
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reply to post by article
 


Someone else can save another. You just are not open minded enough to see how.

My mind is completely open. Please, explain how it is you save someone else from your vision of Hell? How is this done? Is there a ritual involved? You threw it out there, now defend it.



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 12:18 AM
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reply to post by AQuestion
 


Now, how dare you tell me not to respond to certain threads, I did not know you were our official censor.

That was not my meaning, that is aimed at those trolls who come in there with their vast knowledge of Demonic activity and disguises who inform us in every other thread there are no Aliens, they are all Demons, or Fallen Angels, because intelligent life only exists on Earth alone. I remember that thread you were in, and if I was one who insulted you, please, accept my sincere apology. I just get tired of the labels and of those who think Jesus talks to them, or professes to have been there when something happened 2000 years ago. I know what an Alien is, and I know what an Inferior is. And no, they are not the same thing. And as for Inferiors, every human being has several attached to them, whether they believe it or not. These things follow religious people around like flies follow honey. Open up, and they they are. Be always vigilant in these matters.



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 12:20 AM
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reply to post by adjensen
 

Well, I have read enough about to know they did have a lot to do with the authorship. Romans wrote it, made it up, and sooner or later this will all come out. You can believe it if you want, but tell me, how does it help you?
And on the same vein, when I see someone posting something not true, of of a mythical source, or other mistakes, I will always correct them.
edit on 7/19/12 by autowrench because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 12:33 AM
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Originally posted by autowrench
reply to post by AQuestion
 


Now, how dare you tell me not to respond to certain threads, I did not know you were our official censor.

That was not my meaning, that is aimed at those trolls who come in there with their vast knowledge of Demonic activity and disguises who inform us in every other thread there are no Aliens, they are all Demons, or Fallen Angels, because intelligent life only exists on Earth alone. I remember that thread you were in, and if I was one who insulted you, please, accept my sincere apology. I just get tired of the labels and of those who think Jesus talks to them, or professes to have been there when something happened 2000 years ago. I know what an Alien is, and I know what an Inferior is. And no, they are not the same thing. And as for Inferiors, every human being has several attached to them, whether they believe it or not. These things follow religious people around like flies follow honey. Open up, and they they are. Be always vigilant in these matters.


Dear autowrench,

We are having a U2U conversation and have passed the point of the post I am responding to. As for who insulted me on that past thread, don't know and don't care who it was. As for the prior post on aliens, I do not believe that I pushed a religious agenda and anyone can read the thread. I believe in alien life; but, I don't believe that the actions of what we see on earth indicate aliens are coming here, it indicates demonic or at a minimum that which we used to call demons. Really bad beings at work. You choose if you wish to put a positive light on them. Is my merely raising the question of whether or not the reported experiences used to be called demonic possessions improper? What other questions should I not be allowed to ask? What if you ask your questions and I ask my questions and you give your answers and I give my answers and we allow the moderators to determine what is on or off topic. It is their site and I can live with that. Peace.



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 12:43 AM
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Originally posted by AQuestion
reply to post by jmdewey60
 


Dear jmdewey60,



James and Jude would say otherwise so to me it looks like you are shirking your responsibility. We have a duty to save people and must work at it tirelessly. You will probably discover the truth to that too late, when you are in hell.


Jesus saves, not me and not you. We were given the great commission. I do my job and let Jesus do his and shame on you for wishing hell on anyone, judge not lest you be judged.
I think you are blowing up what I said into something else altogether, saying I am "wishing hell" on you.
So, according to you, admonishment is not any of your concern and you are well within your rights to countenance sin in your brothers? I would be concerned with your own fate if you present Christ in your church and allow sin in it, thinking it is none of your concern. You are in serious danger and should remove yourself immediately from the position for the sake of not only your own soul but the souls of all of those in the congregation.



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 12:44 AM
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Originally posted by autowrench
reply to post by adjensen
 

Well, I have read enough about to know they did have a lot to do with the authorship. Romans wrote it, made it up, and sooner or later this will all come out.


Yeah, see, the problem with that is that whoever wrote the Bible seemed to be intimately familiar with the culture, place names and a lot of seemingly insignificant statistics associated with the region. Logically, there is no reason that the Piso family would know any of that junk, or would think it relevant to include.

I sincerely dislike YouTube videos without substantiation, so I'll recommend the following with the note that it responds to the exact objection above -- that the Bible could have been written by a non-Jew.

If you're not well versed in statistics, it may not make much sense to you, sorry.




posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 12:49 AM
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reply to post by autowrench
 





And on the same vein, when I see someone posting something not true, of of a mythical source, or other mistakes, I will always correct them.


I guess its a matter of perspective on what you trust as truth. What you see as mistakes could be truths to others, and vice versa.

You seem at times to use questionable resources, that are at times inaccurate , and leave your arguments full of misguided accusations based on material that could as easily be questioned, just as you say the writings and teachings gathered to formulate the bible need to be questioned, and researched. The thing is , they have been much more researched than perhaps what you have researched, and judging from a few of your statements about the bible, I think you did not research it sufficiently , or failed to understand the meaning of some of the passages.

Your truth is not necessarily actual truth, and we can only pray that we all be opened to the absolute truth , and that we do not block the wisdom God may wish to give us concerning truth. There can only be one truth concerning higher power in the end, and I suppose in time we will all not be able to deny the revelations of that truth.






edit on 19-7-2012 by WhisperingWinds because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 12:50 AM
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Originally posted by autowrench
I know what an Alien is, and I know what an Inferior is. And no, they are not the same thing. And as for Inferiors, every human being has several attached to them, whether they believe it or not. These things follow religious people around like flies follow honey. Open up, and they they are. Be always vigilant in these matters.


I suspected this for a while, too. They are also happy when we worship and pray because that is free energy for them, instead of them remembering how to connect to The Source which always giving energy...

There are physical aliens living on worlds and there are some living in a higher dimension on those worlds and there are aliens which can shift through the physical and spiritual dimensions...

What I don't understand is, why is it that they are called demons just because they have spirits? Are only humans supposed to have souls?


There is not just "living" and "dead", "body" and "spirit" there are dimensions in between.

Getting back on topic, about preaching on ATS. I don't think any of the preaching being preached to actually convert but it may be interesting to others searching the Internet for answers...

If a person is preaching that the Earth is really flat and scientists are working with The Devil and lying to deceive, another person can come on and explain how that is non-sense and hopefully religious people who are questioning and searching on the Internet will see that and not fall for the craziness.



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 12:54 AM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


Dear jmdewey60,



I think you are blowing up what I said into something else altogether, saying I am "wishing hell" on you. So, according to you, admonishment is not any of your concern and you are well within your rights to countenance sin in your brothers? I would be concerned with your own fate if you present Christ in your church and allow sin in it, thinking it is none of your concern. You are in serious danger and should remove yourself immediately from the position for the sake of not only your own soul but the souls of all of those in the congregation.


I repeated what you said, I did not blow it up into anything. You then proceed to attempt to put words in my mouth, who are you to admonish me, are you my pastor? Are there not procedures within your church for admonishing other Christians? Your fundamentalism and foolishness are self evident and you drive people away from the hope they are to have. You are worse than an atheist, you are a heretic. Do you not know the words of Paul, he said he was the greatest sinner of all. Do you believe he lied or would you not have allowed him in your church because he was a sinner? Thank you for exposing yourself before the non-believers, lets talk some more.

Tell me the great commission. Tell me that you save souls. Tell me that you are the beginning and end of all truth, Jesus asked that question and it is still valid. You pervert the word and prevent people from hearing the truth. You seek validation through works and care not about your heart or the people you claim to save, you do such things out of selfishness and not concern. Shall I go on? Yes, I will. Go watch some prosperity preacher like Benny Hinn or that Price guy, go fill you heart with superiority and hate and tell yourself you have the love of God in your heart. Just don't waste your time talking to me until you actually care about every soul on this earth. And I skip what I would like to day even though using cuss words is not sin and God called us asses.



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 01:09 AM
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Originally posted by adjensen
reply to post by autowrench
 


I am an apologist, not an evangelist. When people spout nonsense (like claiming that the Piso family wrote the Bible, lol,) I will refute it, but as to what you believe...

I don't care. That bugs some people, but I truly don't. What you believe or don't is between you and God, it's really none of my affair. I know that there are those who point out that Christians are charged with spreading the good news, but I suppose that I do that, in my own way, and St. Paul points out in Romans 12:6 that we all have different gifts, and mine is apparently not caring about converting people, but correcting misstatements of the truth.


I think the OP has it in mind that it's supposed to be 'All christians are supposed to actively reap souls for God" in the way that it comes out in words. I guess some people look at words and take the absolute litteral meaning rather than understand how the words are used to note something similar but not the same. It's not really twisting words so much as ignoring what they mean and taking it litteral rather than understanding the concept as a whole.

When I was growing up, I had a dvout non-denomination christian friend. He believed he was supposed to spread the word to save as many as possible, as the OP has put. But, the idea behind it wasnt to go out and beat the devil out of someone, it was to spread the idea behind the words that were given directly or indirectly, however you believe, to others so that Gods love is shared among all.

I take this as something akin to this.


Jimmy, go out into the world and bring people back to God.
- Jimmy goes out and starts hanging out with the failures, the druggies, the bumbs, the convicts, the rejects, and the regular kids down the street. He pulls together various tournaments for the children, donations for the hungry, blankets for the bumbs, words of wisdom for convicts and direction for what they can do with their lives after jail.. and so forth.

What Jimmy did was spread the love that God gave him. He didnt preach. He didnt do anything of the sort. He was just there for them, helped when he could and loved, cared and enjoyed their company. He didnt need to preach.

At some point, some of those people may have asked him why, or may have wondered. If any had seen a bible in his back pocket, a cross around his neck, of if he answered any questions of why, they may have known. He could have just said....

"God made it known to me that there are others around me who need care more than I and it's my part in life to do that for others as others and God have cared for me.. to the best of my ability". He wouldnt have to preach, disctate scripture, or even if he made mention of some that would apply to the cituation or any words of wisdom, as christians often do, crimeless of course..... Those people may realise and may become aware and maybe, and this does happen, one or more of those people may in turn, do the same or join him in doing the same.

Say.. one of those guys, kids, get in an accident the next day, passes on.. Then I would say... If that person took up the cause also, then yes... Jimmy helped saving that guy. He may even directly responcible for his conversion and his path to the hereafter based on what he done with his actions, not his words.


I tend to follow in the footsteps of those above me that are rightouse. Naturally and unknowingly, we follow those we adore, look up to... For me, this person would have to be gentle, kind, loving.. etc. If I had and did follow someone of that sort, then why should they not take part in the feelings of good as they may have had influenced me to be the way I am now, or will be.

So since you can influence without words... I would assume the same is possible with Godly people. Matter of fact, I've seen it much of my life. It only takes a person to look at the good around them, rather than bash it to the ground because they dont know it's name or origin.



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 01:45 AM
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reply to post by AQuestion
 


Never a problem, my friend. Words are horrible things to go off of in forums as one can never really tell how they're used. I'm sure alot of people look at my posts and say they're hateful. If they seen my face while I typed them, and heard the voice in my heard uttering these words, they would appear very diffrent.

So no worries if anything has gotten confused.

My stance on it all... Leave your fellow man's personal beliefs alone. Offer wisdom and advice to those that wish it, love to those that want it, and peace to those that request it. Allways do right by your neighbor and remember, no matter how good or bad you feel, someone can always feel the same or worse, and realise, that person in front of you may hate life more than you do.... and you never know when you'll have the answer someone else needs.

God works through all of us, like it or not. Athiest or whatever. He is ours and we are his.

I firmly believe, every single one of us can find any answer we ask, if we just ask the right person with the right reason in heart.

I can say, I totaly believe this, but the only proof I have is my own, yet I can tell you a million ways why I believe this works...

I believe I hear God every second of my life. It's not a audible voice, but it is a voice and it is audible. Confusing, yes... but...Every question I ask, an answer is there and is firm. They come in visions, inaudible words, thoughts, and those words are always "loving". I can tell the diffrence between my thoughts and feelings and that "wisdom" that falls over me in the forms I just mentioned. If I ask a question of something, usually an understanding on both sides of the topic comes to mind.

Now.. Some would say.. Thats just you talking to you...

Sorry folks... The stuff that comes out of my mouth sometimes, comes out fully and perfectly, but I didnt think or say them. They're just there suddenly at the right moment. If I elaborate on them, it always messes up and makes me sound like a fool. So I say as it comes out and shut up and all is well.

How do I know it's not me? Because even though I may be poetic, when these words of wisdom comes, it's not by my thoughts. I should know. I know what I think about as I think of them. There is a process. This is beyond that. Those words come quick and true. And most oftenly, a responce is usually "Wow, those are beautiful words". I find this happens often when I'm trying to lift the spirits of those around me. Its as I know my words would never suffice, and I'm given help words chosen for me. If I try to take credit for them and add to them as they were mind, I come off as a babbling idiot that makes no sense. Otherwise the message is clear and beautiful. Ive had this gift all my life..

yet..

at the exact same time, I have a gift of using those words to find vulnerabilities in peoples are and such simple words of mine are more poison than venom. I know.. Ive heard some of the stuff that comes out of my mouth. It blows me away how I can cut so deep with few words so easily. That is my downfall.

So with every special gift, comes restraint, compassion and respect. I must work more on these. I beg this from others, but I dont always return it in kind
I used to so much, but then the world seems to get colder the more hurtful the older I get.

Such are why so many people fight one another. Words are the devils tool. silence and action are the safety lock.



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 01:50 AM
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reply to post by AQuestion
 

Do you not know the words of Paul, he said he was the greatest sinner of all. Do you believe he lied or would you not have allowed him in your church because he was a sinner?
You are probably thinking of 1 Timothy 1:15, where literally it says "the first", which people only interpret to mean, worst. It could just as easily mean that he was the first to be saved. I think people take it to mean something being influenced by the fictional version in Acts of Paul being at the stoning of Stephan.
I seriously don't think it was meant to be understood to imply that Paul was continuously sinning. If that is what you think, then I would have to say that you have a very distorted view of Christianity where people are sinning in the nature of the lost but are somehow magically saved anyway without benefit of any sort of conversion.

. . . using cuss words is not sin . . .
Are you in the habit of pronouncing what was formerly considered sin to now be OK?

. . . and you drive people away from the hope they are to have.
Which is what hope, exactly? That they can go to heaven while in an unconverted sinful state? That would be a false hope that would be better cast aside, I think. Maybe you are concerned with numbers rather than actual results, which will be determined on the Day of Judgment, or is that something else you have cast to the wayside?
edit on 19-7-2012 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 06:30 AM
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Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


And btw MILLIONS of Catholic and Protestant babies are baptized yearly without first being believers. When I chose to be baptized in 2008 my mother tried to talk me out of it saying I was baptized as a baby.

And, do you know why they are baptized at birth, or as shortly afterward as possible?

Because the RCC (and also the CofE) taught this horrendous dogma that unless a baby was baptized before they died, they would go to purgatory forever...or worse, to hell. So the rush to get them baptized. I wrote an entire novel around this precept.... They believed in the "Elect" and the "Damned", and many, many families paid "muy dinero" to have those priests and their successors pray daily for years and years and years......

people who had lost babies before baptism were terrified that their precious offspring were excluded from heaven forever. They often paid priests to "pray" on behalf of the deceased infant. One could purchase prayer 'in perpetuity' for enough money. They would agree to "pray every day to the saints for your baby to be admitted to heaven" if.....If the parishioner had enough money to buy same.

It was a scam.
edit on 18-7-2012 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)

Edit to repeat the point. For effect.
edit on 18-7-2012 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)
it may be important to note that this was not "biblical". they were corrupt. that doesn't mean that all christians follow this awful line of thinking.



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 08:01 AM
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reply to post by solongandgoodnight
 



it may be important to note that this was not "biblical". they were corrupt. that doesn't mean that all christians follow this awful line of thinking.

Correct, it wasn't "Biblical", but at the time many of those vicitmized parishioners didn't KNOW THAT. And yes, you are correct that not all do. But all are equally subject to such corrupted interpretations, in particular those who follow what their leaders say without doing any homework (so to speak).

That's why "critical thinking" is so very important .... in making decisions. Sadly, it is true that not everyone has developed the capacity to do so, nor has the interest in learning to. It makes such a vital difference in quality of life!



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 08:10 AM
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reply to post by isaac7777
 


If you had read his whole post, he also said that baptism has nothing to do with salvation.

I did read his whole post. I generally read everyone's posts in their entirety, although I admit some of the walls of copy/pasted text I skip. Especially the ones with 15 hours worth of video links. (and lonewolf is not one of those
)

But the heartfelt words, the author's actual voice, I read. I read all of it.

Nevertheless, yes, I know he said its a symbol. Some people don't think that way, however. It's a subjective thing.



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 08:16 AM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


You're actually more right than you realize.

my turn to Sigh. All of you seem to think that I'm not versed in history and comparative world religions, that I'm spewing idealistic nonsense off the top of my romantic sentimental head. Not so.

But thanks for the sort of underhanded acknowledgment. I know more about what I talk about than you realize, I guess.
Still, at least we have a dialogue. That's a beginning.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


I am aware that baptism does not save you. My point is that many, many people BELIEVE that it does. Because that's what some priest or group of clerics told them. Hope you get my meaning. Kudos for dispelling myths, though.





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