I am trying to put closure on an incident that happened a few years ago. I have not found any answe

Pretty cool/weird topic.

These were hardcore special force units?
I have to agree with the poster who suggested an experiment with super-soldier enhancement drugs has gone awry.

Has any follow-up been conducted as to communications between lost, and next of kin?

I think the fatigues used by the guys will help...mission patch?

Originally posted by liejunkie01
reply to post by 138abstract

 

I don't think that you will get an answer.

Bernard Schnitzel rings a bell.

I thought htis from the get go, but that is why I said I will save my comments for later.

It has classic BS wriiten all over it. Even with his friend joining in on his thread.

LOL...I remember ol' Bernie Schnitzel...from an old ATS Roswell thread, wasn't it?

LISTEN...

...For the sake of discussion, let's put Bernie on the backburner for a moment and assume something really happened along the lines that the O.P. draws for us...

Before we start thinking WAAAAY outside the box...and start pointing fingers at Bigfoot/Yeti, aliens or secret CIA drug testing on Special Ops personnel...

...shouldn't we consider a very simple explanation first?

Perhaps the O.P. and his 'rescue team' were actually the one's being subjected to a military 'what if' training scenario...and:

1.) This group of 20 missing soldiers never really existed.

2.) The evidence found by the O.P. and his team was manufactured and planted by the military to observe their performance and reaction to a 'beyond belief' rescue scenario

3.) This might be a very believable trainning mission, designed to observe soldiers' physical and psychological reactions to situations outside their normal frame of reference.

reply to post by johngrissom


I can assure you we used the term rucksack in Army Special Forces and Florida National Guard, as I am a veteran of 12 years service between the two. I'll agree on the rest. I have radio, infantry and heavy anti-armor MOS's...

So what are you guys calling rucksacks these days?

You all are way off the mark on this. When I heard the additional explanation, it sent shivers down my spine. I am nowhere near an expert on Native lore; however, native buddies of mine and I would talk about a creature which was very real to them. Some would not even speak its name as they TRUELY fear this thing. It can shape shift and imitates human voice. It also has the ability to emite various whistle like tones. I myself will not mention this thing anymore as I'm kinda creeped out by talking about it. The ONLY reason I am responding to this post is out of respect for CrazyDude and his lost buddies. I will not speak of this thing from now on...or ever! It is a demon!

Kushtaka are mythical creatures found in the stories of the Tlingit and Tsimshian Indians of Southeastern Alaska. Loosely translated, kushtaka means, "land otter man".

They are similar to the Nat'ina of the Dan'aina Indians of South Central Alaska, and the Urayuli of the Eskimos in Northern Alaska.

Physically, kushtaka are shape-shifters capable of assuming either human form or the form of an otter. In some accounts, a kushtaka is able to assume the form of any species of otter; in others, only one. Accounts of their behaviour seem to conflict with one another. In some stories, kushtaka are cruel creatures who take delight in tricking poor Tlingit sailors to their deaths. In others, they are friendly and helpful, frequently saving the lost from death by freezing. In many stories, the kushtaka save the lost individual by distracting them with curiously otter-like illusions of their family and friends as they transform their subject into a fellow kushtaka, thus allowing him to survive in the cold. Naturally, this is counted a mixed blessing. However, kushtaka legends are not always pleasant. In some legends it is said the kushtaka will imitate the cries of a baby or the screams of a woman to lure victims to the river. Once there, the kushtaka either kills the person and tears them to shreds or will turn them into another kushtaka.

Legends have it kushtaka can be warded off through copper, urine, and in some stories fire.

Since the kushtaka mainly preys on small children, it has been thought by some that it was used by Tlingit mothers to keep their children from wandering close to the ocean by themselves.

It is also said that the kushtaka emit a high pitched, three part whistle in the pattern of low-high-low.

Originally posted by Siberbat
You all are way off the mark on this. When I heard the additional explanation, it sent shivers down my spine. I am nowhere near an expert on Native lore; however, native buddies of mine and I would talk about a creature which was very real to them. Some would not even speak its name as they TRUELY fear this thing. It can shape shift and imitates human voice. It also has the ability to emite various whistle like tones. I myself will not mention this thing anymore as I'm kinda creeped out by talking about it. The ONLY reason I am responding to this post is out of respect for CrazyDude and his lost buddies. I will not speak of this thing from now on...or ever! It is a demon!

Kushtaka are mythical creatures found in the stories of the Tlingit and Tsimshian Indians of Southeastern Alaska. Loosely translated, kushtaka means, "land otter man".

They are similar to the Nat'ina of the Dan'aina Indians of South Central Alaska, and the Urayuli of the Eskimos in Northern Alaska.

Physically, kushtaka are shape-shifters capable of assuming either human form or the form of an otter. In some accounts, a kushtaka is able to assume the form of any species of otter; in others, only one. Accounts of their behaviour seem to conflict with one another. In some stories, kushtaka are cruel creatures who take delight in tricking poor Tlingit sailors to their deaths. In others, they are friendly and helpful, frequently saving the lost from death by freezing. In many stories, the kushtaka save the lost individual by distracting them with curiously otter-like illusions of their family and friends as they transform their subject into a fellow kushtaka, thus allowing him to survive in the cold. Naturally, this is counted a mixed blessing. However, kushtaka legends are not always pleasant. In some legends it is said the kushtaka will imitate the cries of a baby or the screams of a woman to lure victims to the river. Once there, the kushtaka either kills the person and tears them to shreds or will turn them into another kushtaka.

Legends have it kushtaka can be warded off through copper, urine, and in some stories fire.

Since the kushtaka mainly preys on small children, it has been thought by some that it was used by Tlingit mothers to keep their children from wandering close to the ocean by themselves.

It is also said that the kushtaka emit a high pitched, three part whistle in the pattern of low-high-low.

I LIKE otters...Otters are cute : )

Originally posted by mardukiscoming
reply to post by crazydude

 

From one former military man to another.Be very careful what you reveal,as far as the mission logs go.You swore an oath when you volunteered to serve your country,and as you said your self,that everything went "classified",you need to think hard before revealing material of that nature.Ultimately it is your decision,but remember this,"Discretion is the better part of valor."

You mean "Discretion is the best way to take a civilian population to hell, quietly".
I had to fix that.

reply to post by johngrissom


Arg, you scared off off our play-thing. Why did you have to go do that?
We were having so much fun with this story too.

Now he'll have to start all over with a different account and another secondary account for the fake buddy to chime in.

grrr.



Please learn to recognize that any time anyone tells any story around here, with zero pictures, zero video, and zero supporting evidence, that many of us going along with the story are well aware that it's entirely fabricated hoo-hah, but, we're humoring the story-teller just like adults humor children when they tell fantastic impossible stories that don't stand up to the slightest scrutiny.

Suffice to say, you've probably scared all the fun off with your big hairy military talk barging in to spoil our fun with what was turning out to be a rather delightful distraction to see where the OP took his little fantasy next.

Since I'm seeing some flak about me being CrazyDudes "buddy" I just wanted to chime in again. I don't know this guy. I've never met him. I saw his post on another website and I know the people there wouldn't have nearly as much experience with this sort of thing as the people at ATS. I frequent this site a lot but I've never had a reason to create an account because I never had anything to say. He had a story and sounded sincere enough so I suggested he try posting here.

I don't see why it's such a big deal that he has a story to tell and is looking for other people's input on it. It doesn't hurt anyone here by reading his post. If they want to offer an opinion great, if not there's no harm done to them. I don't see CrazyDude getting fame and glory from one little thread on a conspiracy website, why do we always have to dismiss everyone as attention seekers?

If me creating an account and responding to this thread has hurt his credibility I really do apologize, I just wanted to offer my two cents on the issue.

The OP is the one with the story and was there, so also the facts.

Just giving a few vague bits of info (despite his placement to know much more) can only lead to a wide range of speculation, which is what has happened.

TO THE O.P.
You have vanished from your own thread after page 1. WHY?

You come to us at ATS claiming to be sincere, seeking help and closure...and, yet, you disgorge just a few pieces of evidence (admitting you have much more)...and then you leave.

Help is a 2-way street, my friend. If you're honestly looking for answers, you've come to the right place...BUT you have to share ALL you know...if you truly wish us to assimilate all available evidence and help provide you with the answers and the closure you claim that you so desperately need.

You're anonymous here; an avatar and a name. Put your fears aside, and your evidence where your mouth is.
We can help, if you don't hold back...and abandon us (as it appears you have).

Just goes to show that if you want to fake being a military man that you need to actually be one. That way when a real military man reads your story it'll receive some credibility instead of dismissal.

But I'll give the OP credit. I'm not a military man, so it was fun for a while to read. We all like a good story. I was thinking they hallucinated, but wasn't sure what caused it. Was fun.

This OP post sounds like the script straight out of the newly released movie that has just come out called,
"Alien Origin." They were all Spec Ops too and they didn't face a chance.

reply to post by crazydude


I apologize if I seemed dismissive outright. It's only because I heard a similar story and that was my initial reaction. But, today, I thought about you and your story for a while and if it's true, that's scary. I would hate to be in that situation with all those unanswered questions. That would be tormenting.

So, I'm sorry you went through it.

Originally posted by crazydude
reply to post by caladonea

 

Yes, I remember the mission reports. I do not want to disclose them because they take away from my actual reason for posting. However, what freaked us out is the fact that they were coherent, concise, detailed, and quite insane and implausible. But they do not offer any real clues as to what happened. Someone was kind enough to alert me of the Dasytoliv (maybe spelled incorrectly) Ski Team in 1959. That was the type of information I was looking for. Any other information I have just begs more unanswered questions. [/quote
If u are not willing to disclose the mission then u leave out a lot of variables.
]

It looks like the MIB struck again.

Bashed in the door and abducted him at the computer desk.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by crazydude

 

Were you briefed on their moods, or did you know some of the men? If they initially scattered in different directions, where did the tracks lead, or did they just disappear shortly? I'd expect a recovery team could follow tracks for a considerable distance, so did they just continue in the same directions or did they eventually turn back toward camp, or towards one another? There is absolutely nothing I can think of that could scare a group of trained and armed men to abandon a camp in totally different directions without any gear or weapons, and not leave the camp disturbed in any way? I mean, even a zombie, or UFO, or werewolf would have left some traces in the camp. Also nothing I can think of that would make them just run in all directions without them shortly teaming back up to recover their camp.

What about strange noises? Something that could spook them?

I'm only speculating. Sound leaves no physical evidence.

reply to post by mr-lizard


found something interesting on the Ural Mountain range prior to the 1959 incident!
:www.wentz.net...
apparently there was a nuclear bomb and reactor facility near the Urals and in 1957 a nuclear storage container blew up contaminating an area the size of New Jersey with plutonium and strontium...

this has been an interesting thread, thanks, next time wait a little longer before you chime in on your second ats account.

Explanation: S&F!

If this is a hoax it is far MORE elaborate and far less tantalizing than one of 'Banned Member' "Bernard's" Hoaxes.


Time frame of When: March 2008 befor or during spring equinox in Northern hemisphere.

Originally posted by crazydude
reply to post by speculativeoptimist

 

This incident was around March '08. Have you heard anything about stationary aircraft sending SOS signals?

Area - Where: In the vicinity of Wrangell-St. Elias Alaska USA.

Originally posted by crazydude
reply to post by seagull

 

It was in the vicinity of Wrangell-St. Elias NP. I am not comfortable disclosing anything more specific. I just wanted to see if others had heard these types of stories.


[Edit by OL: Redacted as unrequired information]

What: 20 soldiers MIA from training mission.

Originally posted by crazydude
[Edited by OL to redact all unrequired info and to bold and underline for clarity]
I just finished 5 years service with a military force. During my second year of service they selected 20 hardcore guys for special combat and recon training in the Yukon. About 10 days later we got word the team was not contacting their support element. I was a member of the recovery team that deployed 2 days later. We found human tracks leading in all different directions away from the basecamp but everything was intact (my friend still claims he found a set of barefoot human tracks). It was as if they all just booked into the Yukon one day and decided to not come back. Nothing was missing. We were unable to acknowledge this mission during my time in the service. Everything went classified. We found personal effects (like winter jackets, boots, ruck-sacks, compasses, and hygenic items you want in the field!). We went through a mission log that scared the # out of me. I asked my superior what happened a few months later and he just replied, "we don't know but we think something scared them."

Personal Discclosure: I found some interesting data that may explain somethings.


I found a censored area, within the claimed patrol distances covered as claimed by the OP, on Google Earth [app] near the Area detailed by the OP!

Originally posted by crazydude
[Edited by OL to Redact all unrequired info]
1.) The team reported patrols over 250 km's a day. That's close to 160 miles. Anyone familiar with Yukon territory knows that's not possible in a week, well rested. Could a professional soldier continue to make errors of over 130-140 miles over and over again for days? Could hypothermia, fatigue, severe dehydration, or medical malady cause such disorientation and still allow someone to make it back to base-camp?- they also reported that they were being followed but found no tracks (it is entirely possible fatigue, dehydration, and severe cold/wind can cause these kinds of symptoms. I know a guy that stopped to tie his shoelace in broad daylight under these conditions and was lost but found alive the next morning).

Note that the area isn't just censor screened from an aerial view, but is censored all the way to the ground and extends across the Canadian border as well.

Now remember that Stationary Aircraft that was signalling the troops [claimed by the OPer]?

Originally posted by crazydude
[Edited by OL to Redact all unrequired info]

2.) They reported numerous SOS signals from nearby stationary aircraft. There is no doubt in my mind the military has designed aircraft that can appear to hover. But do/why signal ground troops?

McDonnell Douglas AV-8B Harrier II: Specifications .28AV-8B Harrier II Plus.29 [wiki]





Continued next post ...

reply to post by OmegaLogos


Explanation: Continued from previous post ...

General characteristics

Crew: 1 pilot
Length: 46 ft 4 in (14.12 m)
Wingspan: 30 ft 4 in (9.25 m)
Height: 11 ft 8 in (3.55 m)
Wing area: 243.4 ft² (22.61 m²)
Airfoil: supercritical airfoil
Empty weight: 13,968 lb (6,340 kg)
Loaded weight: 22,950 lb (10,410 kg)
Max. takeoff weight:

Rolling: 31,000 lb (14,100 kg)
Vertical: 20,755 lb (9,415 kg)
Powerplant: 1 × Rolls-Royce F402-RR-408 (Mk 107) vectored-thrust turbofan, 23,500 lbf (105 kN)
Performance

Maximum speed: Mach 1.0 (585 knots, 673 mph, 1,083 km/h)
Range: 1,200 nmi (1,400 mi, 2,200 km)
Combat radius: 300 nmi (350 mi, 556 km)
Ferry range: 1,800 nmi (2,100 mi, 3,300 km)
Rate of climb: 14,700 ft/min (4,485 m/min)
Wing loading: 94.29 lb/ft² (460.4 kg/m²)

Armament

Guns: 1× General Dynamics GAU-12 Equalizer 25 mm (0.984 in) 5-barreled gatling cannon mounted under-fuselage in the left pod, with 300 rounds of ammunition in the right pod

Hardpoints: 6× under-wing pylon stations holding up to 13,200 lb (5,988 kg) of payload:
Rockets:

4× LAU-5003 rocket pods (each with 19× CRV7 70 mm rockets)
Missiles:

Air-to-air missiles:
4× AIM-9 Sidewinder or similar-sized infrared-guided missiles
6× AIM-120 AMRAAM (on radar equipped AV-8B Plus variants)
Air-to-surface missiles:
6× AGM-65 Maverick; or
2× AGM-84 Harpoon; or
2× AGM-88 HARM

Bombs:

CBU-100 cluster bombs (CBUs)
Mark 80 series of unguided bombs (including 3 kg and 14 kg practice bombs)
Paveway series of laser-guided bombs (LGBs)
Joint Direct Attack Munitions (GBU-38, GBU-32, GBU-54)
Mark 77 napalm canisters
Others:
up to 4× 300/330/370 US Gallon drop tanks (pylon stations No. 2, 3, 4 & 5 are wet plumbed)
Intrepid Tiger II electronic jammer.

Avionics [Note: Edited by OL to bold and underline something that seemed strange.]

Raytheon APG-65 radar
AN/AAQ-28V LITENING targeting pod (on radar-equipped AV-8B Plus variants)
Special note: An upgrade program is currently fitting airframes with wiring and software to employ MIL-STD-1760 bus-based smart weapons, such as Joint Direct Attack Munitions.

McDonnell Douglas AV-8B Harrier II: Operational history [wiki]

To prepare for USMC service, the AV-8B underwent the standard rigorous evaluations. In the operational evaluation (OPEVAL), lasting from 31 August 1984 to 30 March 1985, four pilots and a group of maintenance and support personnel put the aircraft under combat type conditions. The aircraft was graded against measures such as the ability to meet its mission requirements for navigating, acquiring targets, delivering weapons, and evading and surviving enemy actions, all at the specified range and payload performance. The first phase of OPEVAL, running until 1 February 1985, required the AV-8B to fly close and deep air support missions in concert with other close air support aircraft, as well as flying battlefield interdiction and armed reconnaissance missions. Missions were flown from military installations at Marine Corps Base Camp Pendleton and Naval Air Weapons Station China Lake (both located in California), Canadian Forces Base Cold Lake (Canada) and MCAS Yuma (Arizona). The second phase, which took place at MCAS Yuma from 25 February to 8 March, required the AV-8B to perform fighter escort, combat air patrol, and deck-launched intercept missions. The evaluation identified some remaining shortfalls in the design that were subsequently rectified; nevertheless, OPEVAL was deemed successful. The AV-8B Harrier II reached initial operating capability (IOC) in August 1985 with USMC squadron VMA-331.

When used, the LITENING II targeting pod achieved greater than 75 percent kill effectiveness on targets.[84] In a single sortie from USS Bonhomme Richard, a wave of Harriers inflicted heavy damage on a Republican Guard tank battalion in advance of a major ground assault on Al Kut. Harriers regularly operated in close support roles for friendly tanks, usually with one carrying a LITENING pod. Despite the Harrier's high marks, the limited amount of time that each aircraft could remain on station, around 15–20 minutes, led to some calls from within the USMC for AC-130 gunships to be procured; the AC-130 could loiter for six hours, and had a heavier close air support capability than the AV-8B.

LITENING targeting pod: LITENING G4 [wiki]

LITENING G4, which began to be delivered to U.S. forces in 2008, added new sensors for improved target identification and other advanced target recognition and identification features.

Personal Disclosure: Maybe it was a test of the new LITENING G4 in cold weather climates agaisn't SPECOP's ???