America Is Terminal. How Long Does It Have Left?

I agree that capitalism is the root of the problem. I have considered national socialism, but I think dropping the nationalism would be key as well. Look at America now...Too many "patriots" and not enough people who think for themselves. Parts of nationalism are good, but the whole thing about never criticizing your country is bs, and does nothing but ignore problems. Socialism, which Marx said was the first stage of communism, would work as an intermediary into communism, but not the communism that people are used to seeing from countries like NK.

True communism eliminates all centralized power, and it theoretically is not possible for one class to oppress another. But getting to that stage does require some form of centralization, which is what socialism is. In the countries with communist governments, they do not make it past this point. They are not communist when judging by what communism was defined to be by its creators. This is why it pisses me off when people say how bad communism is...They don't even know what it is, lol, so how can they say it is bad?

Originally posted by Germanicus

Originally posted by Partygirl
Australia will not survive the wrath in better shape than the USA, friend. It will be a struggle of similar conditions for many of us in both places. Do not make the mistake of thinking safe havens will persist longer than the odds say they can.

Australia was the only Western Nation to get through the last GFC without being hurt too bad. It was because of our friendship with China. Australia needs to form an alliance with the BRICS. Australia and China could dominate this part of the world. We already do. Australia and the BRICS would be unstoppable.

Our economy is in great shape. We will be in surplus by next year accrding to our recent budget. Our deficit is modest. We are geographically positioned perfectly to trade with the BRICS nations as and we already do. America offers nothing. We need to cut ties. All our alliance with America does is make us a target in this region and it risks our economy. We should form an official alliance with the BRICS and enter join the BRICS Bank. The IMF is a scam. We need to invest in the BRICS.

edit on 23-5-2012 by Germanicus because: (no reason given)

I don't think you can. Australia, like Canada and New Zealand (and any other UK colony) are not countries. Therefore your banking system is tied to the UK and as such, the IMF, the BIS and the FED. When the US or Europe tanks, the only option is secession which will turn your colony into a country. The monarchy will bitch and moan and try and make land lease deals, your politicians just have to smart enough ignore them, they'll be broke. If your economy is strong enough and your colony has become a country, BRICS may welcome you.

Cheers - Dave

Originally posted by intrptr

Question you got to ask yourselves... will America go quietly into that good night or go out with a defiant bang, taking the rest of the world with it?

Cool down, the world is not gonna end with America or any country on that matter (except the dumbo Israel).

Lets just say - America will sleep with nightmares. The world is not gonna help you guys at all. We have our own a** to take care. Me no worry you go down, me see you in moving picture box only.

With the attitude that American have, it serve them right.....soon.
(hehe I love playing the fearmonger)

We are the energy capital of the world. We have more oil, coal and natural gas than any other country. It is easy to get and easy to sell. Do not say we are done yet because the best is yet to come. Well, planned, well executed, and we played the world just like a great game of chess. What you see is what powers to be want you to see.

Originally posted by Malcher

Originally posted by NullVoid

Originally posted by Malcher
Hell, for that matter, i would not know how to create a living creature who was not capitalist. At the same time i would build that creature to be kind, compassionate, considerate...not just to love himself, but to love all creatures of the Earth...land and sea.

Lets just say - Ants

It is possible but there are extenuating circumstances. For one, they are born into a colony, the colony can be very destructive and harmful to other creatures. Perhaps one could argue the colony is in actuality one singular unit.

Besides humans, and to a lesser extent, other animals show more variation in appearance and intelligence even amongst the same species.

I think in order for us to be like ants we would have to all look like each other and be of nearly exact similar intelligence otherwise it just is not possible.

Besides, from a young age humans have a desire to be noticed, to be recognized - "hey...look at me...look at me". I see nothing wrong with that at all and really is just showing that we are all different. IF...the human brain was transplanted with an ant brain i would say we can be like ants and yet we would still all look different so on that fact alone the reduced brain power would just lead to much worse.

edit on 23-5-2012 by Malcher because: (no reason given)

Yes I do have problem matching socialism with "the need to advance"/competitive improvement. Of all, I think I would resort to dual or triple competing national company, just for the improvement/advance. Think 2 competing ants group in a single colony, I bet the other group is building conveyor belts!

I think I need Germanicus help since hes kinda promoting socialism, he might have the solution.
I still believe socialism/communist is the way to go.

National Socialism, Communism ..... . This thread is going to extremes.

We had the freest system in the world and we slowly let it get chipped away by turning our head to violations of our constitution(rules for the government to follow).
We don't need Hitler's ideology or China's to fix things. The economy is screwed up because we gave control of our country's currency to private banking corporations (against the constitution). Who in turn bought their way into the political system to effectively rob us blind and whittle away farther at the rules that govern the government. It is easier to cheat when you can change the rule mid game.

We just need to force the government to go back to following the rules that were placed on them to protect us from the exact things that are happening today.

Socialism and communism sound real good on paper, but they are flawed systems that end in the same result, Oligarchs running the show.

The fiat currency will collapse. We will have to legalize competing currencies and role over most politicians to fix things.

Politicians are meant to be in their role to represent the people, not the highest bidder. Our government has cancer that needs to be irradiated to be able to start the healing process.

Originally posted by rgzing
We are the energy capital of the world. We have more oil, coal and natural gas than any other country. It is easy to get and easy to sell. Do not say we are done yet because the best is yet to come. Well, planned, well executed, and we played the world just like a great game of chess. What you see is what powers to be want you to see.

err dont you mean its the other way ?

We have more oil, coal and natural gas than any other country.
Dare to get out from Iraq ?

It is easy to get and easy to sell.
USA selling oil ? Hmmm, you must be new, welcome to earth.

Do not say we are done yet because the best is yet to come.
We DO wait the best part - when "we" are right.

Well, planned, well executed
Yes, it is well planned. We can see from this chart

What you see is what powers to be want you to see.
Yep, just switch on the TV.
-------------------------------------------------------

Just to add before I leave this thread, Vote Ron Paul to be safe.

reply to post by NullVoid

The world is not gonna help you guys at all.

Got that right. I don't blame them. After the democracy we been spreading for the last 100 years. What the rest of the world doesn't understand is the sheer greed and selfishness of the people at the top. I don't mean your average American, although we stand by and pay our tax and look the other way, but those greedy self centered arrogant people at the top of Big Government, Bug Business and Military that don't really care about anyone but themselves. The world has no idea how serious they will can will be when the shehits their fan.

Everyone is talking about how America will silently die away while biting at its own wounds... they really really don't understand.

reply to post by Germanicus


There is light at the end of the tunnel.
There is bowspace between the bergs.
The dead reckoning lies ahead with this:

Correct Trade Imbalances Immediately.
By all means necessary.Starting Tomorrow 5/24/2012
Even out the Global Economic Playing Field.
Phase out the Bush Tax Cuts Completely within a 3 year timeline.
Elimimate the Caps on Social Security Tax.
Impose and Enforce Derivatives Exposure Ratios held by The Banks.
Require Full Transparancy Regarding Citizens United Contributions.
Wipe out all Foreign and Domestic Special Interest Group Funding Over $10,000 per Annum.
Require all Members of Congress to Accept Salary Freeze Indefinately and Effective Immediately.
Require all Members of Congress to receive the same Medical Packages available
to ALL Common Citizens/Taxpayers of The United States of America now and pending under Obamacare.
Create Tax Credits for American Businesses that hire American Citizens, and levy taxes
on businesses that outsource American jobs and avoid taxes through loopholes.
Create a National Aquaculture Program to increase Marine Fish Genetic Populations and Food Supply.
Re-Instate The Glass-Steagall Act.
Require all Foreign Workers/Nationals to Register and pay taxes to support the infrastructures that we share.
Schedule a Serious Meeting in The Gazebo at the center of The Pentagon to Examine where the
Missing Trillions have went.

Enforce within full extent of the law, The Act of Double Voting/Voting in Absence by Members
of Congress. This Elementary and Childish act Should be Discouraged and Prohibited.

Remove Second/Third Party Banking Interests which have sprung up in the United States Government
Student Loan System. These Interests are skimming income from Uncle Sam and enslaving
future generations of American Citizens Simultaneously. It is a Disgrace and Shameful.
Investigate Western Union and all the Money that disappears abroad.

Best Regards, Wildmanimal

Originally posted by intrptr
reply to post by NullVoid

 

The world is not gonna help you guys at all.

Got that right. I don't blame them. After the democracy we been spreading for the last 100 years. What the rest of the world doesn't understand is the sheer greed and selfishness of the people at the top. I don't mean your average American, although we stand by and pay our tax and look the other way, but those greedy self centered arrogant people at the top of Big Government, Bug Business and Military that don't really care about anyone but themselves. The world has no idea how serious they will can will be when the shehits their fan.

Everyone is talking about how America will silently die away while biting at its own wounds... they really really don't understand.

The rest of the world doesnt understand ? Really ?
We are clear and understood it long long long time ago, we complied and play along.

Its more like the Americans that do not aware, after all "America is the world!".

In the end you will get something like Greece, Americans will realize it too late. You guys will want revolution/war/etc. Well, problem is this - who is the enemy ?

Are you suggesting this ? - USA attacking China ? or what ? Where will the anger directed ? Thats why terminal is the word. You stop.

Actually I'm to point of fed up explaining these stuff to fellow American ATS.
It doesnt matter democrat or republican win, USA still lose.

reply to post by Wildmanimal


Yes, nice but as we all should be aware, China already have direct access to the coffer.
But what you give is pretty good, but maybe for 1 term only ?

reply to post by NullVoid

I don't know what you are raving about...
I was agreeing with you.

reply to post by Germanicus


MadMax coming to america,,

i've been waiting for this all my life......

unfortunately..

reply to post by NullVoid


At this rate, China will have direct access to its coffin.
As there will be no coffer down the road a ways.

With all due respect to the Dragon,
We made it roar and shine.
For those who have forgotten,
We fended its wings of Russia and Japan.

I do not forget so easily.


As Far as Terms, I'll Beholden for Three

reply to post by Starwise
thank you for asking that question

Originally posted by Germanicus

Originally posted by Partygirl
Australia will not survive the wrath in better shape than the USA, friend. It will be a struggle of similar conditions for many of us in both places. Do not make the mistake of thinking safe havens will persist longer than the odds say they can.

Australia was the only Western Nation to get through the last GFC without being hurt too bad. It was because of our friendship with China. Australia needs to form an alliance with the BRICS. Australia and China could dominate this part of the world. We already do. Australia and the BRICS would be unstoppable.

Our economy is in great shape. We will be in surplus by next year accrding to our recent budget. Our deficit is modest. We are geographically positioned perfectly to trade with the BRICS nations as and we already do. America offers nothing. We need to cut ties. All our alliance with America does is make us a target in this region and it risks our economy. We should form an official alliance with the BRICS and enter join the BRICS Bank. The IMF is a scam. We need to invest in the BRICS.

edit on 23-5-2012 by Germanicus because: (no reason given)

i'm not the most educated on this issue but i tend to agree with you. australia seems to be in a position to sit in the driver's seat.....maybe cutting ties with us here in the states would be good for them. all i know is that i'm about ready to pull my hair out over here if everyone doesn't stop and pull there head out for at least a few brief seconds.

i'm not the most educated on this issue but i tend to agree with you. australia seems to be in a position to sit in the driver's seat.....maybe cutting ties with us here in the states would be good for them. all i know is that i'm about ready to pull my hair out over here if everyone doesn't stop and pull there head out for at least a few brief seconds.

me neither mate, but if this is anything to go by, i think we're okay =)

reply to post by Germanicus


China does not put its troops in other countries? ever heard of Tibet? don't look for it on modern maps, its been wiped out completely, only Tibet's capital city still exists, its called Lhasa.

The U.S. has been going under since about 20 years back - its the people leading, and inevitably corrupting the fabric of the U.S. Wars we dont need to fight, corrupt social and judicial systems, and a whole list of secrets that we dont even know yet. But in the upcoming election, if Obama or Romney gets elected, then I and a whole lot of people can kiss the nations freedom goodbye with the NDAA, and all the lovely Internet censorship bills out there. If Paul was elected on the other hand, I can see a -delay- in the terminal status of America, but not a fix.


America - An animal that is bleeding out, but bandaging the wrong places.

reply to post by Germanicus


Not to say our situation is great - far from it, but a couple of key fallacies here:

The U.S. National debt may be a big number, but our Debt to GDP ratio has leveled off and is on the brink to start a decline now. Imagine an individual with $100,000 in debt - sounds like a lot, but if that individual makes $100,000 a year and that debt is low-interest debt, its not that hard to make payments. That's where the US finds itself today - about a 1:1 ratio.

Military spending - are we really making cuts? Do those cuts matter in comparison? Our military spending in 2000 was far greater than the combined spending of the next at least 5 highest spenders. We have undergone MASSIVE inreases since, in line with the PNAC plan, implemented in 2001. We're not simply #1 in military spending, we are far and above #1.

China's economy size - remember, China has 4x as much population as the US. For an analogy again - guy down the street from you males $200k/year, but has 8 kids. 5 are going to college, 2 have upcoming weddings to pay for, and 1 has serious medical problems. The other guy has 2 kids, 1 in college, and one needs his first car. That guy makes $185,000/yr. Who is better off?
Realistically, if guy #1 (china) just goes light on food and shelter, tells the kids to skip college and get to work in the factory, maybe he is. The point is, scale matters, expenses matter, and "quality of life" may be drastically different between the two.