Did the Christians lie about Jesus Resurrection? Jesus did not die by Crucifiction!

One thing one notices in and near the Holy Lands is that the Embellished Christian nonsense story on Jesus is rejected.

Islam rejects the non-sense that Jesus is god and calls the Christians Infidels. In Islam, Jesus can't be god, but great prophet and messiah is good.

Same thing with the Jewish in Israel. Take your Bible to Israel and do some evangelist games and you get to go to jail and get deported from Israel. They so hate the merger of the Jesus story with the Babylon Harlot stories of Paganism that they call Mary the temple whore and dismiss Jesus with the same hate the Essenes had for Babylon's Whore.

So, in the Holy Land there is a universal hate of these untruths the Christians placed on Jesus via the Constantine needs for Empire and dressing up the story of Jesus with that for Nimrod/Tammuz.

There is a universal UnWelcome sign out for the nutty Christian Beliefs in the Holy Lands. But the Christians arrogance and denial keeps them in ignorance, and marks those clearly against god.


It gets worse, as the founding fathers of the US were Masons and Diests, and they also knew these same issues that get taught at the 32 and 33 degree levels and that was Jesus survived the Crucifiction, and the Bible paints a fairy tale.

The Christians deny the truths the designers of America included in the designs for America, and hence they deny both the issues of God and the founding tennants of America's Freedom.

I agree. I myself have never been to Israel, but I have Vet friends who were there, and I have heard the same thing. I also have a Rabbi friend who tells me the Talmud excludes Jesus from being a God, or even a human messiah.

Jewish Beliefs About Jesus And Jews For Jesus
For 2,000 years, Jews have rejected
the Christian idea of Jesus as messiah. Why?

Why Don’t Jews Believe In Jesus?
Muhammad was born into a culture of Moon worship who referred to this God as "Al-Ilah", (Feminine form) denoting him/her as supreme over all their other Gods. This name later became shortened to "Allah". Muhammad tried to convince the Christians and Jews that his "Allah" was the same as Yahweh, but they knew such was not the case and rejected his appeals as heresy.
It is recorded history that great ancient civilizations worshipped serpents and dragons for thousand of years, along with the Sun, before Moses and the prophets wrote the Old Testament. Ancient idols throughout the world and the ancient writings of these civilizations furnish irrefutable proof that they worshiped the Dragon, Serpents, and the Sun. These Gods were universally worshiped as symbols of wisdom. Could the God of the Bible have been a Dragon? My research says yes, this is a real possibility.
Could Christ have been warning his people that his Father was not their Father, or their Creator, and that his Father was in fact an Alien from another world?
These are all questions that need to be answered fully.

reply to post by MagnumOpus

Just like most of the world doesn't go to the guy with the Cross of Tammuz, Babylon, and Roman Empire, we'd tend to go to the guy that has heard about Spleens, knows puncture wounds to the gut area, and has the common sense not to buy into the Bible fairy tales.

There was no Cross, there was a tree.

No, "Stauros" means "stake/pole". Christ carried the CROSSBEAM called the "patibulum" in Latin. No condemned person who had been scourged could possibly carry the entire cross. The crossbeam was affixed to the stake or pole portion at the site of the crucifixion.

And the cross of Tau didn't look like a Roman cross, it looked like our capital "T".

See image:



Necklace:



Tombstone:




The Cross of Tau is the symbol of Tammuz, not the Persian/Roman cross:

The Tau cross was a symbol of the Roman God Mithras and the Greek Attis, and their forerunner Tammuz, the Sumerian solar God, the consort of the Goddess Ishtar.[citation needed]

Tammuz, like Christ, was associated with fishing and shepherding. The Tau cross takes the shape of the letter of his name, and is one of the oldest letters known. A solar god, the death and resurrection of Tammuz were celebrated every summer.

Cross of Tau ~ Wiki

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Would you mind showing me where in the bible it says anything about a crossbeam?

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Would you mind showing me where in the bible it says anything about a crossbeam?

Come on, do you think history doesn't record anywhere how Persians or Romans executed people?

Let's say it was a "tree", how did Simon of Cirene carry a tree through town for Christ?

Let's say it was the entire cross, how did Simon carry that 600-700 pound construction almost a mile from the Praetorium to Calvary

Come on man. Condemned men carried the crossbeam. That itself was between 80-135 pounds.

Humm, I wonder who carried the Sedecula?

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www.gci.org...

The victim's buttocks rested on the sedecula, a wooden piece nailed to the upright beam to support his body.

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That pretty much ruins that theme of he can't breath.


Also, ruins that idea of nails in the hands.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Come on, do you think history doesn't record anywhere how Persians or Romans executed people?

Let's say it was a "tree", how did Simon of Cirene carry a tree through town for Christ?

Let's say it was the entire cross, how did Simon carry that 600-700 pound construction almost a mile from the Praetorium to Calvary

Come on man. Condemned men carried the crossbeam. That itself was between 80-135 pounds.

Humm----you are making this up as you go along.

Do give everyone the citations on just what weight was being carried.

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en.wikipedia.org...

And as they came out, they found a man of Cyrene, Simon by name: him they compelled to bear his cross[2]
And they compelled one Simon a Cyrenian, who passed by, coming out of the country, the father of Alexander and Rufus, to bear his cross.[4]

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Originally posted by MagnumOpus

Humm, I wonder who carried the Sedecula?

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www.gci.org...

The victim's buttocks rested on the sedecula, a wooden piece nailed to the upright beam to support his body.

========


That pretty much ruins that theme of he can't breath.


Also, ruins that idea of nails in the hands.

When one of those were used a 7 inch spike was nailed through the victim's penis to keep them seated on the sedecula, there is no account that mentions that happened with either Christ or the two thieves who were executed on either side of him.

And if nails were used in the hands the wrists were also tied around the crossbeam with ropes to keep the nails from ripping through the metacarpal soft tissue.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Either way its likely he died of shock either way...

my question is....

Why do people who consider him to be God in the flesh... believe its not possible for him to survive such things if all things are possible with God...

Originally posted by MagnumOpus

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Come on, do you think history doesn't record anywhere how Persians or Romans executed people?

Let's say it was a "tree", how did Simon of Cirene carry a tree through town for Christ?

Let's say it was the entire cross, how did Simon carry that 600-700 pound construction almost a mile from the Praetorium to Calvary

Come on man. Condemned men carried the crossbeam. That itself was between 80-135 pounds.

Humm----you are making this up as you go along.

Do give everyone the citations on just what weight was being carried.

========

en.wikipedia.org...

And as they came out, they found a man of Cyrene, Simon by name: him they compelled to bear his cross[2]
And they compelled one Simon a Cyrenian, who passed by, coming out of the country, the father of Alexander and Rufus, to bear his cross.[4]

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So you're arguing for the inadequacy of the gospel accounts of His death with the gospel accounts of his death. That's like arguing that humans can't speak English while debating in English.

Got any straws left in your quiver? My post was a reductio ad absurdum if you didn't already know.

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Either way its likely he died of shock either way...

my question is....

Why do people who consider him to be God in the flesh... believe its not possible for him to survive such things if all things are possible with God...

Yes, hypovolemic shock to be precise. Hypo = blood, Volemic = volume. Extreme blood loss from the scourging hastened His death, remember Pilate marveling at how fast He had died? Pilate had Him scourged first in an attempt to invoke pity from the people. It didn't work, they still demanded Him dead.

Progress is good friend, at least you're inclined to believe it's likely He died.

Because His purpose for coming here was to die for mankind's sins. What did He call Peter when Peter tried to keep Him from that task?


"Get thee behind me SATAN, for thou art an OFFENSE unto me. For thou savorest the things of MEN and not the things of GOD."

reply to post by NOTurTypical


progress towards what might i ask?

This is nothing new... and i still believe its possible he survived. Just highly unlikely...

His death doesn't change his purpose, which was not death but life...

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

progress towards what might i ask?

This is nothing new... and i still believe its possible he survived. Just highly unlikely...

His death doesn't change his purpose, which was not death but life...

It's impossible He survived. People only attack the crucifixion because to deny the resurrection is an even greater exercise in futility that most have stopped trying altogether and instead focus on Him not dying.

Your stated words contradict with your stated beliefs friend. You've said numerous times to only believe Christ's words from the NT and to discard the rest. He consistently throughout the 4 gospels says He came to die, and to die for our sins. You're violating the law of non-contradiction.

One can see how way out in fairy tale land these Christian beliefs are. People make fun of you:

www.youtube.com...

Some fella, "they" declaired to be god, had to come to Earth, can't get anything done to correct the Pharisee, gets nailed on a tree, and then disappears off the face of the map.

Makes absolutely no sense. Anyone impressed with such a disjointed story has to be low on intelligence.

Then "they" have to violate all the world's views on god by having a false icon for whatever is the architech of the universe.

All these Christians are about is making themselves appear ignorant, and offending the world's sensibility. imho

Christian Balogna Rejects the Grinder. It is nonsense.

If the real architech of the universe even noticed Christians or Jesus, he'd have found them inferior beings of little consequence.


If there really were an all powerful god, it would just be told this is how it is going to be, and all the world would follow that. All these god Holy Rollers have is a few old words written by humans, that don't support each other, and zero proof that a human was ever god. They don't even understand that no icon can ever represent god.

History tells that all those trying to make human into god, all were declaired as evil, called Satan, and were killed over those faked up games on god. The real history of this turning humans into god is that it is rejected across time and the world. Those that keep doing the same thing and expecting a different outcome fit the definition for insanity.


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www.youtube.com...

Bill Maher lays waste to Religion

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Christians have so screwed up the story for Jesus that it has distroyed the original message. They sheep dipped the Jesus message in so much myth that only myth remains.

As folks approach 2012, the so called End Times are really the beginning of truth and the ends of the bogus stuff on religion. All the 6,000 years of religion nonsense ends, which is a new beginning based on common sense and not religion fairy tales.

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stellarhousepublishing.com...

Long ago the celebrated Dr. Bentley, in trying to dispose of Anthony Collins, had found one very fine method: convict your Freethinking opponent of fraud, ignorance, and bad scholarship, and his thesis falls to the ground. I should say rather, try to convict your opponent by this method, for some of the mud thrown is sure to stick.... By thus concentrating on mistakes of grammar or Greek, the reader is unwarily led away from the main issue which is exactly what the critic wants. Over and over again Christian controversialists have pursued this method, as if it always mattered greatly that a present tense of Greek should be the imperfect, or that a date should be conjectured as, let us say, 1702 when it ought to be 1712 in the opinion of somebody else. (27-28)

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Looks like the Talmud has lots of words to speak on the Beasts and the Idol worshipers.

Sounds like lots of Revelation is based in these details.

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www.biblebelievers.org.au...

Article II. - What the Talmud Teaches About Christians

1. IDOLATERS
Since Christians follow the teachings of that man, whom the Jews regard as a Seducer and an Idolater, and since they worship him as God, it clearly follows that they merit the name of idolater, in no way different from those among whom the Jews lived before the birth of Christ, and whom they taught should be exterminated by every possible means.

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7. NOT LIKE MEN, BUT BEASTS
In Kerithuth (6b p. 78) it says:
"The teaching of the Rabbis is: He who pours oil over a Goi, and over dead bodies is freed from punishment. This is true for an animal because it is not a man. But how can it be said that by pouring oil over a Goi one is freed from punishment, since a Goi is also a man? But this is not true, for it is written: Ye are my flock, the flock of my pasture are men (Ezechiel, XXXIV, 31). You are thus called men, but the Goim are not called men."

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Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

progress towards what might i ask?

This is nothing new... and i still believe its possible he survived. Just highly unlikely...

His death doesn't change his purpose, which was not death but life...

It's impossible He survived. People only attack the crucifixion because to deny the resurrection is an even greater exercise in futility that most have stopped trying altogether and instead focus on Him not dying.

Your stated words contradict with your stated beliefs friend. You've said numerous times to only believe Christ's words from the NT and to discard the rest. He consistently throughout the 4 gospels says He came to die, and to die for our sins. You're violating the law of non-contradiction.

edit on 6-4-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)

Where did he say "i came to die'?

He came to live... and to show us how God wants us to live.... I focus on his life not his death...



9I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

10The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

11I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.



He knew he was going to die... but only by Gods will... not his own....

What was Constaintine really up to with his Jesus theme plugged into Roman Empire methods. A book called "Constantine's Sword" tells the real message behind the cross that was never used by Christians before then.

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en.wikipedia.org...'s_Sword

The book's title refers to Constantine's transformation of the cross, which Carroll points out, was not a symbol used by Christians in the first three centuries of the Church's existence, into a symbolic sword infusing a spirit of violent intolerance into the development of Christianity.

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reply to post by Akragon

Where did he say "i came to die'?

He came to live... and to show us how God wants us to live.... I focus on his life not his death...

Sorry, i didn't see you had made this post friend.

John chapter 12 specifically verse 27.

He knew he was going to die... but only by Gods will... not his own....

Which will, the Father has many. So does Christ. But the Son always glorifies the Father by doing His will before His own.

At the last supper in Matthew Christ says His blood is the new covenant that will be shed for the many for the forgiveness of their sins.

Originally posted by MagnumOpus
Looks like the Talmud has lots of words to speak on the Beasts and the Idol worshipers.

Sounds like lots of Revelation is based in these details.

=====

www.biblebelievers.org.au...

Article II. - What the Talmud Teaches About Christians

1. IDOLATERS
Since Christians follow the teachings of that man, whom the Jews regard as a Seducer and an Idolater, and since they worship him as God, it clearly follows that they merit the name of idolater, in no way different from those among whom the Jews lived before the birth of Christ, and whom they taught should be exterminated by every possible means.

-----

7. NOT LIKE MEN, BUT BEASTS
In Kerithuth (6b p. 78) it says:
"The teaching of the Rabbis is: He who pours oil over a Goi, and over dead bodies is freed from punishment. This is true for an animal because it is not a man. But how can it be said that by pouring oil over a Goi one is freed from punishment, since a Goi is also a man? But this is not true, for it is written: Ye are my flock, the flock of my pasture are men (Ezechiel, XXXIV, 31). You are thus called men, but the Goim are not called men."

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If I be called an idolator by the Jews for worshiping Christ as God come in the flesh and the Living Savior of all mankind, then I wear that badge of honor with pride. And I will die for it.

That's prophetic,.. if the harpazo doesn't happen first.