Exclusive! First hand Witness: Trayvon Martin attacked Zimmerman Zimmerman Innocent Smoking Gun

Originally posted by rebellender
oh yeah, Z/M Z is innocent until proved guilty

Of course but there are those of us that really wish Trayvon had that same consideration.
Some of you seem way to happy to just gloss over the fact that someone else that was never proven guilty was executed that night.

reply to post by Autumnal



So what are you implying? That no one should defend themself from an attack, that they should take a beating and hope a cop will happen by and save them? Just so they can give their attacker a day in court if they survive? Some of us live in reality here, and would rather defend ourselves, than hope someone else will save us.

Some of us don't believe the BS brainwashing that tells us that we, and our communities are helpless, and need to rely on some authority figure to save us all.

Originally posted by Autumnal

Originally posted by rebellender
oh yeah, Z/M Z is innocent until proved guilty

Of course but there are those of us that really wish Trayvon had that same consideration.
Some of you seem way to happy to just gloss over the fact that someone else that was never proven guilty was executed that night.

its a matter of ones perspective is it not.

OK here you go, as loud and clear as possible.
Pay attention .....you ready ....only gonna say it once
this
is
just
for
you.

Its my own personal opinion that Zimmerman eliminated the world of an up and coming DIRT BAG.

But right away, even the president says Treyvon was a good little boy. What kind of a boy was Treyvon really?
now the world knows!!! what is also apparent is, you are the only one that seems to care,

now go tell Cybil, confer, then one at a time, let me know how they feel about my horrendous comment!!!


on the subject here is a quote from one of my favorite movies Will Penny
I will set it up for you.
Will Penny is a Fence Rider on a Ranch
He gets the job because the Richard Cranium Foreman got himself killed, the crew resents Will Penny because the Boss gave Will the job.

Will Penny (Charlton Heston Read Biography) Let a man die, right away he's "good, old Claude". How was he *before* he bucked out?

take it to 40 minutes in

Autumnal

What the hell are you talking about?
Nothing in my post even remotely has anything to do with any of your response to it.
Please explain to me what my post has to do with your response to it??????

That is why the charges are bull CRAP total bull crap.
The MSM manipulation of evidence, and the way
they tried were trying to make a race war, swaying public
opinion in a mob rule mentality..
Treyvon was on top of zimmerman
beating his head in the ground
regardless.Witnesses saw this.
Stand your ground,
I will shoot any son of a bitch
attacking me like that.

Originally posted by fbluth
reply to post by seabag

 

Yes, the original question that you ignored. If TM beat GZ for a minute and gave him all those bloody injuries with his fist and using his hands then how is that GZ blood was not found on TM's hands/under nails/hoodie sleeves?

Why did you purposely ignore that part?

And a 1/4-1/8'' abrasion on 1 knuckle is a scrape. If you think that prove that TM caused those injuries on GZ with his fist and it cause that abrasion on his knuckle, then again, why was GZ blood not around that abrasion? Or anywhere else on TM hands?

it was raining that night, one ear witness said she heard voices outside her house and she immediately thought it was strange that people would be outside talking in the "pouring" rain.
apparently it wasnt just raining it was pouring rain. I`m no expert but i would assume that the pouring rain washed away any blood.

Originally posted by Autumnal

Originally posted by rebellender
oh yeah, Z/M Z is innocent until proved guilty

Of course but there are those of us that really wish Trayvon had that same consideration.
Some of you seem way to happy to just gloss over the fact that someone else that was never proven guilty was executed that night.

EXACTLY. The Zimmerman supporters need to realize that most ppl who support TM look at it like TM was already tried, convicted and sentenced to death. TM supporters ask this question: where is the PROOF that Trayvon was guilty? Certainly there is evidence, but nothing proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

Of course, the problems are 1. both sides look at themselves as the victim who ought to be innocent until proven guilty, 2. everyone personally identifies with either GZ or TM, and 3. the outcome of all of this means major implications for each side personally. Hence, 400 pages of back and forth...

Originally posted by solarjetman
EXACTLY. The Zimmerman supporters need to realize that most ppl who support TM look at it like TM was already tried, convicted and sentenced to death. TM supporters ask this question: where is the PROOF that Trayvon was guilty?

Which is a nice thought but irrelevant as to the situation at hand.

If someone points a gun at someone else, that person does not have to wait to be shot before defending themselves.

The same goes for being physically assaulted. A person does not have to wait until they are incapable of fighting back before defending themselves.

The standard is what did both individuals perceive at themoment of the encounter that led to shots fired. They both can argue they were in imminent danger of their life because of the SYG wording. The moment either party overcame the force being used against them, thats where they are legally required to end their actions and withdraw.

One can argue Zimmerman never got that chance, and thats based on the evidence to date and his injuries.

Ignoring facts and evidence based solely on the perception Martin did not get any type of trial is a good example of why this is tried in court using laws and not in the public using personal moral opinions.

The sooner people get that through their heads the better they will understand this case.

Originally posted by Tardacus

it was raining that night, one ear witness said she heard voices outside her house and she immediately thought it was strange that people would be outside talking in the "pouring" rain.
apparently it wasnt just raining it was pouring rain. I`m no expert but i would assume that the pouring rain washed away any blood.

There was plenty of eye witnesses.
John saw treyvon on top of zimmerman
beating him up.. Lines up with zimmermans
story.. Case closed really

reply to post by Xcathdra

What do you mean it is irrelevant? For Zimmerman's trial, yes it is true that this proof of TM's guilt isn't required. But again, not everyone is asking what will fly in this court specifically, although it's important to know-- many are trying to figure out what really happened that night. It's not that people are ignoring facts and evidence, it's that the evidence simply doesn't prove TM's guilt, and since TM supporters look at TM as the victim, not GZ, this makes the proof EXTREMELY relevant for them.

I'm not trying to argue for or against GZ here, I am simply trying to analyze the psychological discrepancy of the two sides, and since basically whole lot of poo has occurred for both TM and GZ, I sympathize with both. What I think is happening is that TM supporters are retroactively giving TM the trial he deserved for peace of mind and for morality's sake. That makes both sides look at themselves as the victim, believing their respective side is innocent until proven guilty, and since the evidence is ultimately inconclusive in terms of absolute proof of anything, it makes us argue back and forth about it all day and night.

Originally posted by solarjetman
What do you mean it is irrelevant?

Just what I said.. The concpet people have that TM was not given a trial and just "executed" is not based in fact, but emotion, moral opinions and a lack of understanding (with all due respect) of how the law works. Laws are not designed to be enforced based on emotion or opinion, but the facts at hand.

To consider TM in the context of not getting a trial and being executed while at the same time continually stating we dont have all the facts is a counter argument to itself. Without the one, you cant support the other, hence the reason for evidence, witness testimnoy, application of the law and (although doubtful in my opinion) an eventual trial.

TM is not required to wait for GZ to pull the trigger before defending himself.
GZ is not required to wait until his injuries are so severe in order to defend himself.

Originally posted by solarjetman
For Zimmerman's trial, yes it is true that this proof of TM's guilt isn't required. But again, not everyone is asking what will fly in this court specifically, although it's important to know-- many are trying to figure out what really happened that night. It's not that people are ignoring facts and evidence, it's that the evidence simply doesn't prove TM's guilt, and since TM supporters look at TM as the victim, not GZ, this makes the proof EXTREMELY relevant for them.

I understand what they are saying however moral viewpoints and opinion do not trump the laws in place. If they hate GZ because of his actions and results, thats fine.. I respect that. However, ignoring the facts and laws because of their hatred for GZ and his actions are incompatible with each other.

To asume TM is the victim while, again, arguing we dont have all the facts and we dont know what happened, is once again a counter argument to itself.

Originally posted by solarjetman
I'm not trying to argue for or against GZ here, I am simply trying to analyze the psychological discrepancy of the two sides, and since basically whole lot of poo has occurred for both TM and GZ, I sympathize with both. What I think is happening is that TM supporters are retroactively giving TM the trial he deserved for peace of mind and for morality's sake. That makes both sides look at themselves as the victim, believing their respective side is innocent until proven guilty, and since the evidence is ultimately inconclusive in terms of absolute proof of anything, it makes us argue back and forth about it all day and night.

Thats the other problem.. The only psychological consideration is that of GZ and TM. Its not relevent for us to consider non players physological reasoning on why they support or dont support one side over the other. Again this is why we have laws and prosecution of the same in a court of law and not opinions being prosecuted in the court of public opinion.

People of course are entitled to their feelings and opinions. However trying to use those as a basis to view and understand this case is a demonstration in futility since they are not remotely compatible with each other.

whats up!!!! i just got back from my florida vacation! havent been able to post since the site is super annoying to work with on my phone. i have been able to view the thread a few times and it seems no one is talking about this zimmermans cozy relationship with the spd

i caught this on a local news channel while i was in florida and i'm surprised it hasnt come up in conversation here yet.

it seems zimmerman went on ride alongs with the spd months prior to trayvons killing. even days after the killing videotape shows zimmerman walking freely through the sanford police department. it seems to me to be a conflict of interest. perhaps thats why zimmerman was given 5 star treatment by the spd the day of the killing. seems zimmerman thought he was above the spd, he ripped them to pieces at a sanford city hall public meeting. so who knows, what do you guys think about this?

reply to post by conspiracy nut


He was there voluntarily for an interview that night, not under arrest. You are generally treated nicely when you cooperate and go in voluntarily, at least in my experience.

Originally posted by conspiracy nut
whats up!!!! i just got back from my florida vacation! havent been able to post since the site is super annoying to work with on my phone. i have been able to view the thread a few times and it seems no one is talking about this zimmermans cozy relationship with the spd

i caught this on a local news channel while i was in florida and i'm surprised it hasnt come up in conversation here yet.

it seems zimmerman went on ride alongs with the spd months prior to trayvons killing. even days after the killing videotape shows zimmerman walking freely through the sanford police department. it seems to me to be a conflict of interest. perhaps thats why zimmerman was given 5 star treatment by the spd the day of the killing. seems zimmerman thought he was above the spd, he ripped them to pieces at a sanford city hall public meeting. so who knows, what do you guys think about this?

I have many cop friends, ride a longs are very common
why is there a conflict of interest.
more Fantastical posting I guess.
I expect no more out of you.

seems Florida is a right popular Vacation spot for ATS posters of this thread

Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by Autumnal

 

So what are you implying? That no one should defend themself from an attack, that they should take a beating and hope a cop will happen by and save them?

Tell you what. How about you show me exactly what I wrote that leads you to believe this. I am getting tired of writing in English and having nothing but confused stupidity spat back at me. So as soon as I can understand what you see when you read my posts, we can continue. I know I sure as hell said no such thing so I am quite interested to see what you read that lead you to write this in response.

reply to post by Autumnal

Of course but there are those of us that really wish Trayvon had that same consideration. Some of you seem way to happy to just gloss over the fact that someone else that was never proven guilty was executed that night.

So tell me then, what you mean? Was zimmerman supposed to hold a mock trial while having a man on top of him beating him before he pulled the trigger to end an attack? It seems you are under the impression that zimmerman walked up to him and shot him in the face, for being black on a friday..... When in reality he was killed because he was assaulting the wrong kind of man. The armed kind of man.

Seriously though, what would you have someone do? No one needs a trial to convict someone of beating the crap out of them, the fists colliding with their head is usually evidence enough for most sane people.

reply to post by conspiracy nut


yes he did ride a long with police then proceeded to report to authorities their shocking behaviour. Not exactly cozy if you ask me.

reply to post by yeti101


But you see that is not what GZ father said his son told police,or what he saw during the re-enactment the next day on scene. And not what he told the world on Hannity is son said. He said George was beaten in the head an face for over a minute by TM. We know he had blood on his head and nose. So no, I am not saying that he faked the injuries, I am saying he sustained them during the scuffle he started when he tried to detain TM and TM started yelling and running to get away. Getting hit in the face or having you head pounded on the ground are not the only way for GZ to sustain his injuries.

So ill ask again, why is it that TM doesn't have GZ blood on his hands/nail/sleeves if he beat GZ to the point that he had all that blood on him, with his hands?

The logical explanation is that he received those injuries during the scuffle while he was trying to hold TM down and they were struggling. He has scratches on his head, consistent with a scuffle in the grass, he has a bloody nose, which could have happened several ways....while TM was trying to get away his elbow could have caught GZ nose, when they fell to the ground GZ could have hit his nose on the ground or any part of TM body. Its is not logical to believe that TM beat GZ with his fists and gave him those injuries and somehow did not get any of GZ blood on his hands/nails/hoodie sleeves. That is just a fantasy if you believe that. Its not logical, probable, or most likely even possible.

So no, I am not implying what you think I am. I am implying that those wounds on GZ would be defensive wounds given to him while TM tried to get away. They did not come from a DIRECT attack from TM. The wounds on GZ are the same type of wounds any attacker would get from a victim who fought back. GZ hands are further proof that he tried to detain and TM tried to get away. GZ has no injuries to his hands which indicates that his only line of what he claims is his defense was to pull out his gun. Which then brings up another good point.

How did GZ get his gun out of his holster while TM was sitting on his chest, beating his face, pounding his head in the ground all while TM was supposedly trying to take the gun from him? Have someone 5'11, 160lbs sit on your chest and even just pretend to beat you and see if you can get to your gun that is supposed to be in your waistband holster. No add in a few blows to the head which would have at the very least disoriented you...yet somehow you manage to get to your gun and THEN fire a DIRECT shot to TM heart STRAIGHT through?

I can go on, about why is the body 40 feet from the 'T'. Why the witness watching out her window never seen GZ roll from under TM. Like how witnesses state that GZ was on TM back with his hand holding him down after the shots. I mean it goes on and on and on. But somehow the GZ fans still want to hang onto the fantasy that GZ acted in self defense ........only If you live in fantasy land.

reply to post by Tardacus


Apparently you are wrong. Listen to the EMS audio statements to police. It was not POURING rain. AND TM hand were under his body, so how did all that blood wash away?

And ill add, your 'it washed away theory' won't hold any weight with me or a court. Wanna know why? Cuz TM had his own blood on his hands and nails. So how would you explain him having his own blood NOT washed away but somehow the rain DID wash away GZ blood?

But like I said, it was NOT pouring rain, and if you actually listen to everyone on seen that night you would know that isn't true, and had you actually read the document dump you would have known that TM had his own blood on his hands...so your theory is actually laughable.

Wanna give it second shot now that you know additional facts that were available to you but didn't want to research before you responded?

reply to post by popsmayhem


Another pops lie.

John can't identify the screamer and John did not see anyone being beat. You really need to listen to Johns statement to investigators instead of just repeating lies over and over and over. It has to be exhausting for you.

reply to post by yeti101


And now continue the story. The chief he complained about at the meeting caught on audio is the chief who Bill Lee replaced. GZ then praises the SPD under the direction of Bill Lee. Again, had any of the GZ fans even bothered to read the document dump there are emails from GZ to the SPD NW liaison where GZ praises the SPD and how much better it is under the new directions of Bill Lee.

Why didn't you continue on with all of that information? Would it be because it does indicate that GZ had a cozy relationship with the SPD. One of the officers on scene that night identified GZ in his report as NW captain and said he knew of this before that night.

If you want to claim GZ didn't have a cozy relationship then at least add all the facts. But now that we know all the facts its clear why you didn't. Had you finished with the rest of the available evidence to show that cozy relationship you'd have to admit that GZ did in fact have a cozy relationship with them.

It the same road with GZ fans, always a dead end. You guys always stop short of looking at the complete evidence, you stop at the point where it may support GZ but fail to continue forward when that same evidence points to his guilt. You all do it, its not just you.