Do you REALLY believe in alien visitors?

reply to post by Vasa Croe

And to answer your question, well simply by looking at what I wrote in my previous threads, I guess you know the answer!


200 000 galaxies in this 6 TB IR photo!! Deepest IR sky view ever taken
Kepler space telescope finds 1,091 new exoplanet candidates More and more Earth-sized planets
Current Potential Habitable Worlds - Update February 2012
From "Powers of Ten" to "The Known Universe". - Absolute vertigo.....50 years later
And above all.....
Most important discovery of humankind on its way,

PS: S&F for your interesting thread!

reply to post by Vasa Croe


think of it in ways like this then: our government invades countries to strip natural resources. i think if we had the technology we would do the same to other planets. and let's say theres some primitive (in comparison to how far we have come as a species) beings on this planet. well there's your free labor.

Here are my beliefs about intelligent ET life:

- I'm 99.9999999% sure intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe (can't be 100% sure until we actually come in some sort of contact with that life).

- I think it may be possible for that life to find its way to Earth somehow (I can't rule it out)...

- However, I personally don't feel there is enough evidence to say for sure that Earth is being visited by intelligent ETs.

reply to post by Vasa Croe


also i don't think it would be a matter of would they be able to "find" us. i think, just like with most the things that happen in the universe, it would eventually happen. it wouldn't be a question of if but a question of when.

reply to post by Vasa Croe


Here's something worth considering. You're framing everything personally by asking, 'how many continents have "you" visited, and on those continents how many countries have "you" visited, and within those countries, how many cities, and within those cities how many towns, and within those towns, how many homes?' to give a sense of a scale.

Perhaps a better way to think about the question would be to ask, "How many people in America have visited other continents? How many people in an official capacity have visited other countries? How many politicians have visited other cities?"

This is a better way to reflect on the question because if space exploration is prevalent throughout the universe (a rather big if) it would likely be done at the behest of a whole society through the alien-equivalent of something like NASA or the ESA and not by individuals (though I suppose anything's possible).

The point of doing this would probably be similar to why we as humans explore space: scientific research, threat detection, and resource management.

Now throw in the drone hypothesis.

(@5m 37s)

If we could automate the exploration of the universe, why wouldn't we? As a society we can't make informed decisions unless we understand all of the things that are going to affect our civilization as it continues to grow. So I think the drone hypothesis is probably the best explanation for UFO observations where misidentifications and new physical or astrophysical processes can be ruled out.

Originally posted by Xtraeme
reply to post by Vasa Croe

 

Here's something worth considering. You're framing everything personally by asking, 'how many continents have "you" visited, and on those continents how many countries have "you" visited, and within those countries, how many cities, and within those cities how many towns, and within those towns, how many homes?' to give a sense of a scale.

Perhaps a better way to think about the question would be to ask, "How many people in America have visited other continents? How many people in an official capacity have visited other countries? How many politicians have visited other cities?"

This is a better way to reflect on the question because if space exploration is prevalent throughout the universe (a rather big if) it would likely be done at the behest of a whole society through the alien-equivalent of something like NASA or the ESA and not by individuals (though I suppose anything's possible).

The point of doing this would probably be similar to why we as humans explore space: scientific research, threat detection, and resource management.

Now throw in the drone hypothesis.

(@5m 37s)

If we could automate the exploration of the universe, why wouldn't we? As a society we can't make informed decisions unless we understand all of the things that are going to affect our civilization as it continues to grow. So I think the drone hypothesis is probably the best explanation for UFO observations where misidentifications and new physical or astrophysical processes can be ruled out.

edit on 22-3-2012 by Xtraeme because: (no reason given)

I think it would be very reasonable to suggest a highly advanced civilization would use drone type technology to explore the universe.

The reason I put "you" in quotes was really just to give readers the suggestion of personally visiting. Even more to the point though, what does each reader on this thread know about their own street or neighborhood. Suggesting that "aliens" have scientific researchers is very likely in the case that they are intelligent life forms as we would interpret intelligence and would have such a civilization that would study science, but that would again limit the field of travelers and visitors even further. How many Earth citizens have been in space? A LOT fewer than have traveled the globe.

I consider myself fairly well educated and have traveled a good bit but would never begin to think of myself as even scraping the surface of what is to be known about the universe, let alone my own planet.

Great discussion points, and I have always like the video you linked.

Are we being visited?

I do not believe so.

I would love to be wrong, but I do not believe that there is evidence to support extraterrestrial visitation.

(I am not going to debate the existence of ET Visitation Evidence in this thread. If you want to yell at me about it, send me a u2u and direct me to whatever thread you want me to rip to shreds.)

I'd just like to point out that the odds of an ant hill visited by "people" is ultra slim, but how about the chance of that ant hill visited by a beetle, an anteater, or another swarm of ants from same scale of remoteness as your illustrations? Absolutely!

Originally posted by TinkererJim

I'd just like to point out that the odds of an ant hill visited by "people" is ultra slim, but how about the chance of that ant hill visited by a beetle, an anteater, or another swarm of ants from same scale of remoteness as your illustrations? Absolutely!

Ah....perfect. Even better than my analogy. On the same lines, would you consider a beetle or an anteater sufficiently more intelligent than the ants? As in would there be a similar comparison between an interstellar traveler and a beetle or anteater?

reply to post by Furbs


Why would you get yelled at? I believe people who stress that there's no confirmed evidence are typically brilliant and observant.

Originally posted by TinkererJim

I'd just like to point out that the odds of an ant hill visited by "people" is ultra slim, but how about the chance of that ant hill visited by a beetle, an anteater, or another swarm of ants from same scale of remoteness as your illustrations? Absolutely!

great point. so this begs the question if this so called "anteater" did come to our "ant hill" to eat or what have you don't you think it would remember said ant hill and also wouldn't the chances of it returning be much higher?

Originally posted by TinkererJim
reply to post by Furbs

 

Why would you get yelled at?

Welcome to ATS. You must be new here.

Originally posted by Bigfoot12714

Originally posted by TinkererJim

I'd just like to point out that the odds of an ant hill visited by "people" is ultra slim, but how about the chance of that ant hill visited by a beetle, an anteater, or another swarm of ants from same scale of remoteness as your illustrations? Absolutely!

great point. so this begs the question if this so called "anteater" did come to our "ant hill" to eat or what have you don't you think it would remember said ant hill and also wouldn't the chances of it returning be much higher?

In the question of an anteater in particular, yes. They frequently visit the same hills numerous times only eating a small portion of the ants and only "wrecking" a small portion of the hill so as not to wipe out its food source and to be able to return again to feed.

reply to post by Vasa Croe


Perhaps the finer point I was trying to illustrate by asking, "How many people in America have visited other continents? How many people in an official capacity have visited other countries? How many politicians have visited other cities?" may have been lost.

Humans exchange information amongst one another through conversations, books, documentaries, and other types of media which are stored in the body of the society they reside. So what one individual finds isn't forever locked purely in their own minds. It can be shared.

Moreover when new *valuable* information is discovered it tends to spread rapidly. For instance, think about what happened when the Europeans discovered the New World. It quickly became a land grab with each country scheming to send over a vessel to hoist a flag in the ground. So it appears the question that you're really asking can be phrased like so, "What is the value of discovering a world with a complex biosphere and a sentient species?" I think the question probably answers itself.

So my point is if you have a society that has something like a probe-program. Then the catalog on file would be a growing record of every planet, star, nebula, et cetera, out in the stellar grid. Planets with life would very likely be highly prized (much more so than the ant hill analogy) because from what we currently know intelligent life isn't exactly prevalent throughout the universe.

Originally posted by TinkererJim
reply to post by Furbs

 

Why would you get yelled at? I believe people who stress that there's no confirmed evidence are typically brilliant and observant.

Exactly...but that doesn't deter the ones that take YouTube and other unreliable sources as scientific fact and use solely those sources as arguments for visitation. For those, I tend to hope they read my sig line.

Originally posted by Vasa Croe

In the question of an anteater in particular, yes. They frequently visit the same hills numerous times only eating a small portion of the ants and only "wrecking" a small portion of the hill so as not to wipe out its food source and to be able to return again to feed.

Doesn't it somewhat seem like that's whats going on here on earth? the ants wouldn't understand what is really happening when an anteater comes, they would just know that they're home and lives were in jeopardy and they would defend it. if the anteater was an ET and the ants were us being snatched up little by little we would most likely do what the ants would. Defend. right? or am i just making an a** of myself here?

Originally posted by Vasa Croe

Originally posted by TinkererJim

I'd just like to point out that the odds of an ant hill visited by "people" is ultra slim, but how about the chance of that ant hill visited by a beetle, an anteater, or another swarm of ants from same scale of remoteness as your illustrations? Absolutely!

Ah....perfect. Even better than my analogy. On the same lines, would you consider a beetle or an anteater sufficiently more intelligent than the ants? As in would there be a similar comparison between an interstellar traveler and a beetle or anteater?

Well, to a layman, they might be deemed the same, but to scientists, the gap between them could be interstellar...

Originally posted by Vasa Croe

Scenario:

So....on this general theme, how many continents have "you" visited, and on those continents how many countries have "you" visited, and within those countries, how many cities, and within those cities how many towns, and within those towns, how many homes? Now consider the universe as our Earth, the countries as the galaxies, the towns as the solar systems, the homes as the planets and finally an ant farm in the yard of said home. Now I know the scale comparison is WAY off, but that is about how significant we are in the universe.....so, unless "you" have visited a number of ant hills in many different countries and know where they all are then how can we expect that we have been or ever will be visited or even that anything else out there KNOWS we exist? While we can speculate that a specific home in a specific town in a specific city in a specific country on a specific continent exists, we can't KNOW for a fact that it is there unless we either speak to the owner of said home or pay it a visit ourselves.

Should these other entities in the universe be expected to have any more reason or warrant to do so than we would have to visit an anthill? Would it be economically feasible for any of us to do this type of exploration? Would the knowledge gained from such an excursion be worth the ROI or even pass a cost benefit analysis? If there are other entities in the universe would there be ANYTHING at all they would gain from observing us as ants in a yard?

Hi Vasa. To answer your question, yes I believe. I think it is entirely possible UFOs could be of extraterrestrial origin. However, there is much evidence to show that they may be extra-dimensional in origin also. Is it one or the other or perhaps both?

You know scientists study ant hills. We do feel it necessary to take care of our animals and seek to understand them because we share a reality together. Why would aliens or any otherworldly being not have the capacity to love, care, and be curious? I think we are assuming a lot, when we think that these beings don't have any emotional capacity. Why wouldn't an advanced race want to study a world full of diverse life? I guarantee you, when we advance to space travel, we are going to scientifically study every single planet in our solar system. We will do the same when we get to the first solar system with planet that is not our own to.

reply to post by Vasa Croe

I have been reading a lot of the "visitor" type posts for aliens visiting the Earth. There are a lot of members here who think that it would be absurd for anyone to think we have NOT been visited. My thought is actually the opposite of this notion at this point in time. While I do believe there are plenty of other life forms in the universe I find it very egotistical, that we as humans, believe we are so special that we require visitation from "beings" from other planets in the Universe

Unless of course those visiting seeded us and are checking out their grand experiment to see why it has failed so miserably.

Take a look at what has happened to our planet and the people who live on it, maybe it's true that they are here to save us which I highly doubt, don't think we are worth it.

Methinks, just due to the vast enormity of scale of the universe, probability is very much non-zero that the universe may indeed have thousands, if not millions or billions of intelligent species.

~500 billion stars in Milky Way.

~400-600 Billion galaxies with roughly 300-600 Billion stars each.
There's enormous reservoirs of water just floating around the universe like this: Largest Water Reservoir in Universe ...

If each galaxy only had one form of intelligent life, that still leaves the 400-600 Billion galaxies in the observable known universe.

Cut that down with any fraction you like, and the results are still non-zero.

We are not alone in the universe.

Yet, we are.

The extreme vast enormity of the universe, the very thing that from a statistical standpoint indicates we are not alone in the universe, also makes it highly improbable that any life anywhere else is visiting any other life.

The universe is beyond huge.
If you could travel instantaneously anywhere, and decided to visit every single star in the milky way for just ONE second, it would take you well over 12,000 years to visit each star for just one second, and that is just ONE galaxy out of hundreds of Billions.