Nearly 1,000 Pakistan women 'killed for honour'

reply to post by couldbeanyone


LOL.

I can argue both sides of that.

Folks who viciously murder innocents deserve more than years in a nice hotel like prison.

And the kinds of 'honor' killings in the OP are horrific and deserve very stern punishment.

imho.

lets get this straight. very few people (and all of them are misinformed idiots) claim that ALL muslims beat their women and perform honor killings (the rates in the U.S. are dramatically lower than in muslim countries). that is absolutely false. i studied islam as well as many other major religions, i've even been to several mosques and had an opportunity to converse with intellectual peers without hostility developing.

i discovered that many muslims don't mistreat their women, even though women are viewed as second class citizens in a sense. however, (and there always is a "however" with such a preface) i've found that the aforementioned muslims aren't true to islamic teachings or muhammad's examples.

for example, the quran allows husbands to beat their wives if the husband thinks the wife is being disobedient. when i brought the subject up, and other controvercial subjects relating to muhammad, the reply was always "arabic does not translate accurately to any language" there are plenty of accounts which feature muhammad beating his own wives.

my point is this: "radical muslims" aren't radical, they merely follow the quran and muhammad's teachings to the letter. there are muslims who don't beat or kill their wives, but they aren't doing as the quran instructs.

reply to post by BO XIAN

agreed. there are some problems with certain folks in the religion, but that is life. it is what we do with the knowledge that matters.

Originally posted by couldbeanyone
reply to post by RizeorDie

 

THANK YOU! the problem today is the fall of the family unit.

Yes, the fall of the family unit is a crucial component.

And that has been a deliberate goal and strategy of the globalists.

When it suits them, they will shred Muslim family units as well.

However, I think it is a very twisted notion of "family" when brothers and fathers so freely and instantly can so coldly murder their own sister and daughter.

That's not any kind of family I'd want to be a part of.

And, that SORT of family has been in existence throughout Islam's history.

reply to post by Bob Sholtz



ABSOLUTELY INDEED.

Yet, where is the current Muslim who is honest about such things?

I can't think of one.

Many converted Muslims are quite candid about such things.

But not those still immersed in such mentalities and group values.

reply to post by couldbeanyone



Yes, we are all responsible for what we DO

with the knowledge we have.

And, we all, short of God's forgiveness and Christ's blood,

(and often even then)

WILL

reap what we have sown.

Originally posted by GLaDOS

Originally posted by jjkenobi

Originally posted by Tw0Sides

Do you realize how many women are killed by their Husbands in the US anually?

You might want to check if your Glass House is stone proof.

Next Muslim Hating Thread in 5..4..3..2..1..

Seriously? Except in the United States killing your wive/daughter/sister is a CRIME and you go to JAIL. In Pakistan it's allowed and considered honorable.

"In Pakistan it's allowed and considered honorable."
Where are you getting this from? It's not allowed, nor is it considered honerable. It's murder, the you get jailed for it.

edit on 22/3/2012 by GLaDOS because: (no reason given)

C'mon dude. You know there is a clear agenda at play here. Only its not clear to most. Most of those proclaiming their awakening and awareness are fast asleep and buy into the racism.

reply to post by Bob Sholtz


I've been trying to find a way contribute something of value to this thread and I found one in your response.

Since I'm a woman who has had enough Sharia education to know what kind of beatings are allowed and what are not, I shall chime in a bit.

The Western culture as we speak of, deems beating someone a form of abuse right? So from the perspective of someone who thinks any and all kinds of beating are bad, this isn't going to go very well. But this is the same culture who thinks divorcing someone over cheating is fine and acceptable and even encourages it without so much as a concern over what happens to the children or the parents or whether the meaning of marriage is lessened or not. There may be differences of opinion, but a man beating his wife as a last resort to bring her out of the deep trench she's in, has more love for her than a man who would divorce her outright.

You see, if you've been educated in the entirety of Islam, and not just in certain portions of it, you would understand the context of the verse that allows for beating and you'd understand why it makes sense.

Islam as a religion is not a religion of peace. But a religion of moderacy. Thats what I have deducted from all of my years of education in it anyway. What does that mean? Moderacy requires that you have two points of reference:
A maximum, and a minimum. And somewhere in the middle you find your moderacy. And from an established sense of moderacy, comes peace and love and what not. Without which, you can have neither.

As per this example, any teaching in Islam has a maximum allowance and a minimum limit. I don't want to bore you all with my examples, but lets consider this. This is ancient Arabia, before the advent of Islam, women were bought and sold, married into and 'divorced' like cattle without any guide for rights or laws for it. There wasn't even an established concept of 'marriage' among the pagan tribes. They married whoever they wanted, as many as they wanted and divorced their wives without so much as a glance or would take them back whenever they pleased. They were simply seen as cattle to be bought and sold and used. No one asked women whether they wanted to be married or not? However when Islam came around, they were immediately given rights as human beings in the eyes of God. That they were created equal to man in relation to rights and had an equal share of responsibility at home, albeit in different areas. Motherhood was made sacred, respect for women was made paramount if a man was to enter Heaven.

"The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, 'The most perfect of believers in belief is the best of them in character. The best of you are those who are the best to their women.'" [at-Tirmidhi]

I can count NUMEROUS hadith on how to treat women well, but I can also count numerous hadith on how women need to treat their men well, since its a two way road.

Coming to the beating part. The Maximum a man can do if his wife is being disloyal to him (cheating for example) is leaving her alone at night in her bed, if that doesn't stop the behavior, he has a right to beat her, but not on her face, and not in a manner that would abuse her physically. We are taught that this is preferable to outright divorcing someone and ruining their life and marriage. If that doesn't work, he divorces her. As you can see, there are levels of treatment. This doesn't bother me one bit. Why? because first of all I know the man I choose to marry will know exactly what to do if I cheat on him. He knows the boundaries set by God. If he goes out of those boundaries, he will pay for it in the hereafter severely. And a lot of women would prefer to be beaten on the buttocks a little then outright divorced. Well, if they prefer the latter than they're not very sane in my opinion.

As for the poor Pakistanis, they've been living in a cultural hell for generations now. The educated ones of those, whom I have very good friends, are very respectable people who treat each other with kindness and affection and do not go beyond what God has set for them.

You can freely criticize ignorant masses for their treatment, but do not mix what they do with what Islam demands, cause it's clearly not the same thing.

reply to post by nusnus



Thanks for your meaty and informed response.

I appreciate the other perspective you represent.

Given anger . . . and pride . . . and selfishness . . . and !!!CONTROL!!!! phreaque stuff born of dysfunctional insecurities . . .

I still think that beatings of a spouse are counter productive to grossly evil.

And the kind of beatings you seem to be talking about

are NOT the kind that we hear so much about.

reply to post by nusnus

You can freely criticize ignorant masses for their treatment, but do not mix what they do with what Islam demands, cause it's clearly not the same thing.

I think there's a fallacy in there somewhere . . .

WHEN a huge percentage of a people group

OWNING as their RELIGION/PHILOSOPHY OF LIFE

BEHAVE IN A CERTAIN SET OF WAYS

THEN

THAT

[size=+3][color=99CC99]IS

THAT religion or philosophy

FOR THAT GROUP.

AT some point, it does not matter even what the founding documents say.

As horrific as the Roman church has been through the ages--particularly the middle ages--we can certainly say that their behaviors were

NOT AUTHENTICALLY CHRISTIAN.

However, they defined Christianity for millions of people within and without the Roman group during many centuries.

Similarly, Masses of--you'd likely say--MISBEHAVING--Muslims in many regions and countries around the world--define ISLAM to a large degree BY THEIR BEHAVIORS. Their ACTIONS speak far louder than their words or even the words of the founding documents.
.
.

Panorama - the one good current affairs programme the BBC still airs did a show about this topic on Monday. Here is a link to the BBC website with some excellent info www.bbc.co.uk...

This seem to be more cultural than religious and is about bringing shame to the family in question.
Honour killings, together with enforced marriages are instigated by the family - fathers, brothers, uncles, etc usually with the mothers consent.

The problem in the UK is that most of these communities are extremely enclosed and no-one speaks out; indeed one girl was told that as nobody even knew she was here, the family could do as they liked with her.

There are now refuges for victims of these crimes but sadly the police, social services and even schools ( some of these girls are very young ) are too concerned with interfering in another's culture than they are with applying the law or offering protection as they would with girls from any other background.

The most disheartening thing was that Panorama did a survey of young British muslims and seikhs and most agreed that if a woman bought shame to her family, then it was right that she be punished. Sigh

reply to post by nusnus

thank you.

reply to post by BO XIAN


I hear you very well. Trust me I hear you a lot more than anyone else out there, simply because this is what we the educated ones have been face to face with for many years now. And this is the reason I'm more critical of Muslims who portray our religion badly than I am of others because it pains me more than you could ever imagine. And if I don't say anything to their face about it, God will hold me responsible for it. You won't see me going around criticizing anybody else or their religion because well, I've enough on my plate as it is and I'm only concerned with correcting my 'flock' so to speak.

You don't think I wasn't faced with Muslims who told me outright to my face that I wasn't a 'good' Muslim simply because I didn't fit into their 'expectations'? You don't think they judged me simply because I wasn't covering my hair in a certain way (a lot of countries have their own version of hair cover and some of them are so ignorant they think hey, if you don't cover like this then you're not a Muslim) You don't think I came across men who thought they could take me down by simply stating hadith that worked for them but left out the ones that worked for me? Oh I've been facing them all my life. And I'm so sick and tired of it I choose to stay away from the extreme ones who think its all about the looks and the constant praying and vigilante judging of others. All the while forgetting that God also requires them to educate themselves, to read a book occasionally, maybe enlighten their minds with something beyond the daily repetition of the same sentences that turns into a kind of brainwashing technique.

But if I don't separate what God truly wants, from the behavior of those who like to twist religion to suit their needs, then I will have nothing to fight back with, and that simply isn't true.

It has to be really scary to be a girl growing up in a Muslim society. You can't even trust your own family if you do something against their beliefs. Not to mention, having to drape your entire body when walking outside your home. Talk about dehumanizing a human being. If I was a Muslim women, as soon as I was able to save enough money for a flight out of the country, I would take the first plane out to a western country, shed my burka and go skinny dipping in a pool. Ahhhh, freedom at last.

reply to post by nusnus



EXCELLENT POINTS . . . bringing tears to my eyes for some reason.

You are enormously easy to respect and applaud.

Congrats.

Thanks tons.

May God bless you with an ever closer walk with Him.

reply to post by BO XIAN


The joys of Sharia and the Taliban. Such wonderful folk.

I wonder if they have to pay for their own birth control? The same progressives yelling about that, seem to always make excuses for Sharia and monsters like the Taliban.

reply to post by Blaine91555



Plenty true.

It seems like there's no accounting for

taste

or

ignorance.

However, the globalist oligarchy is worse than all the above and is using all the above ruthlessly.

Originally posted by Tw0Sides

Do you realize how many women are killed by their Husbands in the US anually?

You might want to check if your Glass House is stone proof.

Next Muslim Hating Thread in 5..4..3..2..1..

The difference is that it is highly illegal and punishable by law. Admittedly I don't know much of their laws, but is it legal? Are the laws enforced if there are any laws against it?

I think the religious part needs to be taken out of it and make it an issue of common law. Murder = wrong = punishment.

reply to post by BO XIAN
I dont like violence either but would the japanese and nazis during world war-2 have ever been stopped through peaceful overtures? no way,they needed a taste of their own medicine and thats what they got in the end x10...

Every single adult in america should be made to watch reality,the horrifying footage of those americans and people from other western countries getting their heads sawed off by those sicko muslim extremists,because its reality...

What if it was your mother,or daughter or wife,or husband? I'll bet anything that if someone very close to you was kidnapped, starved, tortured and then filmed while being slowly beheaded and you watched it,you would be Screaming For Vengeance.I know i would be...

The muslim beheaders,suicide bombers,kidnappers,torturers,terrorists ect,ect,ect have sown the wind and now they will reap the whirlwind,is what i think and say...

Evacuate the muslim women and children to safety by force,no matter what the cost and then carpet bomb their entire country,just like roosevelt,churchill and truman would have done and thus stop the muslims from destroying innocent people again and again and again during their perpetual jihad against western civilization...

Those religiously hell bent,warped and high strung (tending to be very nervous and easily excited) muslim men sure have designed one hell of a fabricated religion for themselves,all in the name of their supposedly real god allah,just to ensure their continuing control and domination and murder of their women...

Over the last 1,400 years,270 million "non-believers" have been murdered by muslims during their perpetual jihad against western civilization,the most protracted and brutal genocide of all time...

Sword Of Islam > www.masada2000.org...

Tears Of Jihad > www.politicalislam.com...