Sheriff Joe's posse: 'Probable cause' Obama Birth Certificate a Fraud-now a Criminal Case!

The bottom line in the whole birth certificate debate is that for some reason it took Obama 3 years to produce the document and he fought tooth and nail to prevent his B/C from being made public. His actions alone suggest that there is something he doesn't want people to know.

Its not like the people of America were asking to see some very personal and private document. We were asking to see the same documents that every employer is required by federal law to ask of any potential employee. Due to his lack of willingness to comply with the request of his employers (the US citizens), I feel certain that he is hiding something and his actions add further doubt in my mind as to his legitimacy of his integrity and quite possibly his ability to legally be president.

If it is ever proven that he in fact is not eligible to be POTUS then I think that he should be tried for high treason and if found guilty face the same fate that any soldier in our armed forces would face if guilty. That being execution by firing squad. That is after all the punishment for treason in the military and as he is CiC it would only be right.

If it is found that he is eligible to be POTUS then all of this can be avoided in the future by adding a constitutional amendment requiring all candidates to submit their B/C's prior to being placed on the ballot.

reply to post by Nucleardiver


Exactly. People forget that we don't work for the president or the government, they work for us. And until that mentality is reminded, people will let an authority become an authoritarian.

Who is Barak?

According to the Book of Judges in the Bible, he is the general who attacked and defeated the Canaanites (Palestine, Lebanon, Syria) on behalf of the people of Israel.

Originally posted by 1nOne
Who is Barak?

According to the Book of Judges in the Bible, he is the general who attacked and defeated the Canaanites (Palestine, Lebanon, Syria) on behalf of the people of Israel.

I think we should probably dispense with that notion.

At bedrock, I don’t believe the universe is made of quarks, or particles, or electromagnetic fields, or God’s love, or anything like that. What I think it is made of is language. And where does language come from? It seems like it comes from inside our heads.

All these things–the Universe is this, it’s that–these are just word nets. The Universe seems to be what you say it is. And to some degree, not what I say it is, or what you say it is; we are embedded in a cultural voice which says what it is. Then within that cultural voice we have our own small voice and we can “tinker” with the cultural definition of reality to some degree.

But over millennia, the cultural voice has changed its mind several times about what reality is. So I think we need, not a physics of what reality is, but a syntax, a grammar. We need to approach reality the way we would approach a work of literature, rather than the way we would approach a material system.

Originally posted by Nucleardiver
and he fought tooth and nail to prevent his B/C from being made public

He did? Any proof of that silly statement at all?

how many previous Presidents have released their birth certifcicates? Why didnt they?

We were asking to see the same documents that every employer is required by federal law to ask of any potential employee.

Why didnt you ask any previous President for their birth certificate?

Originally posted by juveous
No where in the press confrence is eligibility brought up by Arpaio or his people, it is only implied by journalist who want a story

This is a bald-faced lie, transcripts linked below:
www.scribd.com...

Arpaio is even selling an ebook on the investigation entitled 'a question of eligibility':
www.kpho.com...

So why on earth are you denying that Arpaio's little investigation had anything to do with Obama's proof of eligibility to the presidency? Seriously?

No where in press conference does Arpaio accuse Obama of anything.

Where did Arpaio say Obama was innocent in the press conference? Arpaio claims Obama's birth certificate is a fraud, one Obama vouched it's authenticity, so what is this?

Did you conclude that Obama was innocent given Arpaio's findings?

I want the president to answer concerns of citizens yes. Paint it how you want to fine,

It is not the presidents job to answer to every single citizen out there who is unsatisfied with whether he proved his eligibility or not. He has a real job to do, his job isn't to cater to your sensitivities about him being elected or anybody elses.

but when a group of law enforcement officers and attorneys put together an investigation to verify something the Whitehouse releases, it should be addressed.

Arpaio has a history of being a rightwing partisan. Corsi, who participated in the investigation, along with WND, has a long history of being anti-liberal, of attacking liberal politicians. This wasn't a valid or impartial investigation of any sort. You may be of the position that it was a legitimate investigation, but you are only interested in information contrary to Obama's eligibility.

Its apparently not a non-issue right now.

Not to birthers. No.

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
Originally posted by juveous
No where in the press confrence is eligibility brought up by Arpaio or his people, it is only implied by journalist who want a story

This is a bald-faced lie, transcripts linked below:
www.scribd.com...

I'd be glad to concede this, just go ahead and quote where they said it in the transcript, and be sure you aren't looking at an answer to a question, and that it was actually "brought up" by them.

Arpaio is even selling an ebook on the investigation entitled 'a question of eligibility':
www.kpho.com...

aaaannt! wrong. Not Arpaio, it's Mike Zullo. So now you are bold face lying.

So why on earth are you denying that Arpaio's little investigation had anything to do with Obama's proof of eligibility to the presidency? Seriously?

I didn't deny it, I said it wasn't brought up in press conference, and I said it wasn't the argument presented.

Where did Arpaio say Obama was innocent in the press conference? Arpaio claims Obama's birth certificate is a fraud, one Obama vouched it's authenticity, so what is this?

Stop appealing to ignorance. Trying to accuse the man for not saying something. Its called insinuating, and he denied that insinuation.

Did you conclude that Obama was innocent given Arpaio's findings?

I conclude Obama has some explaining to do.

Arpaio has a history of being a rightwing partisan. Corsi, who participated in the investigation, along with WND, has a long history of being anti-liberal, of attacking liberal politicians. This wasn't a valid or impartial investigation of any sort. You may be of the position that it was a legitimate investigation, but you are only interested in information contrary to Obama's eligibility.

None of that makes evidence less significant. You can conclude there may have been a bias slant in the investigation, but then you have to prove the evidence was distorted in some way.

Not to birthers. No.

Birthers are people to. Gosh.

Originally posted by juveous
just go ahead and quote where they said it in the transcript, and be sure you aren't looking at an answer to a question, and that it was actually "brought up"

Right.

LISA ALLEN:Good afternoon. I'm Lisa Allen(?), the director of media relationsfor the Maricopa County Sheriff's Office, here to introduce you to those who aregoing to be speaking today and presenting the initial findings of a six-month longinvestigation by the sheriff's cold case posse into the authenticity of the President's birth certificate and his subsequent eligibility to hold the office of president

I’ve researched and written about Barack Obama’s birth certificate and his eligibility to be President to this point. This is not a politically motivated inquiry. It’s an inquiry for.. for truth. That’s why I feel privileged to have participated with a dedicated law enforcement team that has been organized by Sheriff Arpaio and the Maricopa County Sheriff’s Office

www.scribd.com...

These references were at the beginning of the conference, not at the end when the journalists began asking questions.

From world net daily themselves, prior to the conference, participants within the investigation themselves:

MARICOPA COUNTY, Ariz. – At the request of tea-party leaders in Arizona, famed Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio has agreed to examine evidence challenging the validity of Barack Obama’s purported long-form birth certificate in a determination of the president’s eligibility for the 2012 election ballot.

www.wnd.com...

Now maybe you can demonstrate to us where Arpaio or any of his posse claimed that this investigation had nothing to do with his eligibility? What sense does it make for them to investigate the authenticity of his birth certificate if none of them questioned his eligibility? Is this the position you're going to stubbornly roll on with in light of these facts?

aaaannt! wrong. Not Arpaio, it's Mike Zullo.

Zullo was verymuch apart of the investigation, he was the lead investigator. Let's go back to your previous claim:

No where in the press confrence is eligibility brought up by Arpaio or his people

Maricopa County Sheriff's Department Cold Case Posse lead investigator Michael Zullo

www.austin360.com...

The ebook has Maricopa county's name on it.

A spokesman for the Maricopa County Sheriff's Office tells CBS 5 News that Arpaio did not and will not receive any compensation for his contribution to the book

www.kpho.com...

We can play this game all day.

Did you conclude that Obama was innocent given Arpaio's findings?
I conclude Obama has some explaining to do.

You believe that Arpaio was not accusing Obama of anything, and yet Obama is a suspect as the result of this investigation?

None of that makes evidence less significant. You can conclude there may have been a bias slant

Of course there is a bias slant. Given Cori's and Arpaio's history, it's pritty darn obvious just how credible this investigation really was. You take it to full credibility though, I'm not going to change your mind. Birthers made up their minds long before this investigation.

Birthers are people

Yes, birthers are people who believe Obama has not proven that he is eligible for the presidency. They believe his birth certificates have not been proven as valid and that there's evidence some cover up going on to hide something about the president.

Does this fit your position?

reply to post by reaxi0n




Thanks for the clarification. Don't beat yourself up or underestimate yourself. I make my fair share of bloopers here on ATS as well. It was just a small piece of information you were not aware of (and easily overlooked with the shoe throwing incident), no big deal.

Impeach and imprison that Marxist piece of filth!

Originally posted by KingPanzergrenadier
Impeach and imprison that Marxist piece of filth!

Well, you mean the sheriff? Probably best waiting until he's gone through his grand jury hearing on two counts and then see where he stands. I guess that's who you must mean seeing as I don't see any real evidence against anyone else?

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
Originally posted by juveous


Right.

LISA ALLEN:Good afternoon. I'm Lisa Allen(?), the director of media relationsfor the Maricopa County Sheriff's Office, here to introduce you to those who aregoing to be speaking today and presenting the initial findings of a six-month longinvestigation by the sheriff's cold case posse into the authenticity of the President's birth certificate and his subsequent eligibility to hold the office of president

I’ve researched and written about Barack Obama’s birth certificate and his eligibility to be President to this point. This is not a politically motivated inquiry. It’s an inquiry for.. for truth. That’s why I feel privileged to have participated with a dedicated law enforcement team that has been organized by Sheriff Arpaio and the Maricopa County Sheriff’s Office

www.scribd.com...

These references were at the beginning of the conference, not at the end when the journalists began asking questions.

First off. Lisa Ann (your first quote) is talking about what why the investigation took place - It was literally the opener for the press conference. Arpaio does not bring up eligibility.
Second. Jerome Corsi (your second quote) is a writer for wnd, talking about his personal experience. Eligibility was not the argument for Arpaio. Also you quoted out of context

I can tell you that the investigators were skeptical, not enthusiastic to undertake theinvestigation, that I came with a stated determination to find the truth. I waswilling, and remain willing, to have been found wrong by the law enforcementinvestigation on everything I’ve researched and written about Barack Obama’s birth certificate and his eligibility to be President to this point

Sounds different from yours doesn't it.

Now maybe you can demonstrate to us where Arpaio or any of his posse claimed that this investigation had nothing to do with his eligibility? What sense does it make for them to investigate the authenticity of his birth certificate if none of them questioned his eligibility? Is this the position you're going to stubbornly roll on with in light of these facts?

Listen. There is no way to beat around eligibility, it is going to be in question as a consequence no matter what, but I'm saying the investigation was not about eligibility, it was about fraud, and the argument from the press conference fouces on that. From Arpaio -

if these documents are forged, and we believe as a result of the investigation that there is enough probable cause to say they are, then a crime has been committed. I am not accusing the President of the United States of any crime.We have to further this investigation to determine who, where, when, and why these documents were - we feel - forged.

aaaannt! wrong. Not Arpaio, it's Mike Zullo.

Zullo was verymuch apart of the investigation, he was the lead investigator. Let's go back to your previous claim:

No where in the press confrence is eligibility brought up by Arpaio or his people

Maricopa County Sheriff's Department Cold Case Posse lead investigator Michael Zullo

www.austin360.com...

We can play this game all day.

So you just decided to elaborate on a different and misdirected quote of mine? All I said was that Arpaio didn't write the book, and he didn't. What you are trying to do is make this about eligibility from the standpoint of Zullo, and what I'm saying is that from the standpoint of Arpaio, who authorized the investigation, it is not.

You believe that Arpaio was not accusing Obama of anything, and yet Obama is a suspect as the result of this investigation?

Right. He is not being accused of being responsible, but he is the subject, and it is his birth certificate we are talking about. EDIT: and really I meant the Whitehouse more so than the man himself, Because he obviously didn't upload it.

Of course there is a bias slant. Given Cori's and Arpaio's history, it's pritty darn obvious just how credible this investigation really was. You take it to full credibility though, I'm not going to change your mind. Birthers made up their minds long before this investigation.

What part of the investigation makes it less credible?

Yes, birthers are people who believe Obama has not proven that he is eligible for the presidency. They believe his birth certificates have not been proven as valid and that there's evidence some cover up going on to hide something about the president.

Does this fit your position?

Short answer - No. My position is that a group of people presented the case that the Whitehouse digital copy of President Obama's birth certificate was manufactured, and I think the Whitehouse should give their counter argument, and not just say that the bc is proof positive, deal with it.

Originally posted by juveous
First off. Lisa Ann (your first quote) is talking about what why the investigation took place - It was literally the opener for the press conference. Arpaio does not bring up eligibility.

The investigation was based upon Obama's eligibility to the presidency, one in which Arpaio participated in and lead. At no time did Arpaio deny that the investigation had anything to do with Obama's eligibility. Lisa Ann presented the investigation in connection to Obama's eligibility (Arpaio should have been well aware). You continue to backtrack regarding the purpose of the investigation, it's just unbelievable.

Second. Jerome Corsi (your second quote) is a writer for wnd, talking about his personal experience. Eligibility was not the argument for Arpaio.

Jerome Corsi was a participant in the investigation, you know this full well already. He was the major contributor towards the ebook on the investigation entitled 'a question of eligibility'.

Why are you so bent on denying that this has to do with Obama's eligibility when it's so plainly obvious? What's wrong?

Listen. There is no way to beat around eligibility, it is going to be in question as a consequence no matter what,

Bingo.

but I'm saying the investigation was not about eligibility, it was about fraud, and the argument from the press conference fouces on that.

You cannot have one without the other. The basis of Obama's birth certificate being a fraud for birthers links right back to his eligibility to the presidency. There's no point denying that this investigation has to link to this, especially when the ebook based around the investigation, written by the lead 'investigator', explicitly mentions eligibility on the title.

Again, here's a link to the calls from tea partiers for Arpaio to investigate:

Arizona sheriff promises Obama-eligibility probe
Lawman responds to request from local tea-party leaders

At the request of tea party leaders in Arizona, famed Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio has promised to investigate the validity of Barack Obama's purported long-form birth certificate in a determination of the president's eligibility for the county's 2012 election ballot.

All I said was that Arpaio didn't write the book, and he didn't.

And I never said he wrote the book either, Arpaio did however contribute to it knowing full well that the ebook was entitled 'a question of eligibility'. You insist that Zullo authored the book, but this doesn't make a difference as to whether Arpaio contributed to it, with that title.

You are so bent on making as if Arpaio was not at all interested in Obama's eligibility to the presidency in this investigation, yet, regardless of all the obvious titles and comments from participants in the investigations, Arpaio hasn't objected to anything. Why do you speak for Arpaio? If Arpaio wished to make this purely about Obama's birth certificate itself, he would have said so on the record, and the others would not have mentioned it.

Right. He is not being accused of being responsible, but he is the subject, and it is his birth certificate we are talking about. EDIT: and really I meant the Whitehouse more so than the man himself, Because he obviously didn't upload it.

Regardless of what you say, Obama is being made a suspect in this investigation. You cannot insist that neither you nor mr Arpaio here is pointing to Obama over anything given this fact. And this isn't solely about the whitehouse. The long form birth certificate, just like the short form, was released by Hawaiian health officials who vouched to it's authenticity;
hawaii.gov... cate

What part of the investigation makes it less credible?

Yes it does, it shows that the individuals have personal histories connected with this investigation, it's a pathetic attempt at furthering the birther conspiracy. And as to other parts of the credibility:

None of the participants in the investigation are verified experts in Hawaiian birth certificates
None of the participants examined the actual birth certificate, just a digital image of it
None of the participants subjected other Hawaiian long form birth certificates to the same digital analysis as Obama's

You know what? If Arpaio and company really wanted to assure this investigation credible and impartial, they would not have involved themselves in it, and they would not have gotten Corsi of all people to participate. What do you take people for?

Short answer - No.

So in response to my previous comment, you do believe that Obama has proven that he is eligible to the presidency and you do believe in the authenticity of both his birth certificates?

Originally posted by spoor
I post facts, it is a lie that Obama sealed his personal documents.

Only released a small note from the doctor. Meanwhile, McCain released his medical records.
New York Times
You lefties like Snopes, so here's another article. Notice the part saying that his college records have still not been released. Snopes

Originally posted by spoor
But according to you they must have sealed them...

Have you filed a lawsuit yet to have them opened? Until you take it to court 500 times and they fight them to keep them closed, they're not "sealed". They're simply not requested. So, get an attorney and get to court. Until then, your red herring arguement is just a joke at best.

Originally posted by spoor
You avoided the question as to why you have sealed all your personal documents, like medical records, college records etc.
Why did you avoid that simple question?

Didn't avoid it. If I apply for a job at your company, I'll happily comply with any records you require for the job. Yes, and if that means medical records, college records, and a SSN starting with 521 (since I was born in Colorado). I'll even provide you and your HR department my hospital generated birth certificate, or a certified copy from the state. If I am applying for the position of President of the United States, I will certainly and openly open up all my information as well. But, I'm just an engineer at Oracle Corp. Oracle has all my information though, because it was required for me to get my job. The Navy also has my information, and the FBI interviewed my teachers and principals from high school before I was granted my security clearance when I served. But, this isn't about ME, it's about OBAMA.
Once again though, I don't dispute Obama's citizenship. I simply think he lied on his college applications and claimed he was Indonesian, to get some scholarships.

Originally posted by spoor
Yet none of them have the information you are demanding from Obama available, yet you ignore them and only demand Obama's.... why is that?

Once again, how many lawsuits have been filed to get them to release it? ZERO. Also, simply use GOOGLE and look for All the other candidates (prior and many present) who have released their stuff freely, without multiple lawsuits and the benefit of (opinion) purchased judges quashing the requests. Ask yourself, why would they fight it? Seriously, what information could someone possibly get from his records other than what the "birthers" are looking for? Bush was a horrible student. Obama had to have better grades, so it can't be his grades he's worried about. I don't know what's in there, and honestly I don't care, unless it's something that shows he's a FRAUD!

Originally posted by spoor
they were published by Bush, I mean go to his college and get his records from the college - like you think you should be able to do for Obama.

Why would I go to his college and ask for the, when they are ALREADY RELEASED? Have you lost your mind?

Originally posted by spoor
I am not the one afraid of the first black president, you apparently are, demanding all sorts of records from him alone.

Again, you bring "black" into it. Methinks you have some issues there. I'm not "demanding" anything. Once again, if he has committed fraud to enter college on a scholarship, I think that would be information that should be public.

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
Doesn't matter, Obama is the only president to publically release a verified birth certificate, both his short form and long form, this is fact (and he was never required to do either, he voluntarily did it). Birthers aren't satisfied and they will never be until Obama leaves office, this has little to do with the constitution.

Once again, I don't dispute he's a U.S. Citizen, born in Hawaii. What do you NOT get about that?

Originally posted by navy_vet_stg3

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
Doesn't matter, Obama is the only president to publically release a verified birth certificate, both his short form and long form, this is fact (and he was never required to do either, he voluntarily did it). Birthers aren't satisfied and they will never be until Obama leaves office, this has little to do with the constitution.

Once again, I don't dispute he's a U.S. Citizen, born in Hawaii. What do you NOT get about that?

geeze are you blue in the face yet.. great post BTW.

only reason I ever doubted obamas citizenship is because his own grandmother said she watched his birth in .... and the fact that all the documents and secrecy around these Docs. the semantics behind the law during the Time of obamas birth show he is not eligible tho. someone in the begging of the thread cleared that up well with links and quotes of the law to back it up.

Originally posted by navy_vet_stg3
Once again, I don't dispute he's a U.S. Citizen, born in Hawaii.

So you believe he has proven that he is eligible to the presidency of the United States? Clarify this for me.

reply to post by Southern Guardian


Now, the flying saucer thing is very, very similar. No serious person gives it a moment’s thought. It’s just the stuff of the National Enquirer.

Nevertheless, these polls keep coming out: thirty-seven percent of the American people believe flying saucers are real; eleven percent claim to have seen one. What’s happening is that loyalty is being transferred from scientific institutions to the “space brothers”. Not on the governing level of society, where everything is calm and controlled, but with the great masses who read the National Enquirer and say, “Well Ma dear, it seems tuh me th’ space folk know a great deal more about it than prezydent Raygun!’ That’s dangerous talk. That means the official religion, which is science, is helpless in the face of this thing.

They say, “It’s something, but it’s nothing.” But they don’t realize the important thing about the flying saucer is not, “What is it?” The important thing about it is, “What is it doing to human society?” What it’s doing is throwing open the door to the legitimate belief in the irrational, and all kinds of other stuff.

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
Originally posted by juveous
The investigation was based upon Obama's eligibility to the presidency, one in which Arpaio participated in and lead. At no time did Arpaio deny that the investigation had anything to do with Obama's eligibility. Lisa Ann presented the investigation in connection to Obama's eligibility (Arpaio should have been well aware). You continue to backtrack regarding the purpose of the investigation, it's just unbelievable.

Believe it!

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER 2:You are [unintelligible] saying that he isserving illegally as the President of the United States.
JOE ARPAIO: I never said that.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER 2:Well, if you...
JOE ARPAIO: I never said that. I... We’re talking about a birth certificate. And he can... he can present other information proving that he was born here. I’m just talking about a birth certificate, possible forgery, and fraud. That’s all

Jerome Corsi was a participant in the investigation, you know this full well already. He was the major contributor towards the ebook on the investigation entitled 'a question of eligibility'.

Your point? I've already addressed that the investigation was about fraud, not the by-product, which is ineligibility.

Why are you so bent on denying that this has to do with Obama's eligibility when it's so plainly obvious? What's wrong?

I'm not denying it, I'm saying Arpaio is.

You cannot have one without the other. The basis of Obama's birth certificate being a fraud for birthers links right back to his eligibility to the presidency. There's no point denying that this investigation has to link to this, especially when the ebook based around the investigation, written by the lead 'investigator', explicitly mentions eligibility on the title.

Fraud does make eligibility questionable, but Fraud is also a crime, so it makes the Obama Administration criminal before making him ineligible.

And I never said he wrote the book either

Really?

Arpaio is even selling an ebook on the investigation entitled 'a question of eligibility':
www.kpho.com...

here

Arpaio did however contribute to it knowing full well that the ebook was entitled 'a question of eligibility'. You insist that Zullo authored the book, but this doesn't make a difference as to whether Arpaio contributed to it, with that title.

How? How is knowing about it contributing? Blaming him for something he didn't do again?

You are so bent on making as if Arpaio was not at all interested in Obama's eligibility to the presidency in this investigation, yet, regardless of all the obvious titles and comments from participants in the investigations, Arpaio hasn't objected to anything. Why do you speak for Arpaio? If Arpaio wished to make this purely about Obama's birth certificate itself, he would have said so on the record, and the others would not have mentioned it.

Please read conversation quoted above between Unidentified Reporter 2 and Arpaio.

Regardless of what you say, Obama is being made a suspect in this investigation.

Well yeah, it is his birth certificate, the whole thing is about him

Yes it does, it shows that the individuals have personal histories connected with this investigation, it's a pathetic attempt at furthering the birther conspiracy. And as to other parts of the credibility:

None of the participants in the investigation are verified experts in Hawaiian birth certificates
None of the participants examined the actual birth certificate, just a digital image of it
None of the participants subjected other Hawaiian long form birth certificates to the same digital analysis as Obama's

The whole investigation is about the digital copy genius. They want to forensic age test the microfilm physical document.

You know what? If Arpaio and company really wanted to assure this investigation credible and impartial, they would not have involved themselves in it, and they would not have gotten Corsi of all people to participate. Whatnot have gotten Corsi of all people to participate. What do you take people for?

Who else was going to do the investigation then?

So in response to my previous comment, you do believe that Obama has proven that he is eligible to the presidency and you do believe in the authenticity of both his birth certificates?

I don't put it in the realm of impossibility that he wasn't born here. But, Occam's razor suggests the man was born in Hawaii. This isn't like some philosophical question, it can be proved in a lab, even though I doubt it would come down to that.

Confirmed: Obama's Birth Certificate Not Authentic 2012

I hate to think of what diversion is going to be used by Team Obama to make this disappear....