Obama's hidden birth certificate now exposed

reply to post by redoubt


You know because you go and do research and check it out.

If you refuse to engage with reality I can't help you...

BTW: I know you don't care by your attitude....

Originally posted by captainnotsoobvious
reply to post by Flatfish

 

IMO all the Birther threads should start in the hoax forum and be forced to argue their way out...

I couldn't agree more! I once authored a thread petitioning the ATS Board to do just that, it didn't get much attention then and I suspect it won't now but just the same, I agree with you 100%.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Should All "Birther" Threads Go Directly To Hoax Forum?.....Do Not Pass Go, Do Not Collect $200,

reply to post by bknapple32

Are we really in a day and age where the person who proves he is the creator of a hoax, isnt enough to believe its a hoax. By that measure, NOTHING in the world could be proven to be a hoax. Not everything in the whole wide world is a shade of grey. Sometimes it really is cut and dry; black and white. This is a hoax.

I think we tend to believe what we choose to believe regardless of day and age. We base our beliefs as much on our personality and predisposed notions of what is truth, as we do any evidence available to us.

This is exactly why a website like ATS exists and why the so-called 'conspiracy theorist' exists as well.

We may call something truth, but what we have is an opinion of what truth is that fits our beliefs. There is nothing beyond being challenged.

reply to post by redoubt


This is about the the most pointless attitude I've come across on ATS.

Originally posted by captainnotsoobvious
reply to post by redoubt

 

You know because you go and do research and check it out.

If you refuse to engage with reality I can't help you...

BTW: I know you don't care by your attitude....

edit on 26-2-2012 by captainnotsoobvious because: (no reason given)

Nothing I have said has sunk in... you still see me as someone who believes the story, not someone who challenges the system of either belief or disbelief applied here.

No matter. Thanks for the conversation.

reply to post by redoubt


The example of Roswell and this are a little different. With Roswell you have conflicting reports, an official story that has changed on a few occasions and doesn't properly address all aspects of the mystery. So even if you claimed to pay off all those people, print the newspapers, etc. there's no proof to support this claim. With this Kenyan birth certificate there is plenty of evidence to claim it's a hoax even without the person claiming they made it and demonstrating how they did it. For example, as has been pointed out a few times already, the BC makes reference to the Republic of Kenya. If this BC is from 1961 why does it refer to something that didn't exist until 1964? Why does the date format change throughout documents? As Kenya was a British colony at the time it should use standard European date formatting of day/month/year. Yet we see this and the American format of month/day/year in these documents as well. Others have pointed out that Mombasa is 300 miles away from where Obama's relatives live. So why would they travel 300 miles for Obama's mother to give birth when there are other hospitals that were closer?

There's plenty of evidence that points to this without a doubt being a hoax. Roswell on the other hand has so much evidence pointing in different directions that it's impossible to make a decision one way or the other. It's clear cut cases like this Kenyan BC that the hoax forum was made for. All evidence points to it being a hoax. People are free to ignore this evidence if it suits their worldview but to do so is to embrace ignorance.

reply to post by redoubt


I don't see you as a believer, though you keep repeating it, I don't.

I see you as someone with no integrity and a delusional idea about reality that you use to justify your cowardice/laziness.

I don't care if you think everything could be true or false. That is in itself false.

reply to post by Xcalibur254


I used Roswell as an easy-to-grasp case for making the point. Nothing more. I was to show how we either lean to belief or disbelief NOT based so much on facts, but on personality and prepositioned, preexisting beliefs.

In the case of the Obama birth certificate, it really becomes a minefield because regardless of how clear you make it that you are not crossing someone's political no-man's land, you will be fired upon.

But this does reinforce my point because by putting this in the [HOAX] brackets, anyone not immediately signing up to the system is seen as being the enemy... and again, you are fired upon.

I believe I made my case clear and stated that I was not in any way endorsing the article in question. I still hold that the [HOAX] forum is a horrible mistake because it creates the perception of whatever is found under it, as proven beyond question to be that hoax... which it is not because, there will always be others who disagree. That's part of both politics and the human condition.

From here, there's no sense in running back over the same roadkill.

Best to all.

reply to post by captainnotsoobvious

I see you as someone with no integrity and a delusional idea about reality that you use to justify your cowardice/laziness.

My only reply would be to question your judging a complete stranger as those things based on nothing more than a few exchanges on a conspiracy website.

From there, it's up to you.

reply to post by redoubt


yeah ok.

good luck with all of that...

The fact is if I take you at face value, I have enough to consider you fairly delusional and/or cowardly.

And remember as far as you are concerned you could very well be a delusional coward. Yes?

Originally posted by captainnotsoobvious
reply to post by redoubt

 

yeah ok.

good luck with all of that...

The fact is if I take you at face value, I have enough to consider you fairly delusional and/or cowardly.

And remember as far as you are concerned you could very well be a delusional coward. Yes?

You read your own last few posts and then tell me about delusions, lol.

Nah. BTW, why did you get all personal all of a sudden? I never said anything bad about you. In fact, I believe I noted that I didn't know you at all.

Was that the wrong thing to say, or what?

reply to post by redoubt


I understand what you were trying to get across, but using this topic as your soapbox may not have been the best choice. While I can see relegating things to the [HOAX!] forum may not be prudent in some cases, it is cases like this one where it proves its worth. There is no way to explain the inconsistencies in this case without accepting it as being a hoax. While there are threads that fall into a grey area between truth and hoax that prematurely get moved to the [HOAX!] forum this is not one of them. This is a clear cut case of someone forging a document and attempting to pass it off as legitimate. By not labeling it as such in some way invites the continued propagation of ignorance. There are plenty of members and lurkers on here who might just read the OP and skip on the rest of the thread. Without a blatant labeling of hoax such a person could read the OP, not read the rest of it, believe the OP, and then tell more people about it who then believe it. The [HOAX!] label isn't meant to stop discussion or looking into the topic. However, in the hypothetical situation above it may encourage that same person to read the rest of the thread and see why it was labeled as a hoax and thus learn something.

Click here for more information.

Originally posted by LastProphet527
reply to post by Rafe_

 

Shouldn’t this thread be in rant, hoax, or the delusional conspiracy section? If this were true, then the news would be all over it. I thought this site denied ignorance, but now I see it embraces it.

Galactic news

edit on 25-2-2012 by LastProphet527 because: (no reason given)

The term "ignorance" is relative within the general understandings of American politics and economic agendas.

Sound familiar?
www.americanforeignrelations.com...

How about www.inn-california.com...

Propaganda of the Spanish–American War: Hearst and Pulitzer
en.wikipedia.org...

Yellow journalism
en.wikipedia.org...

Getting this , Nephew?

I know some other people have posted information regarding why the Kenyan birth certificate is most likely a fake. But it appears that some people missed those posts.

Here it is again, along with an article from the Washington Independent.

Birthers' Latch Onto Forged Kenyan Birth Certificate

The most obvious problems:

- It records Barack Obama Sr’s age as “26.” Obama Sr was born in 1936; his son was born in 1961.

- Its publication date is February 17, 1964, but it purports be a document of the “Republic of Kenya.” Kenya did not become a Republic until December 12, 1964, a year after it won independence from Great Britain.

- It’s signed by “registrar E.F. Lavender.” Earth Friendly Lavender is a kind of detergent, and government officials who use vanity initials on official documents are, to put it mildly, rare.

- The kicker? The image is part of the extremely ill-informed conspiracy theory that Obama was born in Mombasa—conveniently, one of the more Muslim parts of the country.

This has always been a red flag for conspiracy theorists, so it deserves some explanation. Barack Obama Sr. was born and educated in Nyanza Province, in southwestern Kenya, on Lake Victoria. This is the area where Obama’s family lived and continues to live; Sarah Obama, the step-grandmother of the president, lives in Nyang’oma Kogelo, a small town in the province. But Mombasa is a city on the Indian Ocean, a thousand miles to the east. It didn’t even have an international airport until 1979. And the city wasn’t even part of Kenya when the future president was born. Mombasa was a part of Zanzibar until December 12, 1963, when it became part of the newly independent Kenya.

The new forgery? Why, it claims that the president was born in Coast General Hospital in Mombasa.

- As some FreeRepublic posters have pointed out, the document contains a number that’s either a humorous coincidence or a wink by the forger. It’s number 47,044. Barack Obama, 47 years old, is the 44th president of the United States.

Can we get this moved to the HOAX bin now?

Originally posted by ThirdRock69
Can we get this moved to the HOAX bin now?

Pay attention - it's been in HOAX for a while!!

reply to post by Xcalibur254

I understand what you were trying to get across, but using this topic as your soapbox may not have been the best choice. While I can see relegating things to the [HOAX!] forum may not be prudent in some cases, it is cases like this one where it proves its worth.

This is exactly where I feel that it fully disproves any worthiness because it, quite simply, takes a subject/topic and labels it a HOAX based on nothing more than either one person's word or the view of a good number of the membership. This may seem entirely logical in one sense, but there is no good reason to believe that the confession of any one person is worth more than the opinion of the next... or that there is less chance of one number of people being wrong than another.

But beyond that, it is political and if there is one horribly ugly concept invented by our species, this has to be it.

Generally, I do avoid political topics like the plague just for the reason that you can't expect much for your time. But the [HOAX] tag has been one of my pet peeves here for some time. In this case, it just happened to be a political topic and not one to do with Big Foot or UFOs... and now I have to get the windex to clean the spit and bovine excrement from my monitor screen, lol.

It's a matter of principle for me, not politics.

reply to post by redoubt


Like I said though, in this case it is more than simply someone's words. The material does not agree with facts. We know that Obama was born in 1961. We know that the "birth certificate" says Republic of Kenya. We know that the Republic of Kenya did not exist until 1964. There is no way to reconcile these facts unless this is a hoax. There is no politics to this decision whatsoever. In this case the facts of the case do not match with the facts of reality, ergo one must be wrong. We know the facts of reality are correct as there is plenty of documentation showing that Kenya did not gain ts independence until 1963 and that it did not become the Republic of Kenya until 1964. There are also many people alive to today who will attest to these facts as they were alive when it occurred. Therefore, the facts of the case must be wrong meaning it is a hoax.

I will agree though that the [HOAX!] label has been misused in the past. For example labeling every Billy Meier thread as a hoax. While there are certainly aspects of this case that are hoaxes without a doubt, I think it's a bit premature to claim that every aspect of a case as immense as this one is a hoax is a bit reactionary. Are the odds likely that the entire case is a hoax? Most definitely yes. That does not however mean that everything related to the case should be labeled a hoax without proper investigation. It's possible that Meier may have had a legitimate experience at one time but then surrounded himself with people who simply saw dollar signs.

As I have said there are occasions where the hoax label has been applied prematurely. However, in most cases it is used quite judiciously. In most cases a thread is not labeled as a hoax until it is proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. Such as in the case of this topic.

reply to post by Xcalibur254

As I have said there are occasions where the hoax label has been applied prematurely. However, in most cases it is used quite judiciously. In most cases a thread is not labeled as a hoax until it is proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. Such as in the case of this topic.

Based on the above statement/quote, I submit that the [HOAX] forum should be decommissioned and thus allow the individual member to judge the value of the content of any subject, post or evidence, as an individual, without the outside influence or the undue weight that the [HOAX] tag carries.

To deny ignorance, we must first deny the prejudice that is generated by this scarlet letter.

PS - Thanks for your well considered comments... they are refreshing on this particular thread

Wow...The 'TRUTH' really gets some of these comrades upset!
This is what we think of your undocumented 'take the talk.'

Now---You want to see some 'laughable' (DOCUMENTED) forgeries produced and supported by these 'lefties' friends at Soros, MoveOn,Media Matters, FactCheck,Daily Kos, PolitiFact, Fight The Smears.Huffington Post-AOL
Obama 'fraud' Birth Certificate...LOL!