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Obama's hidden birth certificate now exposed

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posted on Feb, 26 2012 @ 11:42 AM
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Obama's hidden birth certificate now exposed




[HOAX!]: Dedicated forum for ATS threads that have been proven to be hoaxes, frauds, misrepresentations, part of deceptive schemes, or grossly errant theories/speculations on a variety of topics. Topics in this forum will range from those that have proven to be an actual hoax to those where a significant majority of ATS members believe the subject matter to be based on fraudulent material.


This is one of the most glaring examples of why the [HOAX] label is grossly unhealthy while supposedly in the pursuit of denying ignorance.

First and foremost, it is political in an election year. The gives the appearance of taking sides and thus, polarizing ATS to one end of the political spectrum and alienating the opposite.

Secondly, in re the descriptive quoted above:
"Topics in this forum will range from those that have proven to be an actual hoax to those where a significant majority of ATS members believe the subject matter to be based on fraudulent material."

If one would ask the US Air Force, the subject of a UFO crashing in Roswell in 1947, has been proven to have NOT happened so... everything else related to the subject that says otherwise, is either in error or a HOAX.
But if you flip the coin and ask for a majority opinion here at ATS, you might get just the opposite.

In sum, there is no absolute, no authority that can't be challenged and no majority that can't be just simply mistaken. To draw judgment from either is the exact opposite of denying ignorance; it is practicing it as policy.

Now, this is NOT to say that in this case, the birth certificate in question is either real or fake. But, to be absolutely sure, there are those who would swear to both ends of the political argument and now... ATS has just taken sides.

I believe this to be a mistake... just as I do not agree with the use of the Scarlet Letter [HOAX] tag...

Okay, I've spoken my mind... have a nice day




posted on Feb, 26 2012 @ 11:49 AM
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reply to post by redoubt
 


The person that made this fake admitted it and called it a hoax.

Doesn't get much more definitive than that.



posted on Feb, 26 2012 @ 12:02 PM
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Originally posted by captainnotsoobvious
reply to post by redoubt
 


The person that made this fake admitted it and called it a hoax.

Doesn't get much more definitive than that.


Why do we have such an easy time believing when someone claims a hoax? What makes this claim any more believable than one of authenticity? What makes the claimant of realness a liar and the claimant of a hoax a freakin saint?

Convenience and fear, no doubt.

*sigh*

But... if you would, please take a few minutes from your busy day and review my comment. Please do note that I did NOT stake a position on the subject. If you'll get into the wording, you'll realize my post was to criticize the existence and use of the [HOAX] forum.



posted on Feb, 26 2012 @ 12:16 PM
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reply to post by redoubt
 


I know what you said. I think it's inaccurate.

Some things, in fact many many many many many things are definitely true or false.

If you accept that someone, anyone, believing something definitely false is enough to make it "not definitely untrue" then you have basically made it impossible for yourself to learn and grow.

So many things in life are grey, and many many many people believe things for no good reason (and many others lie for a plethora of reasons), none of this actually effects reality, in that you believing a lie don't change the fact it's a lie. Me disbelieving the truth doesn't make it less true.

Ignorance isn't the absence of information, it's the absence of knowledge. Lies are not the foundation of knowledge, education and experience are... in other words, knowing a lot of BS theories doesn't make you less ignorant. Knowing the truth does.

Deny ignorance, search for truth.



posted on Feb, 26 2012 @ 12:16 PM
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Originally posted by redoubt

Now, this is NOT to say that in this case, the birth certificate in question is either real or fake. But, to be absolutely sure, there are those who would swear to both ends of the political argument and now... ATS has just taken sides.

I believe this to be a mistake... just as I do not agree with the use of the Scarlet Letter [HOAX] tag...



I couldn't disagree more. IMO, the Hoax forum serves a very useful purpose and in no way does it give the impression that ATS has taken sides on an issue, but quite to the contrary, it reflects that "Truth" has taken sides on the issue. Despite this fact, there will always be some who cannot accept the truth on certain issues and that's just the way it is.

Personally, I couldn't be happier to see yet another birther thread end up exactly where it belongs, in the Hoax Forum.



posted on Feb, 26 2012 @ 12:24 PM
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reply to post by Flatfish
 


IMO all the Birther threads should start in the hoax forum and be forced to argue their way out...



posted on Feb, 26 2012 @ 12:27 PM
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reply to post by Flatfish
 




I couldn't disagree more. IMO, the Hoax forum serves a very useful purpose and in no way does it give the impression that ATS has taken sides on an issue, but quite to the contrary, it reflects that "Truth" has taken sides on the issue. Despite this fact, there will always be some who cannot accept the truth on certain issues and that's just the way it is. Personally, I couldn't be happier to see yet another birther thread end up exactly where it belongs, in the Hoax Forum.


If I may... can I assume that you do not believe the theory that Obama was born outside the US? If this is so, are you not then predisposed to discounting any evidence along those lines?

No matter.

So, here we have a case where 'truth' is the personal property of whoever claims it. I may disagree (not saying that I do) and maybe feel that my view (of any given topic) is the truth and that you (or others) are mistaken.

What gives me the right to call my views truth and yours... well, something less?

It's called 'opinion', not truth and we all have them. Once we recognize this, then we see how the concept of tagging and labeling is wrong. But, then again, our species has never been inclined to much humility. In fact, we far prefer arrogance and self-righteous decrees than looking into the mirror for very long.




posted on Feb, 26 2012 @ 12:30 PM
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Originally posted by captainnotsoobvious
reply to post by Flatfish
 


IMO all the Birther threads should start in the hoax forum and be forced to argue their way out...


Mind like a (sprung) steel trap. Very impressive.

Bravo.



posted on Feb, 26 2012 @ 12:32 PM
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I'm really impressed by this hoaxer. He admitted he punked birthers with this hoax back in 2009, then three years later birthers fell for it again.

See "The Bomford fraud". Even birther-promoter WND admits this Kenyan BC was a forgery.

Punk'd.

Again.

Classic!



ETA: WND link
edit on 26-2-2012 by Blackmarketeer because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 26 2012 @ 12:33 PM
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Easy solution, foot prints are like finger prints, they do not change . All Obama has to do is submit his foot print and problem solved; one way or the other.



posted on Feb, 26 2012 @ 12:35 PM
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reply to post by redoubt
 


I look at every bit of evidence and try and figure out if t stands up to scrutiny.

That's how I approach ATS.

At this point I assume that when I look into birther crap it will turn out to be BS. So far I have not been disappointed.

That's not the same thing as me ignoring truth due to bias.

Put it like this:

- There's definitive evidence that the people behind this so called movement choose to lie, choose to manipulate other, and choose to address real evidence. They also engage endlessly in name calling and other forms of belligerence.

- There's also definitive evidence that the main outlets pushing this are all funded by right-wing anti-Obama groups. So their bias is very evident.

- There's NO real evidence that I have seen in any of the birther threads that stands up to scrutiny.



I have read every shred of birther evidence I could find and have tried to be as open minded as I can, so that I can learn the truth.



At this point though, I'd be an idiot if I keep expecting liars to do anything but lie.

Knowledge involves collecting information from your experiences. Ignorance involves ignoring experiences.



edit on 26-2-2012 by captainnotsoobvious because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 26 2012 @ 12:37 PM
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reply to post by Blackmarketeer
 




I'm really impressed by this hoaxer. He admitted he punked birthers with this hoax back in 2009, then three years later birthers fell for it again.


Example:

I have a confession: I created/hoaxed the story of Roswell, paid the locals to back me up and had hundreds of fake newspapers printed up to distribute.

Why is what I said more or less worthy of belief than those who say it really happened?

Well, it depends on what we are predisposed to believe to begin with. If we have already formed an opinion on the subject, the claim of the hoax fits our beliefs and so we embrace it.

Same goes for other subjects that were supposedly hoaxed. We go into them already leaning.



posted on Feb, 26 2012 @ 12:37 PM
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reply to post by HamManftw
 


what a maroon.



posted on Feb, 26 2012 @ 12:40 PM
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I find the "Make your own Kenyan birth certificate site a bit of fun occasionally....



posted on Feb, 26 2012 @ 12:40 PM
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reply to post by captainnotsoobvious
 




- There's definitive evidence that the people behind this so called movement choose to lie, choose to manipulate other, and choose to address real evidence. They also engage endlessly in name calling and other forms of belligerence.
- There's also definitive evidence that the main outlets pushing this are all funded by right-wing anti-Obama groups. So their bias is very evident.
- There's NO real evidence that I have seen in any of the birther threads that stands up to scrutiny.


What makes their bias any different than your own? I mean, besides that you disagree? Don't you see that people who DO believe differently do so as honestly as yourself?

Or... do you think of people who disagree with you as purposely and knowingly making an effort to spreads lies because they are ee-ville?

Just curious.



posted on Feb, 26 2012 @ 12:42 PM
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reply to post by redoubt
 


Not all the time. You're very simple minded if you actually believe that (and I think you don't tbh).

If you ACTUALLY researched this hoax you'd see how definitive the proof is.

But here's the point:

People believe it to be true. People are shown that the information on the document is essentially nonsensical. People are shown the person who made the hoax document and hear why he did it. You can even see the tools he used to make the forgery.

www.wnd.com...

Now, after all of that if you still think it could be real, well.. what can I say... evidence is meaningless to you...



posted on Feb, 26 2012 @ 12:44 PM
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reply to post by redoubt
 


How are we different?

I don't lie about evidence.

I don't make hoax documentation to support my lies.

I don't call people frauds and worse, based on lies I've constructed.



I'm sure you don't care about those differences. I do.



posted on Feb, 26 2012 @ 12:52 PM
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reply to post by captainnotsoobvious
 




Not all the time. You're very simple minded if you actually believe that (and I think you don't tbh). If you ACTUALLY researched this hoax you'd see how definitive the proof is. But here's the point: People believe it to be true. People are shown that the information on the document is essentially nonsensical. People are shown the person who made the hoax document and hear why he did it. You can even see the tools he used to make the forgery.


One more time - my effort here is NOT to defend the birth certificate or an extranational place of birth for Mr. Obama. My purpose is to delve into the septic tank of negativity that is the force behind the [HOAX] forum and its use on certain subject matter. I am also trying to point out that none of us has exclusive rights to truth...

The birth certificate, real or unreal, merely sets the stage for the show. The actors are those who then assume to tag the subject a [HOAX] based on nothing more than an opinion.

You may find the subject to be bunk... but not everyone will. There are many who do indeed think obama was born outside the US and since they claim the same rights as you do... to express their opinions, why should they be treated as untermench? Lesser beings? What makes you and your side better then them... except for opinion and (of course) politics?

That's why I said that ATS made a mistake by tagging this a [HOAX] because it gives the appearance of taking a side in the squabble... and in an election year, to boot.

On a personal note, I distrust ALL politicians. I think they are ALL liars so... I don't have to take a side, lol!
edit on 26-2-2012 by redoubt because: typo



posted on Feb, 26 2012 @ 12:57 PM
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Originally posted by captainnotsoobvious
reply to post by redoubt
 


How are we different?

I don't lie about evidence.

I don't make hoax documentation to support my lies.

I don't call people frauds and worse, based on lies I've constructed.

I'm sure you don't care about those differences. I do.


How do I know you don't lie about evidence?
How do I know you don't hoax?
How do you know that I don't care? (Are we neighbors? Old school buddies? In-laws?)

We are complete strangers... I don't know anything about you (and really don't care to, if you don't mind). I won't judge you based on what little I've read here or on your politics. That seems a little shallow, no?

I was just carrying on a conversation... trying to define a point over and over to some who keep looking the other way lol.



posted on Feb, 26 2012 @ 12:58 PM
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Originally posted by redoubt

Originally posted by captainnotsoobvious
reply to post by redoubt
 


The person that made this fake admitted it and called it a hoax.

Doesn't get much more definitive than that.


Why do we have such an easy time believing when someone claims a hoax? What makes this claim any more believable than one of authenticity? What makes the claimant of realness a liar and the claimant of a hoax a freakin saint?

Convenience and fear, no doubt.

*sigh*

But... if you would, please take a few minutes from your busy day and review my comment. Please do note that I did NOT stake a position on the subject. If you'll get into the wording, you'll realize my post was to criticize the existence and use of the [HOAX] forum.





I respect you for playing devils advocate . But here's my question... Are we really in a day and age where the person who proves he is the creator of a hoax, isnt enough to believe its a hoax. By that measure, NOTHING in the world could be proven to be a hoax. Not everything in the whole wide world is a shade of grey. Sometimes it really is cut and dry; black and white. This is a hoax.



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