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Should we be spitting at our troops?

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posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 10:11 PM
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Originally posted by LrBc1275
From being in the military myself. First of all...I welcome you to try to spit on me. We will see how you make out with that...coward!. Secondly, I can't speak for all military persons but I think I can speak for a lot: we are not fighting for Bush, or Obama, or for oil fields or for global chess moves. We are fighting for ourselves...to get our ass home alive, and we are fighting for the guy next to us to make sure he makes it out so no friends death is on our hands.


If you had never signed up to begin with, getting home alive wouldnt be a problem, now would it?

Im amazed at how simple that logic is, but of how many in the military just dont seem to get it. If military service was MANDATORY... I can understand that sentiment. But its not. There hasnt been a draft in what, 40 years? No one forced you all into war. You put yourselves there. Claiming you are fighting to "get home" is... counterintuitive I guess is the nicest way to say it, considering no one forced you to leave home in the first place.


Originally posted by LrBc1275

War sucks....but its a job you sign up for. Think about that next time you bitch and moan about the "private sector" or union pensions, or whatever else you complain about while you sit nice and safe. Why dont you put your aggression toward real problems and not people who are just trying to make a living.


I am truly, deeply concerned how many armed service personnel just see supporting the foreign agendas of the PTB as "well... its a job, aint it!"

Im not being sarcastic at all... it is disturbing.
edit on 2/16/2012 by CaticusMaximus because: (no reason given)




posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 10:12 PM
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Originally posted by ProfEmeritus
reply to post by FortAnthem
 

I've said it many times. The way to end these wars of adventure is to send the politicians that start them to fight in those wars. This would bring an instant end to those wars.
I do not in any way blame the troops who enlist, because they think they are doing something noble, or they are enlisting because they can't get a JOB here in the US. When the politicians and the MSM stop encouraging those wars, they will end, and then perhaps, just perhaps, our military can do what the department that they are under, the DEFENSE department, is supposed to stand for- DEFENSE of our country.
Put them on the border to stop the drugs from flowing here, and put an end to the illegal entry of 15,000,000 people, who are putting a tremendous strain on state budgets.

I couldn't agree more, and if I could give out more stars on this response I would have


As for you OP, I'm sorry.. but this coming from former military member you are a disgrace for preaching such rubbish. We joined for noble causes.. not everyone is a blood thirsty killer and war monger. I served 5 years under the impression I was doing something for you, my family, and my country. "Should we be spitting on the troops"
You should be ashamed of yourself. Yea, I'm sure you will respond to this with some harsh words, and some backward a** reason why you believe this but you are wrong. Enlisted soldiers are the blue collar working man and not everyone believes (or is as informed) like us on ATS. The politicians should be the ones to suffer.. not Joe Snuffy down the street trying to make a living in the only noble way he knows.

I have been called many names for sticking up for my service to MY country.. but you know what? When the time comes that our politicians must answer for their war crimes after being caught red handed.. I would be happy to enlist in our revolutions Army.. believe that.

31b
edit on 16-2-2012 by 31Bravo because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 10:24 PM
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I am sick of tired of troop bashing. I am a veteran of OIF, and whenever I see things like this I just shake my head. I will say this, there were no WMD's found anywhere over there. OK, WE GET IT.

But, a country was freed from a tyrannical government in the process. They now have FREEDOM, that same thing you sit there and want so much from your govt but are to afraid to do anything about it except spout off on the internet like the internet version of Michael Moore. Women can now vote, something we take for granted in this country because it has been around a long time. Imagine living in America where such a simple thing as women voting is outlawed.

Despite your feelings and your theories and wherever you get your news from (apparently here), the people of Iraq do not all hate America. Actually the opposite, a large majority of the people of Iraq have no hateful feelings to the U.S despite the innocent casualites, they are a forgiving people, You forget the people of the middle east have been battling each other for centuries all the while gaining nothing in return. Not everyone in iraq is a America hating terrorist, most of them hate the taliban and just want to be free from their govt and enjoy the freedoms we have here, such as using the internet with no fear of prosecution.

You seem extremely sheltered and it seems like the world of ATS has seeped into every fabric of your being, for this I pity you. You obviously have no clue about the military or have ever spoken to a soldier face to face to see that we are not cold blooded killers, if you have ever left the safety of your doomsday shelter I'm betting you crossed paths with a soldier and never even knew it.

This is all I am going to say to you, and honestly I think I have said to much. I use to enjoy browsing the site, but the more and more I dig I see this site has no credibility seeing as how it is outnumbered with narrow minded, sheltered members like yourself. This site will no longer be on the list of sites I visit.

But in the end, I guess it takes all kinds.....



posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 10:31 PM
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reply to post by CaticusMaximus
 



What's more disturbing is seeing how well educated you think of yourself, yet watching you make many, many absurd assumptions.

I spent 10 years in the Navy. When I joined, we were at war with NO ONE.

Why did I join? I joined to learn advanced electronics. I joined to have a steady paycheck to support my family. I joined because my family would be taken care of, and would receive free medical care.
I also joined to go see the world. My father had been in for 30 years, and I got to live over seas in several different countries and thought it was pretty cool.

Then some thing happened. An idiot named Saddam decided to invade a small country called Kuwait, and my ship I was on was deployed to the Gulf.

People join the military all the time, in capacities that they know will not get them deployed to those areas. Duh.

The OP (ex military themselves) is suggesting that our military members pretty much refuse to do what they are told to do.
Well they could, and if they do it correctly, and before they are deployed, they can call themselves "Conscientious Objectors". Worked for a lot of people that did not want to be deployed during the first Gulf war.

However, I wouldn't recommend doing that once you are deployed. We call that "Mutiny" in the Navy, and during war time, it can be punishable by death. If your lucky, they'll just lock you up for the rest of your life instead.

This is because you are asking them to disobey a lawful order. What made it lawful? Why our wonderful Commander In Chief, that's who.

Roman Solder: "Mine is not to reason why. Mine is but to do or die."
Sounds stupid, but this is how the military works guys.

Oh, and OP: you are ex-military. Means you swore an oath. You may have ended your service buddy, but no one released you from your oath

Can anyone say the word: "Sedition"? Asking the US Military to openly defy the US Government?

Whew. And after the NDAA has gone up? Not a wise move.........

ETA: btw - many, many people are thanking our troops, NOT because of what war they are in, or how many people they are killing. But mainly for this simple reason:
They have volunteered to defend everyone here at home from all enemies, both foreign and domestic, with their life if necessary. Granted, getting killed over in Iraq or anywhere else may not directly protect someone here in the US. But the fact remains, the volunteered to put their lives on the line if need be.





edit on 16-2-2012 by eriktheawful because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 10:35 PM
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Spitting on people is just friggen gross and i hope you get your ass stomped for doing it.



posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 10:37 PM
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Originally posted by SharpKnife
I am sick of tired of troop bashing. I am a veteran of OIF, and whenever I see things like this I just shake my head. I will say this, there were no WMD's found anywhere over there. OK, WE GET IT.

But, a country was freed from a tyrannical government in the process. They now have FREEDOM, that same thing you sit there and want so much from your govt but are to afraid to do anything about it except spout off on the internet like the internet version of Michael Moore. Women can now vote, something we take for granted in this country because it has been around a long time. Imagine living in America where such a simple thing as women voting is outlawed.

Despite your feelings and your theories and wherever you get your news from (apparently here), the people of Iraq do not all hate America. Actually the opposite, a large majority of the people of Iraq have no hateful feelings to the U.S despite the innocent casualites, they are a forgiving people, You forget the people of the middle east have been battling each other for centuries all the while gaining nothing in return. Not everyone in iraq is a America hating terrorist, most of them hate the taliban and just want to be free from their govt and enjoy the freedoms we have here, such as using the internet with no fear of prosecution.

You seem extremely sheltered and it seems like the world of ATS has seeped into every fabric of your being, for this I pity you. You obviously have no clue about the military or have ever spoken to a soldier face to face to see that we are not cold blooded killers, if you have ever left the safety of your doomsday shelter I'm betting you crossed paths with a soldier and never even knew it.

This is all I am going to say to you, and honestly I think I have said to much. I use to enjoy browsing the site, but the more and more I dig I see this site has no credibility seeing as how it is outnumbered with narrow minded, sheltered members like yourself. This site will no longer be on the list of sites I visit.

But in the end, I guess it takes all kinds.....

Sharp...do me a small favor and don't leave. Not every one here is an ill informed, never had to make a sacrifice in their life....individual.
I am not Military but I am "CIVILIAN" in the exact way you think what the quotes mean. I am getting older and I am at a point I can refuse jobs....but when I look into the eyes of my guys....and they know I can say no but my being there gives thena better chance of getting home. I just can't say no. These people NEED help to understand that soldiers are people with a different job but are just people. Split Infinity



posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 10:45 PM
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"Sharp...do me a small favor and don't leave. Not every one here is an ill informed, never had to make a sacrifice in their life....individual.
I am not Military but I am "CIVILIAN" in the exact way you think what the quotes mean. I am getting older and I am at a point I can refuse jobs....but when I look into the eyes of my guys....and they know I can say no but my being there gives thena better chance of getting home. I just can't say no. These people NEED help to understand that soldiers are people with a different job but are just people. Split Infinity "

Took me a minute to get that, but I got it...



posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 10:45 PM
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I don't for one moment think that spitting at the troops is an appropriate response to them, at all.

I do, however, want to see the military people on this forum cease attempting to defend their own brainwashing. Ceasing to claim that they provide a service which is really in any way beneficial to society, would also help; because the simple fact is that, contrary to what they tell themselves, they don't.

I do not want to be vindictive towards soldiers. I simply want them to stop trying to claim that their contemporary role demands my respect, because I don't believe that it does. They go into foreign countries, in order to defend contractor corporations, from the efforts of the natives of said countries, to throw said corporations out. At the same time, while they are in other countries, their domestic governments decrease the level of freedom that their loved ones are experiencing at home.

So they are not defending their dependents or relatives, in any way, shape, or form. They are actually doing completely the opposite, and relying on government mind control to motivate them to continue to do so, so that they do not have to confront the potentially devastating reality.



posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 10:47 PM
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Originally posted by SharpKnife
This is all I am going to say to you, and honestly I think I have said to much. I use to enjoy browsing the site, but the more and more I dig I see this site has no credibility seeing as how it is outnumbered with narrow minded, sheltered members like yourself. This site will no longer be on the list of sites I visit.


At the risk of sounding vindictive, why should we care if you leave?

This is an illustration of the exact problem we're talking about. The troops are unhappy when they discover that the civilian population do not place the same degree of value on what they do, as they do themselves. Unfortunately however, what they are failing to recognise, is that there is a legitimate reason for that.



posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 10:51 PM
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the bottom line is that brave men know when to change. if my boss told me i had to go kill someone i'd quit my job. What is the difference? There arent justifications behind this war, everyone in the army -whether aware of their actions or not, is a murder or an assistant to murder.
edit on 16-2-2012 by biggmoneyme because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 10:55 PM
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Don't spit on them. U.S. soldiers came back from the Vietnam War and were spit on by the hippies and they did not deserve it and it broke their hearts. Stop blaming them for what Washington makes them do. If you want to spit on someone spit on Barack "thank you satan" Obama because he is the one keeping them out there when he promised to being them home when he was campaigning in 2007.

If you want to really blame someone blame all the morons out there who relentless elect these liars into office, i mean it's not like we haven't had the last 150 years to figure out that politicians are liars and will tell you anything you want to hear (except the truth) just so you will vote them in office.



posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 10:56 PM
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reply to post by 31Bravo
 


I have to get this off my chest.

Your avatar makes me dizzy and nauseous.



posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 11:01 PM
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reply to post by petrus4
 



To both your posts: please go back and read through the entire thread. I did. And not one vet on here said that they demand, or want your praise. Most have said the same thing pretty much: "I get embarrassed when people do say that to me."

We neither want, nor desire your approval. What most of us really want.....is to be left alone. But, many of us did swear to protect your right to voice what you want to say. I'm happy that you can come here and post what you think (whether or not I agree with it does not matter). After all, you could be residing in a country where your posts would get you arrested in the middle of the night, and whisked off to god knows what hole in the ground, while that' country's "political police" slowly remove your skin, inch by inch, until you confess to what they want you to confess to.

Lucky you don't have to worry about that.



posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 11:04 PM
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reply to post by biggmoneyme
 


I'm not trying to be argumentative but, would you still quit your job if it meant death or life imprisonment? because that is what you face when you are on active duty if you choose not to follow orders.



posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 11:05 PM
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My cousin came back from Iraq crazy.

I'm not yelling at him. I feel bad for him.



posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 11:05 PM
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It is really a stupid question but I ask it anyway.

Lets say, you have no job, no concrete prospect for the future, you need money and a roof above your head.

You know your government is occupied by money grabbing corrupt politicians and high ranking soldiers who have started an illegal war in order to have an excuse to take freedoms away from yourself, family and friends. they also use the opportunity to get rich quick once the country is conquered and do not give a darn about your hungry pennyless family to begin with.

You know you that the mission is to bring a country on its knees by force. There is the real chance you will die and most certainly will kill some poor basterd and cause a lot of missery for his family and friends.

I just read there is a waiting list but, would you join the army?


edit on 16/2/2012 by zatara because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 11:06 PM
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Originally posted by biggmoneyme
the bottom line is that brave men know when to change. if my boss told me i had to go kill someone i'd quit my job. What is the difference? There are justifications behind this war, everyone in the army -whether aware of their actions or not, is a murder or an assistant to murder.


Sorry. You can't quit. Not when your boss is Uncle Sugar. When you join, you sign your name on page after page of a very, VERY detailed contract that basically says: The US Government now OWNS you. (tis true. If you go out and get a very bad sun burn to where you can't perform your duties, you can be actually charge with "Destruction Of Government Property. I kid you NOT! Look it up!). And you get to swear an oath.

Oh you could just walk off and go AWOL. If you took your ID with you, 30 days later you'd be declared a deserter (if you left your ID card, you'll get declared right away), and you will be considered federal fugitive. So pack your bags and hope you can make it across the border to Mexico.

Don't do it while deployed. That would be bad.

Now, you DO have the option to NOT re-enlist, or you could find other legal ways to get out. But you can't just quit and walk away.



posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 11:12 PM
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Originally posted by eriktheawful

What's more disturbing is seeing how well educated you think of yourself, yet watching you make many, many absurd assumptions.

I spent 10 years in the Navy. When I joined, we were at war with NO ONE.

Why did I join? I joined to learn advanced electronics. I joined to have a steady paycheck to support my family. I joined because my family would be taken care of, and would receive free medical care.
I also joined to go see the world. My father had been in for 30 years, and I got to live over seas in several different countries and thought it was pretty cool.

Then some thing happened. An idiot named Saddam decided to invade a small country called Kuwait, and my ship I was on was deployed to the Gulf.


My posts have been in the context of the recent period of history concerning after the events of 9/11/2001. All my comments have been geared towards this period, more relevant closer to the present. Your reasons for joining the military 25 years ago are not immediately relevant. What is relevant is today. What is happening today, the nature of the military today, etc.

Im guessing you are referring to my comment about no one forcing him into war being absurd... in your case, that might be legitimate; 25 years ago joining the military and then a war breaking out. I can completely understand the "fight to get home" sentiment in that case... but thats not today. No one joining the military today, or in the past DECADE, thinks they are going to serve in peace time, because weve had two undeclared wars being waged for nearly that long.

TODAY, people KNOW they are going to war if they sign up. They knew 10 years ago. So the whole "were just fighting to get home" spiel isnt valid logically or otherwise in the current situation.



posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 11:13 PM
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Originally posted by zatara
It is really a stupid question but I ask it anyway.

Lets say, you have no job, no concrete prospect for the future, you need money and a roof above your head.

You know your government is occupied by money grabbing corrupt politicians and high ranking soldiers who have started an illegal war in order to have an excuse to take freedoms away from yourself, family and friends. they also use the opportunity to get rich quick once the country is conquered and do not give a darn about your hungry pennyless family to begin with.

You know you that the mission is to bring a country on its knees by force. There is the real chance you will die and most certainly will kill some poor basterd and cause a lot of missery for his family and friends.

I just read there is a waiting list but, would you join the army?


edit on 16/2/2012 by zatara because: (no reason given)


The problem is: you're assuming that everyone thinks like you, believes in what you believe in, or feels the same way as you. This, of course, is not true.

You obviously feel and think this way, so of course you would not even consider joining. Many that do join, are not even thinking about that, or in that way. And as been said on here over and over (my god, don't you people actually READ posts?), there are many, many, many different positions in the military that are not even combat involved, nor require personnel to be deployed to anywhere out side of CONUS for goodness sakes.

This is where YOU are assuming something that is not true. Please keep in mind that not all military forces are running around, armed to the teeth killing people.
I spent 10 years in the navy, and didn't kill one person. I broke some noses and some teeth in a bar brawl once, but once it was over with, the biker dude and I bought each other a beer afterwords. Sheesh.



posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 11:16 PM
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Originally posted by tangonine

Originally posted by CaticusMaximus

Originally posted by tangonine

"some are probably even pretty intelligent"

That bit right there is telling enough.


Its a logical statement. Would you say more than "some" are pretty intelligent, as in say the top 5% of the intelligence curve? I think you are still presuming I have some "animosity" for military personnel. I dont, as Ive explained.

Could you also answer my other question? I assume we are on the same page regarding the nebulous "it" since you didnt say I was wrong?

"So you know its wrong... but you do it anyway? Or do you and the others who sit the back room honestly believe you are fighting some good fight?

Some poster mentioned that RP has the majority of the military supporting him. Obviously, many of you know the war machine is wrong, and want it to end. Yet for some reason, you become a cog in it anyway, again, and again, and again?"
edit on 2/16/2012 by CaticusMaximus because: (no reason given)


I disagree with your premise and your characterization of the military as "the war machine."

Few of you are intelligent, yet nonetheless you're a "cog" in the communist conspiracy to overthrow the foundation of the united states, so how do you like that?


Sounds like youre evading a legitimate request for elaboration for whatever reason. Perhaps you do not wish to confront the answer yourself, so you avoid answering it entirely.



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