Should we be spitting at our troops?

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posted on Feb, 17 2012 @ 10:50 PM
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reply to post by ScarletWitch
 

I don't know that I can GET BY IT. I of all people have made statements that have been taken out of context on many occasion....but if you are in a Childrens Cancer Hospital...and there are alot of dying kids there as well as their parents who have to put on a BRAVE FACE FOR THE KID....all the time knowing their CHILD...THEIR BABY IS GOING TO DIE!

A Comedian comes to the Hospital with Best Intention but for whatever reason...knowing full well that these KIDS have lost their HAIR....a VERY TRAMATIC EXPERIENCE for a little kid...as well as the parents who have pictures of their childs first bath and First Hair Cut of which they have saved a LOCK of Hair from their KIDS First Haircut....and this Comedian...makes the bad choice of including in his Slap Stick Routine....a part where He pretends to have CANCER and Wakes up in a Hospital Bed Stage Set....pulling the RAINBOW COLORED HAIR OUT OF HIS HEAD AS HE PRETENDS AND ACTS SCARED!

Jerry Lewis also did something like this but his target was always a HEALTHY, OVERBEARING AUTHORITY FIGURE....someone who KIDS that had Muscular Distrophy have had telling them what they can or cannot do their whole life....so the KIDS LAUGHED and could associate with Jerry Lewis.

In the other example...the KIDS and their PARENTS had to endure the BAD CHOICE of TOPIC for an act that ANYONE should have been at the very least partially sensitive and know it was a bad choice of words. These U.S. Soldiers as well as other Military and "CIVILIAN" WARRIORS and their families are going through the same thing right now with the existance of this Topic...but they would still give their LIVES TO PROTECT SOME PERSONS RIGHT TO BE AN INSENSITIVE IDIOT!

I wonder just how much the insensitive idiot would sacrifice if he had the oppertunity to make things right! It is never too late reguardless and this is how friendships are built! Too be honest...I think a simple...I am Sorry if I offended anyone with my remarks and specificly the Topics Name...as this was not the reason for the post but I can now see how EMOTIONAL AND HEART WRENCHING AN EXPERIENCE my topic has become so I am sorry. At least...that's what I would say to the people protecting your ASS as well as not even asking you to say thank you...but you couls say sorry! Split Infinity




posted on Feb, 17 2012 @ 11:58 PM
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Originally posted by seeker1977
reply to post by SplitInfinity
 


Absolutely Split Infinity, when I was in we actually did more humanitarian duties than any attacks on anyone. Our entire crew of the ship earned the humanitarian service medal when we saved something like 200 people from a ship on fire in the middle east. Not everyone was able to take part in the direct effort of saving them because many were on duty but without everyone on the ship doing their jobs it couldn't have happened so everyone did earn it. We didn't care who they only that they needed help and I can tell you they did not speak english.

We delivered supplies to various countries in some serious hard times. Many sailors volunteered on several occasions to build various needed buildings for communities in third world countries.

You can bet though when we do fight it is against som of the most worthless scum in the world. It may not be for the reasons outlined although everyone we've fought in recent history were some of the worst uncaring, murdering, genocidal, psychopathic regimes there were. The world is a better place without Saddam Hussein and the Taliban is not much better. Anyone that supports their kind of violent history while attacking our troops for fighting is the worst kind of hypocrite there is.
edit on 17-2-2012 by seeker1977 because: typo's

I will tell you something that happened a while ago so I think I can get away with this one....the names will be changed but you will get the picture. In January 2001...I get called in to do a job. It seems that the Taliban had decided that they were going to start to Blow up with Dynamite...these Beautiful Ancient Buddhas carven into the sides of Mountains of Sandstone becausethey had declared them as PAGAN IDOLS. These Giant carvings were close to 2000 years old and there were two of them in the Bamyan Valley in the Hazarajat region which is a little over 200 Kliks out of Kabul.



posted on Feb, 18 2012 @ 12:07 AM
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reply to post by SplitInfinity
 
Continued....these Hand Carved Statues were a Treasure of the World like the Pyramids at Giza or the Mayan Temples or a multitude of ancient sites like these.
The Taliban first TOLD the International Community they were gong to blow them up....we tried to thrart this by peaceful means...it was like talking to bunch of 5 year old boys who were fighting over who would get to light the fuse or push the Electric Plunger and be the GREAT HERO WHO DESTROYED THE PAGAN IDOLS.
They are gone now...bown up by the direct Command of Mullah Mohammed Omar...a coward and a Little Boy who never grew up other than to learn how to better hurt others and destroy works of art and actualy BRAG about it!
If it was up to me...and it was not...we would have went in in Feb. of 2001. Split Infinity



posted on Feb, 18 2012 @ 12:26 AM
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reply to post by ShockTruther
 


I just would like to know who else would like to try and pretend that they are somehow superior because their religion and claim their religios beliefs only apply up until their personal lives are in danger. Apparently for Shock Truther his beliefs apply as long as he personally is not at risk. As soon as he is at risk he qill decide to ignore his beliefs and then fight because apparently in his mind no one else is as important as himself.

How exactly is that supposed to make you superior to someone that will put their lives on the line for ANYONE, not just in their country but people worldwide that are dealing with suffering. No one can judge every single soldiers personal reasons for joining. The U.S. military does more good than pretty much any other military in the world.

I would only hope that all of the whiny idiots on here get to experience life withuit the U.S. military abd get to learn what life is like for most people in the world. People in the U.S. do not have to deal with a lot of the crap simply because of our troops and our troops will go anywhere and help ANYONE, we do not fight only if our personal lives are in danger.

Many active duty members had to deal with much more than me, after all there was only once when I really thought I would die. Even that one time I did not place my importance above anyone else like ShockTruther apparently does since he will only fight if he personally is threatened. I followed my training and stayed on my station even though our chemical alarm went off and we were told it was not a drill and I was sure since I didn't have my gas mask I would die. I was determined to relay important information, if I received any and stayed on station to make sure as many of my shipmates as possible would have a chance at surviving.

At least my beliefs are not dependant on my life only, I do not feel that I am the most important person in the world like a lot of these idiots that claim the people that will fight and risk their lives for others are somehow lesser becaise we decide to fight or risk our livws without being directly threatened.

U.S. troops are average citizens, some are bad and some are good but you will most likely see a higher percentage of people that are good in the U.S. military than the average citizen anywhere.
edit on 18-2-2012 by seeker1977 because: typo
edit on 18-2-2012 by seeker1977 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 18 2012 @ 02:29 AM
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reply to post by seeker1977
 

Good post....especially the part about even though a U.S. Soldier or Sailor or Airman or Marine....or even civys that work with them...are like any other large Demographic group with some good...some bad...some smart and some Freekin' Idiots as I have had to deal with on occasion....and what makes them an Idiot is not their Knowledge or Abilities....it's how they understand and interprete WHAT IS ACTUALLY GOING ON!

You can only depend on a PAID asset to a certain degree as you can get faulty info and Data because they are either Making Up the Information just to be paid....and I will find out about this relatively in a short perod of time once on the ground. Then you have the Real Asset that wants to help make a better country and future for themselves their families and children. Their information is usually highly accurate but if they are seen with us...and we are Ghosts...then they could make the mistake of risking their lives and my Guy's lives over something that seems too good to be true but too important not to folow up on. Then you have the EYE'S in the skies and other intell. that is a big help to find out NUMBERS of the ENEMY....POSITION...and alot of other things I cannot go into. But My JOB is to TURN certain groups and determine whether to DROP them or Hire them. Split Infinity



posted on Feb, 18 2012 @ 02:47 AM
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I do agree that many join the military as they have very little other option or opportunity to earn a wage. And i do NOT agree that members in the military should be spat on at any stage. But one thing that always come to mind when hearing things like "show your soldiers the respect they deserve" is, when do the people who dont serve in the military and stay at home in their country working jobs to earn a wage which is then taxed which then goes to paying the military wage the soldiers collect and use as justification for being in the military, ever get thanked or shown respect in return ?. Respect is a 2-way street and has to be earnt before being given.
I realise that members in the military are risking their lives by doing their jobs, but the job i last worked in had the potential to kill myself and others if anything went wrong at any stage. Miners face these threats everyday, hospital staff are at risk of being attacked by a crazy or drug affected person when they are being treated everyday. People who drive on the road everyday as their job risk being killed in a car accident at any stage and so on.
Here in Australia, i had a good friend who served in the Navy for a little over 10 years and when he left, the military payed a nice little chunk off his home loan. Yet if i worked a job that wasnt in the Government/military i have to pay off the entire loan even if i worked for the same company for 30 years or more. And i would be taxed at a minimum of 33% along with the rest of Australian citizens not serving in military,which would then go towrads paying Government/Military wages/salaries. All we ever hear here is the mainsteam media's constant news coverage always saying the soldiers are "protecting our freedoms", but if those of us that didnt stay at home working everyday jobs and being taxed then Government/Military wages couldnt be paid in the first place and there'd be no "freedoms" to defend.
I guess my point is, we always have to be thankful to the soldiers, but has anyone not working in the military ever heard any soldier thank them, or show them "respect" for working jobs to be taxed to give them a wage, when that wage is what a lot of soldiers claim to be in the military for in the first place ?
I'm not saying soldiers shouldnt be shown respect, but it would be nice for those on the other side of the fence to be shown some respect back just once. Because if we didnt do what we did, you wouldnt be able to do what you do, and their would be no "freedom" to protect in the first place !



posted on Feb, 18 2012 @ 03:58 AM
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Originally posted by eriktheawful


The US Military is not defending anyone's freedom? I surely hope you meant that in being deployed to areas overseas to fight wars you feel we should not be involved in, is not "defending anyone's freedom". Else you are saying that we don't need a military period. Which in the case of a perfect world, you would be right. But we don't live in a perfect world, and if the military was not there, exactly who do you think would keep another country from just marching in and taking over?


It's primarily the GWOT, yes. WW2 is usually considered a just war; but in that scenario, it depends on who you ask. Vietnam was a sick joke; and that is the reason why when the troops came back from it, they got the reception they did from the civilian population, because said civilians felt that the military were gullible in accepting the government's rationale for it.

You don't have more information than we do. The opinions that military people express on this forum, consistently demonstrate their level of ignorance. Your superiors don't want you knowing an excessive amount about the backgrounds of various conflicts, because if you did, it might compromise your willingness to murder the people you've been ordered to.
edit on 18-2-2012 by petrus4 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 18 2012 @ 08:20 AM
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Originally posted by petrus4

Originally posted by eriktheawful


You don't have more information than we do. The opinions that military people express on this forum, consistently demonstrate their level of ignorance.


Wow, how much can you display your level of ignorance. The military actually goes to these places and gets first hand knowledge of the things going on. Many civilians sit at home feeling all superior having never seen the horrors in some countries judging others that put their lives on the line for anyone.

Tell me since you are so ALL knowing, and your knowledge is so superior to any troopsthat actually went to places and witnessed things first hand, what is this supposed information that no one else has.

Again our military does NOT murder anyone, they go out of their way to protect non-combatants in any conflict which is more than could be said for anyone we fought recently.



posted on Feb, 18 2012 @ 08:55 AM
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Not everyone in the military community is 'brainwashed' into thinking we are fighting to protect our country and/or freedoms. I think it is mostly the civilians who see the news and buy into all the lies about what it is to 'support the troops' who are fighting for the people. We actually had conversations about this in Afghanistan, and many of the troops who have been deployed are the ones that realize better than anyone else that the wars being fought have nothing to do with national defense or our freedoms. At the same time..I have also seen soldiers who are so into the fighting for freedom idea that nothing will change their view.

I've seen alot of anti-military stuff here on ATS and much of it is from people who don't seem to know what they are talking about. Saying the troops are 'x' or 'y' and robotic killing machines and such really makes no sense. There are different kinds of troops, just as their are different kinds of civilians, and there will be bad apples wherever you go. The military personnel are not the ones who should be constantly blamed for the current situation with the wars, but I suppose it's easier to blame us than it is to blame the government that is no longer representing the citizens.



posted on Feb, 18 2012 @ 09:04 AM
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Originally posted by petrus4

Originally posted by eriktheawful


The US Military is not defending anyone's freedom? I surely hope you meant that in being deployed to areas overseas to fight wars you feel we should not be involved in, is not "defending anyone's freedom". Else you are saying that we don't need a military period. Which in the case of a perfect world, you would be right. But we don't live in a perfect world, and if the military was not there, exactly who do you think would keep another country from just marching in and taking over?


It's primarily the GWOT, yes. WW2 is usually considered a just war; but in that scenario, it depends on who you ask. Vietnam was a sick joke; and that is the reason why when the troops came back from it, they got the reception they did from the civilian population, because said civilians felt that the military were gullible in accepting the government's rationale for it.

You don't have more information than we do. The opinions that military people express on this forum, consistently demonstrate their level of ignorance. Your superiors don't want you knowing an excessive amount about the backgrounds of various conflicts, because if you did, it might compromise your willingness to murder the people you've been ordered to.
edit on 18-2-2012 by petrus4 because: (no reason given)


Your reply to the part of my post you quoted, does not answer the question that I put to you in it. Instead, you list some wars and your opinion on them.

You then go on to insult the intelligence of an entire group of people on this forum, showing a very arrogant attitude. And I'm sorry, but YES, some of us military types DO have more information that you do. My head is FILLED with classified information on weapons systems, radar systems, and shipboard operations. I, like many other military personnel, had to sign a document while being processed out, that said for the next 50 years from the date of my release, if I divulge any of that classified information (unless it becomes declassified during that period), that I agree to let the federal government throw the book at me. I've got 32 more years to go.

--------------------------------------------------

Common Ground.

Threads like this really do not get anywhere, and only incite bad feelings between groups of people. However, I do believe in the OP's right to express his opinion, and of course all the posters after his first post. However, threads like this normally end up being nothing more than one large flame war. This is because the subject at hand has no common ground between groups of people that are on here.

Yes, in a perfect world, there would not be any need for military forces. In a perfect world there would not be any conflict between political powers. In a perfect world, all different religious beliefs would be in harmony and respect each other. In a perfect world, all nations would have a perfect balance of resources and not covent another countries resources.
In a perfect world, no one would go hungry. No one would be sick. Everyone instead would be dancing and singing in some musical.

However, our world is FAR from perfect, and human beings as a group are far from being perfect too.

Violence is in our nature. Actually, if you look around, you would be hard pressed to find anything on our world that isn't violent in some way. Animals and insects fight each other. Plants even "fight" for space and room to grown.
The Earth itself can be very violent.
The way stars are made starts with a violent act (reaching critical mass), and many have violent ends.
Hell, let's go back to the very beginning of the universe itself. It was called the Big Bang for a reason.

I sometimes wonder if Violence is not actually a universal law in our universe. You do have exceptions to the rule, but they are far and few, with the majority being the other way around.

Instead, why don't you actually answer the question put to you in the part of my post that you quoted?



posted on Feb, 18 2012 @ 09:17 AM
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Originally posted by SGTSECRET
I've seen alot of anti-military stuff here on ATS and much of it is from people who don't seem to know what they are talking about. Saying the troops are 'x' or 'y' and robotic killing machines and such really makes no sense. There are different kinds of troops, just as their are different kinds of civilians, and there will be bad apples wherever you go. The military personnel are not the ones who should be constantly blamed for the current situation with the wars, but I suppose it's easier to blame us than it is to blame the government that is no longer representing the citizens.


I can accept this; but there are consistent behaviour patterns that I observe among the troops on this site, which are extremely tedious.

a} Throwing tantrums and declaring that they are either leaving the thread, or the site in general, because they can't cope with us making statements that they don't like; as if we should care whether they leave anyway. You've been shot at with live ammunition, yet you can't handle someone disagreeing with you on an Internet forum?

b} Soldiers who not only accept the "fighting for freedom," canard themselves, but who aggressively attempt to ram it down the throats of the rest of us. If you want to be deluded and brainwashed, then you have every right to be. My only objection, is when some of you try and insist that I accept said delusion myself.

c} Soldiers who insist that I (or anyone else) should automatically be grateful to them for what they are doing in Afghanistan or Iraq. Sorry, but you're not getting my gratitude; and the main reason why you aren't, is because I honestly can't see any reason why you deserve it. From my own perspective, you're in those countries not to defend anyone's freedom, but actually to make sure that individuals within said countries, who actually are fighting for their own freedom, are unable to obtain it, which also at times involves committing attrocities against them. That to me is nothing that I should feel positive towards at all.

d} Soldiers who think that they're inherently superior to me. Sorry, but you aren't. You're another human being, who enlisted for whatever reason you did, and have had a particular set of experiences. In most cases, you're likely to have a fair degree more physical strength and dexterity than me, yes; but from most of my observation of you here at least, you're also usually vastly less intelligent.



posted on Feb, 18 2012 @ 09:39 AM
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Originally posted by petrus4

d} Soldiers who think that they're inherently superior to me. Sorry, but you aren't. You're another human being, who enlisted for whatever reason you did, and have had a particular set of experiences. In most cases, you're likely to have a fair degree more physical strength and dexterity than me, yes; but from most of my observation of you here at least, you're also usually vastly less intelligent.


Speaking of "consistent behavior patterns".......

You have consistently questioned the intelligence of other people on here. You base your conclusions on posts that you see on an online forum.

Your logic and scientific method is completely flawed. Where is your control group? Who are you comparing these people with? You? Have you observed these people outside of the confines of an online web site?
Have you in fact tested their intelligence with batteries of tests to come to that conclusion?

What you have done is come to a subjective opinion based upon a limited amount of data, data that is also incomplete, merely based upon your personal feelings of the original thread topic.

If you sir, feel that you are much more intelligent than people that have been in the military, that is your right to feel that way.

My FEELINGS and OPINION from my observations not only here at this forum, but in real life too, is that people that seem to have a need to constantly belittle other people's intelligence, normally do so because it's the only way that they can feel good about their own intelligence.
However, I'll admit freely that I have NO proof of this, and it's only my SUBJECTIVE, opinion.

"Intelligence is overrated. Wisdom and Common Sense is what more people need." - a good friend of mine.



posted on Feb, 18 2012 @ 09:54 AM
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Originally posted by petrus4

Originally posted by SGTSECRET
I've seen alot of anti-military stuff here on ATS and much of it is from people who don't seem to know what they are talking about. Saying the troops are 'x' or 'y' and robotic killing machines and such really makes no sense. There are different kinds of troops, just as their are different kinds of civilians, and there will be bad apples wherever you go. The military personnel are not the ones who should be constantly blamed for the current situation with the wars, but I suppose it's easier to blame us than it is to blame the government that is no longer representing the citizens.


I can accept this; but there are consistent behaviour patterns that I observe among the troops on this site, which are extremely tedious.

a} Throwing tantrums and declaring that they are either leaving the thread, or the site in general, because they can't cope with us making statements that they don't like; as if we should care whether they leave anyway. You've been shot at with live ammunition, yet you can't handle someone disagreeing with you on an Internet forum?

b} Soldiers who not only accept the "fighting for freedom," canard themselves, but who aggressively attempt to ram it down the throats of the rest of us. If you want to be deluded and brainwashed, then you have every right to be. My only objection, is when some of you try and insist that I accept said delusion myself.

c} Soldiers who insist that I (or anyone else) should automatically be grateful to them for what they are doing in Afghanistan or Iraq. Sorry, but you're not getting my gratitude; and the main reason why you aren't, is because I honestly can't see any reason why you deserve it. From my own perspective, you're in those countries not to defend anyone's freedom, but actually to make sure that individuals within said countries, who actually are fighting for their own freedom, are unable to obtain it, which also at times involves committing attrocities against them. That to me is nothing that I should feel positive towards at all.

You're just a cynical and sour person all around then aren't you? Besides, honestly I could care less if you thank me or not
I didn't do it for you directly.. although what I have accomplished was the protection of your free speech to say otherwise. I love posts like these.. they show the true colors of people, and a good degree of how they are an addition to the problem and not trying to be apart of a solution, *tsk* *tsk*

I especially like this one...


d} Soldiers who think that they're inherently superior to me. Sorry, but you aren't. You're another human being, who enlisted for whatever reason you did, and have had a particular set of experiences. In most cases, you're likely to have a fair degree more physical strength and dexterity than me, yes; but from most of my observation of you here at least, you're also usually vastly less intelligent.

You sound like that fat kid that never got picked for kickball. Who has personally picked on you on ATS? Seriously though, how can you tell how smart someone is on ATS?
Perhaps they are 'vastly less intelligent' because they don't agree with you? hmm think about that one.
edit on 18-2-2012 by 31Bravo because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 18 2012 @ 09:54 AM
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reply to post by petrus4
 


Honestly, you are being very narrow minded by putting us in groups like that. I do not fit in any of those groups. I don't demand respect from anyone and I don't go around saying I fought for your freedoms either. I also do not see myself as superior to any human being. I could talk about constant patterns from people on this site, but I try not to group people together under the same assumption becaue everyone is different. Anyway, just thought I would point a few things out.

Feel free to come back at me with a slew of insults and a few jabs at my intelligence please.
edit on 18/2/12 by usmc0311 because: added material



posted on Feb, 18 2012 @ 08:48 PM
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Originally posted by usmc0311
reply to post by petrus4
 


Honestly, you are being very narrow minded by putting us in groups like that. I do not fit in any of those groups. I don't demand respect from anyone and I don't go around saying I fought for your freedoms either. I also do not see myself as superior to any human being. I could talk about constant patterns from people on this site, but I try not to group people together under the same assumption becaue everyone is different. Anyway, just thought I would point a few things out.

Feel free to come back at me with a slew of insults and a few jabs at my intelligence please.
edit on 18/2/12 by usmc0311 because: added material


One thing my service taught me was this: judge people based on their behavior and effort, that is all.

Stereotyping is what weak-minded lazy people do.



posted on Feb, 18 2012 @ 08:54 PM
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Originally posted by CaticusMaximus
These two quotes are quotes to live by, and espouse principles that truly could pave the way to a better world. I think they are pertinent to the topic where it is now.

"The pioneers of a warless world are the young men and women who refuse military service." - Albert Einstein

"There is no way to peace; peace IS the way". - Gandhi.

For those who truly want peace in their hearts, but misguidedly think supporting a military who is the play thing of corrupt and wicked men is the answer, ruminate on those two quotes for a while. They are both profound statements steeped in deep wisdom, and so very elegant in their simplicity.

They are especially relevant at a time like now when the United States is the sole aggressor, and there is no real external threat that in any way, shape, or form, justifies the campaigns of offense having been waged for over a decade now based on a false flag event.
edit on 2/17/2012 by CaticusMaximus because: (no reason given)


As a member of the armed forces of the US, I'll tell you with no reservation that the person that prays for peace the most is the soldier.

But you tipped your hand with the "United States is the sole aggressor" bit. That naivete is the root of the problem. You actually think, that of the billions of people on this earth living under oppressive regimes, the US is the aggressor? You spent too much time on your knees in your lit professor's office, girl.



posted on Feb, 19 2012 @ 01:00 AM
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Originally posted by tangonine
As a member of the armed forces of the US, I'll tell you with no reservation that the person that prays for peace the most is the soldier.

But you tipped your hand with the "United States is the sole aggressor" bit. That naivete is the root of the problem. You actually think, that of the billions of people on this earth living under oppressive regimes, the US is the aggressor? You spent too much time on your knees in your lit professor's office, girl.

It makes the US soldiers feel better when they are convinced, that they are fighting for freedom and human rights. Who wants to kill for war-profiteers and spill innocent blood only to help already rich men to get even richer? Only sociopaths can admit this to themselves without having a troubled conscience.

Of cause US interventions are always welcomed by some people. Opposition forces oftentimes welcome foreign interventions. The same is true for the new ruling elite and their cronies.

But apart from showing military strength as a deterrence (Cold War) against potential invaders or the ejection of a foreign invader (Kuwait) I don't know one (post WWII) example of an US military intervention or US-backed coup, which was good for the average citizens and was welcomed by them. One example in which the citizens look back and say: “Good, the the US helped us get rid of this vile dictator and brought us freedom.”

Since I mostly read anti-war news I have perhaps just a warped perspective. Perhaps you can illuminate me. Where has the US intervened with military force and was welcomed by the majority of the citizenry? In which country has the population now a more positive feeling towards the US than before the intervention? I am really interested in your opinion and backing sources. Here is a long but uncomplete list of US interventions.
academic.evergreen.edu...



posted on Feb, 19 2012 @ 02:46 AM
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reply to post by Drunkenshrew
 


I will give two examples.

Christmas day 1989, I walked into a small town in Panama with my unit, it was around 6:00 am. We had flown over the town on our way to landing. Before we rounded a corner into town we heard all kinds of commotion and noise. When we get into town all of the citizens were in the streets with Panamanian flags and US flags. They treated us like saviors for getting rid of Noriega and his henchmen. We had the local henchman in custody at thier headquarters. Later that night most of the males from the village came to the building and demanded we hand over the thug. We didn't because the noose they were carrying summed up what they wanted to do. Until you have lived under a dictatorlike that you will not understand. The average people from Panama were extremely happy to be free of Noriega and his henchmen.

As a side note I am not sure how they are doing now. The last government I checked on for them had made all of his henchmen "heroes" and made 20 DEC a national memorial day. It is all about the money. Drugs come through there and it is very profitable. We won't get into the politics of the whole thing ie; Noriega CIA trained and all of that.

Afghanistan: The average Afghan loves the US. It takes a while to gain thier trust, but they are happy to be out from under the Taliban, especially the women and children. The Taliban had moral police and committed numerous atrocities against the normal people. They were fighting for survival, and not with weapons but thier hard work. This country is something from biblical times if you have read that book. Have we fixed thier problems? NO, that government is way too corrupt for 11 years to fix. Most of those people just want what we want in the west, to live their life and take care of their family. The tribal element in Afghanistan is something to be studied and observed first hand. Some gather an army and collect taxes from everyone close. Some just take care of the village. But every Afghan (except for a few) that I have had the honor of working and associating with are outstanding people, that is once you earn their trust. Again we haven't fixed the problem yet but we made it a little easier for them getting rid of the radicals.

My sources are my first hand travels in those countries. If you want to verify please do by travelling there and seeing first hand how they feel.
edit on 19-2-2012 by rockledr because: sources



posted on Feb, 19 2012 @ 02:55 AM
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reply to post by Kali74
 


Wow, I have read some of your other posts and thought there is no way we could agree on anything, but that was the best reponse I have seen and yes a lot are awake and will do what is needed when enough support is there to do it.

HAHA. Now I have made the top of the DHS watchlist.



posted on Feb, 19 2012 @ 12:06 PM
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reply to post by Drunkenshrew
 


I happened to be on the ground in Iraq when the first national elections took place. I was in Fallujah located in the Al Anbar Province. That day we experienced thousands of people coming up to us crying and overcome with joy because they have never had a say in what goes on in their country. The women were especially gratefull for it was the first time an Iraqi woman could legally vote. These were the same people who left their city in order for us to come root out the jihadists and were thankfull for us doing so. During this time I was embedded with the Iraqi Army as a member of a foreidn military training unit. Our soldiers that we were working with were so happy about having the freedom to vote that they threw a celebration that night in honor of The U.S. Military and all that we had done for them. My source is my first hand accounts of what transpired. Although if you do a search on the web for stories from the media you should have no problem finding what you are looking for. Good Luck.
edit on 19/2/12 by usmc0311 because: added content.





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