Should we be spitting at our troops?

reply to post by usmc0311


But thats the american way right?? Blame it on somebody else, and make somebody else take care of it. Thats what most americans do.

Originally posted by CarlyDee
First post here, long time lurker. Decided to sign up after reading this post, as I feel I may offer some insight.

Being a military wife, I'm around the troops all the time. I can tell you this - they're not stupid. They all know they aren't fighting for our country. It's just a job for them. A paycheck. They all understand that these wars are not about what they're telling us they're about. They aren't proud of what the military is doing over there. But hey - what can you do? Signing up for the military is easy, and a guaranteed paycheck with lots of great benefits. That's the only reason they signed up. They aren't delusional.

edit on 16-2-2012 by CarlyDee because: (no reason given)

So they are amoral opportunists, kinda? Like mercenaries who will murder for money? Hitmen for Big Brother, you could say?

I guess it would make sense that most or all of the principled soldiers by this time have left, and those with principles and morals and half a brain nowadays simply never sign up.

Originally posted by tangonine

Then perhaps your animosity is misdirected, and should be aimed at TPTB. What you're doing is hating the people executing national policy instead of the people that dictate that policy. Don't hate the player, hate the game, my friend.

No animosity. Simply, no respect. Those two things are not synonymous.

Like I said, respect for those who fight just battles. None for those who fight illegal wars of conquest, which the US is engaged in right now, which is blatantly obvious.

Originally posted by andersensrm
reply to post by usmc0311

 

But thats the american way right?? Blame it on somebody else, and make somebody else take care of it. Thats what most americans do.

I know, it's disgusting what some people have become. I was raised to be responsible for my own actions. I guess that philosophy has been thrown out the window.

Originally posted by tangonine

You say you're a military wife, but I can tell you that you're half right. There are those that just serve for the paycheck, and that's ok. Then there are others.

Those, that when the command chief, or the command sergeant major comes around and says: "again?" They sit quietly, they don't talk to their wives, they spend a day or a week or a month deciding. And then in a quiet back room someplace, hands clasped, we make the decision and do it again. and again. and again. No one else will understand but those that have sat in that room, whatever decision they made. But I guarantee you this: it's not the paycheck.

So you know its wrong... but you do it anyway? Or do you and the others who sit the back room honestly believe you are fighting some good fight?

Some poster mentioned that RP has the majority of the military supporting him. Obviously, many of you know the war machine is wrong, and want it to end. Yet for some reason, you become a cog in it anyway, again, and again, and again?

Originally posted by CarlyDee
First post here, long time lurker. Decided to sign up after reading this post, as I feel I may offer some insight.

Being a military wife, I'm around the troops all the time. I can tell you this - they're not stupid. They all know they aren't fighting for our country. It's just a job for them. A paycheck. They all understand that these wars are not about what they're telling us they're about. They aren't proud of what the military is doing over there. But hey - what can you do? Signing up for the military is easy, and a guaranteed paycheck with lots of great benefits. That's the only reason they signed up. They aren't delusional.

Glad to see my ravings prompted you to sign up here and join the conversation. Welcome to ATS.

I'm happy to hear that most of the troops know what's going on and aren't living under the delusion that they are protecting "freedom". I hope that, if enough of them wake up to the truth, they will find the courage to stand up and refuse to fight in these unjust wars anymore. Sure, a lot of them may end up in the brig for their defiance but, if they can inspire a groundswell, maybe they can put a stop to these useless wars.

A lot of people have been saying that the soldiers signed up because they had no other options. Makes me wonder if part of the motivation for the financial collapse (don't try to tell me it wasn't planned, they all were) was to drive our youth to be desperate enough to keep the armed forces filled with new recruits to fight in war after war after war...

Originally posted by CaticusMaximus

Originally posted by tangonine

You say you're a military wife, but I can tell you that you're half right. There are those that just serve for the paycheck, and that's ok. Then there are others.

Those, that when the command chief, or the command sergeant major comes around and says: "again?" They sit quietly, they don't talk to their wives, they spend a day or a week or a month deciding. And then in a quiet back room someplace, hands clasped, we make the decision and do it again. and again. and again. No one else will understand but those that have sat in that room, whatever decision they made. But I guarantee you this: it's not the paycheck.

So you know its wrong... but you do it anyway? Or do you and the others who sit the back room honestly believe you are fighting some good fight?

Some poster mentioned that RP has the majority of the military supporting him. Obviously, many of you know the war machine is wrong, and want it to end. Yet for some reason, you become a cog in it anyway, again, and again, and again?

edit on 2/16/2012 by CaticusMaximus because: (no reason given)

You're assuming that I agree that "it's" wrong. What is "it's?" You do understand that the US military doesn't wholly consist of a giant mob of infantry in one place, right? Your simplistic, stereotypical view might be the root of the problem.

Originally posted by usmc0311

Originally posted by andersensrm
reply to post by usmc0311

 

But thats the american way right?? Blame it on somebody else, and make somebody else take care of it. Thats what most americans do.

I know, it's disgusting what some people have become. I was raised to be responsible for my own actions. I guess that philosophy has been thrown out the window.

Yeap, I have no expectation that anyone will ever take care of myself except myself. Just to give an idea, there was a mandate here in california, for some kind of transfer program into kindergarten, it was written into law, it was budgeted. But guess what we don't have it. Just goes to show you, just because its mandated, and budgeted, doesn't mean its going to happen. Expand that out to pensions, SS, everything. This is just reality, and when the time comes people won't be prepared, because they think they can fall back on these things, because the government guarentees it. But just because the government guarentees it, doesn't mean that its guarenteed no matter what. Thats just the way I was raised to think, and thinking this way means your always prepared for anything. But unfortuantely people don't think this way, and then when they land in a bad spot they're pretty much SOL and thats when people start getting hurt, or killed.

reply to post by FortAnthem


More than anything, I would say the issue of your thread isn't "politically correct." I agree that these occupations and wars overseas are not preserving our freedom. Heck we lost the war in Vietnam, the Korean War was a stalemate, the money spent on the Iraq and Afghanistan war has hurt our economy, and still our supposed freedoms haven't been taken away.

The biggest threat to American freedom is within. Sending jobs overseas, corporations buying votes and influencing our politicians, oil companies blocking new sources of energy and research, career politicians getting too much power and influence, excessive military spending, excessive taxes, reductions in corporate regulations and the lack of spending oversight on domestic programs is the real threat to our freedoms and our way of life.

Paychecks and a threat of imprisonment has a way of keeping soldiers and police in-line from not questioning their duties and orders. I just hope if our government should ever turn on its citizens, our police and military will understand their real roll in protecting and defending our freedoms.

reply to post by tangonine


I assume your "it" is going back to war again and again and again. Are you referring to doing something else again and again?

I wouldn't spit on them for just following orders, but I would spit, urinate and defecate on the ones who rape, murder and torture innocent men, women and children.

Originally posted by CaticusMaximus

Originally posted by tangonine

Then perhaps your animosity is misdirected, and should be aimed at TPTB. What you're doing is hating the people executing national policy instead of the people that dictate that policy. Don't hate the player, hate the game, my friend.

No animosity. Simply, no respect. Those two things are not synonymous.

Like I said, respect for those who fight just battles. None for those who fight illegal wars of conquest, which the US is engaged in right now, which is blatantly obvious.

edit on 2/16/2012 by CaticusMaximus because: (no reason given)

So the guy on the carrier that cleared the F-18 for a strike mission he has NO IDEA where it's going isn't worthy of your respect. Or the pilot that got a target package 20 minutes after wishing his daughter happy birthday over a milsatcom vehicle maintained by some AF guy who had to work a triple shift due to the snow... they don't deserve your respect... Well, at the end of the day, I'm **certain** they hold you in the same regard.

So the question is: do you want to alienate yourself from 1/3 of the population because you stereotype people and don't have the emotional ability to differentiate on an individual level, or would you like to solve what's wrong? Because what you're doing isn't solving anything, it's making the divide wider. Trust me.

The only part that I agree with in the OP is the fighting for freedom part. They are not fighting for our freedom. What they are fighting for is to stop a bunch of nut cases from hijacking our airplanes and flying them into buildings, to stop terrorist from taking over our country. I think they have done a good job so far because none of them have hijacked another plane since the wars have started and nearly 5,000 of them have given their lives in the process.

Any of you that have a problem with video's of soldiers urinating on bodies of enemy soldiers, tough! If you have a problem with terrorist having humiliating pics taken of them, tough! I'm sure that those people that had their heads cut off would have loved to had humiliating pics taken of them instead.

Evidently, you people have no idea of what war is and what those terrorist are capable of. I'll bet that if one of them terrorist was trying to chop your head off, you would be begging those same soldiers to stop them. They deserve YOUR respect!!!!

I completely agree with you! How dare we judge and beliitle people that served our country in what way they saw best.

By the way, I love the banana Uzi and the Hammer reference! Classic.

Originally posted by MBF
The only part that I agree with in the OP is the fighting for freedom part. They are not fighting for our freedom. What they are fighting for is to stop a bunch of nut cases from hijacking our airplanes and flying them into buildings, to stop terrorist from taking over our country. I think they have done a good job so far because none of them have hijacked another plane since the wars have started and nearly 5,000 of them have given their lives in the process.

Any of you that have a problem with video's of soldiers urinating on bodies of enemy soldiers, tough! If you have a problem with terrorist having humiliating pics taken of them, tough! I'm sure that those people that had their heads cut off would have loved to had humiliating pics taken of them instead.

Evidently, you people have no idea of what war is and what those terrorist are capable of. I'll bet that if one of them terrorist was trying to chop your head off, you would be begging those same soldiers to stop them. They deserve YOUR respect!!!!

We don't ask for your respect. It wouldn't make a difference one way or the other.

GIVE ME A BREAK THEY R ONLY FOLLOWING ORDERS!!!! NO CHOICE srry [[[[ caps ]] but anyways they r orders and they have no choice they r dicaplined that way ... sorta brain washed if u will... but they r ours and we should all be greatful,even if we don't like what they r doing

Originally posted by tangonine

So the guy on the carrier that cleared the F-18 for a strike mission he has NO IDEA where it's going isn't worthy of your respect. Or the pilot that got a target package 20 minutes after wishing his daughter happy birthday over a milsatcom vehicle maintained by some AF guy who had to work a triple shift due to the snow... they don't deserve your respect... Well, at the end of the day, I'm **certain** they hold you in the same regard.

All cogs, gears, sprockets, pinions, racks, nuts and bolts, belts and chains in the same machine of war.

I dont DISrespect them. I just dont see them, as willing integral pieces of a war machine, to be in respectable lines of work. Sure, they are brave, tough, resilient, and some are probably even pretty intelligent... but that doesnt make their chosen career an honorable one.

Originally posted by usmc0311

Originally posted by spinalremain

Originally posted by usmc0311
reply to post by Hawking

 

Have you ever served? Not asking argumentatively, just for reference. I ask this because yes, alot are duped as I once was. Now I joined before the wars but when they came along i belived the story just as everyone else. And this is still happening everyday. And just for your own knowledge, not everyone in the military kills people. There are many jobs that never even put people in those situations. There is alot of dissention in the ranks right now and sooner or later it will reach critical mass and we may just see an end to the madness that has been occuring. Could you imagine if we took the resources put into these wars and used them to better our infrastructure and repair our rundown cities here in America. But no, we have politicians that all want to be kings and will screww whoever over to get it. I find it shamefull that so many put hatred twoards the troops when the hatred should be directed in other places.

edit on 16/2/12 by usmc0311 because: spelling

Why can't our politicians think like you do?

A former military man even admits that our problems are not SS, or Medicare, or food stamps for cryin out loud. It's the ludicous defense budget and the constant policing of the global conflicts that keeps this country in a ridiculous constant state of debt. Blaming the deficit on SS or Medicare is like blaming global warming on farting.

People like me care about to many other people to actually get anywhere in government. The ones who can't be bought are pushed out or scandalized untill their political careers are over. So many other military members are on at least a simalar page as me. It took alot for me to get where I am today and I have no problem admitting truths that I used to support or deny. The only way we can learn is from experience, and mistakes. And learning from our mistakes seems to be the most effective. I just wish more people could look past things like laying blame on a single group of people and realize that we are all going to have to work together to make this world a better place for our children to thrive in.

edit on 16/2/12 by usmc0311 because: poor grammer

Don't mean to sound too cheezy, but that was pretty awesome.
I'd have to agree with the idea that empirical evidence or first hand knowledge and learning from mistakes is in fact the best way to achieve "truth".

The sad part is that most adults are far too prideful, stubborn or indoctrinated in their beliefs to ever admit wrongdoing or that their beliefs are outdated.

reply to post by spinalremain


They also fall victim to "motivated reasoning". Look it up, its how even critically thinking highly educated adults can get caught up in falsities, and deny things even if they are fact.

I respect anyone who fights for their country, I do not support world powers getting involved in the Middle East.

I fully support spitting on corrupt politicians though. /spit