Should we be spitting at our troops?

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posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 11:24 PM
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Originally posted by eriktheawful

Sorry. You can't quit. Not when your boss is Uncle Sugar. When you join, you sign your name on page after page of a very, VERY detailed contract that basically says: The US Government now OWNS you. (tis true. If you go out and get a very bad sun burn to where you can't perform your duties, you can be actually charge with "Destruction Of Government Property. I kid you NOT! Look it up!). And you get to swear an oath.

Oh you could just walk off and go AWOL. If you took your ID with you, 30 days later you'd be declared a deserter (if you left your ID card, you'll get declared right away), and you will be considered federal fugitive. So pack your bags and hope you can make it across the border to Mexico.

Don't do it while deployed. That would be bad.

Now, you DO have the option to NOT re-enlist, or you could find other legal ways to get out. But you can't just quit and walk away.


So literally... you sign up to be a paid slave. That sounds like one of the best reasons Ive ever heard not to enlist in the military.
edit on 2/16/2012 by CaticusMaximus because: (no reason given)




posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 11:25 PM
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reply to post by CaticusMaximus
 


Ah! But see, here is where I get to say to you: WRONG.

My oldest son just joined the Air Force. After extensive testing at MEPPS, he took a look at what jobs were open to him. Turns out he has a very good aptitude for languages. So much so, that they put him through more tests. He's now a Crypto Linguist. He scored high enough that he gets to pick his language, which was German. He wants to be deployed to Germany so he can enjoy being there.

Now, he didn't join because there is war, nor because he wants to go to war. He was SMART about how he joined and what job he would have, so that he could still be in, reap the benefits of the pay and medical care, learn to be a linguist, and get the government to pay for his education, all while AVOIDING going to a war.

Pretty smart in my book. Once he has his degree, he can get out, without owing a ton in student loans. He won't be deployed to an actual war zone, and once he gets out? Companies pay well for good linguists.

Now sir I ask you: should he be "spit upon"? Should he be accused of knowingly joining while there is a war?

I think he should be patted on the back for thinking of a way to take advantage of the system, without actually inflicting harm on others, or being involved in a war that he's not wanting to be in.



posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 11:25 PM
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Wow, some of the posts here are amazing. The idea, and the title especially, behind this thread is flat stupid and I would bet the thread maker would never dare challenge any of our troops.

Does our leadership and politians lie about why we do things and why we go to war, absolutely. Whose fault is that, the average american citizen that voted them in power. All of the whiners trying to blame our soldiers for problems created right here at home.

I'm ex Navy and all males in my immediate family are ex military of some sort for the United States. I spent probably 3 and a half years overseas and spent about half of that time around Iraq. Sure leadership lied about why we were there but our soldiers, sailors and marines never did anything like some of the posters here claimed.

What did our troops accomplish overall in Iraq, well we got rid of a mass murdering psycopath that attempted genocide of the Kurds in his country. Yeah who cares though, it's so much easier to turn a blind eye and ignore all of the horrible things in the world sitting comfortably on your couch watching the latest sitcom or the news complaining about other people actually doing something.

The military are average citizens who join for many reasons, sure some will turn out bad but if you compare the percentage of military that do horrible things to civilians I'll bet you'd be surprised. Our military goes out of their way risking their own lives in many cases of there is a chance to save someone percieved as a non-combatant, whether they turn out to be a non-combatant or not and many times that is not clear.

I don't agree with all of the wars and I wanted to do more in some cases where we had first hand knowledge of horrible acts being commited to everyone, including children. I would have killed people if given the oportunity to put an end to the things we knew were going on. Where I was on a ship was relatively safe though, there was only once when I thought I was going to die but never did I have a chance to kill or hurt anyone.

Our troops perform their duties in a tough job, with reasons not always clear, in the absolute best way possible. Of course where they go there is almost no freedoms, reports coming from their news stations are anti american propaganda because the criminals in power don't want to lose power. The war in Iraq was not for the average Americans freedoms but we sure as hell accomplished something good there the whole time doing everything possible to avoid civilian casualties where as Iraqis in power didn't give the same consideration. As for other wars, well there are probably much better ways to fight terrorism such as small precision strikes but I am not in power. None of the people whining here are in power either apparently, if you don't like it do something about it but don't blame the troops. Try to get in power to make changes or at least educate yourselfs about candidates when you vote, otherwise shut up.
edit on 16-2-2012 by seeker1977 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 11:26 PM
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I don't know about you, but what I am sick and tired of, is people like you bashing our troops. I would love to see your voting record. I suspect you are part of the two party system which is actually the same party. You vote them in, then when they start a conflict you blame those that serve. Are you a government troll trying to deflect blame onto the troops so people are not looking at the guilty parties?

If you believe that if we did not have a military we would live life just the same, I have ocean view property in Nebraska I would like to sell you.

You should be thanking every kid (including yourself) for serving this great nation, so we won't have to see what things would be like if kids did not serve.

I do not know your personal story, but many of these kids sign up for survival. A chance to have a better life. A chance to eat three meals a day, have a roof over their head, get educated or taught a trade and do something that they see and feel is important. Only a very small percentage of US servicemen and women actually kill anyone, did you?

There are many ways to attack our military and propaganda is one of them. Now go back to your master and tell him you are sorry for not convincing the people that troops are responsible. Let him know, that we know the responsibility lies with the governments (and the super wealthy) that send these kids into foreign conflicts.

I don't hear you blaming Boeing for making military drones, Lockhead for making fighter jets, just the kids.
edit on 16-2-2012 by Sharpenmycleats because: Erased some content by mistake.



posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 11:35 PM
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NO......THE INTENT should be the most important thing. Im sure the intent was good when these guys joined. they have been mindscrewed. Like Ron Paul said, they dont even know why they are there. Im sure being in the military has its negative and disinformative effects on those guys and some are not so stupid. Look how much they are sending to Ron Paul in donations, six times everyone else combined...NO SPITTING,,spit on the president that sent them there undeclared.



posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 11:36 PM
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Originally posted by CaticusMaximus

Originally posted by eriktheawful

Sorry. You can't quit. Not when your boss is Uncle Sugar. When you join, you sign your name on page after page of a very, VERY detailed contract that basically says: The US Government now OWNS you. (tis true. If you go out and get a very bad sun burn to where you can't perform your duties, you can be actually charge with "Destruction Of Government Property. I kid you NOT! Look it up!). And you get to swear an oath.

Oh you could just walk off and go AWOL. If you took your ID with you, 30 days later you'd be declared a deserter (if you left your ID card, you'll get declared right away), and you will be considered federal fugitive. So pack your bags and hope you can make it across the border to Mexico.

Don't do it while deployed. That would be bad.

Now, you DO have the option to NOT re-enlist, or you could find other legal ways to get out. But you can't just quit and walk away.


So literally... you sign up to be a paid slave. That sounds like one of the best reasons Ive ever heard not to enlist in the military.
edit on 2/16/2012 by CaticusMaximus because: (no reason given)


Your replies are starting to get pretty week there. Do you even have any idea what it's like to be a slave?

If we were slave, we were the best darn paid slaves, with great medical benefits, 30 days paid vacation every year (you earn 2.5 days each month), which you can either take or cash in. Extremely technical educations (I was taught in 6 months, what most college students take 4 years to learn in the field of electronics and microwave propagation), and if you stay in for 20 years, you get half your monthly pay for the rest of your life. Stay in for 30 years and you get 3/4 of it for the rest of your life.

You obviously do not understand how the military works (or you think you do, but you are seriously lacking in that understanding), and have pronounced judgement based upon your opinion and views, instead of actual knowledge or experience.

IF we lived in a utopia of a world, with NO political differences, no religious anomosity....you know...that perfect world that does not exist, then there would not be any need for any country to have any military at all (or law enforcement for that mater).

But we do not live in a world like that.



posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 11:39 PM
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Originally posted by eriktheawful
reply to post by CaticusMaximus
 


Ah! But see, here is where I get to say to you: WRONG.

My oldest son just joined the Air Force. After extensive testing at MEPPS, he took a look at what jobs were open to him. Turns out he has a very good aptitude for languages. So much so, that they put him through more tests. He's now a Crypto Linguist. He scored high enough that he gets to pick his language, which was German. He wants to be deployed to Germany so he can enjoy being there.

Now, he didn't join because there is war, nor because he wants to go to war. He was SMART about how he joined and what job he would have, so that he could still be in, reap the benefits of the pay and medical care, learn to be a linguist, and get the government to pay for his education, all while AVOIDING going to a war.

Pretty smart in my book. Once he has his degree, he can get out, without owing a ton in student loans. He won't be deployed to an actual war zone, and once he gets out? Companies pay well for good linguists.


I agree, he played it well.


Originally posted by eriktheawful

Now sir I ask you: should he be "spit upon"? Should he be accused of knowingly joining while there is a war?


No one need be spit on. Come on now, you said you read every post in this thread



Originally posted by eriktheawfulI think he should be patted on the back for thinking of a way to take advantage of the system, without actually inflicting harm on others, or being involved in a war that he's not wanting to be in.


The vast majority of people who join the military do not have a well thought out plan on how to take advantage of the system while directly harming none, and depending on the position, debateably indirectly harming none. If they did, there would be no more wars because everyone would be a linguist or a radar operator or a diesel mechanic or a computer programmer.

There are exceptions, certainly, that can be pointed out to prove that not ALL military personnel have a prominent role in directly nor indirectly harming others. But they are exceptions to the rule.



posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 11:46 PM
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Originally posted by usmc0311
reply to post by biggmoneyme
 


I'm not trying to be argumentative but, would you still quit your job if it meant death or life imprisonment? because that is what you face when you are on active duty if you choose not to follow orders.


yes.



posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 11:49 PM
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Originally posted by eriktheawful

Your replies are starting to get pretty week there. Do you even have any idea what it's like to be a slave?


My reply was dead on.

You said: "Sorry. You can't quit. Not when your boss is Uncle Sugar. When you join, you sign your name on page after page of a very, VERY detailed contract that basically says: The US Government now OWNS you. (tis true. If you go out and get a very bad sun burn to where you can't perform your duties, you can be actually charge with "Destruction Of Government Property. I kid you NOT! Look it up!). And you get to swear an oath."

Webster says: slave
noun
1. a person who is the property of and wholly subject to another; a bond servant.

I said: "So literally... you sign up to be a paid slave. That sounds like one of the best reasons Ive ever heard not to enlist in the military."

Unless what you said was false, my observation was completely true. Literally, you sign up to be a slave. Whether you perceive it as slavery as you commonly think of it or not doesnt matter. Literally, if your comment is accurate, what you signed up for was slavery.

Even if the benefits were relatively good, doesnt sound like something I, or others if they knew, would readily sign up for.
edit on 2/16/2012 by CaticusMaximus because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 11:52 PM
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Originally posted by eriktheawful
reply to post by CaticusMaximus
 


Ah! But see, here is where I get to say to you: WRONG.

My oldest son just joined the Air Force. After extensive testing at MEPPS, he took a look at what jobs were open to him. Turns out he has a very good aptitude for languages. So much so, that they put him through more tests. He's now a Crypto Linguist. He scored high enough that he gets to pick his language, which was German. He wants to be deployed to Germany so he can enjoy being there.

Now, he didn't join because there is war, nor because he wants to go to war. He was SMART about how he joined and what job he would have, so that he could still be in, reap the benefits of the pay and medical care, learn to be a linguist, and get the government to pay for his education, all while AVOIDING going to a war.

Pretty smart in my book. Once he has his degree, he can get out, without owing a ton in student loans. He won't be deployed to an actual war zone, and once he gets out? Companies pay well for good linguists.

Now sir I ask you: should he be "spit upon"? Should he be accused of knowingly joining while there is a war?

I think he should be patted on the back for thinking of a way to take advantage of the system, without actually inflicting harm on others, or being involved in a war that he's not wanting to be in.





Sorry to rain on your parade, but if a big enough conflict erupted your linguist would be in the battle one way or the other, Fighting. It is sad your only pride is your belief that he joined to exploit the benefits of the system. Unlike you I bet he is proud of his wings and the military he is serving. Good Grief.



posted on Feb, 17 2012 @ 12:14 AM
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I am a Patriot. I am also a "CIVILIAN" who from time to time...works with the best and most Honorable people on Earth. You see things in a particular view and sometimes you are right and there are people out there who take advantage of the way funds are appropriated. But there is an overall plan.

This plan is and has been designed to allow the United States to spend some much needed money on infrastructure as very soon the next economic driving tech. will be available to fuel the U.S. Economy. This has happened time and time again.

Just about every world changing technology has been of American Design over the last 100 plus years. The thing is...unlike the past...we need to make a fundemental shift in how we use clean energy sources. There are going to be a few of you out there who will say...Global Warming is a Myth....but that's not how the U.S. Military views it as our Military has been planning for protection of shiping lanes in a ICELESS Northern Polar Cap.

This information is available to all and at the current rate of Sea Ice Melt....which could drasticly increase as Frozen Methane...which is now bubbling out of Alaskan Lakes as well as all across Siberia....increases Global Temps. far quicker than CO2 emmisions....within possibly a decade....there will no longer be any Sea Ice Cap over the North Arctic Sea. Russia ans a host of other countries...eager to drill in this area...the Russians have actually used a mini-deep diving sub to place a Russian Flag on the sea bed in an area they claim is theirs to drill. So this just goes to show you what reality is and what a bunch of Morons who claim that Globa Warming is a MYTH are the ones truly spreading a Myth!...Continued...Split Infinity



posted on Feb, 17 2012 @ 12:18 AM
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reply to post by ScarletWitch
 


"Spitting is a form of assault"

Not assault, battery.

Spit as in "saliva"?.. nah.. but I'd be all for spitting some verbal insults, if thats your thing, for being dumb enough to be duped into thinking an aggressive war occupier for GOP & DNC liars = protecting freedom/ serving your country.

Want to serve the community?.. apply for the police / fire dept.. they probably wont hire you but, at least it would be a legit attempt. Defend the nation?.. border patrol is hiring.. MMPI testing tends to weed out knuckle-heads the military loves though.. but there's always some douchey career college offering EMT courses.

Heck.. don a sporty red beret, pepper spray & wife beater... call yourself a guardian angel, cruse the bars @ 2am.. and walk drunk horny chicks to their car for free.. a much better community serving choice than following obamaos fascist amoral orders.



posted on Feb, 17 2012 @ 12:34 AM
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Originally posted by FinalAccount2008
Should people spit on each other? No.

Should Muslims kill people? No.

Should Christians Kill people? No.

Should agnostics and people of all different belief systems spit on and kill each other? No.

What is so complicated?


I am quoting this so people see it again.


You sir deserved way more stars.

Violence begets violence
Hate begets hate

"Ever since man first left his cave and met a stranger with a different language and a new way of looking at things, the human race has had a dream: to kill him, so we don't have to learn his language or his new way of looking at things."

I think its time we move past that



posted on Feb, 17 2012 @ 12:34 AM
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reply to post by SplitInfinity
 
Continued...anyways...the U.S. Military is gearing up to defend these soon to be open shipping lanes as well as a host of other Climate Change disasters which ONLY the U.S. Military is capable of responding to.

The more Energy or Heat in a Closed System will give you Massive Hurricanes and storms that will cause loss of Millions of lives via starvation and Disease. Although not related to Global Warming but a good example...when the Earthquake and Tsunami struck Japan....the first responders that were able to get to difficult to access areas were the U.S. Navy Carrier Group stationed in Japan...the Japanese know that the Nmitz Class Nuclear carier sent to replace the USS Kitty Hawk not only is nuclear powered but carries a large quantity od Thermonuclear Weapons on Board. The Japanese Leaders wanted it gone...after the USN's fantastic and heroic job of saving as many Japanese as possible....this issue has dropped off the radar since the U.S. Navy responded before even Japans own people and Military could.

The pont here is that the U.S. Military has alot to be proud of and alot of people would not be alive today without it....you don't see things like this being done on anywhere near this scale by China or Russia or anyother Military on Earth. So when people start taking or starting topics about spitting at U.S. TROOPS!?!....I believe they are a little confused and even the thought of a World without the U.S. Military...is a frightning aspect indeed!
There would be anarchy on a scale that people couldn't imagine...and forget about an Internet....and forget about world trade and shiping lane protection. Does anyone here think China could do the job? Split Infinity



posted on Feb, 17 2012 @ 12:59 AM
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Spit on the troops? Really!? You should be brought out back behind a barn and flogged. That's like trying to punish a business you don't agree with by spitting on their employees. The troops should not be the target here, if you want to spit on someone do it to the politicians who send these guys off to combat.



posted on Feb, 17 2012 @ 01:41 AM
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Originally posted by eriktheawful

Originally posted by zatara
It is really a stupid question but I ask it anyway.

Lets say, you have no job, no concrete prospect for the future, you need money and a roof above your head.

You know your government is occupied by money grabbing corrupt politicians and high ranking soldiers who have started an illegal war in order to have an excuse to take freedoms away from yourself, family and friends. they also use the opportunity to get rich quick once the country is conquered and do not give a darn about your hungry pennyless family to begin with.

You know you that the mission is to bring a country on its knees by force. There is the real chance you will die and most certainly will kill some poor basterd and cause a lot of missery for his family and friends.

I just read there is a waiting list but, would you join the army?

edit on 16/2/2012 by zatara because: (no reason given)


The problem is: you're assuming that everyone thinks like you, believes in what you believe in, or feels the same way as you. This, of course, is not true.

You obviously feel and think this way, so of course you would not even consider joining. Many that do join, are not even thinking about that, or in that way. And as been said on here over and over (my god, don't you people actually READ posts?), there are many, many, many different positions in the military that are not even combat involved, nor require personnel to be deployed to anywhere out side of CONUS for goodness sakes.

This is where YOU are assuming something that is not true. Please keep in mind that not all military forces are running around, armed to the teeth killing people.
I spent 10 years in the navy, and didn't kill one person. I broke some noses and some teeth in a bar brawl once, but once it was over with, the biker dude and I bought each other a beer afterwords. Sheesh.


You are right, I should have writen...you might kill or not kill but no matter what your duty in the army will be, you will be an extension of the ones in power. You will part of the killing machine, even if your contribution is mailing letters. I will spell it out for you, my goal is to see if people are willing to be a hired gun for a criminal organisation.

And no, you are the one assuming here. You assume that I feel and think that way. No, I don't...do you not read my post or did you not understand the question? I made it very clear that I considered it a stupid question in the first place.

edit on 17/2/2012 by zatara because: (no reason given)
edit on 17/2/2012 by zatara because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 17 2012 @ 02:20 AM
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Im not a soldier...

BUT the firdt @sshol£ i catch spitting on any member of the armed forces will need an armed force to pull me off them..

hippes did that in the 70's during 'Nam

Those "fing for peace" idiots who did nothing but bitch and produce kids that are currently destorying our world with politics

I dont support our foreign wars... But I damn sure support our soldiers!

You should be ashamed

edit on 2/17/12 by EvolEric because: (no reason given)
edit on 2/17/12 by EvolEric because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 17 2012 @ 02:28 AM
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Originally posted by eriktheawful
After all, you could be residing in a country where your posts would get you arrested in the middle of the night, and whisked off to god knows what hole in the ground, while that' country's "political police" slowly remove your skin, inch by inch, until you confess to what they want you to confess to.

Lucky you don't have to worry about that.


Obama got the ability to black bag anyone he likes, on New Year's Eve.

Like I said earlier, you are not defending anyone's freedom. That isn't spitting; but it is stating a fact.
edit on 17-2-2012 by petrus4 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 17 2012 @ 02:36 AM
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Originally posted by CaticusMaximus
You said: "Sorry. You can't quit. Not when your boss is Uncle Sugar. When you join, you sign your name on page after page of a very, VERY detailed contract that basically says: The US Government now OWNS you. (tis true. If you go out and get a very bad sun burn to where you can't perform your duties, you can be actually charge with "Destruction Of Government Property. I kid you NOT! Look it up!). And you get to swear an oath."


This is also the reason, I will say it again, why the troops are so adamant both with themselves and with us, that they are doing something praiseworthy; because if they don't insist that to themselves, their only other choice is to confront the reality of just how completely screwed they really are by the system. Legally, physically, psychologically...in every possible way.

So they get furious with civilians, because they don't want to have to admit that. They understandably do not want to have to admit to themselves, that said sacrifice has been entirely pointless. Bad enough in a case like WW2, where it might have been borderline justifiable; but to do it in the GWOT, where you aren't fighting for anything other than Dick Cheney's bottom line?

It would be kinder of me, to allow the troops to keep their delusions; that they are actually politically benefiting the people at home. That they really are defending someone's freedom, the way they think.

More humane, perhaps...but it wouldn't be the truth.



posted on Feb, 17 2012 @ 03:21 AM
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Originally posted by Hawking

Originally posted by brainswippin
Spitting at your troop really?
It's the politicians and the high level military people that you should be spitting at.

These guys put their ass on the line. Agree or disagree with the wars, they still are the bravest out there


Yes, but if people stop enlisting to fight these wars, our government will have no choice but to institute a draft

And THAT would effectively end any and all wars the American people don't personally agree with.


They would just hire more XE people and make it even more expensive. Better to have US troops on the ground who are accountable to the uniform code of military justice than unaccountable mercenaries who have nothing to answer to except their corporate paymasters,





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