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Should we be spitting at our troops?

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posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 07:56 PM
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Originally posted by technical difficulties
Same goes for you. Don't tell others to deny ignorance when you clearly embrace it.


Thanks mom, but I'm just fine not generalizing an entire group of people.
I'm not a self loathing hypocrite in denial like the OP




posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 07:57 PM
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reply to post by FortAnthem
 


No. Most of the time these are people who join at 18, 19 years old. They may be of legal age, but I think that anybody who's a little older realizes that you're still pretty much a kid at that age. They then get heavily brainwashed, and it's made known to them that they'll be serving hard time for a few decades if they try to bail.

I guess my point is that they're just brainwashed kids for the most part that are sent half a world away.

Quite the contrary, we need to be spitting on the politicians that keep sending them over there, and the defense contractors that keep bribing the politicians so that they can make more money.



posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 08:01 PM
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Originally posted by tangonine
Another "I hate the military" post.

yay.

You'd see a plethora of "I hate idiot hippies" posts in reply, but those that wear the uniform have a little more class than the OP (and those that starred him).


Thing is, "idiot hippies" are not the only ones who have lost respect for the armed service men and women. Most are normal people who are fed up with the system and its continuing evils, and see that without the military at TPTBs disposal, those evils would not be able to come to fruition (at least the foreign policy evils). These normal people see also, that the supposed "good guys" in the armed forces are little more than the enforcers of the agendas of bankers, transnational corporations, and the psychopaths that lead them, because lets get serious here: America is under NO external threat, from ANY nation.

The military is not acting in DEFENSE of America... they are acting in OFFENSE against other nations to line the pockets of the plutocrats and consolidate more power into the hands of a few.

How Orwellian is that, really, that what the US calls "defense", is by any dictionary definition, or by any rational, common sense person, totally the opposite.

People who fight just causes should be given respect. People who fight illegal wars of conquest should not.

More and more normal, everyday people are waking up to that fact. No hippies here.
edit on 2/16/2012 by CaticusMaximus because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 08:04 PM
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I know what you are getting at OP. What's strange though is people who tell you you should be ashamed of yourself , saying you're ruining ATS when they only joined a few days ago.

Anyone who knows anything about this site or knows its values will post something constructive rather than bashing the original poster. They are obviously not ATS material, and do not look at both sides of the argument or more importantly, the EVIDENCE before slandering the OP-er.

I would never spit at a soldier, but I don't think the OP-er would either. He is voicing his opinion on how the troops are put on some sort of a pedestal when the reality is not so glamorous.

I think the worst thing is that the wars are not achieving anything. The Iraq war was a farce and I don't know where to begin with Afghanistan. I admire our soldiers but the situation they're being placed in is not something that brings honour or freedom to us in the west.



posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 08:05 PM
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Originally posted by nimsu1987
I know what you are getting at OP. What's strange though is people who tell you you should be ashamed of yourself , saying you're ruining ATS when they only joined a few days ago.


Irrelevant. I've been a lurker since 07 and this is my other account since I forgot the password to my last one created in 09.

Silly goose, you know it all!

This place was never the way it is now up until about last year.
edit on 2-16-12 by reaxi0n because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 08:07 PM
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Originally posted by reaxi0n

Originally posted by technical difficulties
Same goes for you. Don't tell others to deny ignorance when you clearly embrace it.


Thanks mom, but I'm just fine not generalizing an entire group of people.
I'm not a self loathing hypocrite in denial like the OP


Originally posted by reaxi0n

Originally posted by Turq1

Originally posted by reaxi0n
Yeah rack up the count for yet another troop bashing thread.

People like you are ruining ATS.
I hear Westboro is recruiting so how about you put your money where your mouth is and go protest some funerals or something.
edit on 2-16-12 by reaxi0n because: meh


Yeah I hear he's a Nazi too.


The pedestal that soldiers are placed upon, whether good or bad, does seem contrived to say the least.


Uh...the only pedestal I see here is the one that the "anti war" bunch who elected war mongers and do nothing but whine about the outcome, put themselves on.

All we ask is to be treated fairly. But you have to be a drama queen about it.


Now are you going to deny the fact that you're a hyprocrite, or will you accept it?

Anyways, how exactly is he a self-loathing hypocrite?

Also, All he really said is that troops should be educated on what they're doing on Iraq (he even admits he was in the army), so why the idiotic comparison to WBC?
edit on 16-2-2012 by technical difficulties because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 08:08 PM
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How to stop war


We must take the profit out of war (everyone, from munition maker to politician to banker to general get the same wage as the foot soldier )
We must permit the youth of the land who would bear arms to decide whether or not there should be war. 
We must limit our military forces to home defense purposes. 


www.historyisaweapon.org...



posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 08:09 PM
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If you want to spit on someone, then do the research and find all your closest congressman and state reps who have voted yes on any bill that has allowed the initiation and/or continuation of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. And tell them why you're spitting on them.



posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 08:10 PM
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Originally posted by nimsu1987
I know what you are getting at OP. What's strange though is people who tell you you should be ashamed of yourself , saying you're ruining ATS when they only joined a few days ago.

Anyone who knows anything about this site or knows its values will post something constructive rather than bashing the original poster. They are obviously not ATS material, and do not look at both sides of the argument or more importantly, the EVIDENCE before slandering the OP-er.

I would never spit at a soldier, but I don't think the OP-er would either. He is voicing his opinion on how the troops are put on some sort of a pedestal when the reality is not so glamorous.

I think the worst thing is that the wars are not achieving anything. The Iraq war was a farce and I don't know where to begin with Afghanistan. I admire our soldiers but the situation they're being placed in is not something that brings honour or freedom to us in the west.


Reality isn't glamorous. And war definitely is the epitome of that rule. I don't think it's the soldiers/sailors/airmen/marines that represent themselves as heroes... In fact the only ones that do are the ones that lie about their service (stolen valor), in my experience. They're just people, Americans, like you. They have a tough job, and I'm hard pressed to find a case where they don't accept any praise or thanks with nothing but humility and a sense of service to those their families, their friends, and those they took an oath to protect.

The title of this post is troll-bait, and the picture the text of the OP paints is not accurate in the least. Perhaps spit on the people that throw away the the lives of best our nation has to offer would be a better title.



posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 08:14 PM
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Originally posted by CaticusMaximus

Originally posted by tangonine
Another "I hate the military" post.

yay.

You'd see a plethora of "I hate idiot hippies" posts in reply, but those that wear the uniform have a little more class than the OP (and those that starred him).


Thing is, "idiot hippies" are not the only ones who have lost respect for the armed service men and women. Most are normal people who are fed up with the system and its continuing evils, and see that without the military at TPTBs disposal, those evils would not be able to come to fruition (at least the foreign policy evils). These normal people see also, that the supposed "good guys" in the armed forces are little more than the enforcers of the agendas of bankers, transnational corporations, and the psychopaths that lead them, because lets get serious here: America is under NO external threat, from ANY nation.

The military is not acting in DEFENSE of America... they are acting in OFFENSE against other nations to line the pockets of the plutocrats and consolidate more power into the hands of a few.

How Orwellian is that, really, that what the US calls "defense", is by any dictionary definition, or by any rational, common sense person, totally the opposite.

People who fight just causes should be given respect. People who fight illegal wars of conquest should not.

More and more normal, everyday people are waking up to that fact. No hippies here.
edit on 2/16/2012 by CaticusMaximus because: (no reason given)


Then perhaps your animosity is misdirected, and should be aimed at TPTB. What you're doing is hating the people executing national policy instead of the people that dictate that policy. Don't hate the player, hate the game, my friend.



posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 08:16 PM
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Not unless you have been through what they have, and know for a fact that they've done something to warrant it.

Even still, spitting on another man is just something you don't do. It's the lowest, scummiest insult. Only true bastards spit on another man.

I agree that they aren't over there fighting for our freedom or defending the country. Last I checked, no one was trying to invade my freedoms or occupy the US. Regardless though, you shouldn't mix up your feelings of how you feel about American foreign policy with how you feel about the men in the field. The men and women in the field are doing their duty. It is not their place to create or alter foreign policy. Just like everyone else, they have a job to do and they do it. I imagine their job sucks and it is extremely grueling too. I don;t think they need to be disrespected or spit on for their Gov has them take part in.
edit on 16-2-2012 by spinalremain because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 08:22 PM
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Originally posted by technical difficulties


Now are you going to deny the fact that you're a hyprocrite, or will you accept it?


definitely not a hypocrite.



Anyways, how exactly is he a self-loathing hypocrite?


Well, he feels the need to project his hatred of us occupying Afghanistan/Iraq because he can't come to terms with the fact that America voted the last two morons into power, and Bush was even reelected. He can't come to terms that in order to change things, he needs to be proactive and do something other than complain on a forum that was created to look at both sides of an issue (this doesn't just go for him. it goes for any US citizen who is against the war). Do I believe we should be in Afghanistan? No, the war should have never happened. Do I blame the TROOPS and ask if they should be spit on? No, because they don't choose to be sent over to occupy #ty 3rd world countries. That's why I'm not a hypocrite. The odds of being stationed in somewhere like Afghanistan rather than the other countries around the world are slim.

Congress signed the act to allow Bush to go to war with whoever he deemed "terrorists" where are the constant threads attacking Congress? Right, they are nonexistent/very few and far between because people realize that the guys in congress were voted into power by citizens as well. It's too hard to blame an entire populous so they blame a single entity instead, this being the military in this case.

As I have said, the military supports Ron Paul more than any other candidate. So STOP ATTACKING US, treat us as equals, and let the government hear your voice.



Also, All he really said is that troops should be educated on what they're doing on Iraq (he even admits he was in the army), so why the idiotic comparison to WBC?


I couldn't care less if he was in the army or not. Westboro didn't start picketing funerals until 2005, which is when they decided to take the anger at the government out on troops. Spitting on troops is something they would do. My reference is only idiotic in your opinion, and it seems as if quite a few people have agreed with me.
edit on 2-16-12 by reaxi0n because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 08:26 PM
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First post here, long time lurker. Decided to sign up after reading this post, as I feel I may offer some insight.

Being a military wife, I'm around the troops all the time. I can tell you this - they're not stupid. They all know they aren't fighting for our country. It's just a job for them. A paycheck. They all understand that these wars are not about what they're telling us they're about. They aren't proud of what the military is doing over there. But hey - what can you do? Signing up for the military is easy, and a guaranteed paycheck with lots of great benefits. That's the only reason they signed up. They aren't delusional.
edit on 16-2-2012 by CarlyDee because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 08:27 PM
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Originally posted by usmc0311
reply to post by Hawking
 


Have you ever served? Not asking argumentatively, just for reference. I ask this because yes, alot are duped as I once was. Now I joined before the wars but when they came along i belived the story just as everyone else. And this is still happening everyday. And just for your own knowledge, not everyone in the military kills people. There are many jobs that never even put people in those situations. There is alot of dissention in the ranks right now and sooner or later it will reach critical mass and we may just see an end to the madness that has been occuring. Could you imagine if we took the resources put into these wars and used them to better our infrastructure and repair our rundown cities here in America. But no, we have politicians that all want to be kings and will screww whoever over to get it. I find it shamefull that so many put hatred twoards the troops when the hatred should be directed in other places.
edit on 16/2/12 by usmc0311 because: spelling


Why can't our politicians think like you do?

A former military man even admits that our problems are not SS, or Medicare, or food stamps for cryin out loud. It's the ludicous defense budget and the constant policing of the global conflicts that keeps this country in a ridiculous constant state of debt. Blaming the deficit on SS or Medicare is like blaming global warming on farting.



posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 08:40 PM
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Originally posted by spinalremain

Originally posted by usmc0311
reply to post by Hawking
 


Have you ever served? Not asking argumentatively, just for reference. I ask this because yes, alot are duped as I once was. Now I joined before the wars but when they came along i belived the story just as everyone else. And this is still happening everyday. And just for your own knowledge, not everyone in the military kills people. There are many jobs that never even put people in those situations. There is alot of dissention in the ranks right now and sooner or later it will reach critical mass and we may just see an end to the madness that has been occuring. Could you imagine if we took the resources put into these wars and used them to better our infrastructure and repair our rundown cities here in America. But no, we have politicians that all want to be kings and will screww whoever over to get it. I find it shamefull that so many put hatred twoards the troops when the hatred should be directed in other places.
edit on 16/2/12 by usmc0311 because: spelling


Why can't our politicians think like you do?

A former military man even admits that our problems are not SS, or Medicare, or food stamps for cryin out loud. It's the ludicous defense budget and the constant policing of the global conflicts that keeps this country in a ridiculous constant state of debt. Blaming the deficit on SS or Medicare is like blaming global warming on farting.


Don't get me started on the colossal cluster&$^ that is the defense acquisitions process. Do you have any idea how much money is wasted procuring and NOT procuring equipment and weapons systems? It is an unmitigated disaster molded together with corruption and inefficiency.

It's why when some radio gets delivered to a pararescueman he says, with 20 minutes, "this $&*% is #(*ed," It's why when a vehicle is delivered to a mechanized division, within 20 minutes of delivery in-theater, the mechanic says "this (*$& is #*#^ed."

I think the buck stops at the pentagon and the WH. but hey, I'm career military/defense contractor so what do I know.



posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 08:44 PM
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Originally posted by spinalremain

Originally posted by usmc0311
reply to post by Hawking
 


Have you ever served? Not asking argumentatively, just for reference. I ask this because yes, alot are duped as I once was. Now I joined before the wars but when they came along i belived the story just as everyone else. And this is still happening everyday. And just for your own knowledge, not everyone in the military kills people. There are many jobs that never even put people in those situations. There is alot of dissention in the ranks right now and sooner or later it will reach critical mass and we may just see an end to the madness that has been occuring. Could you imagine if we took the resources put into these wars and used them to better our infrastructure and repair our rundown cities here in America. But no, we have politicians that all want to be kings and will screww whoever over to get it. I find it shamefull that so many put hatred twoards the troops when the hatred should be directed in other places.
edit on 16/2/12 by usmc0311 because: spelling


Why can't our politicians think like you do?

A former military man even admits that our problems are not SS, or Medicare, or food stamps for cryin out loud. It's the ludicous defense budget and the constant policing of the global conflicts that keeps this country in a ridiculous constant state of debt. Blaming the deficit on SS or Medicare is like blaming global warming on farting.


People like me care about to many other people to actually get anywhere in government. The ones who can't be bought are pushed out or scandalized untill their political careers are over. So many other military members are on at least a simalar page as me. It took alot for me to get where I am today and I have no problem admitting truths that I used to support or deny. The only way we can learn is from experience, and mistakes. And learning from our mistakes seems to be the most effective. I just wish more people could look past things like laying blame on a single group of people and realize that we are all going to have to work together to make this world a better place for our children to thrive in.
edit on 16/2/12 by usmc0311 because: poor grammer



posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 08:45 PM
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Originally posted by reaxi0n
definitely not a hypocrite.
You complained about him generalizating while doing the same thing yourself. Even being in denial about it.


he feels the need to project his hatred of us occupying Afghanistan/Iraq because he can't come to terms with the fact that America voted the last two morons into power, and Bush was even reelected. He can't come to terms that in order to change things, he needs to be proactive and do something other than complain on a forum that was created to look at both sides of an issue (this doesn't just go for him. it goes for any US citizen who is against the war).
He said that he doesn't hate the troops, he hates the policies. It sounds like you're projecting hatred morseso than him (with your first reply to this thread). I'll admit your right on the presidents being responsible. Don't really see how that makes him a self-loathing hypocrite in denial though.



I couldn't care less if he was in the army or not. Westboro didn't start picketing funerals until 2005, which is when they decided to take the anger at the government out on troops. Spitting on troops is something they would do. My reference is only idiotic in your opinion, and it seems as if quite a few people have agreed with me.
edit on 2-16-12 by reaxi0n because: (no reason given)
He didn't say to spit on the troops (he even said it was a bad idea), he said to educate them on what they're really doing over them. Sorry, but your post is still stupid. It seems like you didn't read his post at all based your first post on this post (which is ironic, because I remember you telling someone else to deny ignorance).
edit on 16-2-2012 by technical difficulties because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 08:46 PM
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Originally posted by CarlyDee
First post here, long time lurker. Decided to sign up after reading this post, as I feel I may offer some insight.

Being a military wife, I'm around the troops all the time. I can tell you this - they're not stupid. They all know they aren't fighting for our country. It's just a job for them. A paycheck. They all understand that these wars are not about what they're telling us they're about. They aren't proud of what the military is doing over there. But hey - what can you do? Signing up for the military is easy, and a guaranteed paycheck with lots of great benefits. That's the only reason they signed up. They aren't delusional.
edit on 16-2-2012 by CarlyDee because: (no reason given)


You say you're a military wife, but I can tell you that you're half right. There are those that just serve for the paycheck, and that's ok. Then there are others.

Those, that when the command chief, or the command sergeant major comes around and says: "again?" They sit quietly, they don't talk to their wives, they spend a day or a week or a month deciding. And then in a quiet back room someplace, hands clasped, we make the decision and do it again. and again. and again. No one else will understand but those that have sat in that room, whatever decision they made. But I guarantee you this: it's not the paycheck.



posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 08:52 PM
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reply to post by reaxi0n
 


Ah sorry, I've been here for a few years too and just signed up so sorry for being ignorant myself in that respect



posted on Feb, 16 2012 @ 08:55 PM
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I have a question.........................
How many Congressmen that signed off and approved of these Wars [invasions] have had their own children [of adult age] sign up and serve on the front line of those same Wars [invasions] if they believe in these Wars [invasions] so strongly. As a betting man I'd put my money on most of the children [of adult age] of the Congressmen are either studying at a fancy top-end College or working in positions with companies that MAY possibly benefit/profit from these Wars [invasions]
Just a question ???



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