What the Pentagon Guard Told Me About 9/11

Originally posted by hooper
reply to post by smyleegrl

 

Oh my. I guess you peered into your crystal ball and realized I was a "truther."

Crystal ball? No, just read the words you wrote. Don't exactly need a crystal ball.

Have you bothered to check my posts? I think I've posted a comment in maybe 2 or 3 9/11 forums over the years here at ATS.

Just going by what you wrote.

Definitely the work of a "truther."

Absolutely.

And the accussation of lying? I don't lie.

Then you're not human.

Sorry you find the whole thing hard to believe, but there it is.

Hard? Try impossible.

I can't convince you of the validity of my story and frankly won't waste anymore time defending my self.

So you post a story that has no validity and is contrived to support bizzare conspiracy stories and you don't like defending it? Then you shouldn't have posted it in the first place.

Believe what you will. It makes no difference to me.

There's no "believing" going on here. Its B.S. unless you can prove otherwise.

Well, after reading the above I decided to spend a little more time with you after all.

I checked out the threads you've authored. It seems you are quite dedicated to the "Official Story." All seven of the threads you've authored have dealt with 9/11. Nothing wrong with that, but it does seem to indicate a certain bias on your part. I wonder, if someone did offer "proof" if you'd even be willing to consider it. As I've mentioned, I don't have an "official" stance. I've got an open mind....which apparently you do not.

As to the personal attacks, it really is rather childish. I understand there is no way to provide "proof" for an anecdotal story, so no matter how much you call for me to "prove it" I can't do so.

So basically your argument is as follows:

I don't believe this post b/c I believe in the offical story.
You wrote a post based on anecedote.
I can't believe you b/c it would require me to be a little more open-minded. After all, I've got my mind firmly closed to any possibility that the official story might have flaws.
Since I've got my mind made up, let me go ahead and call the OP a liar. Even though I do not know her, and have not bothered to see if she really is a "truther" by checking her threads. I'll just go ahead and make a judgement call on someone I've never met because I don't like what she had to say.

Now, good sir, I'm done with you. Go troll somewhere else now.....

Originally posted by SpaceJockey1
I know that myself and many others would probably accept the Govt version of 9/11 events, IF we could have seen one of the many videos operating at the Pentagon that day, actually SHOW the incoming plane, and it slamming into the building.

Because they haven't I and no doubt millions of others around the world, will always hold serious doubts about what really happened that day.

Good ol Dave, what do you think about why they refuse to show actual footage of the incoming plane?

Probably because it's only those damned fool conspiracy web sites that insists there has to be any further usable footage to begin with. The Pentagon doesn't have cameras focused on every garbage can and light pole, they have them focused on high traffic areas like parking lots, entrances, and that security gate where that one impact sequence was taken. The plane actually hit a blank wall so they wouldn't need a security camera there, and what benefit is it to anyone to show a bunch of people standing at a parking lot looking at something off camera?

Let me ask YOU something- hordes of eyewitnesses from USA Today journalists in nearby office buildings to a guy packing to move out of a nearby apartment building to an immigrant from El Salvador tending the Pentagon laws all specifically saw that it was a plane that hit the building...and yet the truthers refuse to accept their statements. Plus, I'm seeing how the truthers are fighting tooth and nail how all the photographs of the wreckage lying all over the lawn were faked/staged/planted/whatever. They even found the black box irrefutably showing it was flight 77 thsat hit the Pentagon and the truthers steadfastly refuse to believe that's real. Tell me, what exactly would there be in any footage of the impact that would satisfy you when up until now, neither the eyewitness accounts, nor the photographs of the wreckage recovered, nor even the recovered black box, is enough to convince you?

It strikes me as attempt to look for excuses for why you shouldn't have to give up your conspiracy claims, especially when you're saying the only thing that will ever convince you just conveniently happens to be the one thing that may not even exist to begin with.

reply to post by smyleegrl

Well, after reading the above I decided to spend a little more time with you after all.

God Bless You.

I checked out the threads you've authored. It seems you are quite dedicated to the "Official Story."

The fact that you keep refering to it as the official story in quotes confims my earlier remarks about your position as a truther.

All seven of the threads you've authored have dealt with 9/11. Nothing wrong with that, but it does seem to indicate a certain bias on your part.

Bias? I prefer the truth, thats not a bias, its human nature.

I wonder, if someone did offer "proof" if you'd even be willing to consider it.

It would be nice to actually see some, but I doubt that its going to happen.

As I've mentioned, I don't have an "official" stance.

Yes you do, you're a truther. Its pretty simple and apparent.

I've got an open mind....which apparently you do not.

Nope, I do not. I am pretty fussy about what goes in there.

As to the personal attacks, it really is rather childish.

Personal? Not personal - I am simply saying the OP is fiction from start to finish.

I understand there is no way to provide "proof" for an anecdotal story, so no matter how much you call for me to "prove it" I can't do so.

Sorry, your story is not anecdotal. That would infer that it had some position in reality. Your story is fiction until you can prove otherwise.

So basically your argument is as follows:
I don't believe this post b/c I believe in the offical story.

I don't believe it because its fiction.

You wrote a post based on anecedote.

Its no more an "anecdote" than a Stephen King short story is an "anecdote".

I can't believe you b/c it would require me to be a little more open-minded. After all, I've got my mind firmly closed to any possibility that the official story might have flaws.

I don't believe you because you are presenting the contents of your imagination, not your experience.

Since I've got my mind made up, let me go ahead and call the OP a liar.

If you're lying it would be appropriate, correct?

Even though I do not know her, and have not bothered to see if she really is a "truther" by checking her threads. I'll just go ahead and make a judgement call on someone I've never met because I don't like what she had to say.

Its fiction. Thats my call.

Originally posted by groingrinder
Thanks for sharing your story. Even if one believes the official story, you still have the military standing by allowing it to happen. By coincidence the plane happened to crash at the exact spot needed to destroy evidence of trillions of dollars in missing pentagon money. Hmmmmm?

GoodOldDave's avatar cracks me up. It is sooooo appropriate. It comes from a time when folks figured we could trust the government to tell us the truth and have the best interests of all of it's citizens in mind. However, we now know that was not the case then (50's and 60's) and it certainly is not the case now.

NEVER ACCEPT THE OFFICIAL STORY.............FOR ANYTHING!! Question every single thing that the government tells you. They have lied before and they will lie again. The sun rises in the east. Water flows to the ocean. Grass turns green in the springtime. The government lies.

I absolutely agree. By the same token, you shouldn't mindlessly swallow some ridiculous paranoid nonsense simply because you read it on some damned fool conspiracy web site. Pinch yourself it, true- it's not a violation of the natural laws of the universe that the gov't really is covering up more details of the 9/11 attack AS WELL AS Alex Jones really being a lunatic and Richard Gage really being a con artist trying to swindle you out of your money.

FYI thanks for the comment. I actually posted it because the truthers seem to think repeating their debunked claims over and over will magically turn a falsehood into the truth, the more times it's been repeated. Case in point- there wasn't any military stand down. Eyewitnesses specifically saw interceptors flying over NYC immediately after the attack and Norm Mineta specifically said in his interview for the 9/11 commission that interceptors were scrambled out of Virginia. Plus, on 9/11 I myself was camped in a field outside of an air force base somewhere in Virginia and I saw with my own eyes that military C-130s were pouring out of the base all evening. "Does the order still stand" doesn't even remotely mean the same thing as "stand down order" regardless of how many times those damned fool conspiracy web sites claim that it is.

reply to post by GoodOlDave


GoodOldDave I am replying to your post, but I am pretty sure you do not work for the government and have no say in how the defense money gets spent.

But I was wondering if anyone here thinks it would be a good idea,since we have been attacked once and it theoretically could happen again, to build an anti-missile/anti-plane missile defense system on the pentagon grounds?

If I was a pentagon general, and I believed the official story, I would want a defense system in place to protect me and the thousands of others who work around me. Frankly I am surprised that nobody seems to have raised a stink about it. Imagine if it is not another plane next time, but really a missile?

reply to post by snowcrash911

+1. Nice post.

Originally posted by groingrinder
reply to post by GoodOlDave

 

GoodOldDave I am replying to your post, but I am pretty sure you do not work for the government and have no say in how the defense money gets spent.

But I was wondering if anyone here thinks it would be a good idea,since we have been attacked once and it theoretically could happen again, to build an anti-missile/anti-plane missile defense system on the pentagon grounds?

They don't need to build one. A year after the 9/11 attack they brought in a few humvee mobile stinger missile launchers in and around Washington as an exercise, specifically because of 9/11, and even thought they don't admit it, they're almost certainly still there somewhere. All they need to do with those things in any future air attack is drive them up and park them on the lawn.

What concerns me is that when a plane is shot down it doesn't just disintergrate but rather it falls down all over the place. The Pentagon is in the middle of an industrial park with office buildings, highways, apartment buildings, and even a marina. Plus, directly across the river from the Pentagon is the Lincoln memorial and the Washington monument. I'm sure someone, somewhere has made the decision on whether protecting the Pentagon or protecting population areas and major monuments in Washington, D.C. is more important, but as you recognize, I'm not with the gov't so I'm not privy to it.

reply to post by LightsideAssassin

So this is bull#, according to you:
frustratingfraud.blogspot.com ...
whatreallyhappened.com...
If you watch the video, you see that the fires that burned after the plane struck the pentagon were about 1500 or so. That would have melted most of the structure of the plane since it was a lot of aluminum. This would have left behind the titanium and other metals, which it did (the links show pictures, as well). The pictures identify this (with reasonable certainty) as flight 77. And the video also mentions that pieces of the passengers were found and pictures exist. Furthermore, that side of the building, as far as I know, was reinforced. So the plane isn't just going to plow through it. I'm sure it explains more than that.

Years ago, back in 2002-2007, I was skeptical just like many of you. I thought there was evidence that was lacking. I too looked at the pentagon stuff and asked myself, "Where's the evidence? The plane?" I also wondered how it could be that 3 buildings came down on the same day in strange circumstances. But time has proven to me that I was wrong. Even building 7 can be explained if you examine it carefully.

I still think I was right about being skeptical about Operation Iraqi Freedom. Even Colin Powel admits today that he regrets not being more critical himself. But even I must admit that support for the Iraq war in 2003 was widespread. Furthermore, Saddam was a bad guy by all accounts. If you watch older videos of Al Gore and Bill Clinton you will see them saying the same things about Saddam. They said he had WMD and that he was a threat to the world. Not much changed with GWB, except 9/11. 9/11 is what did it and pushed us to finally body slam Saddam. But that doesn't mean we're always right. We used Iraq in the 1980's in a war against Iran. You see, we had hostilities with Iran and we wanted to keep them busy with Iraq. We were not true peacekeepers. If we had been, there would have been no bias in the negotiations to end the war. Instead, we gave Iraq material assistance. And Saddam used our help to commit war crimes that were quietly pushed aside at the time. If we had not given Iraq aid it may very well have cut short, since it was Iraq that initiated it. And in being reduced, it may have prevented Operation Desert Storm. Saddam had accumulated a lot of debt from past choices and the war with Iran. This in turn led to increasing tensions and to a feeling among him and his loyals that invading Kuwait and getting its oil would alleviate things. Many felt that Kuwait belonged to Iraq and was stolen from them, but I doubt it would have happened without that debt that had happened as a result of the war with Iran. I could go on further, but I'll stop, with one last comment that all countries in this world play proxy wars with one another (just like the US).

(russia and china, for example, are much the same thing but in opposition to western interests)

I've come to respect GWB a bit more than I did when he was president. I don't agree with everything he did, but I think he did what he felt was best. Nobody is perfect. Our military doesn't make perfect choices.

reply to post by smyleegrl


I'm sorry I'm going to have to call BS. I used to work in the Pentagon in both a military and civilian capacity...yep I am a former Pentagon boogeyman. First off, most of the security guards there are DPS police. Second the escorts for the tours are usually - not always but certainly in most cases - our soldiers, sailors, airmen or Marines that are part of their respective honor guard units. They are certainly not qualified to be questioned and their answers are certainly not to be taken seriously. Most of those people were still in in middle school or maybe high school. An overwhelming majority of them are 18-21 year olds with sometimes an NCO doing the duty. Once in a while you may get a civilian who has worked in the building a long time to do it if you're a "special guest". I personally know one person who does this for certain guests.

Second, the Pentagon is right next to I-395. There are thousands of cars that pass on this and 110 and 27/Washington Blvd. every day. It is a very busy thoroughfare. There are multiple witness reports it was plane.

My guess, he probably guessed one of you were conspiracy nuts and decided to tell a stupid tail to get you all wild up. These kids doing the tours - and they're kids trust me - have to deal with snotty 9/11 troofers almost every day, I've heard their complaints so if one goes off and tells some crazy story it's probably just the norm.

reply to post by groingrinder

By coincidence the plane happened to crash at the exact spot needed to destroy evidence of trillions of dollars in missing pentagon money. Hmmmmm?

It's the six week mark where the same old (debunked) theories pop back up.

Originally posted by rogueoperative
reply to post by smyleegrl

 

I'm sorry I'm going to have to call BS. I used to work in the Pentagon in both a military and civilian capacity...yep I am a former Pentagon boogeyman. First off, most of the security guards there are DPS police. Second the escorts for the tours are usually - not always but certainly in most cases - our soldiers, sailors, airmen or Marines that are part of their respective honor guard units. They are certainly not qualified to be questioned and their answers are certainly not to be taken seriously. Most of those people were still in in middle school or maybe high school. An overwhelming majority of them are 18-21 year olds with sometimes an NCO doing the duty. Once in a while you may get a civilian who has worked in the building a long time to do it if you're a "special guest". I personally know one person who does this for certain guests.

Second, the Pentagon is right next to I-395. There are thousands of cars that pass on this and 110 and 27/Washington Blvd. every day. It is a very busy thoroughfare. There are multiple witness reports it was plane.

My guess, he probably guessed one of you were conspiracy nuts and decided to tell a stupid tail to get you all wild up. These kids doing the tours - and they're kids trust me - have to deal with snotty 9/11 troofers almost every day, I've heard their complaints so if one goes off and tells some crazy story it's probably just the norm.

You are right, all the men who escorted us that day (and on our previous visit) were very young. My guess would be no more than mid-twenties.

The young man who escorted us wore a Marine uniform. In one of my previous replies I provided a link to the Pentagon's website that explained the role the escorts play. Before our tour began we were separated into smaller groups. Then the groups left evenly spaced to give the group ahead time to move on. I was in the last group and while we waited the guards took questions from the kids. One question was how they got to be at the Pentagon. I don't remember all of the answer, but my impression was that it took extra training and was something of an honor to be chosen. (Our students were particularly impressed that he conducted the entire tour while walking backward, even up the stairs)

Norma and I did not hound this young man. We listened to the tour (which is more history than current events). A lot of things he said were very interesting.

Norma approached him while we were in the memorial section. There's two parts to it , the desk with a guard and then the door that leads into the actual memorial chapel. The escort waited outside the chapel while our group was inside. Norma and I talked to him and the other guard at the desk.

I really wish you could meet Norma. She's nearing 68, and is such a powerful personality. I once saw her throw two gangbangers out of a school assembly... and they ran. That's just how she is. Very direct, but also respectful.

All she said was "Did a plane really hit the Pentagon?". When he said yes, no one argued or began citing all the arguments for or against his statement. She just waited. That's when he added the part about the eyewitnesses on the road bridge. By then some of the kids and parents were leaving the chapel. I think a parent said "Really?" but it might have been a kid. Then he gave us the story of the woman touching the plane. I asked if she was hurt, because touching a plane in flight seemed like a risky thing to do. He said not that he knew, and that was the end of the conversation. No one brought up conspiracy theories. We moved on.

I have the upmost respect for the men and women who serve our country. I have family members and friends who have served and are serving now.

I've told the story as it happened. I can't offer proof, except hearsay and I know that simply won't be enough for many folks. That's okay, I understand.

And yes, it is possible he was having a joke at our expense, as others have postulated. I myself thought he was quite sincere, but that's not proof.

So that's what happened. No one argued, no raised voices, and overall a very interesting tour.

reply to post by hooper


After reading many of your posts and replies, I have come to know you appreciate the telling of a good story.

I guess you could say I have a "fairy tale" which is right down your ally.

www.youtube.com...

I know you will take the time to watch and enjoy this figment of a very active imagination.

reply to post by smyleegrl


The security is nothing unusual, especially for a military facility. Even federal employees have to submit information upon entering AND leaving. Badges, pins, scans, the whole nine yards.

I am sure it was boring, for the most part federal buildings are granite blocks. Though they look like great places for rollar skate shoes.

Someone who does tours and has probably done them a thousand times. Most likely this person has been asked this at least a hundred, and is now messing with you.

On the flip side...

I was listening to Elliott in the Morning on DC101 when a truck was on that very overpass, called in to report an explosion to the pentagon. This was before it hit MSM.

He never once mentioned seeing a plane. He instantly reported it as only an explosion. And truckers can be very observant.

I was outside of a bar once and a guy was talking about doing maintenance at the Pentagon on 9/11. I asked him the same thing, but he said it was no doubt a plane. I of course am skeptical about the Pentagon strike, but I just said ok as he was kind of a redneck and it wasn't worth pursuing. My guess would be that he wasn't anywhere near the strike zone or outside so I just assume he went with what he was told.

Not much of an anecdote and definitely not evidence of anything, just sharing since it was a similar story.

Originally posted by nixie_nox
reply to post by smyleegrl

 

The security is nothing unusual, especially for a military facility. Even federal employees have to submit information upon entering AND leaving. Badges, pins, scans, the whole nine yards.

I am sure it was boring, for the most part federal buildings are granite blocks. Though they look like great places for rollar skate shoes.

Someone who does tours and has probably done them a thousand times. Most likely this person has been asked this at least a hundred, and is now messing with you.

On the flip side...

I was listening to Elliott in the Morning on DC101 when a truck was on that very overpass, called in to report an explosion to the pentagon. This was before it hit MSM.

He never once mentioned seeing a plane. He instantly reported it as only an explosion. And truckers can be very observant.

That's why we weren't to concerned at providing the info as we left.

The tour was actually fairly interesting. For myself, besides the memorial site, I liked how they had practically a shopping mall inside the Pentagon. It made sense when the guard explained it but I'd never imagined such a thing. Norma laughed at me about that. She grew up I DC and her mom worked in the Pentagon. I think she was a secretary; it was definitely a civilian job.

I think folks assume I shared this story to cast doubt on the official version of 9/11. The truth is I don't have a stance on what happened. I've read some things that raise serious questions, but a lot of the proof of a plot has holes, too. This thread wasn't meant to argue a point. I just found it interesting and wanted to share.

Originally posted by smyleegrl
I've told the story as it happened. I can't offer proof, except hearsay and I know that simply won't be enough for many folks. That's okay, I understand.

And yes, it is possible he was having a joke at our expense, as others have postulated. I myself thought he was quite sincere, but that's not proof.

So that's what happened. No one argued, no raised voices, and overall a very interesting tour.

You've received a lot of guff for posting this, and I see it's brought all the "the gov't is secretly plotting to murder us all" groupies out in force, but I do thank you for posting this anecdote, smyleegrl.

You'll need to forgive some of the more energetic of the posters here, as we've all seen scores of conspiracy people trying to be clever and pretending they were something they weren't in order to sucker people with fake credentials. One person here recently pretended to be a twenty year old girl who seemed to suspiciously know quite a LOT about the physics of how planes fly over and above what someone of that age would know, and I myself encountered someone pretending to be a structural engineer who couldn't answer a single question on structural engineering. Not to mention, there was one cop who was a little too "I'm going to track you down" psycho to be an actual cop (who I actually needed to remind that his belief in conspiracies didn't make him immune to 00 buckshot). The experience can make one rather presumptuous.

What I like about your post is that it strips away much of the "unfeeling human robots" the conspiracy people keeps attributing to people in the military, and shows them to be the same human beings the rest of us are, and as human beings they can make innocent mistakes just as the rest of us do. I say this because it's easy for the conspiracy people to make accusations against shadowy, secret entities skulking around secret rooms in the Pentagon. It's rather hard to accuse living, breathing, lance corporal Joe Smith who lives at 1313 Mockingbird Lane and has a wife, a two year old daughter, and a beagle of "secretly plotting to murder us all".

Thank you. If anything, it was entertaining.

reply to post by smyleegrl


I have been on ATS for six years and I am still on the 911 fence. lol

reply to post by smyleegrl

The truth is I don't have a stance on what happened.

Yes you do. You are a truther. You have doubts????? Then you are a truther.

Originally posted by hdutton
reply to post by hooper

 

After reading many of your posts and replies, I have come to know you appreciate the telling of a good story.

I guess you could say I have a "fairy tale" which is right down your ally.

www.youtube.com...

I know you will take the time to watch and enjoy this figment of a very active imagination.

Watched a couple of seconds and then saw david ray griffin, con artist, and turned it off. Should have turned it off when they showed a photo of B. Olson.

reply to post by smyleegrl



It's funny to watch them practice the tours. You'll see a one-two stripper walking around the Pentagon backwards talking to himself/herself.

Just asking if a plane hit the building...do you know how many times a day they get asked that? Enough to get sick and tired of it so he probably gave you a snotty answer. As I said before they're kids doing this and certainly no expert on the situation especially since most of them were probably like 8, 9 or 10 years old when this 9/11 occurred.


Their "extra" training is they have to be part of an Honor Guard unit and as shallow as it sounds they're picked on appearance. You have to meet certain height and weight requirements and always look sharp. They also have to have the ability to obtain and hold a clearance...that's pretty much it. They do a lot of military drill since they do public shows and ceremonies. He could have meant that.

As someone who worked there before, during and after 9/11 there is no doubt it was a plane in my eyes. I'm not a civil engineering expert, pilot or and expert in physics but from what I saw while I was there, it was a plane. The parts were taken away and inventoried and laying out there for the world to see. Plus the inescapable scent of jet fuel - something I do know - lingered in the air for what seemed like weeks.

Like I said, I'm no authority on piloting planes, structural integrity of the Pentagon or a the physics of the flight/velocity of the plane etc etc...I do know what I saw personally and nothing ever pointed to or stuck out in my mind that didn't point to it being a passenger jet that hit the Pentagon.