Christianity: What's the 'catch'?

reply to post by jmdewey60

And I suppose you believe there will be bad people in heaven.
So nice word view you have: good people go to Hell,
while bad people go to heaven.
I doubt that is the way it works.

That is exactly how it works you goof ball.

Luke 18:10-14
"10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. (The GOOD MAN, who goes to Hell)
13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me A SINNER. (The bad man, SINNER, who goes to Heaven)
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted. "

My, my....you people really need to study your Bible and stop relying on your "feelings" and logic based conclusions. Of course there are bad people in Heaven! I will be one of them!! The only difference is, I have been ATONED for my sins. You can be GOOD all you want in life, but unless you are ATONED from your sins by BLOOD, you will go to Hell filled with your own personal GOOD!

reply to post by KJV1611

5 And the biggest reason. Jesus did not teach salvation by Grace through faith in HIS shed blood...why?

Read the Last Supper stories of the Gospels of Mark and John.
"This is my body which is broken, this is my blood I shed"
Ring a bell?

reply to post by Lionhearte


you going to get in on this? or you just sitting back and enjoying the post counts? P.s....do you really not need to go to church? and do you really not need to pat tithes? Is that a "catch" to you? Or are you just doing what YOU want to do? Do as thou wilt?

reply to post by KJV1611

. . . we are to hate this world.

I'm having a problem finding a verse for that.
Would you be so kind as to provide a citation for this concept?

reply to post by KJV1611

By CUTTING, KILLING, and completely destroying over 4 billion people on this earth....and that is just during the tribulation and second advent!

This is wrong and the reason why people have this weird idea is thanks to a person by the name of Athanasius who was the Bishop of Alexandria at the time of the Council of Nicaea. He was into attacking Christians he considered to be heretics and so was all into the death from above concept and so forced the acceptance of books into the NT canon which we now know are fraudulent, such as Jude and 2 Peter.

reply to post by KJV1611

Your way teaches religion gets you to heaven. Mine teaches salvation is in a PERSON.

We are saved by religion, which is piety from a fear of the Lord, and true religion is spelled out by James as doing good deeds to help others.

reply to post by KJV1611

. . . these two Gospels are not the Same.

Jesus said this Gospel will go out to the world.
He did not say a different Gospel would go out to the world.

reply to post by KJV1611

. . . I have be ATONED for my sins . . .

What you are calling "atonement" is a reconciliation and it is us feeling friendly towards God, not the other way around. The gift for atonement was given to us by God, not the other way around.
Sin by us, as in your individual sin you committed yourself, is forgiven by God forgetting them, which is what He does for Jesus' sake when we accept his free gift of the spirit which guides us into righteousness.
It is not a pay as you go thing with a blood for sins exchange.
Bad people will not be in heaven.

reply to post by jmdewey60


I guess Jesus lied in Luke 18:10-14 then huh?
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reply to post by wildtimes

First of all, NotUr, SARCASM is a block to communication.

So is giving unsolicited advice.

These people Jesus is talking abou tare not Christians, Christ said He never knew them. Christians will be helpng judge at the Great White Throne judgment, it says we will be judging fallen angels. We can't be both on trial and judge.

reply to post by KJV1611

I guess Jesus lied in Luke 18:10-14 then huh?

You need to read the Psalms of Solomon which is a lament by Pharisees about how anyone basically not a Pharisee are sinners, so what you are referring to is something you have to take into context where being called a sinner has nothing to do with actually sinning, it has more to do with social status.

reply to post by jmdewey60

somehow his death was an integral part of introducing a new system through which we gain salvation.

Salvation is NOT found in a "system", but in the life, death, burial, and resurrection of a PERSON, Christ Jesus.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

. . . the life, death, burial, and resurrection of a PERSON, Christ Jesus.

So how is all that applied . . if not through a system?
It is a system, as described by Paul.
Just the facts as you laid out does nothing in itself.

you know reading some of these comments , and some of the bickering back and forth , it makes you realize how incomplete , disorganized , lack of consistant data . For everyone to come to some basic conclusions about who to follow , who has more authority , who is the boss , lol.

The answer has to be god. not paul , not jesus. You know why ? because paul and jesus are the creation . God has to the creator lol.

But that message is so mixed up in the bible , that it has everyone trying to figure who said what where , what is authorized by whom , what contradicts what lol.
This is same problem with most religions , if they cannot figure out the basics , within their own belief system. How can they expect the rest of the world to understand?

Isn't it counter productive for all religions to be speaking about who's authority is the right "path " . When they can't even get the basics of it packed down.

Secondly what does this say to you about god , how can he send anyone to hell with leaving the worth with such a mess of "evidence" and saying good luck ! lol and nothing else ! besides your subjective prayer high . lol
Its like a professor going to the students saying hey surprise exam. But i'll give the answers , but only problem is , its between alot of contradictary parts . Then he throws the papers in the air and says good luck!

That is extactly why we have these problems . There is no reason to make it so difficult , espically if your not gonna show your self lol. All we have is the scripture to understand this diety , and he dares give you a scrambled puzzle ?

It's not really fair .

reply to post by NOTurTypical

. . . Christ said He never knew them.

But they knew him, and preached in his name . . so what is your point?

reply to post by seedofchucky

It's not really fair .

People who have any chance of being saved, will know when they are doing something wrong and will want to correct that behavior. If they still have a problem then they can pray to Jesus for help to overcome that tendency.
Other people will create a false theology to feel like they can be saved while retaining all those bad behaviors, and thinking real virtue is making the bad feeling go away, telling themselves that is true faith, believing they will be saved in their sins.

reply to post by jmdewey60

People who have any chance of being saved, will know when they are doing something wrong and will want to correct that behavior. If they still have a problem then they can pray to Jesus for help to overcome that tendency.

But what about people from other religions , who never had a chance to know jesus or the bible , because got allowed so many other scriptures and religions. Nobody's god will show up in the sky and say Hey ! here i am! I belong to this religion right here , please follow this ...

but nobody's god does that . Thats why we rely on scripture to figure out which god wants what and to figure out who is right.
There is NOTHING you can do with your scripture and your faith in this world . That someone else with a different scripture can do.
None of you can show any miracles. Objective ones . so how do you assume you have the right god ? When you have nothing to confirm , what your following is even correct?

just scripture and faith. All religions have prays , but none of them have a positivie accuracy rate. always the flip of coin luck . sometimes you get it sometimes not . If someone wants to be worshiped do you really think they would set up all these things to fully confuse everyone , and make them fight each other . ? WHile know the whole time he can just come and be like Hey ! i'm god , nice to meet you.

then you dare assume you have it right ? when you can't demonstrate even the basic of tasks . Don't you think the correct religion would get some blessing from god ? instead of the same luck as everyone elses



"(Luke 11:2-4 NIV) He said to them, "When you pray, say: "Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name, your kingdom come. May your will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Give us each day our daily bread. Forgive us our sins, for we also forgive everyone who sins against us. And lead us not into temptation but deliver us from the evil one.""


lead us not into temptation ? and deliver us from the evil one? This mass confusion about who what where when he is , nothing short of entrapment!

reply to post by NOTurTypical

Salvation is NOT found in a "system", but in the life, death, burial, and resurrection of a PERSON, Christ Jesus.

Star. This is absolute truth. Great reply.
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P.s. jmDewy60, there is no system to be saved. All the things Paul told us to do are part of the Christian walk and how one is to behave ones self as a Christian. But as for salvation itself, there is no system. Ask the thief on the cross what system he used? It is SIMPLE faith in the Jesus Christ, as apposed to ones self.

Sadly you appear to have more faith in yourself and your religion. It will simply land you in hell with a good conscience.

reply to post by seedofchucky

None of you can show any miracles. Objective ones .

Not scientifically provable ones,
but people have personal anecdotal ones
and that is what people have to go by.
I don't think God gave me revelations in order
for me to stop being a Christian.

reply to post by KJV1611

. . . to behave ones self as a Christian. But as for salvation itself . . .

Where do you find your evidence to support divorcing the two?
I told you there is a whole pile of different books written just on that subject so if there was in fact direct scriptural evidence to support your proposition, all those books would immediately go into the shredder since the problem would be solved.
The problem is there are a lot of Bible sayings which on the surface appear contradictory and it requires deep probing into them to discover the proper balance between the concepts presented and it takes a willingness to see what the individual parts are saying, and also to be willing to look at them in an unbiased way.
I think you are a little too dogmatic and got locked into a particular view from which you are having difficulties extricating yourself.