Christianity: What's the 'catch'?

reply to post by wildtimes


Perhaps you missed page 5?

Of course I am "Paulian"....whatever the devil that means...but really now, you saying you don't follow Paul over Jesus? If you don't then you are not saved and you will not go to Heaven. Why? Jesus never once taught salvation by grace through faith. Paul did,

Jesus taught keep commandments and works based salvation (Matt 5-7, etc.) Paul taught pure faith through grace. (Eph 2:8-9)

Matter of fact, Christianity is based SOLELY on Paul's writings. I have noticed a lot if you guys don't understand this. Let me make it clear....if you follow Jesus Christ's teachings ONLY, then you will end up in Hell. Why? Because you must believe the Gospel to be saved. Soooooo what is the Gospel? (1 Cor 15:1-4) Its the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. So how you going to believe the Gospel of Grace reading ONLY the Gospels?!?! The gospel of grace does not even appear!! I challenge you, show me where the gospel of grace appears in the 4 gospels. (Now Jesus did mention it, but only to His apostles, He never preached it (Rom 10:9-17))

P.s. You are COMMANDED to be a follower of Paul according to the Holy Scriptures.
1 Cor 4:16 "Wherefore I beseech you, BE YE FOLLOWERS OF ME. "
Keep reading....you will catch up one day (I hope )

reply to post by Akragon

Perhaps you missed page 5?

Naw...that's what got me really interested!
(Do you suppose I'll get a response?) I just want to know which branch-off teaches that one.

reply to post by NewAgeMan

that's the beauty of Jesus, in that he's both trustworthy and a God we can love and be loved by, personally. Nothing else compares to this.

Very nicely stated. And if you don't mind, I'd add, " be loved 'unconditionally' by, personally."
I don't understand the "say these words!" thing.

reply to post by wildtimes

Worthy is the lamb, trustworthy and true is he alone, and that's the beauty of Jesus, in that he's both trustworthy and a God we can love and be loved by, personally, and unconditionally. Nothing else compares to this.

Point is, that Christianity is the only religious tradition which makes God a PERSON who loves us personally, and one where intercessory Grace alone, is our salvation, and the radical, transformative type of forgiveness from which all goodness and all the fruits of the spirit, including good-works flow from a Christian heart.

But neither is it an exclusive proposition, but instead an all-inclusive invitation, where the substance is more important than the "doctrine".

I must say as a Christian that I'm not so pleased with the hardened literalists who are only interested in being RIGHT, when they don't even appear to have the heart of Christ in them, or his love. Harsh as this may sound, from what I can tell, they are on a devilish mission to divide and separate Christians from Christ and from one another, and thus from forming a united body in one accord with the LOVE of Christ, which is his very persona and spiritual reality and truth.

There are so many BAD BAD preachers out there in Christendom, especially in the American Fundamentalist Conservative Evangelical variety.

Oh how it saddens me to no end to see and recognize, the closer I get to marrying Christ (I'm still a bit of a prostitute truth be told), just how much he and his authority has been used and abused by power seekers and wanna be's who really aren't interested in the SPIRIT of God in Jesus Christ, but just the letter of the law, which reminds me of so much of his own teachings in relation to the "religious" people of his time.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Worthy is the lamb, trustworthy and true is he alone, and that's the beauty of Jesus, in that he's both trustworthy and a God we can love and be loved by, personally. Nothing else compares to this.

Amen to that. Great statement.

reply to post by Akragon

Satan is called "the light bringer"...

No, lucifer means "light bearer", meaning he "bears the light". He certainly doesn't "bring" any light/illumination/knowledge/truth. satan means "adversary".

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Akragon

 

Satan is called "the light bringer"...

No, lucifer means "light bearer", meaning he "bears the light". He certainly doesn't "bring" any light/illumination/knowledge/truth. satan means "adversary".

my appoligies... The light barer...

Either way how can one see the "light" without the darkness?

Why do you believe he was called such a name?

reply to post by Akragon

The "bright morning star" in Revelations is the enligtenment of Christ, but Satan is (was) the destroyer chained by Michael and thrown into the Abyss for 1000 years, after which he pops up briefly, only to be quickly "deep sixed" again!

Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Akragon

 

Satan is called "the light bringer"...

No, lucifer means "light bearer", meaning he "bears the light". He certainly doesn't "bring" any light/illumination/knowledge/truth. satan means "adversary".

my appoligies... The light barer...

Either way how can one see the "light" without the darkness?

Why do you believe he was called such a name?

No apologies necessary bro.

Because before he fell he was called the "anointed cherub who covereth". (the throne) Also all the precious stones were built into him, as well as all musical instruments. he must have been a multidimensional creature. My feeling is his body someway reflected the glory of God. "Light bearer" He was basically in charge of protecting the throne of God and leading praise and worship. And lucifer's fall dealt with pride in himself. He was created "perfect in beauty" Isaiah says.

reply to post by Lionhearte

Lastly.. I would say I am indeed doing what *I* want to do, as to WHAT I'm doing is what's in question. Am I out drinking and getting high with friends every weekend? No. Am I serving the Lord to the best of my ability by carrying my cross daily, and attending "Church" (that's in my living room) with my family?

Well, we try, but I can certainly try much, much harder

Fair enough. Hope you start feeling better. I just got over the crud myself.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

If helping the downtrodden feels like a "duty" it's not being done in love.

Very good, hints why it is called "Charity" in the correct English translation of the KJV Bible. Love does not fit this example and God uses the word charity to better get the point across. Anyone can "love" even two sodomites can "love" each other, but Charity is a unconditional hand out without expecting nothing in return. (1 Cor 13) speaks in detail of this.

reply to post by wildtimes

Tell me then, what is wrong with benevolent societies dedicated to human betterment and the spreading of knowledge (some Christian, some not). Can you explain to me, please, why Christ himself and/or God would NOT want this?

This kind of question is my bread and butter bud. Not only does God HATE these kind of groups.....He plans to bring these kind of people together and gather them in one nice bundle in order to destroy them that much easier.

Zeph 3:8 "Therefore wait ye upon me, saith the LORD, until the day that I rise up to the prey: for my determination is to gather the nations, that I may assemble the kingdoms, to pour upon them mine indignation, even all my fierce anger: for all the earth shall be devoured with the fire of my jealousy. "

Now before you or madcat even tries to reply to me, I dare you to try and explain this verse to me in a POSITIVE light. You can't. Matt 13:30 also goes with this verse. The above verse clearly teaches God Himself will gather a bunch of people together in order to KILL them in FIRE. Want more?

Isa. 8:9-10 "Associate yourselves, O ye people, and ye shall be broken in pieces; and give ear, all ye of far countries: gird yourselves, and ye shall be broken in pieces; gird yourselves, and ye shall be broken in pieces.
10 Take counsel together, and it shall come to nought; speak the word, and it shall not stand: for God is with us.

God does not like an integrated mass of ecumenical mess bound together by religious ties. God is a STRONG segragationalist and does not want His people meggling with the WORLD, at all. And when I say His people, I mean the Jews AND the Christians.

Numbers 23:9 "9 For from the top of the rocks I see him, and from the hills I behold him: lo, the people shall dwell alone, and shall not be reckoned among the nations."

And for Christians:

2 CORINTHIANS 6:15 &17
"And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? "
Wherefore COME OUT FROM AMONG THEM, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you. "

reply to post by wildtimes

Read all this for quite the eye opener...

I am confused. Neither jmdewey nor myself ever said we did not believe in Jesus Christ.

Doesn't matter if you believe in Jesus Christ or not bud, that's completely irrelifent.
James 2:19 "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble."
What matters is WHAT YOU DO with Jesus Christ. Even Satan himself called Jesus Christ God Almighty, so the fact of believing in Jesus doesn't matter.

What have you done PERSONALLY with Jesus Christ? You know, devils and evil spirits have a whole lot more sense than most people I know in regards to Jesus Christ: Acts 16:16-17, look it up.

You know, I was raised immersed in, and spoonfed with, the King James Bible, as an Episcopalian (Church of England -- King James)

Well tkank God for that! At least you had a strong KJV foundation. Too bad your women pastors, queer and pedo priests can't say the same...

, and I never, ever heard this 'believe Paul, not Jesus' idea. Nor did ever hear that benevolence was wrong EVER.On the contrary, it came hand in glove with being an Episcopalian; and there was NOT all this 'conditional' stuff of having to say "uncle" to make it valuable; and certainly never that a good thing done was was going to send me to hell if I did not say "uncle."

I never said not to believe Jesus. I just said if Jesus and Paul ever contradict each other (which they DO many times) then you are to follow the teaching of Paul since he is YOUR APOSTLE, the apostle to the Gentiles.(Rom 15:16, look it up.)
Guess what? Jesus died for you.....but HE WAS NOT SENT TO YOU!!!!!!!

Matt 15:24-27
24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.
26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to DOGS.
27 And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the CRUMBS which fall from their masters' table.
Also Mark 7, and Luke 16 records this event.

Jesus was SENT to the Jews, and as such most of His teaching was....wait for it.......FOR THE JEWS!!!! You want to know something really tripy? The majority of Christs teachings have no DOCTRINAL effect for Christians. But during the tribulation and Millennium....all His teaching will be in FULL use and will be preached as the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM (Matt 4:23) and the Gospel of the Grace of God (Paul's gospel) will have no effect. This is where the Left Behind books screw it up. You want to know what the law of the land is during the 1000 year millennium? Its found right there in Matthew 5 through 7. Including a rebuild temple WITH SACRIFICES made daily. The "sermon on the mount" which has NOTHING to do with any Christian at ALL in this AGE. Chew on that for a while.

Hmmmm.May I ask you, what "sort" of Christian do you consider yourself? (I suppose I have an eeny-weeny feeling of territorialism, and the KJ Bible is hardwired into my very being. So, if you're going to crown and claim it as your avatar AND your online name, I'd like to know from which direction you've adapted]/i] it. If you don't mind.)

I am happy to say what I am. I am a Bible believing Christian as found through out the book of Acts. But for you to better generalize me, I am an Independent Baptist.

reply to post by KJV1611

Even Satan himself called Jesus Christ God Almighty, so the fact of believing in Jesus doesn't matter.

Would you mind showing that passage... even though i believe i know which one you're refering to

reply to post by KJV1611


If you believe that Paul contradicts Jesus you are seriously confused. Paul does not contradict Christ even once. Anyone who thinks Paul contradicts Jesus has not correctly interpreted scripture. Everything you think Paul is saying needs to be compared to Christ, if there is a contradiction you have not understood what you read.

Here is what Peter has to say about people who don’t understand Paul.

2 Peter 3:16 He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

reply to post by Akragon

Would you mind showing that passage... even though i believe i know which one you're refering to

Sure:

Matt 4:6-7
"6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

(Here Satan knows Jesus is the Son of God, which would of course make Him God John 10:30-33)

7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God. "

Here Jesus calls Himself the "Lord thy God" once again showing a clearly calling Himself God.