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Christianity: What's the 'catch'?

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posted on Feb, 13 2012 @ 06:32 AM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


Un, no, He isn't. He closes with "I never knew you", meaning He never knew them ironically.

First of all, NotUr, SARCASM is a block to communication.
Second of all, I don't believe you've ever given us your credentials to be the holder of the only correct interpretations of God, and you certainly are not CHRIST, nor did he KNOW YOU, ironically.

Actually, from what I've seen of you in the past 90 days or so, you are a "false prophet" in the sense that you teach incorrect doctrine.

Matthew 7:15
15Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

False prophets - The word prophet originally means one who foretells future events. As prophets, however, were commonly regarded as public instructors on the subject of religion, the word came to denote all who were religious teachers. See the notes at Romans 12:6. In this sense it is probably used here. A false prophet is a teacher of incorrect doctrine, or one falsely and unjustly laying claims to divine inspiration. It probably had reference to the false teachers then among the Jews.


And furthermore, your interpretation is not in agreement with others who are more qualified than you, regardless of your 10+ years doing your "apologetics" thing (which, by the way, you never clearly differentiated from among the supplied list of the styles of apologetics.

Now, let's try this again:

Matthew 7:23
23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Profess unto them - Say unto them; plainly declare.

I never knew you - That is, I never approved of your conduct; never loved you; never regarded you as my friends. See Psalm 1:6; 2 Timothy 2:19; 1 Corinthians 8:3. This proves that, with all their pretensions, they had never been true followers of Christ. Jesus will not then say to false prophets and false professors of religion that he had once known them and then rejected them; that they had been once Christians and then had fallen away; that they had been pardoned and then had apostatized but that he had never known them - they had never been true christians. Whatever might have been their pretended joys, their raptures, their hopes, their self-confidence, their visions, their zeal, they had never been regarded by the Saviour as his true friends. I do not know of a more decided proof that Christians do not fall from grace than this text. It settles the question; and proves that whatever else such people had, they never had any true religion. See 1 John 2:19.

Matthew 7 Barnes' Notes on the Bilbe
So booya.
edit on 13-2-2012 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)

edit on 13-2-2012 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)

edit on 13-2-2012 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)




posted on Feb, 13 2012 @ 06:47 AM
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originally by KJV1611

Jesus never once taught salvation by grace through faith. Paul did,

[color=DarkSlateGray]..Jesus did not have to. Grace had to be taught to the gentiles to explain their calling. The Jews needed no such instruction since they firmly understood their election as being through their forefathers.
[color=DarkSlateGray]..If anything Jesus had to work to disinvest them of that and to seek a rebirth,
not relying on their natural birth as being their guaranteed ticket into the kingdom.

edit on 13-2-2012 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 13 2012 @ 07:14 AM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 

. . . regardless of your 10+ years doing your "apologetics" thing . . .

[color=DarkSlateGray]..I don't even know how long I have been doing preaching on forums. I mentioned before how I got banned from the Christian forum for being apparently not orthodox enough, so I lost my entire account, not being able to log in to even look at my history, but I started out as arguing over my own brand of Christianity which was about not blowing off the requirement of righteousness by feeling like you are somehow above all that. But I never had any other intentions, so maybe it was in the long run a good thing (being banned) because I went to an atheist forum and got an education in agnosticism and what that is all about.
[color=DarkSlateGray]..Then I started on this forum but with the more conspiratorial type aspects like doctrines on hell. I found that whatever threads I got on, once I posted a certain amount, they would end up being moved here so I eventually decided to just stay here where everything I wrote would end up anyway.
[color=DarkSlateGray]..So probably five years for me, doing "apologetics". Not with any specific purpose in mind other than getting into controversy to test my own beliefs and to learn to adjust them as necessary. It's kind of useless in my opinion to imagine some greater calling or fulfillment of duty by doing any of this sort of thing but there is a responsibility that comes with it where you are placing yourself in jeopardy as being a false teacher and leading people to destruction, which would be involved in leading people into sin.
[color=DarkSlateGray]..This is why our friend NOTurTypical is playing a dangerous game here and probably thinks he is winning his way into heaven by doing a "with your mouth" thing but is doing the reverse because what he is doing is presenting arguments for people to accept sinfulness as a status quo and the only important thing is a ticket out and neglecting the fate of everyone else on the planet.
edit on 13-2-2012 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 13 2012 @ 08:24 AM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 



No, you chew on the verse above for a minute, I don't need you to explain exactly what Paul meant in verse 9 when Paul tells me in verse 10.

You have been told this over and over and I will keep repeating the same explanation as long as you persist in your religion of 'sin all you want'.


Lol, "told"? By whom? You? Last time I checked we weren't married nor do I call you dad, and your signature isn't at the bottom of my paycheck. As long as you keep repeating that lie above, I'll keep calling you out on it. When you're lost you are a slave to sin JM, when you are saved you don't want to sin anymore. God's goodness leads a person to repentance.

Wow, still at it, I see.
You are the be-all and end-all and your knowledge trumps EVERYONE.
AND apparently give you license to be RUDE.

You can't call anyone discussing scripture a LIAR, because NO ONE really knows.
Yet you behave as though you were there, you heard every word he said, you saw him personally. Your pompous dismissal of everyone else's perceptions and thoughts on these very esoteric matters is weird, NotUrTypical.

You call it a hobby; but maybe it is you who just doesn't really get the message of Christ. I call it either the willful spreading of false information or else symptomatic of Asperger's Syndrome and/or inability to think in abstract terms.
Asperger syndrome and interpersonal relationships

Here are the important points:

idiosyncratic behavior,
precise language,
unusual interests,
and impaired ability to perceive and respond in socially expected ways to nonverbal cues, particularly in interpersonal conflict.
overly literal,
and may have difficulty interpreting and responding to sarcasm, banter, or metaphorical speech.


Slightly off topic here, but your behavior really is bizarre. I'm offended on behalf of jmdewey and everyone who hangs out in this forum, whether as seekers or simply curious or in crises of faith.

I'm 100% confident that Jesus would not have been favorably impressed with your attitude and preaching. Just sayin'.

I have a couple of sensitive questions for you; I ask them not to be rude or accusatory, but in an effort to try to understand what you are like as a person. NotUrTypical, do you ever regret having written something in haste, and rudely, after not really reading through people's posts? You have a pattern of knee-jerk counter-attack that is becoming increasingly clear.

Do you actually care whether or not you understand what others are saying? Because if you demonstrate this same apparent lack of capacity to comprehend other's well-spoken thoughts when you are 'studying' your 'apologetics' sources, I'd venture you haven't understood them very well, either. Just an observation.



posted on Feb, 13 2012 @ 08:30 AM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 



.So probably five years for me, doing "apologetics". Not with any specific purpose in mind other than getting into controversy to test my own beliefs and to learn to adjust them as necessary.

Well, I for one appreciate your contributions. You are consistently even-handed and willing to listen, and to admit your own shaky areas.

You tolerate abuse by other members that I find appalling, and yet you are still here. I admire that.

Your stated purpose above, to test your own beliefs and learn to adjust them as necessary is courageous, and noble, and shows wisdom. I may not be in agreement with you on everything, but I respect your dignity and care in expressing yourself very much.

Just so you know.



posted on Feb, 13 2012 @ 09:39 AM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 

You can't call anyone discussing scripture a LIAR, because NO ONE really knows.

He may have meant my 'sin all you want' comment, where I use that expression to label his theology.
He gets defensive by saying I am a liar since he never said that.
Then my normal response is to say that he does not need to say it in those exact words to mean it.
Then he goes into diversionary tactics and sluffs it off without ever directly refuting my claim, thus at least to me proving that he really does believe in 'sin all you want'.
Here he is saying 'you would not want to sin if you are saved', as a way to deflect the charge by me.
There is nowhere in the Bible that calls anyone "saved" as in 'we are the saved' being an appropriate label to put on yourselves.
My reply would be that if a person is still sinning, then they have somehow left something important out of their theology, maybe a misunderstanding of the meaning of the term, repentance, and thinking it just means feeling sad about the prospect of going to hell.
edit on 13-2-2012 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 13 2012 @ 04:39 PM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 




"For the whole Law is fulfilled in one word, in the statement, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." (Galatians 5:14)
CORRECT!
You finally got something right!
The GOLDEN RULE is the only rule we need.
Too bad so many of you who call yourselves Christian simply don't do it. But you believe that if you just say you believe, it's all neatly wrapped up. Done. Next!


Wrong. You will bust Hell wide open if you believe and trust in only this. If you follow your mythical "golden rule", you will simply enter into Hell as a good person. There are probably millions more good people in Hell than there are bad. Come on guys....do none of you understand the Bible? Even some of you Christian don't


Jesus never taught us ANYTHING about being a Christian, yet alone how to be saved by grace through faith. Heck, Jesus wasn't even sent to us people!!! He was sent to the JEWS only, Period. The only way you will learn about HOW to go to Heaven, is by reading PAUL. (and maybe the gospel of John if you know what you are looking for John 3:16, 36 etc )
edit on 13-2-2012 by KJV1611 because: i can



posted on Feb, 13 2012 @ 04:46 PM
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reply to post by KJV1611
 



If you follow your mythical "golden rule", you will simply enter into Hell as a good person.

!!!
What?!!
MYTHICAL?!!
It's the one ethic that every major religion agrees upon....it is universal in history, and in scope.
Love is the only way. LOVE of other human beings.
That is what Christ taught. "Treat others the way you would be treated."

If you don't get that, you, sir, are certainly wearing the wrong 'hat' there in your avatar.



posted on Feb, 13 2012 @ 04:47 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 



Grace had to be taught to the gentiles to explain their calling. The Jews needed no such instruction since they firmly understood their election as being through their forefathers.
..If anything Jesus had to work to disinvest them of that and to seek a rebirth,
not relying on their natural birth as being their guaranteed ticket into the kingdom.


Are you just making this stuff up on the go? Where did you get this? Jew, of ANY sect, all know that their birth alone isn't enough to get them into Heaven. All Jews knew good and well that it was THEIR PERSONAL GOOD WORKS of righteousness by following the LAW is what got them into Heaven (Paradise or Abraham's bosom until Christ died, then Heaven)

Only Christians can get into Heaven by the (2nd) birth right.



posted on Feb, 13 2012 @ 04:54 PM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 



It's the one ethic that every major religion agrees upon....it is universal in history, and in scope.
Love is the only way. LOVE of other human beings.

otherwise known as Humanism, which God hates. This is how the UN and NATO were justified.


That is what Christ taught. "Treat others the way you would be treated."
If you don't get that, you, sir, are certainly wearing the wrong 'hat' there in your avatar.

I "get that" but that is not enough to get you into Heaven...not in the least.

Salvation is NOT in a action such as your golden rule. Salvation is in a MAN. The Son of God, Jesus Christ. You guys try to make Jesus a teacher and a religious leader. He was not. Jesus is God Himself. Jesus came to fulfill a mission that you can find in John 15. It had three steps. Once complete he left the details and fine print up to PAUL, the Apostle to the GENTILES..or us.

You either FOLLOW Paul and his teachings, or you go to Hell. There is no alternative.



posted on Feb, 13 2012 @ 05:00 PM
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reply to post by KJV1611
 



You either FOLLOW Paul and his teachings, or you go to Hell.


Can i assume you meant "go to Hell" as an idiom?

likely not eh...




posted on Feb, 13 2012 @ 05:01 PM
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reply to post by Lionhearte
 

The "catch" if there is one, is the supreme challenge a lowly sinner and mortal has, in how to accept a gift of incaculable value, that is unearned, yet freely given ie: that it's too good to be true, but is true (for those who can understand it), and in my mind, that's frick'n hiLARious!!! Oh God, and Jesus, thank you for having such a wonderful sense of HUMOR!

I'll take it, please and thank you very very much, and yes, I fully realize that I'm not worthy!


It's totally AWESOME, such an invitation to participate in an eternal process of co-creation and re-creation, from life to life in eternity, starting NOW.

But at some point, instead of laying prostate in gratitude, we've got to have the courage to stand up tall, and walk straight into paradise, preferably while still alive!




edit on 13-2-2012 by NewAgeMan because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 13 2012 @ 05:02 PM
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reply to post by KJV1611
 



You either FOLLOW Paul and his teachings, or you go to Hell. There is no alternative.

!!
You just made Jesus cry and tear at his hair.

There are MANY paths. We go through many lifetimes of lessons, and eventually we reach the Divine reunion.
Your narrow view is just, well, pathetic. And wrong.
I'd say "see you when we both get there," but....
well,
I'm not sure I will. You seem to be a really 'new' soul.
No worries. You'll get there eventually.


otherwise known as Humanism, which God hates.

WHAT?!! And you know this....how?
He told you?
I think not.

edit on 13-2-2012 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 13 2012 @ 05:09 PM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 

I have great fear and sorrow for those Christians who threaten hell if you don't believe or believe in a certain way. Why? Because it drains the love right out of the invitation presented through none other than Jesus as God's love itself!

What a disgrace, to make something that's all-inclusive, and invitational, into something coersive that must be accepted under duress, that's what they used to do back in the old old days, maybe even with the guy on a rack or something like that - "confessssss".

HYPOCRITES! You traverse the seas in search of converts and end up making them only twice as fit for hell as YOU are!

Jesus isn't too pleased, as God's love, with such nonsense, and those who preach that type of Christ ought to be in FEAR of the very thing they threaten in the name of Christ.



posted on Feb, 13 2012 @ 05:12 PM
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Originally posted by KJV1611
You either FOLLOW Paul and his teachings, or you go to Hell. There is no alternative.

You just lost the crown in your avatar, I kid you not.

Edit to add: If you do not know how to present or introduce Jesus Christ in a loving way BE SILENT and let someone else present him instead because you do not know what you're doing.

Peace of Christ be with you.

NAM
(I'm for a new age of the Christian spirit come alive, and returned to this fallen world)


edit on 13-2-2012 by NewAgeMan because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 13 2012 @ 05:19 PM
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reply to post by Akragon
 



Can i assume you meant "go to Hell" as an idiom?

likely not eh...
No I didn't, but pretty funny none the less


But remember guys....it was ALWAYS the Pharisees and religious "leaders" at the time that called Jesus a teacher and a master (which is like a professor). Those who would be saved later on (His followers) called Him LORD. Jesus was not a religious teacher...He was GOD Himself walking with His people just like He did in the Garden of Eden.



posted on Feb, 13 2012 @ 05:24 PM
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reply to post by KJV1611
 

And if he was Lord, while a human being, then it certainly doesn't belittle us at all as his followers who are meant to grow in stature, and mind, and soul, unto the likeness of Christ himself (although the student can never be as great as the master).

I put forward that Jesus also represents not JUST salvation, but an evolutionary principal for the human being.

Thus no evolved Christian would ever say, believe or you're going to hell, since that's not of the spirit of the living Christ within and among us, who is also the spirit of the living God, and as such, the spirit of Love.


edit on 13-2-2012 by NewAgeMan because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 13 2012 @ 05:25 PM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 



There are MANY paths. We go through many lifetimes of lessons, and eventually we reach the Divine reunion.
Your NARROW view is just, well, pathetic. And wrong.

Come on now...you are making this too easy

MATTHEW 7:14
"Because strait is the gate, and NARROW is the way, which leadeth unto life, and FEW THERE BE that find it.


I'd say "see you when we both get there," but....
well,
I'm not sure I will. You seem to be a really 'new' soul.
No worries. You'll get there eventually.

Sadly, if you keep this mind set up about Paul, I highly doubt I will see you when we get there
And yes, God did tell me He hates Humanism.
ZEPHANIAH 3:8
"Therefore wait ye upon me, saith the LORD, until the day that I rise up to the prey: for my determination is to GATHER THE NATIONS, that I may assemble the kingdoms, to pour upon them mine indignation, even all my fierce anger: for all the earth shall be devoured with the fire of my jealousy."

1 John 2:15
"LOVE NOT THE WORLD, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him."



posted on Feb, 13 2012 @ 05:25 PM
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Originally posted by KJV1611
reply to post by Akragon
 



Can i assume you meant "go to Hell" as an idiom?

likely not eh...
No I didn't, but pretty funny none the less


But remember guys....it was ALWAYS the Pharisees and religious "leaders" at the time that called Jesus a teacher and a master (which is like a professor). Those who would be saved later on (His followers) called Him LORD. Jesus was not a religious teacher...He was GOD Himself walking with His people just like He did in the Garden of Eden.


IF that was the case... (him being God) why would you follow paul?

You make my head hurt my friend... :bnghd:



posted on Feb, 13 2012 @ 05:28 PM
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reply to post by KJV1611
 


Those who would be saved later on (His followers) called Him LORD. Jesus was not a religious teacher..

Okay, you DO realize that the King James Version of the Bible, on which you portray a crown, was translated during the feudal time of people in England (where he lived) who referred to their superiors as "Lord"....right?

What? What in the sam hill are you talking about when you say "He was not a religious teacher"?
He taught the Golden Rule. He disputed the status quo. He taught the truth. The TRUTH, that if you live loving God, and loving your neighbor as yourself, you will reunite with the Divine after several go-rounds here on earth as a mortal, having been "Born Again" time after time while you learn the lessons via experience.




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