Venezuela threatens Britain over Falklands as its president vows to side with Argentina

Originally posted by gabrielxxx
reply to post by michael1983l

 

I answered every question you make me.
Please let me know what you think about the two invations of your country to my country and if they repare on the self determination of the ppl from here..

So what would you like me to do, whats your address i'll send you a sorry card or something?


What is it you want from us people that had FA to do with actions taken by some fat greedy individual over 200yrs ago?


here is an idea we'll give you 200 UK citizens you can brutally murder on national TV, really go to town on them, take it all out in them till there's nothing left, you'll feel so much better when all that anger disappears, but you'll children's children will be fighting the victims of those family's you massacred until we eventually come full circle UNTIL some uses there god forsaken brain and breaks the chain,and learn to forgive & forget ?

When will you realise you're just as bad as the people who was responsible and you are adding/part of the problem and not the solution?, humanity is truly doomed with this big circle of BS,

here... i'm sorry for what they did to your ancestors ok, if you have any brain at all you would understand those action was taken in a totally different world then today, its wasn't because they was evil it was because it was a survival of the fittest, what do you want to achieve seriously?

reply to post by Tifozi

1) The people of Hong Kong are mainly Chinese. The Falkland Islanders are almost entirely (98%) of British descent. Of the 14 remaining British Overseas Territories only Gibraltar had an indigenous population before the British arrived - all the others including the Falklands, Bermuda, the Caymans, St. Helena, etc were uninhabited.

2) The people of Hong Kong were never consulted as to what THEY wanted for THEIR future. I suspect that if a referendum were held they would have voted by a large margin to remain a British Overseas Territory - as Bermuda did in 1995 (75% voted to remain British, 25% for independence) and Gibraltar in 2002 (98% voted to remain British, 2% for joint sovereignty between the UK and Spain) - rather than be incorporated into communist China.

The Macanese (in Macau) also never had the chance to determine their future either - whether they wanted to remain Portuguese, become Chinese, or be independent of both - so much for self determination ....

reply to post by gabrielxxx


Are you purposely ignoring any presented evidence?

Go back a page or two and check out the historical evidence - verified by Argentinians, British, French and Spanish who ALL lay claim that the Falklands are British.

It's called evidence, with research and it's there for you to read or ignore.

--

Also as an Argentinian yourself, why would YOU willingly wish to remove some satisfied, happy, peaceful people from an island that doesn't belong to you, nor has it ever belonged to you.

You are the aggressors in this instance.

reply to post by gabriexxx


There are only 2,000 native islanders on those islands.

Instead of all the windy rhetoric, why don't you just offer each person a million pounds and a free home for life in Argentina ?

Just buy them off.

They're British, after all, they'll do anything for money. Or nylons. Or chocolate.

Just ask the Jerrybags of the Channel Islands, they sold everything including their modesty, for only a few Reichsmarks.

reply to post by BRITWARRIOR


Simple, realize that you did this, like u said, in a different time and give back what belong to us... nothing more...
And about the 50 families living in #land, to get back to their country if they love it some much! Cause these islands were spanish like the contient, and you came here for war, for money. And now, you are doing the same sending these ships... So stop the money collect for the crown and get back to your little island...
You only came here for money and now you are talking about the concern of the ppl of the island.... my god... how much hypocrecy!
Look at your pic at your nick!
You are an animal who only wants war...
what can i spect from someone like you?

well 4 PM time to go to the beach!
And here is hot really hot!
f you think that all the world was freezeing...

Like I told, i love the ppl from England, but the common ppl. not the gready ones from the goverment, and i dont think you are one of them....
I hope that your goverment dont steal your money from the bank... but when they do it, remember me.
We dont have nothing to do with goverments decitions...

And remember the UK goverments gives a lot of money to the kelpers to stay there. if they dont recibe that money they will fly away....

cheers!

Originally posted by Tifozi
reply to post by Soshh

 

Argentina provably hasn't done a thing because they know they will lose in any confrontation. That is not a diplomatic tactic to prevent hostilities, that's plain an simple intimidation.

If the islands were entirely undefended then Argentina could once again attempt to annex them without much difficulty. I don't think that anyone has asserted that maintaining a military presence there is diplomatic, but if it prevents hostilities and loss of life as you said quite rightly, then what exactly is wrong with that?

Like I said, you call it deterrence. I call it intimidation.

Semantics, I know...

There is scant difference between the two terms, although "intimidation" carries negative connotations implying that the military presence there constitutes a threat to Argentina itself. One could argue that it is intimidation directed towards any potential attackers, but that is hardly unreasonable. No-one will come to any harm until Argentina sends military aircraft and naval vessels towards the Falklands in anger, in which case they can expect a nasty reaction as this is an act of war and in wars, people get killed.

But to me, it would be more beneficial to take things to the negotiations table once and for all, and make a real effort to come to agreement, than to make an habit of sending powerful warships to an area that doesn't even belong to the UK national waters.

Britain has in the past made attempts to convince both Argentina and the Falkland Islanders to accept a joint sovereignty agreement. Argentina is not interested in any settlement that does not involve Britain transferring full sovereignty to them and Britain is not interested in negotiations that dismiss the views of the islanders. Argentina does not consider the wishes of the islanders to be relevant, which is convenient because the islanders are happy with the status quo, minus Argentine harassment of course. How can negotiations take place within this environment?

reply to post by mr-lizard

Thank you,

Great post. Great website. I'm certain to spend many hours there. I want to digest the many referenced items in great detail. The referenced 2007 pamphlet appears to be a biased joke.

Originally posted by LeBombDiggity
reply to post by gabriexxx

 

There are only 2,000 native islanders on those islands.

Instead of all the windy rhetoric, why don't you just offer each person a million pounds and a free home for life in Argentina ?

Just buy them off.

They're British, after all, they'll do anything for money. Or nylons. Or chocolate.

Just ask the Jerrybags of the Channel Islands, they sold everything including their modesty, for only a few Reichsmarks.

Joking aside. There is sense in this.

If Argentina really wanted the Islands to become argentinian (rather than to create an anti British furore as a distraction) they should have accepted the oil sharing deal and buried the hatchet.

Over generations the proximity to Argentina and friendly relations lubricated by oil money would see the place drift from Britain towards Argentina.

They fact they haven't gone this route has 2 possible underlying reasons:

a) they are really quite dim
b) It is wanted as a political distraction

Originally posted by gabrielxxx
reply to post by BRITWARRIOR

 

Simple, realize that you did this, like u said, in a different time and give back what belong to us... nothing more...
And about the 50 families living in #land, to get back to their country if they love it some much! Cause these islands were spanish like the contient, and you came here for war, for money. And now, you are doing the same sending these ships... So stop the money collect for the crown and get back to your little island...
You only came here for money and now you are talking about the concern of the ppl of the island.... my god... how much hypocrecy!
Look at your pic at your nick!
You are an animal who only wants war...
what can i spect from someone like you?

No I DID NOTHING! you moron

I'm giving back nothing, certainly something that never was yours you deluded tit,

The Spanish come THERE for war and money, how else do you think Argentina ended up a Spanish speaking 3rd world?

collecting money for the crown? just to clear this up its 2012 ok marty?

And for the record the continent was not Spanish was it, who did it belong to before the Spanish came to rape pillage & plunder?


I want war? sorry pal but your the one who wants to steal an island that doesn't and never did belong to you, also calling its inhabitants scum, over my dead body

Maybe you should get down your local army recruiting office and work up the balls to forcefully take them, because lets face it you don't have a legal leg to stand on

reply to post by PurpleDog UK


Yes I would because I am German. Duh.

Originally posted by gabrielxxx
reply to post by michael1983l

 

like I told you from that 3000 ppl, the half are latin americans working for english companyes and they dont leave there.... they go there to work for a season.
from the 1500, the half are military spending seasons there...
So you only have 700 kelpers... and the half are from another islands... only 50 families lives there...
Are you reading wath im posting or are you going to re ask everything??
Let me know your thouhgts about the two english invasions against argentinean continent before the invasion of the islands
And the self determination thing,,,, was before 1833.... and 1832 like i told you was ocupied by spanish...

I think you should take a look at this link which is census information for the falklands and then maybe change your position,

Half most certainly are not latin americans =)

Falklands Info

reply to post by ChrisF231


As for the first part of your post, I already said I wasn't comparing the 2 cases. I was giving an example of successful negotiations carried out by the UK.

As for the rest...

You are actually talking to a portuguese, and I have serious doubts you have anything to teach me regarding Macau, since I actually had family working there for over 20 years. And if you don't agree with my example of Hong Kong, putting Macau into the discussion is even more ridiculous, since Macau actually loves the portuguese community, and welcomes them.

Furthermore, the Macau "hand-over" to the Chinese was actually a party were both governments complemented each-other on how things got handled and how powers switched from one to another, without any confrontation whatsoever. Oh, and both communities (the people who lived there from both countries) were represented as well.

Not only that, the relationship that came out of it was beneficial for everyone. Macau has grown since it joined China, and they actually went to as far as to thank the portuguese for the investments made there, that allowed them to grow after we left.

Portugal and China have strong ties. Actually... I don't think there is a single country with bad relationship status with Portugal.

And in case you don't know, Portugal had an external empire that would put to shame anything that any other country had at the time. The Portuguese Kings of that era (1500/1600) earned up to 30 times more than the Kings of England and France combined.

My country not only lost an empire, it also lost all of it's external territories and colonies.

Why? Because countries in the U.N. were sanctioning Portugal and calling us colonial freaks and monsters, just because we didn't want to hand our colonies in Africa.

That's why it is hard for me to understand why this BS about the Falkland still lingers on.

It's not because of the lack of good and bad examples to follow, and it's not because there is "no other way". It's because the UK wants to, and has enough power to keep it that way. There were a lot of people who wanted to keep the status quo in Macau. Yet governments negotiated and worked things out, partially because China wanted Macau, partially because we were being forced (BY OTHER COUNTRIES) to give it up.

Do you know what came out of it?

Macau still has it's own powers, and will continue that way until 2050. Police force, internal affairs, administrative powers, legal system. Everything was kept, and China only stepped in to supply them with defense(since Portugal removed it's troops) and represent them in foreign affairs.

Not only that, it was all accomplished with 4 (I kid you not) conferences between the two countries.

Macau is not only a growing region in China (it's now called the Las Vegas of Asia), but it has small details like... being the region with one of the highest life expectancies in the world.

That's why I don't take as granted when people from the UK (which I respect plenty) tell me "It has been done before, and doesn't work".

What on earth are they teaching you argies


seriously?


All of your facts are different from each others and you have been caught out on EVERYTHING! thus far

Im from argentina, and i believe the islands should remain british.

First off, the guys living there wish to remain part of the UK.
Then of course, argentinas goverment cant even properly handle health care or education (despite what many may say), theres no logic in claiming a land, you wont be even able to take care of properly. I think we should fist try to solve our own problems, instead of claiming some islands, we wont be able to sustain.

Oh and Argentina gave the islands away, Rosas signed a treaty around 1840. so i think thats settes it.

reply to post by BRITWARRIOR


Well you know, newspapers and tv stations spread the lies the goverment wishes us to believe. They been prolly lying to us about this malvinas issue too.

I can't remember when exactly but about 15 or 20 years ago the Argentinian government offered each and every Falkland Islands resident £500,000 sterling each to give up their British Passports and take on Argentinian passports. If memory serves me correctly, 100% of residents refused this generous offer.
That should tell you what the Islanders want.

The islands may have oil under them which is the ONLY #ING REASON the argies are interested as with Venezuela too . This obviously wasn't known in 1690 when British people first moved there, there were no other inhabitants at the time. After 422 years of British people living there, I would say it's a British set of islands. If anyone disagrees, particularly Americans, then get the # out of the states, because your asses have been there a lot less and the indigenous were all but ethnically cleansed and still have the lowest life expectancy and expected successful job interviews in the states than that of any other ethnic group.

Originally posted by PrecogPsychicSensitive

Originally posted by michael1983l

Originally posted by PrecogPsychicSensitive
England needs to quit with the colony crap and mind its own business, leave those islands to the South Americans to manage.. if the Islands were parked off Englands shores I'd say they have a claim, but they are half a world away. Is England that petty it must fight over tiny pieces of land? Apparently so.. shameful.

Shameful, what allowing the Islanders to choose their own soverignty. That makes us colonialists does it, letting the people choose to be part of our nation. I suppose Argentina forcing their rule on those people doesn't make them colonialist though?

Mind our own business? It is our Business, the government of the Falkland Islands have asked our protection against their Argentinian oppressors.

Please England... come down and start a huge war that will contaminate and destroy these islands ASAP!

I have read all about the history of those Islands.. its time England backed off... enough blood has already been spilt over a scrappy bunch of worthless islands.. oh wait.. did they discover oil? let the UN deal with it... you seem to like UN justice most of the time.

You are a very uneducated person. England is one country in a group called The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, yet you know only England. You state you have read all about their history:

here is my double post especially for you:

I can't remember when exactly but about 15 or 20 years ago the Argentinian government offered each and every Falkland Islands resident £500,000 sterling each to give up their British Passports and take on Argentinian passports. If memory serves me correctly, 100% of residents refused this generous offer.
That should tell you what the Islanders want.

The islands may have oil under them which is the ONLY #ING REASON the argies are interested as with Venezuela too . This obviously wasn't known in 1690 when British people first moved there, there were no other inhabitants at the time. After 422 years of British people living there, I would say it's a British set of islands. If anyone disagrees, particularly Americans, then get the # out of the states, because your asses have been there a lot less and the indigenous were all but ethnically cleansed and still have the lowest life expectancy and expected successful job interviews in the states than that of any other ethnic group.

Originally posted by gabrielxxx
Hello guys!
I never post here, but i think its time. Im from Argentina, Im 31 years old. I live in Buenos Aires, now im on vacation 500km away at a beach town. Ive got my own bussines with 50 employes. I also sell US products, im an oficcial retailer of Hawaiian Tropic US here in Argentina. So I have a good life.
For the last 14 years i been studie a lot of history and politics from all the world. I went to university and i graduated from international bussines school...
To start talking about Malvinas, lets do some history

1806 - First UK invation of Argentina. They loose, so they get back to UK.
1807 -Second UK invation of Argentina. After invaded Monte Video, Uruguay, yhey also try to invade Argentina again. And they loose again.
These two invasions were under the napolionic wars beetwen England and France.
(you think the english asked the argentinean ppl if they want to be invaded???? hehehe... my god...

1824 - England reconized the sobering of Argentina and signed the Monroe doctrin from USA saying they not would invaded the country anymore...

1832 - The britain PM Lord Palmeston order the invation of the island. Captain Pinedo was in charge of the island with only one ship and a few mens...

1833 - UK invaded the islands. Pinedo with their mens surrender under the power of the britain ships.

Are you still thinking that those island were empty?
Are you sure Argentina is the agressor?

1982 - Argetina was under a dictatorial goverment, like all south american countries at that time. All these goverment were powered by the CFR of the USA. This goverment kill at least 30.000 ppl. all university students, not guerrilla or something like that...
Videla was our president, a drunk man who only respond to the council of foreing relationships... not the ppl...
Cause the regime was going down, they start a war against UK for the islands. Nobody here wanted to go to war against UK , everybody here knows that the UK army is one of the biggest arround the world.

2003 - Argentina economy start growing above 8% after the 2001 default. Since that year our economy grows over a 5% a year.
An example: in 1999 before the crisis Argentina sold 90.000 cars per year. From 2010 Argentina is selling more than a millon year.
All latin America it's growing at that level, less Chile, that got a lot of comerce with the USA so they are falling like USA...

2012 - 30 years conmemorating the war. Argentina want the islands back but in a diplomatic way (Monroe doctrin, the island are on our national sea, the depth of the waters make the islands parth of Argentina, no mather they are more than 200 miles away...) but the UK send ships and subs.... and u still thinking we are the agresor???
come on!!!

Facts:
The island was occupied at 1833 when the UK invaded them
The UK try to invaded the continent too in two times...
3000 ppl live at those island. The half of that ppl. are latin americans who work for the UK ships. The half of the other half are military personal. So you ve got only 700 ppl who you can call kelpers, and they live there cause they are poor ppl. from other parts of the UK that goes there cause the British empire gave them a lot of money to stay there.

So, you want to nuke a country cause 700 ppl wants to live with out a job?

hehehehe....

Im sure you never been out of your country.... Last july i went to london on vacations for a month. I watched the riots there, i was on brick lane and the riots were a few blocks away... I think that there is the answer to all this... UK is about to default like all Europe and the USA.... And they need to keep the ppl entretained with all these wars.... We are gorwing like never mate, we dont want war... we dont need it. Our country is one of the 5 biggest countries in the world. We dont need those island. But stop saying that they belong to the UK , cause that is a lie...
So if you ask me, take the island and put them in your ass...

I leave you cause it's beach time and ive got my BMW X3 and my Yamaha Banshee waiting for me at my front yard.

Cheers mate!

The islands were first inhabited by Brits in 1690 and there were no other inhabitants as the conditions were almost unlivable, like all countries your country wants an oil war

Found this at www.cia.gov...


Argentina, which claims the islands in its constitution and briefly occupied them by force in 1982, agreed in 1995 to no longer seek settlement by force; UK continues to reject Argentine requests for sovereignty talks