Why my mind is closing towards Capitalism

Originally posted by NoHierarchy
Oh shut up...

If anyone's a danger it's you right-wingers... arming yourselves to hunt down liberals... JUST LIKE HITLER DID. But no worries. we'll NEVER LET THAT HAPPEN AGAIN. If brown-shirts start storming around (I don't care if they're right or left wing) at the behest of any truly authoritarian government or economic system, they will be snuffed out. Stop attacking people who should be your allies, it's despicable and stupid.

Try to shut me up...

BTW, talking about Hitler...

"We are socialists, we are enemies of today's capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions." --Adolf Hitler

(Speech of May 1, 1927. Quoted by Toland, 1976, p. 306)

constitutionalistnc.tripod.com...

I wonder where I heard that before?..

But of course socialists are going to TRY to claim "he wasn't a real socialist" but he was...

FACTS speak for themselves...

Originally posted by NoHierarchy

Originally posted by aravoth

Originally posted by ANOK
We have cell phones, but we still rely on oil for fuel?

yeah, and that happens because people want to artificially control prices so that things can be "affordable and fair to everyone". So we subsidize oil so everyone can have access to it, because thats apparently the "fair thing to do right? Everyone sharing the burden?

Don't even blame that crap on capitalism, you have no idea what you are talking about. Had there been none of this B.S. "Fair Prices" and "access for everyone" the market would have pushed out electric cars in mass years ago. It was, and still is in demand. But none wants to lift the subsidy, because then "poor people would be left out".

Capitalism has nothing to do with that. Not even close.

So... in a freer market, these oil companies DIDN'T lobby (and hijack) our government to subsidize them and do their bidding?? What you don't realize is that... so long as government exists, if you free the market of regulations, then there is NOTHING STOPPING LARGE COMPANIES FROM HIJACKING GOVERNMENT ALL OVER AGAIN! You NEED regulations to prevent this, period. There is nothing in a free market that inherently PREVENTS companies from using any opportunity to profit/expand/win. If it means out-competing another company, so be it, if it means hijacking government to help them out, so be it. There are no rules, it's gambling and it gets dirty... this corporatism we have is born of an unholy alliance of Capitalism and government.

It's ALL part of Capitalism in state society... and GUESS WHAT! Capitalism was BORN of state-society! Capitalism was BORN of hierarchy, nation-states, civilization, exploitation, money/profit/monetary systems, and of stratification. They go hand in hand... ownership and states were born together as one during the Agricultural Revolution. Look it up.

edit on 2-2-2012 by NoHierarchy because: (no reason given)

regulations are written by corporations so that they alone will benefit, you want more of that? be my guest. You people are confused, severely

Originally posted by NoHierarchy

WRONG AGAIN.

Republicans of THAT DAY AND AGE in American history were SOCIALIST-LEANING.

The DEMOCRATS were SOUTHERN DEMOCRATS and are considered to be conservative and largely racist.

DO YOUR HOMEWORK.

The BS leftwingers try to tell themselves to twist the truth... WOW...

"Republicans were socialist-leaning"

I guess that's why they wrote the Constitution of the United States huh?...

Do you forget that the constitution states for example EVERY individual has the right to private property?...

Is that a tenet of socialism?...

How can you not be ignorant of history, socialism, and the Constitution of the Republic of these United States making claims like that?...

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


Hitler was a socialist and he did alot of good things for Germany and the workers.

To say Hitler was a socialist as if that proves socialism doesnt work is as strawman as the rest of what you are saying.

are you going to say socialism is genocide? I hope so. All this strawman stuff helps sell socialism.

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


Everyone was a socialist according to these guys... everyone.

Originally posted by ANOK

Originally posted by NoHierarchy
Though to be fair, our infrastructure is largely controlled by government.

And the reason it has problems financially taking care of the infrastructure?

Because capitalist interests spend our tax money on wars to advance their exploitation of other markets, or to reduce competition. The reason we will attack Iran for their nuclear program. They will be able to sell plutonium on the 'free-market' and compete with America. That is always been the reason for nuclear power, it's the only way to produce plutonium for bombs on a large enough scale.

edit on 2/2/2012 by ANOK because: typo

Sure... there's definitely something to be said about financial/corporate interests dictating our governments expenditures and cutting funding to things that actually benefit the common man.

Originally posted by theubermensch
reply to post by ElectricUniverse

 

Hitler was a socialist and he did alot of good things for Germany and the workers.

To say Hitler was a socialist as if that proves socialism doesnt work is as strawman as the rest of what you are saying.

He sure did didn't he, especially that part when he smashed out the windows of every Jewish business, that was probably really good for the German worker!!

The constitution was written long before there were republicans- and the key fathers had nothing in common with republicans anyway.

Originally posted by aravoth

He sure did didn't he, especially that part when he smashed out the windows of every Jewish business, that was probably really good for the German worker!!

Amazing...

these people are complete ignorant of worl history, and the history of the United States, yet they claim they are not despite their statements showing the contrary...

Originally posted by aravoth

Originally posted by theubermensch
reply to post by ElectricUniverse

 

Hitler was a socialist and he did alot of good things for Germany and the workers.

To say Hitler was a socialist as if that proves socialism doesnt work is as strawman as the rest of what you are saying.

He sure did didn't he, especially that part when he smashed out the windows of every Jewish business, that was probably really good for the German worker!!

It was great for them yes. Affirmative Action for the worker.

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by aravoth

He sure did didn't he, especially that part when he smashed out the windows of every Jewish business, that was probably really good for the German worker!!

Amazing...

these people are complete ignorant of worl history, and the history of the United States, yet they claim they are not despite their statements showing the contrary...

Really? I know alot about Hitler. Lets throw down. What am I ignorant of?

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


Damn look at your own signature...

"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen." - Samuel Adams

Liberty was a left wing term until the 1950's, when it was appropriated by the right in America.

Understanding history will help you understand the rest. Samuel Adams was an early left-wing thinker.

"Were the talents and virtues which heaven has bestowed on men given merely to make them more obedient drudges, to be sacrificed to the follies and ambition of a few? Or, were not the noble gifts so equally dispensed with a divine purpose and law, that they should as nearly as possible be equally exerted, and the blessings of Providence be equally enjoyed by all?

Classic early left wing thinking, before left wing ideas were fully realised that became socialism. Again you are confused because you are taught socialism is something other than the original definition. Socialism as it is seen now by the mainstream, is not the way people saw it in the 1700, 1800 and early 1900's.

"If ever time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." --Samuel Adams

Which is what capitalism has done. That is not what Sam Adams was advocating.

Originally posted by CB328
The constitution was written long before there were republicans- and the key fathers had nothing in common with republicans anyway.

Really?...

U.S. Constitution - Article 4 Section 4


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Article 4 - The States
Section 4 - Republican Government


The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence.

www.usconstitution.net...

A Republican is an advocate of a Republic and is against all forms of dictatorship...

In the United States a TRUE Republican is someone who is in favor of the United States Constitution and the princicles that the founding fathers of this Republic agreed on...

That's what it means to be a Republican...

The Republican party has been corrupted because leftwingers gave power to the banker elites known as the Feds...

Whoever controls the economy of a nation, controls that nation...

Originally posted by theubermensch

Originally posted by aravoth

Originally posted by theubermensch
reply to post by ElectricUniverse

 

Hitler was a socialist and he did alot of good things for Germany and the workers.

To say Hitler was a socialist as if that proves socialism doesnt work is as strawman as the rest of what you are saying.

He sure did didn't he, especially that part when he smashed out the windows of every Jewish business, that was probably really good for the German worker!!

It was great for them yes. Affirmative Action for the worker.

Yeah.......

You are a disgusting human being. But hey, hope that socialist, "Hitler was a great dude" thing works out for ya!

Left is Right and Right is Left
It's a distraction for the theft
Before you know there's nothing left

It's about your rights
trickery putting you in tights
soon won't be able to show your plights

Originally posted by ANOK
reply to post by ElectricUniverse

 

Damn look at your own signature...

"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen." - Samuel Adams

Liberty was a left wing term until the 1950's, when it was appropriated by the right in America.

Understanding history will help you understand the rest. Samuel Adams was an early left-wing thinker.

"Were the talents and virtues which heaven has bestowed on men given merely to make them more obedient drudges, to be sacrificed to the follies and ambition of a few? Or, were not the noble gifts so equally dispensed with a divine purpose and law, that they should as nearly as possible be equally exerted, and the blessings of Providence be equally enjoyed by all?

Classic early left wing thinking, before left wing ideas were fully realised that became socialism. Again you are confused because you are taught socialism is something other than the original definition. Socialism as it is seen now by the mainstream, is not the way people saw it in the 1700, 1800 and early 1900's.

"If ever time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." --Samuel Adams

Which is what capitalism has done. That is not what Sam Adams was advocating.

EVERY SINGLE PERSON WITH ANY HISTORICAL INFLUENCE AT ALL WAS A LEFT WING THINKER TO YOU!

And liberty was NOT a left wing term, that is by far the most stupid thing you have said today. Like the "left" invented the word..... good god you people are insane.

Originally posted by aravoth

Originally posted by theubermensch

Originally posted by aravoth

Originally posted by theubermensch
reply to post by ElectricUniverse

 

Hitler was a socialist and he did alot of good things for Germany and the workers.

To say Hitler was a socialist as if that proves socialism doesnt work is as strawman as the rest of what you are saying.

He sure did didn't he, especially that part when he smashed out the windows of every Jewish business, that was probably really good for the German worker!!

It was great for them yes. Affirmative Action for the worker.

Yeah.......

You are a disgusting human being. But hey, hope that socialist, "Hitler was a great dude" thing works out for ya!

I never said he was a great dude did I? I said he did alot for the German worker. Do you deny that?

Or is Hitler just Emmanuel Goldstein to you?

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


Again if you read through this damn thread you will see this have been covered already.

The right appropriated left wing terms to gain support from the people who were heavily left wing at that time. Hitler was lying about being a socialist in that speech.

Hitler supported capitalism, no workers ever owned the means of production in Nazi Germany. He was a fascist, he was in league with Mussolini and Franco, he put socialists in the camps, he fought the socialist in Spain.

You are the one that doesn't understand the history of Europe.

"I absolutely insist on protecting private property... we must encourage private initiative" Hitler.

Only in America will you hear Hitler was a socialist, where political and economic terms have been turned upside down to keep the people from realizing they could be better off. It's no different than Hitler using the term socialism, and the USSR calling itself communist. It's just propaganda to keep controlling and exploiting the people.

What do the "capitalists" want?????????? EVERYTHING!!!!

Seriously would be curious to hear some opinions on the middle path.

Is there a possibility for "progress"? Remember slavery was legal and church sanctioned not so long ago.

There is a "race to the bottom" with the current system.

Any chance we can raise that "bottom"? Can we legislate common decency?
I have no problem with freedom. Liberty vs equality. Yet shouldn't there be a rock bottom minimum of what is acceptable for human decency?

I have a vision of a future without hunger and everybody has a place and some minimum opportunities. Real machines do the machine type work and all the people benefit from the machine work not just a few rich folks. You don't need to prove you are worthy. Just being born is a guarantee you will be treated with decency and dignity. That would be the "new bottom" for sentient beings.

That new bottom is where we all can start from and build and create our lives.

Originally posted by theubermensch

Originally posted by aravoth

Originally posted by theubermensch

Originally posted by aravoth

Originally posted by theubermensch
reply to post by ElectricUniverse

 

Hitler was a socialist and he did alot of good things for Germany and the workers.

To say Hitler was a socialist as if that proves socialism doesnt work is as strawman as the rest of what you are saying.

He sure did didn't he, especially that part when he smashed out the windows of every Jewish business, that was probably really good for the German worker!!

It was great for them yes. Affirmative Action for the worker.

Yeah.......

You are a disgusting human being. But hey, hope that socialist, "Hitler was a great dude" thing works out for ya!

I never said he was a great dude did I? I said he did alot for the German worker. Do you deny that?

Or is Hitler just Emmanuel Goldstein to you?

No no, he did a lot for the German worker, like eliminating roughly 6 million people out of the German workforce forever, and guess what that did?

Thats right! Created artificial scarcity!! Man People must have loved him, I bet every German who wanted a job got one after that.

Good point! Socialism works like a charm every single time.