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Iran wants to use nuclear weapon, Harper says

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posted on Jan, 7 2012 @ 12:12 PM
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Iran could just stop playing chicken with trade routes and unnecessary nuclear facilities.

I know that would be way too sensible.

Intrepid - there is plenty of capacity to nuclear in Canada, and there are nuclear weapons in Canada. I'm glad to show you that your concern is already a reality.




posted on Jan, 7 2012 @ 12:13 PM
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Originally posted by newyorkee

Originally posted by BrianOrion

Originally posted by newyorkee
I´ll stick to my original point....he didn't say to wipe Israel off the map....after that you do your homework like the rest of us.....

.this is lame....you are no challenge...just an angry little man.....go ahead...I now GIVE you back this thread to call me all the names you want.....my responses can't be erased and everyone will see what a tool you have become.....happy drooling


If anybody reads our interaction, and one of my ATS contacts has... they would possibly conclude that you were incapable of answering ANY question I asked of you... that you became quite abusive and I responded to your abuse... that YOU are anti-American (whatever that means)... and that you are seemingly so much in support of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad that you could be Mahmoud Ahmadinejad...

Did Mahmoud Ahmadinejad say that he would try to lead his nation towards a peaceful direction and develop 'friendships' with the American/Zionists? Or did Mahmoud Ahmadinejad decide himself to be some sort of Islamic deliverer, opposed to anything 'western' and 'American?'

Only LOVE can conquer FEAR... now run along little boy... mommy has your dinner on the table


so got proof of how my translation was wrong like you said it was....no....ok go back to drooling.....you are so cute...what questions.....you just called me a muslim a bunch of times......you are so lame....


Ok... remember that you forced this situation... you have nobody to blame but yourself... silly boy...

Your 'source' that YOU provided as proof that Mahmoud Ahmadinejad did NOT say 'wipe off the map' is so hypocritical, IMO, that you are definitely splitting hairs... allow me to digress...

All quotes will be from your provided source...

"On Wednesday 26th October 2005, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad delivered a speech entitled "The World without Zionism." ... Question... what does that mean? 'The World without Zionism?' ... Zionism (Hebrew: ציונות‎, Tsiyonut) is a Jewish political movement that, in its broadest sense, has supported the self-determination of the Jewish people in a sovereign Jewish national homeland... Thus, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's speech was concerning a "World without the Jewish political movement, that is Zionism." ...and this leads to another question... "Should Jewish people be entitled to a sovereign Jewish national homeland?" As a person that is totally unbiased, due to the fact that I am not from Iran, nor am I Jewish, I find myself agreeing that the ancient Jewish people should indeed be entitled to a 'sovereign Jewish national homeland.' ..... With a quick glance at history, that land is what we (in the UK) refer to as the 'Holyland.' This territory includes Jerusalem which was 'stolen' from the Jews by the Muslims... according to most historians in 638AD... so this conflict is not new at all...

The question still stands: What did Mahmoud Ahmadinejad mean when making a speech concerning "The World without Zionism?" According to your source, and indeed others, there was a clear "graphic depicting an hour glass containing Planet Earth at the top and two small round orbs representing the USA and Israel falling through the hour glass' narrow neck, falling to the bottom."

What was this display trying to depict? (Answers on a post card please)...

Allegedly, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad went on to quote Ayatollah Khomeini, who was famously 'anti-western' and at least partially responsible for the deaths of thousands of people due to his dislike of Israel and America... what a nice guy to quote, no?

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's decision to follow in the footsteps of Ayatollah Khomeini with his 'hatred' of Israel and the USA sent a clear message to the world and his statement that, "The regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time" can hardly be argued to be anything other than an anti-American and anti-Israeli statement...

Are you prepared to argue that Mahmoud Ahmadinejad had no intention of following up his original speech, with his 'hatred' of the 'West' ??? Can you see why someone translated "vanish from the page of time" as "wiped of the map???" ... Is there REALLY that much of a difference in sentiment? I, personally, think not...

When Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was questioned in 2006... according to the source YOU provided, he evaded the question regarding 'wiping Israel off the map' and refused to answer... he claimed that Palestine should be able to determine their own future... do you not find it incredible that NO Islamic state has yet to offer the 5 million or so displaced people permanent refugee status?

Would intellect not conclude, if a Leader of a Nation was so badly mistranslated, they themselves would deny it? Why has Mahmoud Ahmadinejad never answered the question head-on? As in, deny that he intended to imply Israel be 'wiped off the map' ... ???



posted on Jan, 7 2012 @ 12:15 PM
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Originally posted by Aeons
Iran could just stop playing chicken with trade routes and unnecessary nuclear facilities.

I know that would be way too sensible.


It takes 2 to play chicken. Why does the West continue to provoke?


and there are nuclear weapons in Canada.


I've heard that before but nothing substantive. Speculation.

ETA: Brian and newyorkee, would you guys please knock of the backhanded insults? We're attempting to have a mature discussion here.
edit on 7-1-2012 by intrepid because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 7 2012 @ 12:15 PM
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Originally posted by nightbringr

Originally posted by xuenchen
A friend of mine is from Iran.

Went to college in USA.

Speaks fluent English and Farsi.

He tells me that Ahmadinejad uses a slightly localized dialect.

He agrees with this translation:

The Real deal





And a friend of mine is Iranian. She moved to Canada shortly after the brutal Iranian crackdown after the scam of an election they last held.

It was the last straw for her family. During protests, her brother was beaten and then detained without charges by the Basij. He was held for shortly under a month. During that time he was beaten and locked in a freezing, white room naked. When he tried to sleep, they splashed cold water on him.

After his release, her family decided enough was enough. They were well connected, and able to buy passage out of Iran though Turkey. They pack their things and fled. She has confided in me about the bloodlust the Iranian government and clergy feel towards the Jews. Hell, ive said it time and time again, say what you want about those translations, you cannot deny that Ahmadinjad and the Ayatollah incite massive prayer rallies to chant "Death to USA! Death to Israel!" over and over, and publicly hang gays in the streets. These are not the actions of a sane, reasonable government.

We may have problems here in the West, but the day we start hanging people in the streets for the simple crime of being gay or cheating on your husband with the consent of the government is the day i take up arms and attempt an overthrow.

edit on 7-1-2012 by nightbringr because: (no reason given)


Oooga booga! Muslim Bogey man! Iran gonna get ya!


There are 25,000 Jews living in Iran. When Israel backed a plan to pay Iranian Jewish families $60,000 to settle in Israel, Society of Iranian Jews met the announcement with scorn, issuing this statement: "The identity of Iranian Jews is not tradable for any amount of money. Iranian Jews are among the most ancient Iranians. Iran's Jews love their Iranian identity and their culture, so threats and this immature political enticement will not achieve their aim of wiping out the identity of Iranian Jews."



The Jews in Iran seem to paint a much different picture than "your friend in Iran".

I know people from Iran too, and they have told me some stories. Iran isn't the beacon of human rights, but Jews in Iran have just as many rights as all other Iranians.

Persians are not a racist people as you have been duped into believing. They embrace Judaism, Iran even hosts many different conferences that revolve around Judaism.
edit on 7-1-2012 by Corruption Exposed because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 7 2012 @ 12:17 PM
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Originally posted by xuenchen
I think countries and states that have nukes are dangerous.


There is still an ENORMOUS difference between a somewhat democratic government and a regime with religious extremists. If you can't see that nuclear bombs in the hands of religious extremists is dangerous...i can't help you.



posted on Jan, 7 2012 @ 12:21 PM
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Originally posted by newyorkee
since you worry about all people.....what about IRAN.....this sort of rhetoric causes wars like IRAQ......or did you forget about all the lives that caused to end abruptly....argue peace.....or live with being the war monger you advocate by proxy....

so you want us to bomb iran is that it.....oh you are such a saint....I see you have been busy here on ATS.....really want to get into it


I love when people make up things to suit their cause.

Do these for me:

-point out where i said i want to bomb Iran,

-point out where i said i care nothing about the people of Iran, I did in fact say i cared about ALL people, not just our own problems here in North America.

All I am stating is Iran is no saint. Do you approve of them hanging gays in the streets? Have you watched any of the footage of them killing and beating people in the streets after their last electon? Read my story about my Iranian friend?

People like you are pathetic. You rage all day against the West, and think the East can do no wrong. Sorry, the world isnt perfect over there either.



posted on Jan, 7 2012 @ 12:23 PM
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reply to post by Aeons
 


Of those people though, how many actually believe what he has to say now, in your honest opinion? If they still believe him, than I fear we may be in a bit more trouble than I thought. Harper is one of the worst we've ever had. He makes Bush look like a philanthropist. McGuinty could be worse though, as I've yet to discover if certain decisions are coming from the federal or provincial level.



posted on Jan, 7 2012 @ 12:24 PM
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Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by Aeons
Iran could just stop playing chicken with trade routes and unnecessary nuclear facilities.

I know that would be way too sensible.


It takes 2 to play chicken. Why does the West continue to provoke?


and there are nuclear weapons in Canada.


I've heard that before but nothing substantive. Speculation.

ETA: Brian and newyorkee, would you guys please knock of the backhanded insults? We're attempting to have a mature discussion here.
edit on 7-1-2012 by intrepid because: (no reason given)



Other nations are assuring the continue use of international trade routes. Calling that provocative seems....provocative.

And the nuclear thing isn't speculation. There is a reason Canada doesn't show up on non-nuclear countries and all experts have Canada as a country capable of becoming nuclear with weapons within months or weeks. The facilities that house nuclear weapons in Canada have been here for a long time.

There is a difference between unacknowledged and speculative.



posted on Jan, 7 2012 @ 12:24 PM
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Originally posted by newyorkee

Originally posted by BrianOrion

Originally posted by newyorkee
I´ll stick to my original point....he didn't say to wipe Israel off the map....after that you do your homework like the rest of us.....

.this is lame....you are no challenge...just an angry little man.....go ahead...I now GIVE you back this thread to call me all the names you want.....my responses can't be erased and everyone will see what a tool you have become.....happy drooling


If anybody reads our interaction, and one of my ATS contacts has... they would possibly conclude that you were incapable of answering ANY question I asked of you... that you became quite abusive and I responded to your abuse... that YOU are anti-American (whatever that means)... and that you are seemingly so much in support of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad that you could be Mahmoud Ahmadinejad...

Did Mahmoud Ahmadinejad say that he would try to lead his nation towards a peaceful direction and develop 'friendships' with the American/Zionists? Or did Mahmoud Ahmadinejad decide himself to be some sort of Islamic deliverer, opposed to anything 'western' and 'American?'

Only LOVE can conquer FEAR... now run along little boy... mommy has your dinner on the table


so got proof of how my translation was wrong like you said it was....no....ok go back to drooling.....you are so cute...what questions.....you just called me a muslim a bunch of times......you are so lame....


Just to clarify... at NO point did I call you a 'Muslim' ... you do seem to imply that you would consider this an insult, however, or am I wrong? I DID twice say you could be Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, though not in reference to the fact that he is a Muslim, more to the fact that I find your style dictatorial... I DID conclude, due to your defensiveness that you were either 1) Muslim ... OR 2) Not so.... thus neither claiming one nor the other...

I am sure that you are not very intelligent, however... BUT I do hope you allow yourself to grow and develop your potential... for one day, you too could attain greatness



posted on Jan, 7 2012 @ 12:26 PM
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reply to post by Corruption Exposed
 


Crooks like HIMSELF are the biggest threat to world peace!

It infuriates me how the State TV/radio is contributing to this nonsense war propaganda... we indeed are in times of war.



posted on Jan, 7 2012 @ 12:27 PM
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Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by Aeons
Iran could just stop playing chicken with trade routes and unnecessary nuclear facilities.

I know that would be way too sensible.


It takes 2 to play chicken. Why does the West continue to provoke?


and there are nuclear weapons in Canada.


I've heard that before but nothing substantive. Speculation.

ETA: Brian and newyorkee, would you guys please knock of the backhanded insults? We're attempting to have a mature discussion here.
edit on 7-1-2012 by intrepid because: (no reason given)


I apologise if my participation here has caused you distress



posted on Jan, 7 2012 @ 12:27 PM
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Originally posted by xXxinfidelxXx
reply to post by Aeons
 


Of those people though, how many actually believe what he has to say now, in your honest opinion? If they still believe him, than I fear we may be in a bit more trouble than I thought. Harper is one of the worst we've ever had. He makes Bush look like a philanthropist. McGuinty could be worse though, as I've yet to discover if certain decisions are coming from the federal or provincial level.


Most of them. Frankly, on these matters I usually side with conservatives even when I don't vote for them. I don't disagree on this, and indeed believe that Harper's greater but less politically correct concerns about Islamism are also correct.



posted on Jan, 7 2012 @ 12:28 PM
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reply to post by Echtelion
 


State news? The state news in Canada is distinctly far left socialist in flavour.



posted on Jan, 7 2012 @ 12:28 PM
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Originally posted by Corruption Exposed
The Jews in Iran seem to paint a much different picture than "your friend in Iran".

And i mentioned jews in Iran when? I was deploring their treatment of their OWN citizens. Try and keep up.


Originally posted by Corruption Exposed
I know people from Iran too, and they have told me some stories. Iran isn't the beacon of human rights, but Jews in Iran have just as many rights as all other Iranians.

Exactly. All i am saying is they are no better then us here in the West. Your slowly catching up!


Originally posted by Corruption Exposed
Persians are not a racist people as you have been duped into believing. They embrace Judaism, Iran even hosts many different conferences that revolve around Judaism.

Like this one?
en.wikipedia.org...

Or this quote and article from Wikipedia?
en.wikipedia.org...

Quote from Wikipedia entry
JewsWhile Jews are a recognized religious minority, allegations of official discrimination are frequent. The Government’s anti-Israel policies, along with a perception among radical Muslim elements that all Jewish citizens support Zionism and the State of Israel, create a threatening atmosphere for the small Jewish community. Jewish leaders reportedly are reluctant to draw attention to official mistreatment of their community due to fear of government reprisal.

Persecution and discrimination has increased among the government and society since the Revolution in 1979. On the eve of Passover 1998, 13 Iranian Jewish men were arrested on charges of espionage. The United States and Israel both demanded their release. Iran accused the men of spying for "world arrogance" (being the U.S.) and the "Zionist regime" (being Israel). The conviction is highly doubted by the rest of the world.[16]


And please oh wise one, answer me why a sane country would hold prayer rallies where thousands of brainwashed religious zealots would call for the death of Israel or America or Britian if they are so very enlightened and tolerant?



edit on 7-1-2012 by nightbringr because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 7 2012 @ 12:30 PM
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so you want us to bomb iran is that it.....oh you are such a saint....I see you have been busy here on ATS.....really want to get into it


Yes let's just sit back and let them get their nuclear bomb. I am sure this will create peace..in the middle-east.

What do you think Iran wil do with their nuclear weapons? Put them in a museum and charge a fee so that people can stroll and take a look at them?

AGAIN..what on Earth do you think will Iran do with the nuclear bomb...and related, what do you think will ISRAEL do once Iran gets the nuclear bomb?

Side note: This is NOT a matter of "wanting" to bomb Iran...but if you have a better solution be free to write it down.



edit on 7-1-2012 by flexy123 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 7 2012 @ 12:30 PM
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Originally posted by Aeons
reply to post by Echtelion
 


State news? The state news in Canada is distinctly far left socialist in flavour.


You obviously haven't read the Toronto Sun.
But by and large that is true. For now. Lord knows what King Stevie will do. We have no 1st Amendment here.



posted on Jan, 7 2012 @ 12:34 PM
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reply to post by Aeons
 


See, that's where you and I may disagree. Only a certain type of Islamism (Wahabi) is a threat to westerners, not the whole kit and caboodle. Most of it is just propaganda to legitimize our wars in the middle east. I happen to have quite a few muslim friends and none of them embraces violence the way we're led to believe they do. Yes, there are hardliners everywhere, but Islam is no more a threat to us than the Inuit(who also have some very strange ideas about fidelity).



posted on Jan, 7 2012 @ 12:35 PM
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Originally posted by xuenchen
I completely understand your friend and her family's dilemma and I can sympathize with your burdens as well.
(sounds like they are Jewish?)

No they were Persian. They simply protested the election and her bother caught the ire of the Basij when they ran wild through the streets to inspire terror and prevent further protests. He was knocked unconscious by a motorcycle riding Basij member and awoke in a compound. Thats when the real horror for him began.


Originally posted by xuenchen
My friend is Jewish and came to the U.S. in the 1970's. He is a cardiologist. He has returned to visit relatives several times with no problems. Last time was 5 years ago. The family travels here also.

I dont doubt that.

Originally posted by xuenchen
Many people have problems in the world.

Many world leaders and icons are not normal.

Many are psychopaths.

What is a "white room"?


The way i understand it is it is a sensory deprivation type of torture. The room is completely white with bright lights. You clothes, if they provide you any, are white. Its meant to break you down same as any other torture. Apparently, it was almost as bad as the beating, when he finally was set free, it took him days to regain his composure.



posted on Jan, 7 2012 @ 12:36 PM
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Originally posted by Aeons
Iran could just stop playing chicken with trade routes and unnecessary nuclear facilities.

I know that would be way too sensible.

Intrepid - there is plenty of capacity to nuclear in Canada, and there are nuclear weapons in Canada. I'm glad to show you that your concern is already a reality.


While you are correct, it must also be said that we don't really have development in terms of delivery systems for any nuclear weapons that we may have. Chances are that we either have developed a method aside from ICBMs (such as a simple bomb strapped onto a truck), or we are deployed with American missiles. The latter is more probable, and it would also mean that the US would have the final controls on our nuclear weapons, especially considering NORAD command and control is already American dominated.


flexy123-
There is still an ENORMOUS difference between a somewhat democratic government and a regime with religious extremists. If you can't see that nuclear bombs in the hands of religious extremists is dangerous...i can't help you.


Is Israel, with its zionist government, not an religious extremist government with nuclear weapons? Remember, zionism is fundamentalist Judaist views that rely heavily on furfilling prophecy.

What about the US? George Bush stated many times that he was on a "divine" mission from God, tasked with carrying out a "crusade" against "evil". His "crusade" killed over a million people and decimated Iraq. The end result was economically and, in terms of death and pestilence, much worse than using a nuclear weapon- the only difference is that people weren't as shocked because they didn't see the mushroom cloud on their TV screens.



posted on Jan, 7 2012 @ 12:36 PM
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so look for a common theme....AGENDA with this guy...he is no advocate of moral imperative...no saint...love Iran huh..dude I would pay you If I was Israel...you are better than one of their lobbyist....you sure they don't at least say thank you to you..



Originally posted by nightbringr

Originally posted by g146541
reply to post by nightbringr
 


All of that and no truths were harmed in the making of that post!
I'm just saying, is all.


Your right about one thing. The jews have been the most persecuted peoples on the face of the earth to still exist. I personally applaud their tenacity and will to live. Many other races have been extinguished facing half the resistance they have.

So yeah, while you want to put them in ovens (or at least as you have admitted believe they deserve nothing less), i commend their drive. Its no wonder they are some of the most successful people on earth. If they werent they would have been lost centuries ago.


so poor Israel will play the holocaust card and get billions of my taxes because they were somehow MORE persecuted than another group
------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by nightbringr

Originally posted by HelloJCneedsomehelp

This has been building up for sometime. As TPTB start to lose because the people are waking up they start a war have a FF to take everyone's eyes the other way. Same story different date.


Wrong.

TPTB (if there is any such unified group, i doubt it), certainly know that a new war will cause mass protests and perhaps riots. There needs to be a justification, simply going in and bombing Iran on suspicion of making a bomb will drive those already inclined to protest (OWSers) and those sitting on the fence to protest again in earnest.


yes....there are NO PTB...we are all here cuz we are insane...nice way to make us feel welcome
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by nightbringr

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to NIghtbringer


Yes, I know that. I knew back in the early 80's that the Soviets had all these nuclear shelters for it's civilians while the US had just a few here and there. Today the US has D.U.M.B. shelters and not for the civilians....
so if the whole Cold War is over and communism is dead, and Russia is friends with Iran, N Korea, and China, then why is Russia so worried about revamping its nuclear civil defense? Do you mean to tell me they are afraid of some dirty suitcase devices? That would be laughable.


No............because the world is still filled with nuclear weapons.

It would be hopelessly naive to think simply because the cold war is over everyone is going to simply play nice forever. Why do you think the USA spends massively on their war machine even though the cold war is over?


cold war boogey man huh....old..now is the world a threat
--------------------------------------------


Originally posted by nightbringr

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus

Why Is Russia Building 5000 More Nuclear Bomb Shelters In Moscow By The End Of 2012?
Russia certainly seems to be in a hurry to prepare for something. RT is reporting that 5,000 new nuclear bomb shelters will be constructed in the city of Moscow by the end of 2012. Russian authorities believe that these new shelters are urgently needed because the current nuclear bomb shelters will only hold approximately half the population and are quite outdated. In addition, there are apparently very few nuclear bomb shelters for those living outside the city center at this point. Officials want virtually the entire population of Moscow to be able to reach a bomb shelter within a matter of minutes. But in this era when the "Cold War" is supposed to be over, why are 5000 nuclear bomb shelters such an urgent necessity?



Russia has always had a strong civil defense program, something the US has completely neglected. Moscow, with its city based ABM system would be the most heavily targetted area in the world come time for the bombs to fly. Older defense doctrine documents show the USA would target Moscow with no less than 100 warheads. They are simply preparing defense. Hell, id feel more secure if my country had such a plan in place.


you feel safe with nukes everywhere....O...K......crazy much
---------------------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by nightbringr

Originally posted by masterp
Isn't Hamas simply defending its people and land? does Hamas do unjustified actions?


Yes, they do.

Living in peace is impossible for them so they perpetuate a state of war and use their own people as pawns.

love iran huh..



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