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Iran wants to use nuclear weapon, Harper says

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posted on Jan, 7 2012 @ 01:33 PM
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reply to post by nightbringr
 


I understand that you, yourself may not be promoting that course of action, but you speak in the language of war. When you repeat their rationalitzations for attacking, you aid their efforts. Propaganda is like a virus. If you let it get to far into the body, it causes mayhem. I am not against you personally, just what you said in that post. That's what the American gov has been trying to use as rationalisation for attacking for years.




posted on Jan, 7 2012 @ 01:57 PM
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Originally posted by Aeons
Israel is a tiny mote of dust in the Arabs' eyes, that only proves how little they want to get along with anyone.

They can be a majority over a swath Earth spanning a large amount of resources....and a speck of dust moves them to World Killing stupidity on a daily basis.




edit on 2012/1/7 by Aeons because: (no reason given)



WHAT IF

Iran has a secret pact with a secret organization ?

What IF that secret organization is itching to blow up a whole city somewhere ?

There are a whole lot of nukes "missing" from the old Soviet Union.

Hmmmm

Soviet Nukes Missing


Some 200 Soviet-era nuclear warheads have disappeared, the head of the Ukrainian Communist Party charges.
According to Pravda.ru, Pyotr Simonenko said that there were originally 2400 nuclear warheads in Ukraine, although only 2200 can be accounted for. Nobody, he said, has any idea where the other 200 deadly warheads have gone.

"Out of 2,400 nuclear warheads which were on Ukrainian territory, the withdrawal of only 2,200 warheads has been verified. The fate of the remaining 200 warheads is unknown," Simonenko told Pravda.ru.


All Nations Please use Extreme Caution with IRAN



edit on Jan-07-2012 by xuenchen because:




posted on Jan, 7 2012 @ 02:01 PM
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reply to post by xuenchen
 


Are you suggesting Russia is funding and equipping Iranian terror directed at the West?

Russia can't get Iran to stop funding and equipping terror in their own borders.



posted on Jan, 7 2012 @ 02:05 PM
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I’m not defending Iran or its human rights record. But in my opinion Iran surely knows full well that use of a nuclear weapon of any kind against any actor would result in no benefit for them. (Unless one buys into the notion that they are such a theocracy that the destruction of Israel is more important to them than self-preservation.) I just don't see it personally. No matter what the outcome of a direct military confrontation with Iran, it would be to their ultimate detriment. They know this in my opinion. They aren't stupid. They want to improve their standing in the world both militarily and economically, not worsen it. No, it seems much more likely to me that their goal is the development of a nuclear deterrent, not to put it to use.

Likewise, assuming that assessment is correct of course, I doubt the West is fool enough to think otherwise. Following that logic, if they push for a confrontation it must be for other reasons. Some would argue oil as they did with Iraq, but in my opinion no great oil benefit has come to the West through the lengthy occupation and eventual handover in Iraq. To be sure, certain individual corporate entities and individuals benefitted handsomely, and I'm sure that wasn't lost on the architects of the war. But oil, I just don't see it personally. Following that logic, and given the inherent and exponentially higher challenges involved in a direct occupation of Iran, I doubt that's the goal there either.

So, with all of that said, if it comes to war, what am I to conclude the reason for it would be? If it isn't oil, and it isn't because Iran intends to use any nuclear capability it may develop, the only reason I can think of is nuclear weapons containment. I have long wondered if perhaps in the wake of 9-11 a threat assessment somewhere of which we have never been made aware might have concluded that the risk of any additional countries anywhere in the ME at all acquiring nuclear weapons, is unacceptably high. Not because they might use them themselves, but because of the risk of a Taliban-like hardline uprising (as we learned in Iraq, Saddam's brutality notwithstanding, there are forces that can be even more destabilizing than strongman despots) taking possessing of such weapons and then either selling or passing them to organizations that would use them. (Or using them themselves.)

Following that logic (I know I'm already several steps out on a speculative branch now, but I'm just thinking,) they may have concluded that Iran or anyone else in that neighborhood acquiring nuclear weapons that isn't a direct ally might open an irreversible pandora's box of arms races, proliferation, and - eventually, inevitably - nuclear terrorism. I'm not saying that's actually what happened or the reason we appear to be headed down a path of confrontation. But if they did conclude that, and they truly believe it, can there be any doubt that they would be compelled to act on it before such actors acquire the bomb?

I hope not. Because that kind of "automatic thinking" as I call it, has in the past led to some very unpleasant moments in history in my opinion. Once locked into a doctrine, it can be difficult for governments to turn back. So if we have on one side an Iranian regime locked into the doctrine of developing a deterrent, and on the other an American (or combined Western) regime locked into a doctrine of zero tollerance for nuclear weapons acquisition by any actor in the region... well, the place the two collide could be very grim.



posted on Jan, 7 2012 @ 02:11 PM
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Originally posted by Aeons
reply to post by xuenchen
 


Are you suggesting Russia is funding and equipping Iranian terror directed at the West?

Russia can't get Iran to stop funding and equipping terror in their own borders.


NO.

(but I suppose it's possible now that you mention it)

I am warning of rouge organizations that may very well posses old Soviet nukes.

What's this about terror at Russia's borders ?

Hmmm.

Proceed with Caution when dealing with Iran



posted on Jan, 7 2012 @ 02:42 PM
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reply to post by piett
 


Those assertions sound like they are quite consistent with the oligarchy's goals to genocidally murder all but 200 million of the planet's population.

Certainly Iran's leader has said things about wiping Israel off the map etc. Evidently he's volunteering all Jews to be amongst those genocidally murdered by the oligarchy.

And, it's only logical that they'd agree with you about us over 40 "useless eaters" in Kissinger's terms, should go on the head chopping block/bioengineered plague/ WWIII extermination block ASAP.

One of the things I most treasured about the Chinese culture when living there. They still had a deeply engrained respect for the aged.

Regardless of the arrogance of youth, some thing are only learned by

YEARS OF EXPERIENCE.

Ahhhh welll . . . the oligarchy's "useful idiots" will also be amongst the early ones slated for the death camps--including all the youthful cheerleaders. They know they are too untrustworthy and uninformed, unaware to dare to try and build a new order with them.

They want only the mass schooled young minds without any influence from parents or family . . . the carefully selected eugenic approved babies born from forced matches and no family involved whatsoever.

It's fascinating that they are using Islam, Iran et al to destroy the old order . . . using TWISTED FAMILY & TWISTED RELIGION to destroy family and all other religions. Interesting script.

Harper must be a designated spokesman in this mess of puzzle pieces. I don't think they let folks at his level spout off without a teleprompter or some such controls firmly in place.



posted on Jan, 7 2012 @ 02:54 PM
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Harper is a toad, and most of his staff seem to be as well. Look at McKay, this idiot should be thrown out of office for all the waste and trips that we taxpayers have to pay for, let alone leaving important documents at an ex girlfriend's who has Mafia ties...but I digress...Harper is nothing but sucking up to that idiot ObamSoterro.The only reason Harper is in office is because of those no-brain morons from southern Ontario who swallow whatever garbage the media spins their way, even Ontario's premier Dalton McGuilty spends more time in Toronto than anywhere near his home riding,Ottawa,and look what is happening to Ontario, we are damn near going into bankruptcy. Our politicians have no balls up here. IMO Trudeau had the balls to say no, hell we even stopped our own terrorist attack,FLQ, without much effort.We as Canadians have to say enough is enough, take back our country and quit sucking up to TPTB.



posted on Jan, 7 2012 @ 03:03 PM
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reply to post by BrianOrion
 




When Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was questioned in 2006... according to the source YOU provided, he evaded the question regarding 'wiping Israel off the map' and refused to answer... he claimed that Palestine should be able to determine their own future... do you not find it incredible that NO Islamic state has yet to offer the 5 million or so displaced people permanent refugee status?


The business about so many defending Ahmadinejad's quote is disingenuous, imho.

The founding documents of Islam speak of

rocks crying out 'Here's a Jew hiding behind me--get him and kill him.'

Ahmadinejad is a fierce defender of that religion and those founding docs. To claim he doesn't believe every Jew should be exterminated is . . . unaware, uninformed, clueless, imho.



posted on Jan, 7 2012 @ 03:08 PM
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reply to post by DaarkSyde2012
 


Yeah, they're running Ontario into the ground.

Not only are they horrible at their job, but they're annoying as hell too


The faces Mckay and Harper make are just laughable at times.






posted on Jan, 7 2012 @ 07:28 PM
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Jeez,people have been saying Iran wants to use nukes for a long time now.

I don't think nukes are a good idea,but if Iran wants nukes to protect it self(or destroy) then that's their business

It aint a one way street..



posted on Jan, 7 2012 @ 11:10 PM
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Originally posted by xXxinfidelxXx
reply to post by Aeons
 


See, that's where you and I may disagree. Only a certain type of Islamism (Wahabi) is a threat to westerners, not the whole kit and caboodle. Most of it is just propaganda to legitimize our wars in the middle east. I happen to have quite a few muslim friends and none of them embraces violence the way we're led to believe they do. Yes, there are hardliners everywhere, but Islam is no more a threat to us than the Inuit(who also have some very strange ideas about fidelity).


Blimey... do you really believe that Islam is not a threat to the 'West?'

I, for one, am totally flabbergasted by your statement...



posted on Jan, 8 2012 @ 02:27 AM
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Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
reply to post by SplitInfinity
 


The arab dictators of their respective islamic republics liked to use the palestinian crisis as canon fodder for domestic solidarity. There is no denying this fact, but israel with its gross incompetance has not been helping its own cause at all.

Like I said, it takes two to tango. Israel should have a)kicked out all of the PLO and Hamas or b)declared israel as a secular nation and people of all religious denomination welcome with full israeli citizenship. They did neither and await nato/un to solve everything for them. The world is getting tired of hearing the same stuff again and again and fears a potential big conflict in the future.

Iran is the new iraq, then syria, then hezbollah from lebanon, etc. Clearly the arabs think they are entitled to the entire middle east because christians and jews lost the holy land during the crusades. No one has made much fuss about that till 1947 when the jews came back to reclaim their promised land under the stated goal of zionism. They should have settled any territorial dispute back in the sixties during the seven day war but instead listened to the UN dictate the peace terms. They acted like cowards back then and continue to act like cowards today. I don't think it is entirely their fault though, as people high up are pulling the world war 3 strings.


Look...reguardless of all these issues...if it were not for the United States...the whole region would be speeking German or Russian right now. The U.S. hs tried it's best to get all parties to make peace but one party or another screws things up. The U.S. patence wore out after 9/11.

The entire Middle East can thank their lucky stars than only Afghanistan and Iraq were invaded and even in both of these cases...this was not all out war. Many entire IRAQI divisions defied their leadership and sent negociators to U.S. Military groups in the field. This prevented much blood shed as Iraqs Generals knew they had no chance and after U.S. planes dropped leaflets assuring good treatment if they surrendered...whole Iraqi Divisions gave up.

There was another plan on the table after 9/11 that was rejected....and this plan called for the use of very secret and unconventional weapons to end the strife in the Middle East once and for all. Iran was included on this list. It was deemed an over response and was shelved.

So even though the U.S. wants a long lasting peace in the region...there is just so much the U.S. will bear.
Split Infinity



posted on Jan, 8 2012 @ 02:57 AM
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Originally posted by SplitInfinity
Look...reguardless of all these issues...if it were not for the United States...the whole region would be speeking German or Russian right now.


There are those who see the US as saviors, and there are those who see them as imperialists. It all depends on what spectrum of the class war you belong to.



posted on Jan, 8 2012 @ 03:15 AM
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reply to post by BrianOrion
 


You can be flabbergasted all you want but that does not make it any less true. If you wanna believe the propaganda, than, I guess it is your right to do so. I, however, see that muslims are the one who got the short end of the stick, not us. They have constantly been subverted and demonized. The only reason why they don't like us is because we've very much earned that opinion by bombing them into oblivion and propping up dictators. We in the west are far worse than they could ever be. Just be glad you were born over on this side of the pond, so you don't have to see the results of our actions over there.



posted on Jan, 8 2012 @ 03:29 AM
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Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
Look...reguardless of all these issues...if it were not for the United States...the whole region would be speeking German or Russian right now.


There are those who see the US as saviors, and there are those who see them as imperialists. It all depends on what spectrum of the class war you belong to.


DIMITRI! So....are your roots Russian or somewhere else?

As far as class...I have worked very hard to be where I am now and although I have two jobs that pay extremely well...I always get sucked into doing the third job. I do this third job for the good of the world as far as I view it.

I much to talk to you about but first...tell me your beginnings. Split Infinity



posted on Jan, 8 2012 @ 05:05 AM
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Originally posted by BrianOrion

Originally posted by xXxinfidelxXx
reply to post by Aeons
 


See, that's where you and I may disagree. Only a certain type of Islamism (Wahabi) is a threat to westerners, not the whole kit and caboodle. Most of it is just propaganda to legitimize our wars in the middle east. I happen to have quite a few muslim friends and none of them embraces violence the way we're led to believe they do. Yes, there are hardliners everywhere, but Islam is no more a threat to us than the Inuit(who also have some very strange ideas about fidelity).


Blimey... do you really believe that Islam is not a threat to the 'West?'

I, for one, am totally flabbergasted by your statement...


And why is Islam a threat to the west? You don't think it has anything to do with us bombing them for the last twenty years? You don't think it has any6thing to do with the US and Israel overthrowing governments and installing brutal dictators? People talk about how many Americans Iran has killed but never mention how many Iranians died under our puppet. If I were Islam I would be pissed too.



posted on Jan, 8 2012 @ 05:07 AM
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reply to post by buster2010
 


You confuse religion with a goverment that uses religion to whip up hatred. Split Infinity



posted on Jan, 8 2012 @ 05:15 AM
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Originally posted by SplitInfinity

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
Look...reguardless of all these issues...if it were not for the United States...the whole region would be speeking German or Russian right now.


There are those who see the US as saviors, and there are those who see them as imperialists. It all depends on what spectrum of the class war you belong to.


DIMITRI! So....are your roots Russian or somewhere else?

As far as class...I have worked very hard to be where I am now and although I have two jobs that pay extremely well...I always get sucked into doing the third job. I do this third job for the good of the world as far as I view it.

I much to talk to you about but first...tell me your beginnings. Split Infinity


He does have a good point. Those that see the US as saviors are the ones that will profit from this Iran is the 2nd largest producers of natural gas and the third largest of oil in the world. There is a lot of money to be made here. The ones who will see the US as imperialists is the ones who will die in this war namely the middle class and the poor. All they will get out of it is dead relatives and debt from paying for the war.



posted on Jan, 8 2012 @ 05:31 AM
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reply to post by buster2010
 


I highly doubt that there will be a war. The Iranians can't be that stupid...they depend on the straight to deliver their oil as well. These are all words.

Now if the build a NUKE...then all bets are off. Split Infinity



posted on Jan, 8 2012 @ 06:02 AM
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Originally posted by BrianOrion

Originally posted by xXxinfidelxXx
reply to post by Aeons
 


See, that's where you and I may disagree. Only a certain type of Islamism (Wahabi) is a threat to westerners, not the whole kit and caboodle. Most of it is just propaganda to legitimize our wars in the middle east. I happen to have quite a few muslim friends and none of them embraces violence the way we're led to believe they do. Yes, there are hardliners everywhere, but Islam is no more a threat to us than the Inuit(who also have some very strange ideas about fidelity).


Blimey... do you really believe that Islam is not a threat to the 'West?'

I, for one, am totally flabbergasted by your statement...


You think that the ignorance in regard to the danger of Islam to the west is uncommon on ats?



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