Iran wants to use nuclear weapon, Harper says, page 15
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reply posted on 8-1-2012 @ 11:49 AM by nightbringr
Originally posted by xXxinfidelxXx
reply to post by nightbringr


I understand that you, yourself may not be promoting that course of action, but you speak in the language of war. When you repeat their rationalitzations for attacking, you aid their efforts. Propaganda is like a virus. If you let it get to far into the body, it causes mayhem. I am not against you personally, just what you said in that post. That's what the American gov has been trying to use as rationalisation for attacking for years.


Not sure why calling out a government on their human rights record is speaking in "the language of war" as you put it.

Are we supposed to turn a blind eye when a foreign government hangs innocent in the streets for the sake of political correctness? Are we no longer allowed to call a spade a spade? I'm sorry, but I refuse. When I see evil in the world, I will point my finger, and not only when it occurs here in the West.

If that's war mongering to you, fine. To me it's simply pointing out the obvious. And if it was done here in the west, I would denounce it just as loudly. You people and your dangerous political correctness have gone too far. Your afraid to confront evil for fear of offending somebody, anybody.

edit on 8-1-2012 by nightbringr because: (no reason given)



reply posted on 8-1-2012 @ 06:00 PM by BrianOrion
Originally posted by xXxinfidelxXx
reply to post by BrianOrion


You can be flabbergasted all you want but that does not make it any less true. If you wanna believe the propaganda, than, I guess it is your right to do so. I, however, see that muslims are the one who got the short end of the stick, not us. They have constantly been subverted and demonized. The only reason why they don't like us is because we've very much earned that opinion by bombing them into oblivion and propping up dictators. We in the west are far worse than they could ever be. Just be glad you were born over on this side of the pond, so you don't have to see the results of our actions over there.


Ok... first of all... I am from the UK... not Canada or the USA... secondly, I have studied History and am more than aware of what 'Islam' caused it's followers to believe and how many MILLIONS of people were killed in their wars in order for them to make certain countries 'Islamic'...

Next, if the press actually reported how many people were abused every year by 'Islamic' people, including 'honour killings', female genital mutilation, acid attacks, rapes and beatings, then you may well change your opinion....

I do also have Muslim friends and acquaintances and have seen that not all Muslims behave in such ways. However, every Islamic country has MAJOR problems with regards the aforementioned abuses...

I have also read literature that permits beating and abuse of women, abuse of children and behaviour that I am sure any educated person would find abhorrent.... all written by Islamic scholars or leaders...

As far as I am concerned, Islam is a threat due to the high birth rates that many Muslim families have (much higher than 'Western' families) and many of these people are then raised to dislike 'Westerners' and fight anybody who criticises their religion. I have experience of this first hand.

So yes, I find it extraordinary when someone ignorantly (IMO) claims that Islam is of no threat to the 'West'...


reply posted on 8-1-2012 @ 06:10 PM by BrianOrion
Originally posted by steveknows
Originally posted by BrianOrion
Originally posted by xXxinfidelxXx
reply to post by Aeons


See, that's where you and I may disagree. Only a certain type of Islamism (Wahabi) is a threat to westerners, not the whole kit and caboodle. Most of it is just propaganda to legitimize our wars in the middle east. I happen to have quite a few muslim friends and none of them embraces violence the way we're led to believe they do. Yes, there are hardliners everywhere, but Islam is no more a threat to us than the Inuit(who also have some very strange ideas about fidelity).


Blimey... do you really believe that Islam is not a threat to the 'West?'

I, for one, am totally flabbergasted by your statement...


You think that the ignorance in regard to the danger of Islam to the west is uncommon on ats?


I am shocked, yes... My friend introduced me to ATS last year and most of what I have read since then has been of a reasonably intellectual level... the fact that there are people on here with no idea regarding what Islam is or how it was born/developed really shocks me... maybe they just want to be recognised as being in the PC brigade and fear criticism if they state the truth?



reply posted on 8-1-2012 @ 06:12 PM by BrianOrion
Originally posted by BO XIAN
reply to post by BrianOrion



When Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was questioned in 2006... according to the source YOU provided, he evaded the question regarding 'wiping Israel off the map' and refused to answer... he claimed that Palestine should be able to determine their own future... do you not find it incredible that NO Islamic state has yet to offer the 5 million or so displaced people permanent refugee status?


The business about so many defending Ahmadinejad's quote is disingenuous, imho.

The founding documents of Islam speak of

rocks crying out 'Here's a Jew hiding behind me--get him and kill him.'

Ahmadinejad is a fierce defender of that religion and those founding docs. To claim he doesn't believe every Jew should be exterminated is . . . unaware, uninformed, clueless, imho.


I must say that I am shocked that some people defend Ahmadinejad and his opinion... yet openly criticise the USA or the UK or Israel... strange times indeed...


reply posted on 8-1-2012 @ 06:28 PM by BrianOrion
Originally posted by buster2010
Originally posted by BrianOrion
Originally posted by xXxinfidelxXx
reply to post by Aeons


See, that's where you and I may disagree. Only a certain type of Islamism (Wahabi) is a threat to westerners, not the whole kit and caboodle. Most of it is just propaganda to legitimize our wars in the middle east. I happen to have quite a few muslim friends and none of them embraces violence the way we're led to believe they do. Yes, there are hardliners everywhere, but Islam is no more a threat to us than the Inuit(who also have some very strange ideas about fidelity).


Blimey... do you really believe that Islam is not a threat to the 'West?'

I, for one, am totally flabbergasted by your statement...


And why is Islam a threat to the west? You don't think it has anything to do with us bombing them for the last twenty years? You don't think it has any6thing to do with the US and Israel overthrowing governments and installing brutal dictators? People talk about how many Americans Iran has killed but never mention how many Iranians died under our puppet. If I were Islam I would be pissed too.


I have studied History and am more than aware of what 'Islam' caused it's followers to believe and how many MILLIONS of people were killed in their wars in order for them to make certain countries 'Islamic'...

Next, if the press actually reported how many people were abused every year by 'Islamic' people, including 'honour killings', female genital mutilation, acid attacks, rapes and beatings, then you may well change your opinion....

I do also have Muslim friends and acquaintances and have seen that not all Muslims behave in such ways. However, every Islamic country has MAJOR problems with regards the aforementioned abuses...

I have also read literature that permits beating and abuse of women, abuse of children and behaviour that I am sure any educated person would find abhorrent.... all written by Islamic scholars or leaders...

As far as I am concerned, Islam is a threat due to the high birth rates that many Muslim families have (much higher than 'Western' families) and many of these people are then raised to dislike 'Westerners' and fight anybody who criticises their religion. I have experience of this first hand.

So yes, I find it extraordinary when someone ignorantly (IMO) claims that Islam is of no threat to the 'West'...

And, please may I ask... when you say 'we' have been bombing them for 20 years... who is 'we?' ... for I am sure that I have NEVER bombed ANYBODY... do you really think that the military campaigns in Iraq/Afghanistan are monstrous? I have friends and family in the UK Forces who have done tours in these countries and believe me, the forces over there could have levelled both countries 10 times over if they had been ordered to... so why haven't they? Again, believe it or not, there are many indigenous people in these countries that are GRATEFUL for the 'West's' intervention... do you blame the USA and the UK for the CENTURIES of abuse that people have suffered in this region?


reply posted on 8-1-2012 @ 06:31 PM by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
Originally posted by SplitInfinity
Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
Originally posted by SplitInfinity
Look...reguardless of all these issues...if it were not for the United States...the whole region would be speeking German or Russian right now.


There are those who see the US as saviors, and there are those who see them as imperialists. It all depends on what spectrum of the class war you belong to.


DIMITRI! So....are your roots Russian or somewhere else?

As far as class...I have worked very hard to be where I am now and although I have two jobs that pay extremely well...I always get sucked into doing the third job. I do this third job for the good of the world as far as I view it.

I much to talk to you about but first...tell me your beginnings. Split Infinity


My beginnings?

Aeons ago, in time immemorial, light was created from darkness. The birth of the second dimension lead to the formation of the third dimension as we know it: matter and space.

At some point, cosmic supernovae produced vast amounts of refined elements that eventually differentiated into the planet that we now call Earth.

Cyanobacteria than began to form, and a billion years later Earth acquired an oxygen-based atmosphere. Life evolved into multi-cellular beings until humans came into the picture.

At some point during the late 1980s, the atoms that would become the chromosomes were ingested by he who would be my father.

As a young sperm cell, I was one of billions... yet I was the sole survivor in the journey to become something more than what I was.

Then I was born as a human in the year that the Soviet Union faltered into collapse, and I grew up in a world of economic hegemony with the American globalpower at the helm.

Regardless of the fact that I was only some no-name from a small British Columbian forest village, I have never doubted for a moment my role as a human being residing in a vast universe.

Does that answer your question?


reply posted on 10-1-2012 @ 12:25 AM by SplitInfinity
Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
Originally posted by SplitInfinity
Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
Originally posted by SplitInfinity
Look...reguardless of all these issues...if it were not for the United States...the whole region would be speeking German or Russian right now.


There are those who see the US as saviors, and there are those who see them as imperialists. It all depends on what spectrum of the class war you belong to.


DIMITRI! So....are your roots Russian or somewhere else?

As far as class...I have worked very hard to be where I am now and although I have two jobs that pay extremely well...I always get sucked into doing the third job. I do this third job for the good of the world as far as I view it.

I much to talk to you about but first...tell me your beginnings. Split Infinity


My beginnings?

Aeons ago, in time immemorial, light was created from darkness. The birth of the second dimension lead to the formation of the third dimension as we know it: matter and space.

At some point, cosmic supernovae produced vast amounts of refined elements that eventually differentiated into the planet that we now call Earth.

Cyanobacteria than began to form, and a billion years later Earth acquired an oxygen-based atmosphere. Life evolved into multi-cellular beings until humans came into the picture.

At some point during the late 1980s, the atoms that would become the chromosomes were ingested by he who would be my father.

As a young sperm cell, I was one of billions... yet I was the sole survivor in the journey to become something more than what I was.

Then I was born as a human in the year that the Soviet Union faltered into collapse, and I grew up in a world of economic hegemony with the American globalpower at the helm.

Regardless of the fact that I was only some no-name from a small British Columbian forest village, I have never doubted for a moment my role as a human being residing in a vast universe.

Does that answer your question?


Actually it DOES! You have a BRAIN! How refreshing! So when you left....what part of the former CCCP?....did you do so ala the famous words of Russian American Author....ISSAC ASIMOV...as he was born in the Soviet Union...much to his great surprise...but moved quickly to rectify the situation! LOL!

The reason I asked was in the hopes...if you were of a specific job and nature....we could trade...Cat and Mouse Stories from the 80's....but I can see you were too young for that lind of FUN! LOL!

I still on occasion get a call from one of these people who has developed into a friend although we are living in different U.S. states. He likes chess and we talk Global Isssues. I asked him a while back about how pissed I was that Russia sold NUKE tech. to Iran although I knew they needed the money....he was pissed off too.

He said that this sale was going to come back and bite Russia in the ASS one day as he knew there was NO WAY the Iranians wanted this Reactor tech for any other use than to make BOMBS. He talked about many unreported skirmishes in Russia and surrounding states over rising Radical Islamists and in this POST COLD WAR world....he found THAT to be much greater a threat than any unlikely U.S./Russian War possibilities which he aproximated as Zero Chance.

He is not a big fan of Putin as he calls him a former KGB Thug that is accumulating a large pile of money for himself as well as other former KGB.

This person is a VERY smart and openly honest man....a person always knew where they stood with him as in his words...Understanding and Communication Prevents Wars. He is definitly right. Split Infinity


reply posted on 10-1-2012 @ 02:13 AM by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
reply to post by SplitInfinity


I personally have nothing to do with Russia. I am pure Canadian. My username on here is nothing more than an internet alias.

As for Russia selling Iran nuclear technology? Ukraine was initially supposed to build nuclear power plants for Iran but that deal ended with the collapse of the USSR, and Russia eventually took over. And it really has little to do with money; it's geostrategy. The more Russia invests in Iran, the less chance the US will take in invading yet another nation in the contended middle-asia region (and Iran happens to border Russia too).


reply posted on 10-1-2012 @ 08:58 PM by SplitInfinity
Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
reply to post by SplitInfinity


I personally have nothing to do with Russia. I am pure Canadian. My username on here is nothing more than an internet alias.

As for Russia selling Iran nuclear technology? Ukraine was initially supposed to build nuclear power plants for Iran but that deal ended with the collapse of the USSR, and Russia eventually took over. And it really has little to do with money; it's geostrategy. The more Russia invests in Iran, the less chance the US will take in invading yet another nation in the contended middle-asia region (and Iran happens to border Russia too).


I agree with your acessment in that this was one of the reasons...but cash played a big part. As for the concept that the U.S. would not attack a Nuclear state...that possition has changed with the emergence of very High Tech. Military capabilities. Even if Iran had a Hundred Nuclear bombs and perhaps a few missles to tip with a nuke....this is not a deterent anymore to prevent any U.S. Military action....if anything...it just makes the chances for this more likely. Canadian Eh!? What is your favorite Hocky team? I am a die hard Bruins fan and am tickled pink right now! LOL! Split Infinity


reply posted on 12-1-2012 @ 10:03 PM by SplitInfinity
Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
Originally posted by SplitInfinity
I agree with your acessment in that this was one of the reasons...but cash played a big part. As for the concept that the U.S. would not attack a Nuclear state...that possition has changed with the emergence of very High Tech. Military capabilities. Even if Iran had a Hundred Nuclear bombs and perhaps a few missles to tip with a nuke....this is not a deterent anymore to prevent any U.S. Military action....if anything...it just makes the chances for this more likely. Canadian Eh!? What is your favorite Hocky team? I am a die hard Bruins fan and am tickled pink right now! LOL! Split Infinity


Um, yeah, nuclear weapons are in fact a major deterrant force against invasion. The deterrant factor with Iran would be multiplied if they did actually have nuclear weapons, because most supporters of invading Iran already believe that Iran is dangerous enough to use them in an actual war. This is a damn good reason why the US isn't invading North Korea right now.


Your statement seems entirely logical. One would think so right? Why would the U.S. want to invade a country that has a nuclear deterence?

The actual answer is...the U.S. does not want certain countries in possesion of Nuclear weapons and the fact that Iran signed the NPR Treaty and will not allow inspectors in...is a fairly good sign that they are trying to build a bomb. Yet having a bunch of very old tech. gravity droped nukes and even a few missles that at this time are too small to house the nuke or vice versa...is no longer a deterent.

The U.S. has been working secretly for over 50 years on tech. to counter Nuclear bombs and missles. Some of this tech. has just...within a matter of a few months ago...been made public...WHY...I HAVE NO IDEA? But it is true.

A county having Nukes is not as much of an issue as a country wanting to USE a nuke or sell one...THIS is the problem with Iran. As far as N. Korea...China has their number and Chinas ties to the U.S. are a hell of alot more important to China than it's relationship to the North. Split Infinity


reply posted on 13-1-2012 @ 06:18 PM by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
Originally posted by SplitInfinity
Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
Originally posted by SplitInfinity
I agree with your acessment in that this was one of the reasons...but cash played a big part. As for the concept that the U.S. would not attack a Nuclear state...that possition has changed with the emergence of very High Tech. Military capabilities. Even if Iran had a Hundred Nuclear bombs and perhaps a few missles to tip with a nuke....this is not a deterent anymore to prevent any U.S. Military action....if anything...it just makes the chances for this more likely. Canadian Eh!? What is your favorite Hocky team? I am a die hard Bruins fan and am tickled pink right now! LOL! Split Infinity


Um, yeah, nuclear weapons are in fact a major deterrant force against invasion. The deterrant factor with Iran would be multiplied if they did actually have nuclear weapons, because most supporters of invading Iran already believe that Iran is dangerous enough to use them in an actual war. This is a damn good reason why the US isn't invading North Korea right now.


Your statement seems entirely logical. One would think so right? Why would the U.S. want to invade a country that has a nuclear deterence?

The actual answer is...the U.S. does not want certain countries in possesion of Nuclear weapons and the fact that Iran signed the NPR Treaty and will not allow inspectors in...is a fairly good sign that they are trying to build a bomb. Yet having a bunch of very old tech. gravity droped nukes and even a few missles that at this time are too small to house the nuke or vice versa...is no longer a deterent.

The U.S. has been working secretly for over 50 years on tech. to counter Nuclear bombs and missles. Some of this tech. has just...within a matter of a few months ago...been made public...WHY...I HAVE NO IDEA? But it is true.

A county having Nukes is not as much of an issue as a country wanting to USE a nuke or sell one...THIS is the problem with Iran. As far as N. Korea...China has their number and Chinas ties to the U.S. are a hell of alot more important to China than it's relationship to the North. Split Infinity


Iran doesn't allow inspectors in? That's news to me.

And obviously if Iran built a nuclear warhead and loaded it onto a missile, it would be an older method of deployment. It would still have a chance for success because counter-missile systems are nowhere near capable as people like to believe, especially when they need to be in proximity to the missile launch.

The best nuclear deterrant for a developing nuclear weapons program is to produce nukes than can be easily and stealthy transported, or perhaps even a method to easily assemble a nuclear bomb at the target destination. The only way to stop this is by completely cutting off borders, but there's always a way to get into any country.

And in my opinion, if Iran had to ever use nukes, their most viable targets would be enemy bases in the region surrounding it, like American air and naval bases. This shorter range increases the methods of delivery to include cruise missiles or even artillery shells.
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