Are the stories of 911 "jumpers" true?

Originally posted by septic

Originally posted by pavil
reply to post by septic

 

I was not there, but I did see the PBS ( I think) special on it. It followed the French Film crew that videoed the first plane strike to the WTC with the Fire Truck it was with. The crew made it into the Lobby of one of the towers. You could hear "thuds" hitting the top of the Lobby and the look on the fireman's faces left no doubt in my mind that they thought they were bodies impacting from jumpers. I still remember how the fireman looked at each other when they heard those sounds........really bad foreboding.

As I've said before, Leslie Raphael proved the entire film you refer to is pure propaganda, and he names names.

From page two:

Originally posted by septic

Yeah, the "thumps" are my point. The sound drums up that gut-wrenching horror. From Leslie Raphael:

26. Yet another staged scene : top left (43:32), Pfeifer giving a sly look to his left, as if waiting for a prompt, his aide Ed Fahey on the right of the picture, fiddling with something out of shot, and between them in the centre, Mike Hurley, Director of Fire Safety at the WTC, staring at something in the distance (the shot opens with a close-up of him doing it, then widens out). Top right (43:33), Pfeifer has apparently been told to look down at his radio — as Fahey is already doing, perhaps. Bottom left (43:33), the start of their head movement as they allegedly react to the crash of someone hitting the ground outside the building, after falling or jumping from the upper floors. Bottom right (43:33), their final position — looking in three different directions — different from each other (compare picture 8b, another fake reaction shot), and different from where each was looking in the first frame — before the camera swings left (west) towards the front of the building. Hurley switches from east to west, Pfeifer from downwards to south-westwards and Fahey from down to south-eastwards.

Something like 200 people were killed that way at the North Tower between 8.46 and 10.28, an average of one every 30 seconds : are we really supposed to believe this would be the reaction of people in the lobby every time they heard that sound ? That 200 times, they would instinctively jump and look around them, to see where the noise was coming from ? The head movement is obviously deliberate and scripted : the crash is arranged, and so is their reaction, down to different directions designed to create artificial suspense.

Source

Here's a thread that really digs into the question.

I have 2 questions about the WTC jumpers

Just because 200 people sounds like an outrageous number does not mean that no one jumped at all. That's like saying anything that is exageratted is automatically false. Not only that, but you're not even thinking for yourself at this point. Now you're using analysis of documentaries to fight for you? Haven't you done your own research yet?

Assume as given the information that a civilian airliner will be deliberately flown into the north tower of the World Trade Center at 8.46 am on the morning of 11 September, 2001, hitting the tower head on at 450 m.p.h. after flying in a straight line towards it, at a constant height of about 1,200 feet, impacting at around floor 95 (15 or so from the top of the tower) — to contain the death toll to roughly 2,000 (can there be any other explanation for the height?); we need propaganda film of this event, showing the last seconds of the plane's flight (just in case there are no eyewitnesses, in which case the fire could have been caused by something inside the building) and allowing a close-up of the damage to the building after impact, which means filming from somewhere north of the tower. Obviously, the film has to be disguised as "accidental," so a cover story has to be contrived, and a suitable filming location chosen. This is no doubt exactly how the Naudet film was organised — by setting requirements, and trying to solve all the problems involved — in a brainstorming session like the one in the film "Wag the Dog," about a fabricated war, ironically — starring Robert De Niro, who, even more ironically, was somehow persuaded to introduce the Naudet film, and lend credibility to it, when he or his management should have known better.

Once reading that you can see this guy's rationality. He hasn't seen any of the civilian tapings yet has he now? Was he even there?

Originally posted by baddmove
reply to post by GoodOlDave

 

O.K. Dave....

I did some digging on that picture you posted..

NOTE: It has been proven that this picture was not of anyone from 911, but rather a Russian man who was hit by a truck.

It's true, If you follow the links in here..
letsrollforums.com...

They will take you to a Russian traffick accident page with the pictures of the accident on them.
letsrollforums.com...
scroll dowd to post # 5

Also noted..There is snow in the cracks of the street and there is a glove on the hand holding up the sheet..

Shoes and pant's you see on those officers are Russian issue..

As for the jumpers OP..not really sure if we will ever know the truth

edit on 26-12-2011 by baddmove because: (no reason given)

Truth may be elusive, but the BS is getting easier to identify.

Wow, nice homework...thanks.

Still, I'll hand it to Good Ol' Dave, at least he tried to provide a photograph. Most of the other folks are content to tear their hair and gnash their teeth while gazing at me in hatred.

reply to post by septic


I usually do not respond to threads about 9/11 but this one caught my eye.

This woman does not know what in the world she is talking about. Saying that the jumpers from the World Trade Center were being faked. There is absolutely no way that the jumpers could have been faked. You just can't fake the sound of a six foot tall, 200 pound person crashing to the Earth from 80+ floors above the ground. If the jumpers and the sounds of the impacts were faked. Then how do you explain the F.D.N.Y.'s reason behind sending evacuees coming from 1 World Trade out via the Mezzanine and through another building. They knew that people were actually jumping from the buildings. There were people jumping from both buildings and they weren't shown for good reason. As one of the firemen said, "Were conditions up there so bad that the best way out was to jump?"



If they were being faked then how do you explain three F.D.N.Y. Battalion Chiefs and two Division Chiefs reporting people jumping from the buildings. you can clearly hear them advising their dispatch that they had people jumping from the building.


I don't see how she is getting that the jumpers were faked especially considering that she wasn't there on 9/11.

Originally posted by septic
reply to post by mr10k

 

Nice excerpt. now how in any way does that offer to retaliate to Helmkat's post?

You don't think the comparing me to a holocaust denier was in any way using:

...intensely emotionally appealing words so closely associated with highly valued concepts and beliefs that they carry conviction without supporting information or reason.

?

I know people like you. People who take the red pill and cannot believe the reality they are seeing -- so much so that they believe that what they are seeing is as fake as the fake reality.

Project much?

It's called comparing. He's comparing you to a holocaust denier.

"intensely emotionally appealing words so closely associated with highly valued concepts and beliefs that they carry conviction without supporting information or reason"

"carry conviction without supporting information or reason"

He wasn't trying to prove anything nor convict you of anything. He was comparing you. Again, you just pulled a bunch of words out of a anti-prop site because they sounded nice to you.

No I'm not projecting. I took the red pill and I'm happy I did. Clearly the red pill is a little too much for you.

reply to post by mr10k


Wow, you're a fast study. It took me a few days to read Raphael's piece. It's a real eye-opener when you watch the movie with Raphael's article as a study-guide, isn't it? Tell me more of your impressions, please.

reply to post by mnmcandiez


Yup, the new part is the buildings falling down.

reply to post by gimmefootball400


I can easier believe ranked fire fighters will lie, than I can believe fraudulent photographs are real.

reply to post by septic


I am responding to the thread in an attempt to help you understand that, while your motivation is well founded, your inability to see that not every aspect of 9/11 was faked is a huge detriment to your supposed objective.

I saw them fall, Septic.

I watched it with my own eyes.

Photoshopped or faked photos are another topic entirely.

Have you even considered the possibility that this is a painful and horrible memory for those of us who were there, and your attitude and lack of respect for those who died is keeping people who might otherwise support your efforts from aiding you in your pursuit of the real truth?

A bit of restraint and respect would aid your quest, not to mention actually listening to those of us who witnessed the horror unfold firsthand.

I guess it's hard to say unless you were there watching, but the mainstream media is bs. Trust your gut instinct with the answer.

Originally posted by septic
reply to post by mr10k

 

Wow, you're a fast study. It took me a few days to read Raphael's piece. It's a real eye-opener when you watch the movie with Raphael's article as a study-guide, isn't it? Tell me more of your impressions, please.

No, I won't. Reason being if you weren't just trying to find ways to pick and knit at me you would've seen I asked you a question, that you could've used your post to answer instead of talking about the exceprt I sourced to back my point.

Now you're using analysis of documentaries to fight for you? Haven't you done your own research yet?

If you can just stop being a kid, and debate like an adult instead of bringing up information I'm using as basis then...

Originally posted by jeichelberg
I do not know where all these videos are surfacing from...When I watched the coverage that day, all I saw was one person jump from the buildings...

I watched from the moments before the second plane hit and I definitely saw more than one person jumping.

Are people really trying to argue that those jumpers were holograms to instill fear now?

Dear lord, the depths people will sink just to cope with what happened that day.

Net you'll be trying to say the Japanese earthquake was a psy-op so we can all invade Tokyo by February...

Originally posted by jimnuggits
reply to post by septic

 

I am responding to the thread in an attempt to help you understand that, while your motivation is well founded, your inability to see that not every aspect of 9/11 was faked is a huge detriment to your supposed objective.

I saw them fall, Septic.

I watched it with my own eyes.

Photoshopped or faked photos are another topic entirely.

Have you even considered the possibility that this is a painful and horrible memory for those of us who were there, and your attitude and lack of respect for those who died is keeping people who might otherwise support your efforts from aiding you in your pursuit of the real truth?

A bit of restraint and respect would aid your quest, not to mention actually listening to those of us who witnessed the horror unfold firsthand.

Be horrified then, but I'll require more than just poorly-written stories and badly-faked images before I join you. Nothing personal.

reply to post by intrptr


Thanks, any thoughts on the topic or is our session just about up?

reply to post by septic


Cool story bro. Pics or it didn't happen.

Originally posted by septic

Originally posted by jimnuggits
reply to post by septic

 

I am responding to the thread in an attempt to help you understand that, while your motivation is well founded, your inability to see that not every aspect of 9/11 was faked is a huge detriment to your supposed objective.

I saw them fall, Septic.

I watched it with my own eyes.

Photoshopped or faked photos are another topic entirely.

Have you even considered the possibility that this is a painful and horrible memory for those of us who were there, and your attitude and lack of respect for those who died is keeping people who might otherwise support your efforts from aiding you in your pursuit of the real truth?

A bit of restraint and respect would aid your quest, not to mention actually listening to those of us who witnessed the horror unfold firsthand.

Be horrified then, but I'll require more than just poorly-written stories and badly-faked images before I join you. Nothing personal.

There. I'm done. I have enough of this bull#. # it. I'm going to bed. Do whatever you want.

reply to post by septic

So what you are saying is that you'll believe someone that is nowhere close to the scene? I'd rather trust the information that was coming over the fire radio than I would the one taking the video or making the news report.My problem with that is usually the reporters and photographers are a greater distance away from an incident than what your cops, firemen, and medics are. Yet, the people who are "reporting" on the incident don't have a clue as to what is going on most of the time when a call like that goes on.

Originally posted by septic
reply to post by gimmefootball400

 

I can easier believe ranked fire fighters will lie, than I can believe fraudulent photographs are real.

Bite your tongue

reply to post by SGTSECRET


Yes pictures do pixelate but they do over the whole picture not just one part of it like the ones she displayed