Are the stories of 911 "jumpers" true?

Originally posted by litterbaux
Were there real jumpers?

I doubt it. If any of it was real there would be no need to fake every photo. If I'm wrong, someone must have a photo that isn't fake.

Can we move on now?

This thread's about whether the jumper story is real, if you don't want to talk about it, why are you here?

reply to post by septic


Woah buddy, no need to lash out at me. I'm just saying the pixelation in the photo's is clearly a photoshop relic. That doesn't mean people didn't actually jump. I'm certain some did. Maybe there aren't any photograph's and the media just whipped something together for shock and awe.

Arguing that because nobody caught a photograph there were no jumpers is a lame excuse for an argument. This is what my "move on" statement was about.

Some of the windows could have been broken already by prior impact, the people didn't have to necessarily have had opened the windows themselves.

Originally posted by litterbaux
reply to post by septic

 

Woah buddy, no need to lash out at me. I'm just saying the pixelation in the photo's is clearly a photoshop relic. That doesn't mean people didn't actually jump. I'm certain some did. Maybe there aren't any photograph's and the media just whipped something together for shock and awe.

Arguing that because nobody caught a photograph there were no jumpers is a lame excuse for an argument. This is what my "move on" statement was about.

No one's lashing out at you here.

It's not that no one caught a photograph, the point is the photographs that were used to support the story were fraudulent. Any honest investigator would tend to distrust a story that used fraudulent images to support it, or am I being unreasonable here?

Originally posted by septic

No one's lashing out at you here.

It's not that no one caught a photograph, the point is the photographs that were used to support the story were fraudulent. Any honest investigator would tend to distrust a story that used fraudulent images to support it, or am I being unreasonable here?

No, you are not being unreasonable in the thought process. Yes you are being unreasonable when it comes down to if people did or did not jump. Yes the photo's are faked. Yes this would lead to more questions.

You actually have two separate events here that you are tying together. Yes they are related but one is an easy answer. Were the photo's faked. They indeed seem faked. Second event, did people jump from the building. You have eye witnesses in this thread that said they saw people jump, you have firemen that said they saw and or heard people hitting the pavement. As an investigator, you have to take all these items into account. If you don't have physical evidence ie. a picture it doesn't mean something didn't happen. So next you have eye witness accounts. Next you verify their credibility. On ats its virtually impossible to do this but you have to ask yourself, why would people lie on ats?

If someone on here says they saw someone jump and they were on this intersection at this time, I believe them. I don't have any evidence at this point to not believe them.

Originally posted by litterbaux

Originally posted by septic

No one's lashing out at you here.

It's not that no one caught a photograph, the point is the photographs that were used to support the story were fraudulent. Any honest investigator would tend to distrust a story that used fraudulent images to support it, or am I being unreasonable here?

No, you are not being unreasonable in the thought process. Yes you are being unreasonable when it comes down to if people did or did not jump. Yes the photo's are faked. Yes this would lead to more questions.

If someone on here says they saw someone jump and they were on this intersection at this time, I believe them. I don't have any evidence at this point to not believe them.

The photos were faked and broadcast all over the media as genuine. This is massive fraud, not something to just shrug-off. The intent was clear...to horrify. Looking at the bulk of the replies to this thread is evidence enough they succeeded.

I have already stated I disagree with the story that the natural instinct would be to jump. To the contrary, I would never give up hope even if I was on fire. A person or two stumbling blindly out a broken window I can buy, but hundreds committing mass suicide is pure Hollywood.

Originally posted by NuminousCosmos
I've read through this whole thread and I can't figure out what the OP is trying to say. Are you saying that the people shown jumping from the towers were fake?

If that is the case, then do you believe that no one jumped?

Did anyone, in your opinion, actually die on September 11th?

I'm just trying to follow your thought process here...

Let's start with the images broadcast all over the media accompanying the story of the jumpers. Have any been proved to be genuine, and if so, can you please provide them on the thread?

Originally posted by septic

Originally posted by litterbaux

Originally posted by septic

No one's lashing out at you here.

It's not that no one caught a photograph, the point is the photographs that were used to support the story were fraudulent. Any honest investigator would tend to distrust a story that used fraudulent images to support it, or am I being unreasonable here?

No, you are not being unreasonable in the thought process. Yes you are being unreasonable when it comes down to if people did or did not jump. Yes the photo's are faked. Yes this would lead to more questions.

If someone on here says they saw someone jump and they were on this intersection at this time, I believe them. I don't have any evidence at this point to not believe them.

The photos were faked and broadcast all over the media as genuine. This is massive fraud, not something to just shrug-off. The intent was clear...to horrify. Looking at the bulk of the replies to this thread is evidence enough they succeeded.

I have already stated I disagree with the story that the natural instinct would be to jump. To the contrary, I would never give up hope even if I was on fire. A person or two stumbling blindly out a broken window I can buy, but hundreds committing mass suicide is pure Hollywood.

No listen. You are saying that because photos may or may not be fake that the whole entire event was fake. That's like saying sabertooth's don't exist because all you've seen are artists's renditions. This whole time your basing the credibility of an entire event on photos. That childish. You obviously aren't good at finding the truth if you're willing to be after you've seen a photo. You've seen videos. And no one's going to photo a person falling from a building after 2 planes hit two towers. This is why you are pissing people off. You are acting like an idiot and everyone is trying to reason with you, but you consistenly ask for photos.

Originally posted by intrptr

Originally posted by septic
reply to post by gimmefootball400

 

I can easier believe ranked fire fighters will lie, than I can believe fraudulent photographs are real.

Bite your tongue

Oh? Are they beyond suspicion then? Do tell.

What were the incentives for the made men in the FDNY brass to "die" on 911? How's 4 million and some change sound? Not bad for government work, if you can get it.

In the following article, I will present data to show that;

1. Very few are listed in the Social Security Death Index (15%)
2. Nearly all received benefits from the Victim’s Compensation Fund(85%)
3. The distribution of the Firemen by Company is significantly different than what would be expected, and
4. The rank distribution is top-heavy.

92 ranked firemen died on 9/11. They account for 27% of the casualties.

23 were Chief and above.

23 were Captains.

46 were Lieutenants.

Rest of the Article Here

No, these photos are not fake.

img174.imageshack.us...

I mean wow, the picture doesn't seem that pixelated there does it? Pixels are NOT proof of anything. Compression and decompression of images. The lady had a low quality image, zoomed in 500%

If the arguments are based on pixels, then please stop responding. If you were to Photoshop in jumpers for a image, at least spend 2 minutes on it instead of 15 seconds as those low quality images suggest. The lady in the video really needs to stop making useless videos and see a dermatologist for those disgusting arms.

www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by frenzy4444
I guess it's hard to say unless you were there watching, but the mainstream media is bs. Trust your gut instinct with the answer.

fair enough, thanks for your post

Originally posted by yourboycal2
I believe the jumpers are real. Far to many witness , and video/pics.


Watch this documentary you can hear the thump of humans falling to their deaths.

edit on 26-12-2011 by yourboycal2 because: (no reason given)

For those that do not believe there were jumpers, or that all photos were faked, all you need to do is watch the video that yourboycal2 posted on the very first page of this thread. It tells of the investigation a journalist did to try to find the identity of 'the falling man'. A photo that created quite the controversy when seen in the newspaper on September 12, 2001. It's real easy to figure out, there were jumpers and there are plenty of authentic photos of jumpers. All you need to do is seek out the evidence... exhaust both sides of the story. Once that is done by you, the individual, you will see that there is no story... to this thread.

There were real jumpers. We've all seen video and I personally saw live jumpers on 9/11 and have heard and read many, many, many more accounts from survivors of the towers telling of jumpers and the horror of the bodies hitting the ground. This isn't up for debate. People jumped. You may see or have a photo or image that has been changed, edited or photoshopped, That's a seperate issue that does need to be looked into and addressed, but please don't say that people didn't jump. They did. It was horrible.

reply to post by Laxpla


Thanks for the replies and the links.

I believe this thread contains the available images...not sure if it's complete.

Originally posted by amazing
There were real jumpers. We've all seen video and I personally saw live jumpers on 9/11 and have heard and read many, many, many more accounts from survivors of the towers telling of jumpers and the horror of the bodies hitting the ground. This isn't up for debate. People jumped. You may see or have a photo or image that has been changed, edited or photoshopped, That's a seperate issue that does need to be looked into and addressed, but please don't say that people didn't jump. They did. It was horrible.

Yes. It was horrible. That's the point of the OP. Propaganda works, and it works best here because we think it's news or entertainment, as if there is any difference these days.

reply to post by six67seven


For those who minimize the faked video and images, there is no good reason for even one example of fraud.

I've heard that people weren't really "jumping" to their deaths but were propelled out of the building due to the force of the explosions ...

Can anyone confirm this?

Just because you weren't there to see it, doesn't mean it didn't happen...what kind of a thread is this anyways? Maybe we should have a thread for "Did the Holocaust really happen?", "Were people jumping into boiling rivers becaue their skin was melting off when the US dropped bombs on Hiroshima?", "Did people really drink Jim Jones' kool-aid?"

I never witnessed any of these things, but don't doubt some of the simple facts that are out there. You don't wanna believe some crummy pixelated videos on YouTube, that's fine...but let's do a bit more research.

Originally posted by goldcrow

I never witnessed any of these things, but don't doubt some of the simple facts that are out there.

Now who's drinking the Koolaid?

Tell me, if Life Magazine ran a cover story featuring an image that turned out to be fraudulent, and it turned out every other mainstream outlet did the same, doesn't that indicate a concerted effort at perception management?

Honestly, I've never seen such a sorry display of shooting the messenger. If I am mistaken and the images are not fraudulent, surely someone can show me?