Please don't hate Servicemen.

Originally posted by Corinthas

How ever the US military is just the long arm of American injustice most of the time, yes your going to remind me how you are responsible for my freedom. Yes you helped Europe show Adolf the door, but this was not out of some selfless urge to do good, the US saw profit in it.
Well they could't let the Russians have all the pie now could they?

This has to be the stupidest, most contradictory statement I have seen all week. Someone who bemoans the American military as a tool of our political injustice, yet in the same breath acknowledges that the same organization is responsible for his personal freedom.

The US fought WWII because there was money in it? Not only is that concept repulsive and wrong, it sullies the memory of our fighting men who died on your land and are buried there, so that YOU can be a keyboard cowboy and spew forth your left-wing anti-Americanism. And by the way, all the so-called money we made, profiting from a war the killed a half million Americans, can easily be found the next time you look out your window. Take a good look at your roads, railroads, ports, airports, powerplants, and infrastructure. Then log onto the web and look up The Marshall Plan (hint - thats 12 Billion dollars - 1947 dollars - that came out of OUR pockets to rebuild a continent that Europeans tried to destroy).

And if you are so completly bind to reality, history, and the experiences of those people who lived before you to think that Russian occupation would have been preferable to the way it ended up happening, well, there is not much I can say about that that you haven't already said.

Let me clue you in on something:

Terrorists use targeted acts of extreme, illegal violence to make political statements. Terrorists are criminals in the eyes of the established society and law, and act in an immoral and unethical manner. Terrorists are people who are unhappy with the status quo, who want change, and are willing to kill and maim to implement their political or social agendas at the expense of others, who are almost always imnnocent, unarmed, and in support of the established society and culture.

Soldiers are tools used by the establsihed social and politcal entity. Soldiers are conceived, by the society who created them, to be a necessary force required to enforce political, cultural, and social laws and norms. Soldiers are not criminals; they are officers who take oaths of allegience, swear to obey the law, execute the lawful orders of the civilian leaders, and defend the established politcal and social process. Soldiers destroy and kill, but only within the guidelines establsihed by the social and polical system.

While you may not agree with the political or social policy which implements the usage of soldiers in combat, to refer to soldiers as being equal to terrorists is wrong on both a conceptual and moral level.

So, are your just ignorant, or are you just morally backrupt?

go ahead and ignore (lots of ignoring going on round here , i thought we were supposed to be denying it.. oh well)

ignore the words MOST OF THE TIME.. and insert ALL OF THE TIME in there just to make your argument hold... go right ahead see if i take any notice of the incoherence you spout.

Originally posted by Corinthas
What don't i get?

The fact that people actually volunteer to kill and be killed?

No I don't "get" that and want to keep it that way.

What's not to "get"??? courage, fortitude, belief that you are doing what is neccessary??
As far as soldiers being terroirist's that's simply crap. They are just average men and women for feel they have a higher purpose in a lot of cases... IE.. protecting the basic rights that most of the western world enjoy's so much. I couldn't tell you the last time I heard of a soldier strapping a bomb to his/her chest and walking into a school/plane/building/commuter bus with the intention of killing everone close by indiscriminately. l I'm very proud to have served myself, I was just fortunate enough never to have had to experience combat, but had i been called I would have with out a second thought.

You are the one who is ignorant as to what your country has done to secure your freedom.

That must be the all important 5th freedom:

The right as westerners to rob and exploit the 3rd world.

Originally posted by Corinthas
Fistly step the #$% back with this ad hominem $#!+

Now look who's showing his abject hostility. Shoes on the other foot now, especially when you don't have a leg to stand on, eh?

I am not really against resistance (all though this IS A FORM OF AGRESSION KEEPING THE CYCLE GOING), i am against agression. And in the old chicken and egg style agression came first, and if agression leaves first there is no need for resistance.

Yes you are. You think that resistance just breeds aggression. You said so yourself earlier. Unfortunately, as with the rest of your thinking, you are totally backwards. It is AGRESSION that breeds RESISTANCE, not the other way around. If you were correct, when Germany over ran France and they laid down their arms, Germany would have stopped and said, "OH! You aren't resisting! We'll go away and leave you in peace." Did that happen? Nope. That alone shoots your moronic theory in the foot, now doesn't it?

Since the nature of man is to be aggressive, the need for resistance and self-defense will always be there, regardless of your illusion of the possibility of a utopian society. There will always be religious crack heads that believe their god has ordered them to kill all who do not prescribe to their faith. There will always be those who desire more power, more land and the thrill of conquest. Even if there is the illusion of non-aggression, it will return as soon as anyone disarms, as you so stupidly advocate. Then the side that has disarmed will be over run in an instant. Your theory is absolute bull.

Sadly the armed forces are more often that not involved in agressive actions nowadays as there is no one out there who has enough power to act as a truly threatening agressor.

Who's armed forces? I assume you are talking about the US military. Hate to tell you, bucko, but Iraq is the first time the USA has executed a pre-emptive attack in a long time, and perhaps ever, if you look at what led to specific conflicts. Panama - the duly elected government requested intervention after Noriega refused to relinquish power to his successor. Kuwait - invasion by Iraq. Grenada - invasion and hostage taking by guerillas. Viet Nam - invasion of the south by communist north supported by communist China. Korea - same as Viet Nam. WW II - pre-emptive attack on the USA by Japan...and on...and on...

So, it is not "aggression", as you falsely claim, it is defense. What would have happened if the US had not assisted in the defense of these many allies? You'd be speaking German and saying "Seig Hiel!" along with the rest of Europe. Again, ask some civilians who lived through WW II how THEY feel about aggression and defense. Tell them YOUR ideas about soldiers being terrorists. I'll bet you'll be full for months on all the knuckle sandwiches you'll be eating.

Dont try to argue about a "truly ideal" situation being impossible, i am talking about getting as close to the "ideal" as possible.

So what is, "as close to the "ideal" as possible."? Only some countries have weapons? Who chooses those countries? Do we create a UN Armed Forces and allow them to be in charge of security for the whole world? They can't even control their own diplomats, what with the "Oil for Bribes" scandal and all. Do you expect them to handle global security? Yeah...right...

How ever the US military is just the long arm of American injustice most of the time,...

What? You really show your ignorance here, little boy. Tell that to Europe after BOTH WW I and WW II, South Korea, Grenada, Haiti, Panama, Kuwait, the Balkans, Eastern Europe after the end of the cold war, and now Iraq after having been freed from the oppression of the murderous family of Saddam. Iraq may still have a long way to go, but at least now they have the CHANCE of freedom that they NEVER had under Saddam.

Yes you helped Europe show Adolf the door, but this was not out of some selfless urge to do good, the US saw profit in it.

Profit? What the hell are you talking about, profit? It COST the US to eradicate the Nazi's, in both American lives and the monetary cost of rebuilding Europe. Did you think we just left after the dirty work was done? Shows what an idiot you really are.

I have my freedom 'coz i am a rich white European (you have the W.A.S.P. equivalent over in the US) and not some poor 3rd world dweller livinig in a place where some big multinational (probably US) corproation wants cheap labour and free natural resources.

Again, as you are obviously too stupid to understand what everybody else is telling you. You are NOT responsible for your own freedom. The soldiers who have died to GIVE you that freedom are. Period. The only thing your money gives you is freedom form poverty and the ability to go where you wish and do what you want. That is not the kind of freedom we are talking about here. If the soldiers you defame didn't GIVE YOU FREEDOM BY THE SHEDDING OF THEIR BLOOD, you wouldn't HAVE that money that allows you to do what you wish.

And by the way, W.A.S.P. does not mean wealthy. It means "White Anglo Saxon Protestant". For a "rich white boy", you certainly aren't very well educated. Guess you bought your grades. You wasted your money.

Originally posted by Corinthas
go ahead and ignore (lots of ignoring going on round here , i thought we were supposed to be denying it.. oh well)

ignore the words MOST OF THE TIME.. and insert ALL OF THE TIME in there just to make your argument hold... go right ahead see if i take any notice of the incoherence you spout.

You need to take your own advice here, bubba. You are the one who is ignorant, and thankfully, everyone else is denying your ignorance. Why do you think that there is not a single post in this thread supporting your stance?

Because you are wrong. Utterly, undeniably, unequivocally wrong.

I am disgusted with some of the replies on this thread some people are so Anti-Soldier its unbelievable. I am only 29 years of age yet 11 years of my life have been spent in the armed forces (infantary and intelligence). I was not forced to go i chose to. I did it for my country and i believed it was for the safety of the people of my country. Soldiers do not go to war goverments do we soldiers are just the pawns in a large game of chess if you will. I have recently left and yes i do not support any war but i support every serviceman or servicewoman in every force in the world. What makes you think that soldiers like going to war. Its a very daunting and upsetting situation to have to say goodbye to your loved ones not sure if you will see them again. I have had to do this many times but you do it because that is your job and you chose to do it. The Armed forces do not recruit mad gun toting weirdos as they would be a liability in a theatre of operations. What would happen if ww3 started you would probably be in support of our Armed forces then wouldnt you i mean who would fight for the right of the lives of you and your family then.

Originally posted by Corinthas
You completely missed the point of the game didn't you?

To be expected really....

The point WAS if you kill a terrorist more will come, so you can't win the game.

Edit: crucial "t" to be added

[edit on 16/9/2004 by Corinthas]

Nice double-standard.

So what were we supposed to do after 911? Just sit back and just take it. That idea is more offensive than your rants. Because we should not stick up for ourselves because we will make the sick f*cks and their friends who pulled off 911 mad? That is assnine!

I suggest you hop on a plane and go down to the WTC site. It might knock some sense into you. 3000 people just minding their own business were snuffed out in a day. for what? Why?

As I said before, I am against being in Iraq, but I was for going into Afgahnistan.

The people who planned that deserve to be fed to dogs.

[edit on 16-9-2004 by Facefirst]

Originally posted by Corinthas
Firstly i am not bashin the people who signed up, i am bashing the environment in which people are driven to it.

Poverty and no other prospects usually.

Wait a minute, I come from a fairly well off family. Money has never been a problem for me. Why the hell would I want to join then? Maybe it's because I have a sense of PATRIOTISM and want to help the country, not bag it like damn hippies.

@ Facefirst...

Have you been to Viet Nam, Nicaragua, Laos or El Salvador? Or any other country that the US just decided to $#!+ on? HAVE YOU?! 3000 victims is a walk in the park compared to the SLAUGHTER and the ATROCITIES the US has comitted, repeatedly and without remorse.


Take you WTC and shove it where your countrys foreign policy comes from!

Originally posted by Corinthas
@ Facefirst...

Have you been to Viet Nam, Nicaragua, Laos or El Salvador? Or any other country that the US just decided to $#!+ on? HAVE YOU?! 3000 victims is a walk in the park compared to the SLAUGHTER and the ATROCITIES the US has comitted, repeatedly and without remorse.


Take you WTC and shove it where your countrys foreign policy comes from!

Let me ask you, Mr. Revisionist...have YOU been to any of thses countries??? I've been to ALL FOUR!!! You don' t have a CLUE what you are talking about, PERIOD!!!!!

I love how you ask such a stupid question when it is so absolutly obvious you do not speak from a SHRED of expierience!!!!


Worthless....

If you had bothered.... it was in reply to the question had I been to ground zero? As if 300 deaths was going to make me care! I was pointing out that US "interventions" regularly produce casualties in the tens of thousands.

No I have not been to these countries.

I am now supposing you were there in the heat of US bombing raids in the 60's (Laos and Cambodia) and in Nicaragua in the 80's when Reagan was having a go (allthough he stopped short of bombing them).
Hang on you were probably there in the 90's sometime.. nice and safe and clusterbomb free by then huh?

anybody who follows orders blindly or that goes against their heart is a slave, pure and simple, whether they wear a mcdonalds uniform, postal uniform, air force uniform or papal uniform.
To praise people for following orders seems pathetic to me. How about thinking for yourself??? I know its harder, kids, but the rewards are really good. Some of those rewards are like continuing have have all your arms and legs..being able to sleep at night because you didn't kill a civilian family.
If you want to "serve" your country join the peace corp and help others...strapping a gun to yourself and killing others because someone tells you too is about as far away from being a real man as it gets.
And before the flaming starts:
I have several family members in the military and they joined becuase they're ignorant flag-waving rednecks who like GUNS. If they die, they die. Thats what happens when you choose that path...

Real idealistic.


There is no enemy anywhere - Lao Tse

Until this is learned their will be no peace on this backward-ass planet. However from an evolutionary perpespective, maybe its a good way to weed out the violence prone primates from the genetic breeding pool?


[edit on 20-9-2004 by Voice_of Doom]

Voce_of_doom a voice of reason?!?

No you MUST hate you country... and you freedom and...

Another who see $#!+ for what it is: smelly, brown and squishie to the touch!

Originally posted by Corinthas
Voce_of_doom a voice of reason?!?

No you MUST hate you country... and you freedom and...

Another who see $#!+ for what it is: smelly, brown and squishie to the touch!

Nope...simply another version of you....a "blinded by the light" individual who has no clue what the real world is all about...something to be ignored


Time for you both tto go in the ignore box....


Say good-night!!!!

Originally posted by Corinthas
If you had bothered.... it was in reply to the question had I been to ground zero? As if 300 deaths was going to make me care! I was pointing out that US "interventions" regularly produce casualties in the tens of thousands.

What are you on? 300 deaths?

I am not a slave, I served my country because it needed people like me that stand infront of our country instead of behind it cowering.

Believe it or not you can serve in the Military without getting shot at. Just join a Corps that doesn't see frontline action if you are a wuss and not prepared to make sacrifices.

Once you join a frontline Corps you will do ANYTHING for your battlebuddies including running out into an open street to drag a body back for his/her family back home.

Originally posted by Corinthas
@ Facefirst...

Have you been to Viet Nam, Nicaragua, Laos or El Salvador? Or any other country that the US just decided to $#!+ on? HAVE YOU?! 3000 victims is a walk in the park compared to the SLAUGHTER and the ATROCITIES the US has comitted, repeatedly and without remorse.


Take you WTC and shove it where your countrys foreign policy comes from!

Thanks, I will.

And you actually wondered why I thought you posted like you were 12? Your above response is proof enough.

First off, I am still waiting for my links to your claims of US concentration camps in Greece and Italy at the end of WWII. I saw your book list link, but I am not going to go scouring through those books for the information you already have claimed to have seen. Find it and back up your claims. Selective memory?

Secondly, you are talking double standards here. So 3000 people who were just minding their own business were murdered, yet you chastise us for sticking up for ourselves and send me a link to a childish video game to hopefully demonstrate to my feeble mind that killing terrorists is wrong? Is it wrong for the Aussies to retalliate against and stomp out who killed all of those folks in that Bali nightclub? Or should they just sit back and take it? I suppose the Spainards should just sit back and take it after the atrocity that happened in Madrid?(even though the left Iraq) Or maybe the Russians should sit back and take it too after that school horror?

Or are you going to say that all those people who died deserved it? That is essentially what you said.

The terrorists can take their religious-based foreign policy and shove it where the sun don't shine.

And regarding the WTC, it was not a question you claimed to be responding to, it was a suggestion.

Daft is as daft does.

I just can't wait for Corinthas to have someone close to him/her to be touched by terrorism. Maybe then the ideals will go out the window and he/she will return to reality.

If something happened like that to Corinthas, then people like Ezekial would just call him crazy if he still stuck to his ideals. Much as how people have maligned Nick Berg's father for sticking to his anti-war stance even after having his son decapitated. You cannot win against a warmongering mindset.

[edit on 20-9-2004 by heelstone]