Please don't hate Servicemen.

Originally posted by Affirmative Reaction

You couldn�t be more wrong. You don't have clue one why people join the military, because you have no sense of freedom, no sense of community, no sense of self worth what so ever. You only know your animal lusts and immediate needs, and will do whatever you need to satisfy them. You couldn't begin to know the camaraderie of soldiers in peace time or the brotherhood of soldiers in time of conflict. You are a selfish child who has no idea what the world is really like. It isn�t' the moronic protestor like you who gains himself the freedom to speak out in protest, it is the soldier who died on the field of battle to protect that right who gives it to him.

I'll tell you what...words on a page don't do justice to this topic. I'll be retired in a few months. I'll use my free space available travel aboard AF birds to come on over to Amsterdam, and we'll meet up some where. You name the time and place. I'll be the disabled veteran proudly wearing my "USAF RETIRED" cap...have you the guts to meet me in person????



[edit on 15-9-2004 by Affirmative Reaction]

Look at you lashing out with all the hate that the forces have instilled in you!


Thanks for telling me what i know and don't, and what freedom I have. I'll remeber to consult you on this in future.

Someone with your kind of eloquence is better off in the forces so you can use sharp language instead of lead to get your way.

Fighting for freedom OK, why was it taken in the first place?

Beacuse of greedy people with weapons imposing their will. So the solution MUST be to get more people with weapons to tell the first lot where to go.

Fighting fire with fire instead of removing the fuel that is feeding it in the first place.

As for having the guts to meet you... why should i want to meet a man of such charms as your fine self ? So you can try to intimidate me (the only form of diplomacy you AND YOU COUNTRY will ever know!) and hurl abuse my way?

Originally posted by Corinthas
Look at you lashing out with all the hate that the forces have instilled in you!


Thanks for telling me what i know and don't, and what freedom I have. I'll remeber to consult you on this in future.

Someone with your kind of eloquence is better off in the forces so you can use sharp language instead of lead to get your way.

Fighting for freedom OK, why was it taken in the first place?

Beacuse of greedy people with weapons imposing their will. So the solution MUST be to get more people with weapons to tell the first lot where to go.

Fighting fire with fire instead of removing the fuel that is feeding it in the first place.

As for having the guts to meet you... why should i want to meet a man of such charms as your fine self ? So you can try to intimidate me (the only form of diplomacy you AND YOU COUNTRY will ever know!) and hurl abuse my way?

First of all, no one has instilled any hate in me what so ever. You, however, have brought out the disgust in many people here on the board. Does that make you feel like a man? I hope so, because you don't have a chance of being one on your own.

Someone needs to tell you what you know or do not, because you have proven by your statements here that you are perhaps the most clueless individual on the board in a long time.

You live in the Netherlands. Ask a few older folks there who were around during WWII what the Nazis took from them, and who won it back for them. Perhaps that will set off the clue light in your cranium, but I doubt it.

Fighting fire with fire. Lets see...how about an example? Iraq invaded Iran. Iran fought them off. If they hadn't, they would now be part of Iraq. Iraq then invaded Kuwait. The UN coalition drove them out. Had they not, Kuwait would now be part of Iraq, and who would have been next? Saudi Arabia? Jordan? Israel? How about all of them? That's the most likely answer.

But YOU would have them simply lay down and surrender, because defending themselves would be "fighting fire with fire", and that would be wrong, right? Ask those Dutch people who lived through WWII what THEY think about fighting fire with fire.

How the HELL do you think you remove the "fuel" as you put it? By extinguishing it when it burns too far past its boundaries.

Believe me, I wouldn't "hurl abuses" your way. We would just have a long conversation about how "soldiers=terrorists with jobs"...

But then, you are a gutless wonder who sits behind his keyboard tapping out bullshiite...I expected the inane answer you gave....

Originally posted by Corinthas
Soldier = terrorist with a job!

Honestly, that's pretty low. I don't know how you can spit on those who gave their lives so you could live freely and in comfort today.

Why would somebody volunteer to die? Nobody enlists with the intent of getting killed. They just have to courage to put their life on the line to defend their country and the lives of innocents if that is what it takes.

Fistly step the #$% back with this ad hominem $#!+

I am not really against resistance (all though this IS A FORM OF AGRESSION KEEPING THE CYCLE GOING), i am against agression. And in the old chicken and egg style agression came first, and if agression leaves first there is no need for resistance.

Sadly the armed forces are more often that not involved in agressive actions nowadays as there is no one out there who has enough power to act as a truly threatening agressor.

But forget about that.


Can you agree with me on this?

In an ideal situation armed is not needed, coz there would be no agression.

And if you can agree on that with me, will you go the next step and agree that the aim of the game should be to try to realize the ideal situation?

Dont try to argue about a "truly ideal" situation being impossible, i am talking about getting as close to the "ideal" as possible.

Take The New Zealand Forces for example, they are trying to take it in the right direction (imo) by making them a sort of "rescue service with guns". They should just go the last step and get rid of the shooting irons as well, but give 'em some time.

How ever the US military is just the long arm of American injustice most of the time, yes your going to remind me how you are responsible for my freedom. Yes you helped Europe show Adolf the door, but this was not out of some selfless urge to do good, the US saw profit in it.
Well they could't let the Russians have all the pie now could they?

I have my freedom 'coz i am a rich white European (you have the W.A.S.P. equivalent over in the US) and not some poor 3rd world dweller livinig in a place where some big multinational (probably US) corproation wants cheap labour and free natural resources.

I'd like to stick my two cents in here amongst all the sabre rattling.

I thank the people who serve in the militray every time I use the internet, I thank them every time I say something against my government's policies, I thank them every time I say something against another nation's policies, I thank them for allowing me to be able to speak freely, and for the rights and freedoms to live as I choose, I thank them for giving me and protecting my right to vote, I thank them for giving and continuing to support my right to live in a nation free from oppresion and abundant with human rights. They do all that and not one of them has ever asked me for anything in return.

I thank both my country's military, and I thank the US military every day for these freedoms and rights. And you should too, they're the reason you are able to enjoy your freedoms.

If you live in the USA or Canada (or any other part of the free world) and you disagree with the above, I can only hope that one day you recover from your rectal cranial infarction.

Look if you cant see that a soldier is a terrorist who has a valid and accepted "reason" (him working for a western government usually makes anything he does OK) then you are judging by double standards. A guy with a gun is just a guy with a gun, even if he has a smarter uniform. Forget the fighting for freedom poop if you are killing (denying someone else HIS freedom) for your own freedom you are just as bad as the guy who wanted to take it from you in the forst place.

Oh and go right ahead and insult me, you bunch of intellectuals

END

Originally posted by Corinthas
Look if you cant see that a soldier is a terrorist who has a valid and accepted "reason" (him working for a western government usually makes anything he does OK) then you are judging by double standards. A guy with a gun is just a guy with a gun, even if he has a smarter uniform. Forget the fighting for freedom poop if you are killing (denying someone else HIS freedom) for your own freedom you are just as bad as the guy who wanted to take it from you in the forst place.

Oh and go right ahead and insult me, you bunch of intellectuals

END

When or if the day comes that you have to depend on those "terrorists" in uniform to save you, your family and everything dear to you, I think you will change your tune.

Denying someone else their freedom?

You mean like the Nazis freeing the Jews of their lives in Krakow??

Freedom poop?

We have an angry, attention starved child in our midst. I am not wasting my time with this exercise in redundancy anymore.

if you are going to bother can you please DEAL WITH WHAT I SAID!

"if you are killing for your own freedom you are just as bad as the guy who wanted to take it from you in the first place."

Tough one is it?

Want to tackle it try "philosophy" and "ethics"... it might help.

Oh and can you cut out THE INSULTS PLEASE, its insulting enough to have you completele ignore and misquote what i have written.

Originally posted by Ezekial

Originally posted by astroblade
is everyone here just ignoring Corinthas's post stating "soldier=terrorist with a job!" ? is that not blatant anti-servicement sentiment?

The problem is that the Terrorists are not categorised as Soldiers, it's nothing to do with pay. These Terrorists are not soldiers of the governing body of their country.

There are laws about the illegality of joining unsanctioned armies. This is the problem with that Australian guy David Hicks in G-Bay for terrorism. He joined a non-sanctioned army (ie Terrorist group).

If they what to fight a war, fight it on the battle field march your soldiers into ranks and fight head to head.

I wonder how many reports on the news (Aljazeria (spelling)) saying that "X amount of those killed were civilians" actually included the Terrorists in the body count, as they are not legally defined as combatants. Plus pretty much everyone over there has a rifle so where is the line between terrorist and civilian, it's pretty damn hard to see the difference when you are in your Stryker hearing the pings on your armour. You see a rifle, you shoot at the person gripping it.

I suggest some of you read this again. Thats what the difference between a Soldier (bless them) and Terrorists (damn them).

Originally posted by Corinthas
Firstly i am not bashin the people who signed up, i am bashing the environment in which people are driven to it.

Poverty and no other prospects usually.

Someone's being watching Michael Moore stuff.

Originally posted by Corinthas
if you are going to bother can you please DEAL WITH WHAT I SAID!

"if you are killing for your own freedom you are just as bad as the guy who wanted to take it from you in the first place."

Tough one is it?

Want to tackle it try "philosophy" and "ethics"... it might help.

Many of us have "dealt" with what you said.

For the umpteenth time, talk to some of the WWII European vets. Do you think they wanted a war? No one wants to kill, but do you think Hitler was going to stop if he was asked nicely? Especially while he was bombing the hell out of most of Europe and gassing the Jews? No. Something had to be done.

Passive resistance looks great on paper, but you can't practice it when you're dead.

"Ethics and Philosphy" goes right out the window when someone is killing your family, friends and neighbors.

Originally posted by Facefirst


Passive resistance looks great on paper, but you can't practice it when you're dead.

"Ethics and Philosphy" goes right out the window when someone is killing your family, friends and neighbors.

When you are dead you don't feel like you have to resist anymore, nice the way things take care of themselves isn't it. Bliss!

"Ehincs and philosophy" were never "in the window" and that's part of the problem i am trying to illustrate.

Originally posted by Corinthas

When you are dead you don't feel like you have to resist anymore, nice the way things take care of themselves isn't it. Bliss!

"Ehincs and philosophy" were never "in the window" and that's part of the problem i am trying to illustrate.

I meant, you can no longer resist when someone puts a gun to your head and pulls the trigger. When you resist passively, you are gambling that the force you are resisting against is not going to drive a tank over you, ala Tianemman Square. Those students in China resisted passively and look what it got them. Dead, wounded and sent to re-education camps. Being dead under a tank sounds like total bliss.

The Polish, Fins and Norwegians were not barbaric and Hitler went in and attacked them anyway. I am not going to criticise them for defending their way of life and freedom. You can Ethics and Philosphy that all you want.

The concept of dead is lost on you isn't it?

You are takling about giving a rats bottom about where your corpse is after you have leaft it behind to ascend the celestial escalator or whatever happen after.

At least you die with your karma intact.

Sorry to use terms that are outside of you ideological spectrum, but thats where I am coming form.

Here is something to illustrate the point


www.newsgaming.com...

Originally posted by Corinthas
The concept of dead is lost on you isn't it?

You are takling about giving a rats bottom about where your corpse is after you have leaft it behind to ascend the celestial escalator or whatever happen after.

At least you die with your karma intact.

Sorry to use terms that are outside of you ideological spectrum, but thats where I am coming form.

First off. We don't even know if Karma exists. Secondly, what we do know is that life is our reality. What I do know is that I cannot enjoy my reality if someone is oppressing it or physically harming me. I DO give a rat's ass what happens to me, my friends, family and oddly enough, people on the other side of the globe that I don't know.

If someone wants to passively resist something, fine, that is their choice. Most of the world will choose to stand up for themselves and I vehemently agree with that. MLK and Ghandi were very admirable in their choice to resist the way they did, but both had to die prematurely because of it. Passive resistance has it's place, but I support what people like the Norwegians and Polish did when they were attacked and enslaved by the Nazis for no reason in WWII.

Dont bother replying OK! You click quote and just invent what was said.

So you were arguing tomatoes are pink because there are greyhound busses floating beside Jupiter?

Edit: decided to show the point of failure at least.

you said: Being dead under a tank sounds like total bliss.


i said :You are takling about giving a rats bottom about where your corpse is after you have leaft it ...


the you come up wit this little gem: I DO give a rat's what happens to me, my friends, family and oddly enough, people on the other side of the globe that I don't know.



plese point to the words "happens to me, my friends, family and oddly enough, people on the other side of the globe that I don't know." in what I SAID!


[edit on 16/9/2004 by Corinthas]

Originally posted by Corinthas
Here is something to illustrate the point


www.newsgaming.com...

Sept 12th, a game? people's lives, a game?

That was offensive. Some people I know went up in smoke on 911 back home in NY. Where is pacifism there? The difference is that they did not shoot first. They were just going to work or responding to an emergency. Yes, in a perfect world, it would be great if no one kills. I totally believe that. But this is our reality and we have to deal with things as they happen. I just do not agree with 99% of Junior's Foreign policy.

That being said, I was not for the US going into Iraq, but we had to go into Afgahnistan to take out the sick bastards who killed almost 3000 people that very day.

Originally posted by Corinthas
Dont bother replying OK! You click quote and just invent what was said.

So you were arguing tomatoes are pink because there are greyhound busses floating beside Jupiter?

Edit: decided to show the point of failure at least.

you said: Being dead under a tank sounds like total bliss.


i said :You are takling about giving a rats bottom about where your corpse is after you have leaft it ...


the you come up wit this little gem: I DO give a rat's what happens to me, my friends, family and oddly enough, people on the other side of the globe that I don't know.



plese point to the words "happens to me, my friends, family and oddly enough, people on the other side of the globe that I don't know." in what I SAID!


[edit on 16/9/2004 by Corinthas]

Man, you are daft.

I mentioned that I believe in reality and am not too concerned with Karma as you are. To illustrate the point, Einstein, is why I brought up giving a "rats ass" about my reality. That reality being my life and the well being of others. Wow.

You completely missed the point of the game didn't you?


To be expected really....

The point WAS if you kill a terrorist more will come, so you can't win the game.

Edit: crucial "t" to be added

[edit on 16/9/2004 by Corinthas]