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Please don't hate Servicemen.

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posted on Sep, 8 2004 @ 10:10 PM
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I grew up during vietnam and I protested the WAR not the servicemen! The war was a terrible idea and it has only gotten worse...but I feel the men and women risking their lives are doing their jobs and I certainly feel nothing but admiration for them! It is actually possible to separate the war from the people who fight it!! I just hate like crazy hearing of more deaths. It is starting to get very reminisent of Vietnam.



posted on Sep, 8 2004 @ 11:35 PM
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To everyone on this board who has posted showing support for our troops I want to thank you because you have helped me to understand that there are other ways to be patiotic. I was born in the military, raised in the military and was injured in the military (non-combat related.) My father served 25 years in the U.S. Army including 2 1/2 years in Vietnam. I saw first hand how what the protesters did to him any countless more. After Vietnam his reaction to protesters rubbed off on me and for many years I believed that while people had a "legal" right to protest they did not have a "moral" right to protest anything the military did unless they served. To some point I still believe that and the more I see the arrogance of this administration the more I feel compelled to speak out. Unfortunately we have now the same problems encountered during Vietnam. This is the fact that we have people in office who have never served when it mattered (except Powell) as well as a silent Joint Chief of Staff who are to afraid to ruin their careers. This is also prolific in the military when it comes to almost everyone above a certain rank. The enlisted men and women as well as the Junior Officers know the truth because they, and only they, know what is really going on out on the ground. Thank You again for showing your support for the troops.



posted on Sep, 9 2004 @ 12:39 AM
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Let me tell you the truth. If you do not support the war, you do not support the servicemen. I can tell you from my own experience that the anti-war movement cared not one whit for the US servicemen and more than that they hated us. They cared for only one thing and that was ending the war against the spread of communism in Vietnam.

Even today, because of the lies of the anti-war movement, you cannot get it through people's heads that the US was in Vietnam because of the Southeast Asia Treaty Organization and because the S. Vietnam government asked for assistance from SEATO. South Korea, Australia, New Zealand are among the countries of SEATO who had troops in S. Vietnam.

All of those who prostested the war, regardless of their expressed sentiments, were aiding and abetting the enemy. They have the blood of American servicemen on their hands. I went to a rock concert in Atlanta's Breckenridge Park one night in the Spring of 1969. I had just gotten out of the hospital after a long recovery period from my wounds when the crowd began to shout "HO, HO, HO CHI MINH!" and they unfurled a N. Vietnamese flag. I was astonished to see my countrymen supporting the enemy. Chanting the name of the leader of the North Vietnamese communists and waving the flag of the enemy.

You can't tell me these people supported the troops. They were supporting the enemy and this was not an isolated incident. Don't let anyone fool you. You cannot serve two masters. You are either on the side of your country or you are the enemy. It is the worst kind of duplicity and cowardice that will claim that they support the troops and don't support the war.

I heard their lies and I experienced their hatred and scorn.

And that's the truth!



[edit on 04/9/9 by GradyPhilpott]



posted on Sep, 9 2004 @ 03:48 AM
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As one of the largest military forces in the world, I think we have a duty to use it to insure the freedom of others. We don�t have the luxury of claiming indifference while a ruthless dictator tortures his own citizens and builds his own personal wealth. I don�t think you can honestly say that we should have let Saddam just continue on with what he was doing while we turned a blind eye. I don�t agree with everything the administration has done, but I think comparing US forces to the Third Reich is a bit extreme.

My feelings on the war aside, I have the utmost thanks and gratitude to servicemen, both past and present. They are willing to lay their lives on the line so we can continue to live in peace and without fear.



posted on Sep, 9 2004 @ 04:04 AM
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I don't think this is easy AT ALL.

If a person is fighting, risking their lives it is almost impossible for them to be doing it with out supporting the political objectives that are the reason for going to war. Perhaps you could have a soldier that kept their political blinders on during their time of service for the sake of letting the civilian population make the determination, and only re-engage the political process once their service duties were though. They would have to believe so strongly in their nation's decision making that they temporarily surrendered their voice and still fight with complete devotion. [That sure is a fantasy isn't it] You would almost have to make military service mandatory for everyone to keep it fair.

If a person is trying to make a political change in a decision to fight/continue a war under a political system where the leaders, the warriors, their families and much of the population support it, almost blindly, how do you go about it?

There is no easy built in mechanism for doing this. It is a bit like trying to change direction in mid-air of a jump.

If everyone were totally rational about it, you could simply present the rational arguments as to why you had/have a different opinion and then people would rationally collectively decide what path to take.

People though have incredible emotional attachments all over the place to any number of views and opinions. You/we need a some incredibly intelligent insightful people who have the nation's interest at heart and yet are able to see things in a very dispassionate and analytically precise way. In a word, leaders worthy of our trust.

To me this does not include so-called leaders that pander to corporate interests at the expense of the Nation and the American people.
.



posted on Sep, 14 2004 @ 05:21 PM
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Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
Let me tell you the truth. If you do not support the war, you do not support the servicemen.


Thanks for your interpretation of the "truth", but I'm afraid you are totally and utterly wrong. Opposition to the war was opposition to the politician's decision to GO to war. To equate that with opposing the troops is ludicrous, and to claim to know the minds of those who did oppose going to war is downright presumptuous.

edit : I should probably clarify this by saying I agree that the "bring the troops hope" arguments can indeed counter-productive, but that is not the universal anti-war position. Anti-war can equally mean, "don't go starting and NEW wars", advice the Bush administration should have taken notice of, and hopefully will. Millions of people around the world could see the Iraq war would end up in the mess that it is, and there is nothing "anti-servicemen" in pointing that out.

What is certainly counter-productive is the CLAIM that those who oppose starting wars are therefore against the troops.



[edit on 14/9/04 by muppet]



posted on Sep, 14 2004 @ 05:32 PM
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I do not support the war for many reasons, but I have the utmost respect for all the service men and women risking their lives. A lot of those soldiers could be me or my friends (I'm the right age) and that alone makes have to step back and think. They have a hard and difficult job with what often seems like little support at home. I just wanted to say that I support them.



posted on Sep, 14 2004 @ 07:31 PM
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Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
You are either on the side of your country or you are the enemy.

This is true, but I have a feeling that what you were thinking is that you are either on the side of your government or you are the enemy. Many patriots have no love the government, just the nation and its people.



It is the worst kind of duplicity and cowardice that will claim that they support the troops and don't support the war.

I agree. We went over there to shoot and kill. If you think something is wrong, that the war is not justified, then how can you support the soldier that kills for that war effort? This is so weak. Take a stance or go home, # or get off the pot! You cannot say you don�t support the war but you support those who kill for it. Each and every one of us had a choice to go over there. It was a matter of the hard right over the easy wrong. For a soldier who downt believe it was right, the hard right would be to stand up, to face the scorn of his peers, and say "this is wrong, I won�t do, I object." He would probably be kicked out under conscientious objector laws if he did it the right and respectful way. If he didn�t get kicked out, he would have to choose the hard right again, and sit in jail for what he believed.

A man who will kill so he doesn�t have to face his peers or if he doesn�t believe it is right but does so anyway so that he doesn�t have to go to jail is a murderer.

We all had our decisions to make. None of you make it any easier by helping us justify our un ethical decisions. Many who went chose the easy wrong, as far as their hearts were concerned, and they knew it.

For a soldier to say he was wrong, that killing in that situation was wrong, is very hard. You don�t need to protest the soldiers, to rub dirt in our still fresh wounds, but have the intestinal fortitude to stick with your opinion about the war and the soldiers that kill for it. Any thing else is a mockery. To not take it serious enough to really care is a slap in the face.


I heard their lies and I experienced their hatred and scorn.

I am sorry for you, and God bless you.





Disclaimer: this is not to say that I do or do not support the war effort, I dont think it would be legal for me to say anything regarding that. Just saying how I think many soldiers may feel. Yes, i know, I'm too paranoid.


[edit on 14-9-2004 by cavscout]



posted on Sep, 14 2004 @ 07:43 PM
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is everyone here just ignoring Corinthas's post stating "soldier=terrorist with a job!" ? is that not blatant anti-servicement sentiment?



posted on Sep, 14 2004 @ 08:06 PM
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Originally posted by astroblade
is everyone here just ignoring Corinthas's post stating "soldier=terrorist with a job!" ? is that not blatant anti-servicement sentiment?


The problem is that the Terrorists are not categorised as Soldiers, it's nothing to do with pay. These Terrorists are not soldiers of the governing body of their country.

There are laws about the illegality of joining unsanctioned armies. This is the problem with that Australian guy David Hicks in G-Bay for terrorism. He joined a non-sanctioned army (ie Terrorist group).

If they what to fight a war, fight it on the battle field march your soldiers into ranks and fight head to head.

I wonder how many reports on the news (Aljazeria (spelling)) saying that "X amount of those killed were civilians" actually included the Terrorists in the body count, as they are not legally defined as combatants. Plus pretty much everyone over there has a rifle so where is the line between terrorist and civilian, it's pretty damn hard to see the difference when you are in your Stryker hearing the pings on your armour. You see a rifle, you shoot at the person gripping it.



posted on Sep, 14 2004 @ 09:36 PM
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You cannot support the troops and not support the war effort. It is a paradox. There is not a more impossible position in all the world. There is not a more dishonest positon in all the world. This is the truth and those who fight the war today will learn that lesson for themselves. Those who claim to hold such a position will eternally live in a state of denial and self-deception. Only those who suffer the harm inflicted by those who claim to care for them and not for the cause for which they fight will come to understand fully. My allegiance is with them. Only the self-righteous, second-guessers and arm-chair generals and diplomats will go unscathed and their progeny will suffer for their arrogance.

"The sins of the father...."


[edit on 04/9/14 by GradyPhilpott]



posted on Sep, 14 2004 @ 10:59 PM
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Originally posted by Corinthas
Soldier = terrorist with a job!



Hey, azzwipe, why don't you say that to a soldier's face instead of here where you can hide your fat greasy blob behind your keyboard? Say it to MY face...

You are what is wrong with this country, a do nothing skank who does nothing but find fault with any and everything, and ridicules it because you are so pathetic you can never aspire to anything more than scrubbing toilets in the drunk tank at the local lock up...you aren�t worthy enough to lick the Iraqi sand off a soldiers boots�you make me sick...


To the rest of you who say you "support the troops, but not the war", think of this...when the country is at war, that is the time to support the COUNTRY, because NOT supporting the COUNTRY AT WAR takes away from the war fighting capability of the soldier. That is not supporting them, it is KILLING them!!! The divisiveness carries over to the soldier on the battlefield, causing low morale, which diminishes capability of the unit, causing more causalities. Kerry voted to go to war, then voted against the money that would allow the soldier to FIGHT that war. He basically said, "Here, go fight in this conflict, but you don't get any bullets, food, or body armor..."

Support your COUNTRY at time of war...wait to do your divisive protesting after it is over....

Awaiting the inevitable warning, and damn glad to take it in support of all my fellow Airmen, Sailors, soldiers and Marines.



posted on Sep, 14 2004 @ 11:21 PM
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Originally posted by astroblade
is everyone here just ignoring Corinthas's post stating "soldier=terrorist with a job!" ? is that not blatant anti-servicement sentiment?


Wasn't ignoring it, just formulating the obligatory response to the filthy gutless worm...But thank you for pointing it out!!!


And oh, bye the way, muppet, Thanks for your interpretation of the "truth", but I'm afraid you are totally and utterly wrong. Please reference my above post, and remember that it comes for a service man that has spent two 120-day tours in the AOR since the whole thing began.

Saying one man's opinion is wrong because it differs from yours is quite ludicrous. Just because you say it doesn�t make it fact�.





[edit on 14-9-2004 by Affirmative Reaction]



posted on Sep, 14 2004 @ 11:44 PM
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Affirmative Reaction 100% support from me, If I hadn't gotten discharged I owuld have been off to Afghanistan and most likely then Iraq. All these dendropheliacs (tree ****ing hippies) haven't and most likeyl will never consider actually helping his/her country at a time of need, instead smack the country in the back of the knees.



posted on Sep, 14 2004 @ 11:59 PM
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Originally posted by cavscout

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
You are either on the side of your country or you are the enemy.

This is true, but I have a feeling that what you were thinking is that you are either on the side of your government or you are the enemy. Many patriots have no love the government, just the nation and its people.


Come on CavScout, you were there in Iraq. I'm sure you met fellow soldiers who thought the reason we were there was bogus. What did you think of them when they said this?



posted on Sep, 15 2004 @ 12:01 AM
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Originally posted by Ezekial
Affirmative Reaction 100% support from me, If I hadn't gotten discharged I owuld have been off to Afghanistan and most likely then Iraq. All these dendropheliacs (tree ****ing hippies) haven't and most likeyl will never consider actually helping his/her country at a time of need, instead smack the country in the back of the knees.



Thanks, Ezekial. If I weren't facing mandatory retirement for my injuries, I'd be heading back with my crew right now...seems only those who have served know the score, although a few who did seem to have an ax to grind. I'm sure you know of whom I speak, but we both know the type...UIF a mile thick and usually denied reenlistment...but it's never their fault...


To those who didn't deserve to read my tirade against the whack job that posted earlier, I apologize if you got in the way, but it had to be said.



posted on Sep, 15 2004 @ 12:09 AM
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Affirmative ReactionOh yeah I know those sorts of F'tards. My mate used to train Army recruits (I was Air Force) and every week some 'poor' person would try to get a Med 305 (Perminant) discharge, instead of bowing out to a DOR (Discharge on Request) because they are too much of a puss to face the facts they can't handle being corrected by 'the bad man in the hat'. One guy was even caught hitting his shins with a broom in an attempt to (somehow) give himself shin splints.

Refer to my new thread about Civilians vs. Citizens for more on this topic.



posted on Sep, 15 2004 @ 12:14 AM
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Originally posted by Ezekial
One guy was even caught hitting his shins with a broom in an attempt to (somehow) give himself shin splints.



HAAAAAAAA!!! Now THERE's a bright one, eh? Of course, there are those who are really whacko...I was enlisted when I first came in, and we had a guy who brought a, get this, Samuri sword to basic training with him....guess how long he lasted????



posted on Sep, 15 2004 @ 12:21 AM
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Jeez, thats bad.

This same friend once had a platoon above him (more recruits). One night one guy tried to stab his battle buddy (room mate) with his baonet.



posted on Sep, 15 2004 @ 12:34 AM
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Soldier = terrorist with a job!


Meaning what exactly? My dad was a terrorist when he fought in WW11?
Along with my Grandfather who fought in WW1 defending their country.
Your treading a dangerous path my friend.



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