How did the 'Estonia' sink 1994?, page 5

posted on Dec, 4 2007 @ 11:46 PM

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I wonder what exactly prompted them to even come up with this strange idea of sealing the wreck of ferry Estonia with a concrete sarkofag? Just like Chernobyl! And why is it so important for them to prevent independent divers from investigating the wreck, unless they've got something to hide? "Conspiracy theories on the Estonia tragedy refusing to die"? You bet!

makeitso

posted on Dec, 5 2007 @ 02:09 AM

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reply to post by Hellmutt

Therein lies the rub Hellmutt.
Is there any other sunken ship that has been treated in this manner? I'm not aware of any.

However, there is a precident for using concrete to deal with radiation specifically on ships. Although it wasn't used on sunken ships, a technique using concrete was developed for the decommissioning of nuclear waste transport ships beginning 3 years before the Estonia sank.

Decommissioning the Lepse

17/08-2004
One of the most radioactively dangerous ship in the whole of Northern Europe, the Lepse stores in its hold tonnes of spent nuclear fuel, or SNF much of it damaged and therefore extremely dangerous to move from Russias civilian fleet of nuclear icebreakers.

It was Chernogorov's assertion in his report that, in order to secure the Lepse from posing further radioactive hazards to the Murmansk region, it should simply be filled with a special radiation resistant concrete mixture, leaving the SNF onboard in storage.

In October 1991 Chernogorov managed to plug 208 tonnes of concrete into the fissures between the SNF storage tanks aboard the Lepse.

Even more interesting is that in 1994, (the same year the Estonia Ferry sank), the "special concrete mixture" was used to help decommission former Soviet nuclear reactor training submarines...in Estonia.

In 1994, Lennart Meri, president of the former Soviet Rebulic of Estonia met Russian president Boris Yeltsin in Moscow and they agreed to secure Soviet nuclear reactor submarine compartments in the former 93rd training unit of the Soviet Navy in the Estonian town of Paldiski, 50 kilometers west of Tallinn.

“This mixture and the technology of its usage were worked out based on the experience we gained in 1991 during concrete grouting in the spaces between the tanks of the Lepse. A similar mixture was used in Paldiski,” Chernogorov said. Two surface prototypes of reactor compartments of first and second generation nuclear submarines with functioning nuclear energetic installations were secured and laid up using the concrete mixture.

When the operation was finished in September 1995, Estonian President Meri, standing without remarks on the concrete sarcophagus over one of the reactors, confirmed, more articulately than words could have, that the operation had been a success.

In short, maybe the answer to the mystery could be revealed not by asking why they covered the wreck in concrete, but in asking what type of concrete mix was used, and who supervised the $350 million dollar operation.

So this begs the question, can anyone find records describing the type of concrete used to encase the Estonia Ferry, and who did it?

[edit on 12/5/07 by makeitso]

mirageofdeceit

posted on Dec, 5 2007 @ 06:13 PM

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Interesting topic!! 13 years and counting, and they're still questioning the sinking - incredible!

From Page 3:

Is saying that there was no explosion ON BOARD just semantics?

What led them to believe there was, then was not, an explosion on board at all?

If there was an explosion outside the ship, but under the water, then it is conceivable that this created a void which caused the ferry to roll over. This would certainly explain why it sank so fast with so many lives lost.

As for sealing it in concrete: when did this occur??? More worryingly - why??

Jim_Kraken

posted on Dec, 5 2007 @ 06:20 PM

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reply to post by mirageofdeceit

I'll bet the Estonia was carrying smuggled Russian nukes or plutonium or something to the Middle East...Israel didn't like it so they sank her.

Hellmutt

posted on Dec, 9 2007 @ 05:36 PM

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Here's Estonia's Mayday call. Subtitled.

PsykoOps

posted on Dec, 9 2007 @ 05:40 PM

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reply to post by makeitso

Either I'm losing my memory or it never went trough. As I remember it happening it was something they wanted to do right away after the accident but because of public scrutiny they dropped the idea.

makeitso

posted on Dec, 10 2007 @ 12:43 PM

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Originally posted by PsykoOps
reply to post by makeitso

Either I'm losing my memory or it never went trough. As I remember it happening it was something they wanted to do right away after the accident but because of public scrutiny they dropped the idea.

Its my understanding that Smit Tak salvage company spent $350 million in a failed attempt to cover the wreck with stones and concrete. In 1996 they were ordered to stop.

Skeptik101

posted on Dec, 12 2007 @ 11:41 AM

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So much of our history is wrong, you can even question the story of the sinking of the titanic, Channel five did a good documentary on that last night, in which they sent divers to inspect the ruins of the titanics sister ship.

It could have been a insurance scam. It would not surpise me at all if this also turned out to be true

Hellmutt

posted on Jan, 12 2008 @ 02:58 PM

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New "evidence"

There's a new explaination on how and why the ferry Estonia sank. There were no explosions involved, apparently. But they were sailing too fast, and they made a wrong fatal maneuver which caused her to capsize. By combining "scientists" and "the world's most advanced computer program of its kind", they hope to now bury the conspiracy talks once and for all. Who can argue with that?

Scientists w/incredibly advanced computer program
vs.

Ridiculously looking conspiracy theorists

= 1-0

Spiegel Online: Simulating a Fatal Turn: Scientists Unveil Cause of Estonia Ferry Disaster

The research team's calculations, which it obtained using ROLLS, the world's foremost simulation program for shipping disasters, already contradict speculation that the Baltic Sea disaster may have been caused by explosives. Instead, they suggest that speed, wave conditions and a turning maneuver sealed the fate of the Estonia.

[---]

Some attributed the supposed explosion to rumors that a truck carrying nuclear material was on board, or that the vessel had been carrying secret weapons shipments for Swedish intelligence. According to these theories, the Estonia was deliberately sunk to avoid detection of the illicit cargo by Swedish customs officials.

[---]

When the Estonia turned to portside, the centrifugal force produced by the ship's curving motion pushed the water in the opposite direction. As a result, the ship's list, instead of being reduced by the emergency maneuver, was in fact increased by the force that now pushed all the seawater on the deck against the right side of the vessel.

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.

They claim it was the crew's fault and not a conspiracy at all...

Hellmutt

posted on Jan, 12 2008 @ 03:06 PM

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Here is what they believe happened:

Hellmutt

posted on May, 18 2008 @ 01:11 AM

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Investigator: Not Enough Evidence - Dive Again

An Estonia investigator says that more divings are necessary to the wreck of Estonia. He says there's "not enough evidence" to prove that the most current official conclusion to the cause of the accident is true. More speculative theories should be considered...

svt.se: Utredare: Dyk igen vid Estonia (17 may 2008 - in Swedish...)

Hellmutt

posted on May, 19 2008 @ 06:34 PM

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More links to the latest Estonia-bump:

Gefle Dagblad: Utredare: Dyk igen vid Estonia (in Swedish...)

Dagens Nyheter: Utredare: Dyk igen vid Estonia (in Swedish...)

Svenska Dagbladet: Utredare: Dyk igen vid Estonia (in Swedish...)

Arbetarbladet: Utredare: Dyk igen vid Estonia (in Swedish...)

Metro Sverige: Utredare: Dyk igen vid Estonia (in Swedish...)

NRK: Estonia-forliset fortsatt uoppklart (in Norwegian...)

Hellmutt

posted on May, 24 2008 @ 10:03 PM

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Radio traffic between the rescue ships. Part one is the same audio as in the video posted above in another post. The audio in part 2 and 3 has not been posted yet in this thread.

Estonias Mayday call, part 1:

Estonias Mayday call, part 2:

Estonias Mayday call, part 3:

Hellmutt

posted on Jun, 1 2008 @ 12:17 PM

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The Moon Was Shining

An eyewitness was a no less than a current member of the Swedish parliament.

Time: How to Survive A Disaster

May. 29, 2008

Kent Härstedt, now a member of Sweden's Parliament, was then a 29-year-old passenger. That night he was hanging out in one of the ship's bars, with about 50 other passengers. "There was karaoke music," he recalls. "Everybody was laughing and singing." But just after 1 a.m., the Estonia suddenly listed starboard 30°, hurling passengers, vending machines and flowerpots across its passageways. In the bar, almost everyone fell violently against the side of the boat. Härstedt managed to grab on to the iron bar railing and hold on, hanging above everyone else.

"In just one second, everything went from a loud, happy, wonderful moment to total silence. Every brain, I guess, was working like a computer trying to realize what had happened," he says. Then came the screaming and crying. People had been badly hurt in the fall, and the tilt of the ship made it extremely difficult to move.

[---]

Out on the deck, the ship's lights were on, and the moon was shining. The full range of human capacities was on display. Incredibly, one man stood to the side, smoking a cigarette, Härstedt remembers. Most people strained to hold on to the rolling ship and, at the same time, to look for life jackets and lifeboats. British passenger Paul Barney remembers groups of people standing still like statues.

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.

Hellmutt

posted on Jun, 19 2008 @ 12:16 AM

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Someone posted this on Youtube just now. It contains eyewitness stories as well as a reconstruction of the disaster. To me it looks like it's aiming to support the official story, and I don't agree with some of their "conclusions". But anyway... have a look. There are five parts.

Part 1:

Part 2:

Part 3:

Part 4:

Part 5:

Hellmutt

posted on Jun, 22 2008 @ 12:07 AM

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reply to post by Hellmutt

Radio traffic between the rescue ships. I posted parts 1, 2 & 3 in the post above. And now, part 4 has been uploaded to Youtube. The poster says part 5 is coming later, and it will be the last part. Audio in different languages, subtitled in english like the others.

Part 4:

Hellmutt

posted on Jun, 24 2008 @ 12:00 AM

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Part 5 has been posted to Youtube. The poster says there will be a part 6 as well.

Estonia's mayday call, Part 5

Hellmutt

posted on Jun, 24 2008 @ 01:23 AM

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Here is the last part

Estonia's mayday call, part 6

Hellmutt

posted on Jul, 31 2008 @ 04:28 AM

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Radio communication between the Swedish icebreaker "Ale" and the german ship "Fair Play" in August 1997. The german ship wanted to dive to the wreck of Estonia, and the swedes wouldn't let them. This was in international waters! The communcation between the ships are in (broken) english. They had no right to prevent them from diving, imo.

Hellmutt

posted on Sep, 13 2008 @ 05:18 AM

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Conditions

Here's some footage from the rescue operation. Video only, no audio. You can see how the conditions were at the time of the disaster. On September 28, it will be 14 years ago.

Part 1:

Part 2:

Part 3: