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Topic started on 6-9-2004 @ 08:30 PM by Hellmutt
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What really happened? The official "truth" might be wrong. I've heard different theories and stories (as one would expect, I guess). 852 people
died in that disaster. Soon it will be its 10th year "anniversary" Sept.28th)...
I personally read an article in a magazine about the M/S Estonia 14 days before the disaster. In that article they pointed out a possible
disaster-scenario where some material was being smuggled on board (from Estonia to Sweden). This material however, would explode if it gets in contact
with water. This is not science-fiction. The material is real (if I could only remember what it was...), and they claim that smuggling of this
material did occure on that ship. I also heard rumours that they (the customs) were planning a raid on Estonia when she would arrive the port of
Stockholm, Sweden. And that somebody on Estonia (crew?) found out about it. Then maybe they decided to dump the cargo into the sea, despite the heavy
weather. Maybe they opened the bow door visor and tried to dump a car or truck overboard, and the material exploded on contact with the water? Many
witnessreports does not fit with the official story. Why were they so eager to seal the Estonia in concrete on the seafloor ASAP after the disaster?
This whole so-called "investigation" smells like a big cover-up to me...
image source: http://www.balticsworldwide.com/images/mseesti.jpg
 From: Getting To The Bottom
The Baltic Sea ferry Estonia, which took 852 people to their graves when it sank in 1994, experienced an explosion on board at some point in its
tortured existence, according to diver F. Gregg Bemis Jr. of Santa Fe.
Relying on tests done on two metal samples taken from the hull, Bemis said recently an explosion occurred aboard the 57-ton vessel in the vicinity
of the starboard forward bulkhead. Bemis could not say for sure when or why the explosion occurred, whether before or after its Sept. 28, 1994,
sinking. But, he said the explosion took place at or near the bow door visor, which an official trilateral commission determined opened up in heavy
seas and caused the ship to sink.  From: SOME OUTSTANDING QUESTIONS ABOUT THE M/S ESTONIA
Why did the Estonia sink so fast?
This question is not answered at all in the official Final Report. As stated in the introduction the vessel allegedly sank between 01.14/01.15 and
01.51/01.52 hrs due to water on the car deck. It is also suggested that water entered the deck house through broken windows at deck 4 and 5, when the
ship listed. This water allegedly flowed through the gas tight (sic) car deck ceiling (deck 4) down into the car deck space, and the water also flowed
through the watertight (sic) car deck 2 and filled the 12 watertight compartments below the car deck, so that the ship actually could sink. As it is
impossible that water flows through gas tight and watertight decks, the sinking process suggested by the Final Report is simply impossible.
From: The impossible Sinking of the 'Estonia'
The fundamental deficiency of the Final report issued 1997 into the sinking of the 'Estonia' is that it does not explain how and why the ferry
actually sank as a result of the published proximate cause of accident - defect locks securing the visor protecting the ramp of the forward opening in
the superstructure.
The Commission censored the fact that the ferry floated on its undamaged watertight hull according to the principle of buoyancy of Archimedes
developed circa 252 BC and that sinking could only have started, when (or if) the hull started to fill up with water. The Commission never explained
how the undamaged hull - 14 watertight compartments - were filled with water so that the ferry could sink. The now infamous Final report into the
sinking does not mention or investigate watertight integrity, watertight doors, bilge pumps and bilge alarms in the hull preventing
sinking.
From: The Sinking of the MS Estonia: A Chronology of the
Disaster
While investigators concluded that a badly designed bow door was the primary cause of the accident, the events of that fateful night are still not
fully known. They probably never will be. Too many of the principles involved, including all the officers on the bridge, did not live to tell their
versions of what happened. Over the coming years, the story of the Estonia is likely to take on a life of its own. Theories on why it sank-like one
already circulating, that the ship hit a Russian sub-are likely to become even more varied and farfetched. Like with the assassination of John F.
Kennedy and the sinking of the Titanic, so many aspects of the Estonia tragedy are probably destined to become the stuff of legend and
fantasy.
[edit on 2004/11/7 by Hellmutt]
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reply posted on 27-9-2004 @ 05:22 PM by Hellmutt
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It´s 10 years ago it happened (exactly 10 years at the time of this posting).
It was the worst naval disaster in Europe since WWII.
First mayday was sent out 01:15 local time, 01:50 the ship was gone...
I´ve just seen on the news that the families of those who died demands a new investigation.
[edit on 2004/11/7 by Hellmutt]
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reply posted on 27-9-2004 @ 05:45 PM by Hellmutt
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From: AP Wire 09-26-2004 Ferry Sinking Haunts Finland Decade
Later
The first Finnish rescue helicopter didn't arrive on the scene about 40 miles off the coast until an hour and 40 minutes after the first distress
call.
Its crew was met by a heart-stopping sight - hundreds of life vests, many of them empty but some holding up the dead, and dozens of rafts, some
overturned, tossing about in the waves as their reflectors blinked in the blackness.
"It felt like you were in the middle of a movie set. We asked ourselves: 'Is this real? Is this even possible?'" recalled Matti Rytkonen, a rescue
helicopter pilot.
***
The ship's German builder, Meyer shipyard, blamed poor maintenance and improper modifications to the bow locks, a finding rejected by the commission.
Russian news media claimed the ship was blown up as part of a vendetta between drug-smuggling gangs.
Bereaved relatives of the 500 Swedes who died failed to persuade their government to refloat the ferry from the sea bed some 260 feet down so the
disaster could be further investigated.
I am rather disturbed at the lack of support for this thread.What´s going on? Is it a touchy subject? I know there are many scandinavians here on
ATS...
[edit on 2004/11/7 by Hellmutt]
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reply posted on 28-9-2004 @ 07:30 AM by Hellmutt
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From: Ten years since the Estonia catastrophe
Most of the people who survived the catastrophe were men between the ages of 20 and 44. Only 26 of the 137 survivors were women. Six Norwegians died.
A Norwegian 12-year-old boy was the only child who survived the disaster.
[edit on 2004/11/7 by Hellmutt]
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reply posted on 2-3-2005 @ 07:05 PM by Hellmutt
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They are reopening the Estonia investigation! 
Estonian authorities announced today they are reopening the case. New information has surfaced. They say the Estonia was used to smuggle russian
military equipment/material to Sweden. This information made the swedish PM and politicians from Estonia to demand a new investigation.
TV2 Nettavisen: Gransker Estonia-ulykken paa nytt (in norwegian)
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reply posted on 3-3-2005 @ 04:17 AM by paperplane_uk
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Do you know if she foundered or capsized??? Water on car decks is very dangerous as it itroduces a free surface that massivly effects the transverse
stability of the vessel (ever tried carrying a large tray filled to the brim with water without spilling some? - same principle!) the herald of free
enterprise capsized after the front doors were left open in exactly this manner.
Edited to correct spelling
[edit on 3-3-2005 by paperplane_uk]
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reply posted on 3-3-2005 @ 06:16 AM by The Todd
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It think it was a bit weird that the Swedish goverment was so determend to not get a independent investigation. There is a reporter Jutta Rabe that
has tried to investigate the ship but has been stoped because the ship is now a burial site (or something like that)
Anyway Jutta Rabe has made a movie, not a documantary, called Baltic Storm, it's about what she thinks happed. I havent seen it but i think it is a
terrorist attack and they blow of the front of the ship.
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reply posted on 14-5-2005 @ 10:21 PM by Hellmutt
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I just had to add this...
M-S Estonia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The German journalist Jutta Rabe also decided to ignore the imposed sanctity to make her own investigations, mainly based on conspiracy theories. Her
investigations resulted in the motion picture Baltic Storm, which portrays the Russian secret service as being responsible for the sinking. The plot
portrays the Swedish government as being responsible for using the ship to covertly transport Russian high-tech components to the United States. The
story is unveiled by a young female journalist, not unlike Ms. Rabe herself.
In Autumn 2004 a scandal erupted in Swedish media after a revelation made by retired customs officer that about the time of the accident in 1994 M/S
Estonia has been used by Swedish military intelligence to bring in electronic equipment illegally acquired in Estonia from Russian Army (former units
of USSR Baltic Military District). Swedish court investigator Johan Hirschfeldt later confirmed that the military intelligence indeed used M/S Estonia
in September 1994 for bringing in secret military equipment, but the content of the shipment will remain classified for 70 years, thus adding
up arguments to possible conspiracy theories.
Estonia Litigation Association
Please help us expose the lies of the official cover-up behind the sinking of Estonia. This passenger ferry was used for smuggling operations of
military contraband, approved and aided by the highest levels of the Swedish government.
The covert smuggling of Soviet weaponry turned the passenger ferry Estonia into a military target, using more than 1,000 innocent lives as human
shields.
There were 146 survivors on the original rescue lists from which nine names were later deleted. These nine individuals, all Estonian members of the
crew, were apparently abducted through an act of "enforced disappearance."
On the very day Estonia sank, NATO's 10-day "Baltic Sea naval exercises" began with the militaries of 10 NATO allies and 10 Partnership for Peace
nations, including Sweden, Finland, and the Baltic states. 14 of the 20 nations involved provided ships and aircraft for the "Cooperative Venture"
exercise, which was a "peacekeeping, humanitarian and search and rescue operation" exercise. There has been, however, no discussion of NATO's role
in or lack of response to the sinking of Estonia.
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reply posted on 3-6-2005 @ 10:12 PM by Hellmutt
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Why do we still not know what really happened to MS Estonia that night in 1994? I found this interesting page about the coverup of the Estonia
accident. Take a look.
Preamble 2004 to the English Edition of Katastrofutredning
The conspirators - because it was a conspiracy from the start, the first day - were satisfied. They thought they had managed to cover up the Truth.
Many of the conspirators were given high offices in the Swedish and Estonian administrations, where they today regularly praise the work of the
Commission and the content of the Final report and ridicule the few professional marine investigators and journalists, who continue to research the
accident with the aim to improve safety at sea.
These persons of the investigation are all charlatans. But, and this is sad, they are 'respectable' in Swedish society today. To be
respectable in Sweden today is like being a good party man in a communist state - you repeat the official policy without own thinking. It is a virtue
in today's Sweden and Finland and Estonia.
The Final report (5) is official party policy in Sweden and Estonia today - regardless what party governs. And a large majority of the public plays
along - it has a feeling for what Truth (or Lie) the government wants to adhere to.
There are also several wellknown individuals named on that page...
In my previous post I quoted this, but I forgot to put some stuff in bold. Quoting it again as it is quite an eye-opener.
Estonia Litigation Association
On the very day Estonia sank, NATO's 10-day "Baltic Sea naval exercises" began with the militaries of 10 NATO allies and 10 Partnership for
Peace nations, including Sweden, Finland, and the Baltic states. 14 of the 20 nations involved provided ships and aircraft for the "Cooperative
Venture" exercise, which was a "peacekeeping, humanitarian and search and rescue operation" exercise. There has been, however, no
discussion of NATO's role in or lack of response to the sinking of Estonia.
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reply posted on 3-6-2005 @ 11:17 PM by PsykoOps
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Cant remember where but when they suggested to cover the hull with congrete, information (or just a rumor) came out that made it seem like a stolen
russian suitcase nuke was onboard. That would explain many strange happenings with this disaster. I'm lucky enough not to have lost any friends or
relatives there but many finns weren't as lucky.
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reply posted on 6-6-2005 @ 06:28 AM by djohnsto77
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Sounds like it could have been a rare metal such as elemental sodium that is used in some Russian nuclear reactors that reacts explosively with water.
Less likely, but I guess possible, some radioactive substance that when inundated with water as a moderator set off a nuclear explosion.
Interesting article Hellmutt!
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reply posted on 6-6-2005 @ 06:57 AM by Northern Norway
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Originally posted by Hellmutt
What really happened? The official "truth" might be wrong. I?ve heard different theories and stories (as one would expect, I guess). 852 people died
in that disaster. Soon it will be its 10th year "anniversary" Sept.28th)...
I personally read an article in a magazine about the M/S Estonia 14 days before the disaster. In that article they pointed out a possible
disaster-scenario where some material was being smuggled on board (from Estonia to Sweden). This material however, would explode if it gets in contact
with water. This is not science-fiction. The material is real (if I could only remember what it was...), and they claim that smuggling of this
material did occure on that ship. I also heard rumours that they (the customs) were planning a raid on Estonia when she would arrive the port of
Stockholm, Sweden. And that somebody on Estonia (crew?) found out about it. Then maybe they decided to dump the cargo into the sea, despite the heavy
weather. Maybe they opened the bow door visor and tried to dump a car or truck overboard, and the material exploded on contact with the water?
Do you know if the investigators found any residue from any explosives on the bow doors? (If they looked for it at all)
//ed to pare down quote, per member//
[edit on 8-6-2005 by DontTreadOnMe]
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reply posted on 7-6-2005 @ 10:21 AM by Hellmutt
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9 Estonian crewmember disappeared from the list of survivors. Among them was one of the captains and the ship's chief engineer. At the same time two
planes carrying 9 unregistered passengers left Stockholm. Documents show that those two flights were paid by the U.S. Embassy in Stockholm.
epunkt146
'U.S. enforced disappearances from Sweden are nothing new, according to Swedish journalist Sven Anér. More than 10 years ago, on Sept. 28, 1994,
nine Estonian survivors from the Estonia ferry disaster "disappeared" in a similar manner.
The day after the sinking, 9 crew members were removed from the lists of 146 reported survivors as a Gulfstream 4 (Reg. N971L), and a Boeing 727-200
(Reg. VR-CLM), left Stockholm's Arlanda airport carrying 4 and 5 unregistered passengers each. Anér has the documents from the airport's archive
that show that the fees for the two airplanes were paid by the U.S. Embassy in Stockholm.
Among those who disappeared after having been on the survivor lists from Estonia were one of captains, Avo Piht, and the ship's chief
engineer, Lembit Leiger. Piht and Leiger would be key witnesses as to the ship's seaworthiness, its cargo, and causes of its mysterious sinking,
which took 852 lives.'
Click the link to read the full article which is very detailed and interesting...
[edit on 2005/6/7 by Hellmutt]
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reply posted on 7-6-2005 @ 10:13 PM by Hellmutt
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This is an interesting page, very detailed. It is from a report by The Independent Fact Group. First a quote to explain what The Independent Fact
Group is all about.
The Independent Fact Group
The Independent Fact Group was originally formed to clear up the many question marks about the MV Estonia disaster, in a structured and methodical
manner. There has been considerable speculation concerning the efforts of the Joint Accident Investigation Commission (JAIC) and the political,
legal and media treatment of the accident and its tragic consequences.
The aim is to give those in authority an opportunity, based on the facts of the case, to decide to review this matter, with a view to further action.
Our efforts also enable the media and the general public to decide on the basis of the objective information which is available concerning the
accident, and the conclusions to be drawn from a technical and civic perspective.
The overall objective is the setting up of a new investigation of the accident which can describe the course of the accident in detail, and its
causes, with subsequent assessment of the moral and legal responsibilities, where this is feasible. We are motivated by the belief that a properly
conducted investigation will contribute to maritime safety and by our concern for Sweden's reputation as a nation which upholds safety at sea and the
rule of law.
Excerpts from the report is quoted below. Please click on the link provided to see the full report. There are also plots and maps on that page. There
were two unidentified ships on the scene of the "accident" and two other liners which where in the area both appeared to have had some navigation
malfunctions around 23:30.
M-V Estonia - the last voyage
The aim with this report is to show that the route concluded by JAIC is incorrect. The JAIC route was used to support their scenario on how M/V
Estonia could loose her visor. This report will reveal the sloppy investigation work performed by JAIC and further more call for a new investigation
of the disaster.
The information and conclusions in this report is based on collection of material from a number of sources, such as the Joint Accident Investigation
Commission (JAIC), the German Group of Experts representing the Meyer Ship Yard (GGE), the archives at Swedish Board of Accident Investigation (SHK),
Swedish National Maritime Administration (SNMA), as well as other independent information and witness statements.
Interesting to note is the fact that both Silja Europe and Mariella had some navigation malfunctions around 23.30, or they had to alter their
course by some other unknown reason.
Both JAIC and GGE found two unidentified ships on the scene of the accident. It is likely to believe that they are the same ships that follow
close to the M/V Estonia route, and slow down at the time of the disaster.
And btw, click here to see an interesting picture of a hole in the hull below the water line.
("Damage and a clear hole in the hull on the port side, aft the bulbous bow. This picture is from a video recording of the MV Estonia hull")
The Independent Fact Group
Our thoughts stay with all victims, relatives and friends, but also with all survivors and those that continue their work for the truth to be
revealed.
We also urge journalists and media to seriously start the enlightment of all facts that prove the JAIC investigation to be wrong.
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reply posted on 15-7-2005 @ 09:41 PM by starviego
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The German magazine "Spiegal" did a good series on the disastor. It seems there were also strange 'crisis' drills being done onboard before the
ship took off.
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reply posted on 16-7-2005 @ 12:27 AM by DEEZNUTZ
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I think the big conspiracy is that the Estonia was inspected 12 hours prior to the voyage and signs of fatigue were noted on the hinges and the
locking clamps but the ship was given clearance to proceed and you all know the rest of the story. I saw this on a documentary on Discovery, and
I've also work on freighters and we've been given clearance to proceed with backup steering as the main steering pumps were down and of course we
promised to have them going as soon as possible. Other ships have had cracks in the hull and been allowed to take a small load to where the drydock
was in order to pay for the trip.
I think the reason the investigation was so quick and chaotic was that the government wanted to hide their role in it and absolve themselves of
billions of dollars in liability and condemnation throughout the world. However it's common practice all over the world.
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reply posted on 6-8-2005 @ 10:28 PM by Hellmutt
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A false/wrong official report, a bunch of lies and massive coverups. What are they hiding and why are they hiding it?
Impossible Visor Scenario:
"In this report, the Independent Fact Group shows that JAIC's scenario regarding the loss of the visor, described in the final report was
impossible."
The Independent Fact Group: Impossible Visor Scenario (html, an excerpt)
Download the complete report "Impossible visor scenario" (1100 K pdf)
Sinking due to water on the car deck not possible
"The official Explanation/Lie - slow Sinking due to Water on the Car Deck in the Superstructure - is not possible!"
The biggest Fraud in Maritime History - 13 Lies about the Accident by the Investigation Commission
Explosion(s)
 BBC: New clue to Estonia sinking
New evidence has been put forward suggesting that the Estonia ferry, which sank six years ago, was damaged by an explosion.
A representative of survivors and victims' families, who are pressing for a criminal investigation into the sinking of the ferry, said three separate
sets of tests had been carried out on metal fragments recovered from the wreck by divers. He said that distortion in the metal showed there had been
an explosion.
An official report in 1997 made no mention of an explosion. It said the ship's bow door, which had been missing a bolt, had been torn off in heavy
seas.
"To us, it's now clear without a doubt that this hole has been caused by a detonation. There is no other possibility" Please visit the link provided for the complete story.
Bomb blamed for sinking of the 'Estonia'?
First published at www.independent.co.uk 001217
According to the shipyard's own investigation, nine survivors – all of whom were in different parts of the ship – heard a loud bang at about 1am,
just before the ship sank.
Jutta Rabe, a German television producer who organised the dive to collect the samples, said: "The Swedish shipping administration and the president
of the Estonia shipping line had described bomb threats to the ship to journalists just after it sank.
"A young Estonian shipping cadet, Paavo Pruul, who was on watch on the training ship Linda in Tallinn harbour, heard radio messages between the
harbour master and the Estonia," she said. "They discussed a bomb search and how they had been unable to find anything."
[---]
Ms Rabe and Greg Bemis, an American millionaire, offered to organise a $200,000 dive on the Estonia in search of new evidence.
Ms Rabe hopes that the results of her investigation – as well as the tests on the metal samples by the Material Testing Laboratory of the State of
Brandenburg, the DN Institute for Materials Testing and Material Engineering in Clausthal-Zellerfeld, Germany, and the Southwest Research institute in
San Antonio, Texas – will force a reopening of the inquiry.
Although the wreck is in international waters, the Swedish, Estonian and Finnish governments have banned dives at the site. Sweden has issued arrest
warrants for Ms Rabe and Mr Bemis. Brian Braidwood, a former Royal Navy officer, diver and explosives expert, said the laboratory results "provide
indisputable proof that the samples were exposed to the effects of an explosion." Mr Braidwood now works for the insurance and shipping industry and
was retained by Meyer Werft. He says the explosion must have been deliberate and that it happened just before the ship sank. Please visit the link provided for the complete story.
Other interesting links:
Chapter 6 Conspiracy and other Theories
UNTRUE TESTIMONIES (Proven untrue Testimonies by Estonian Crewmembers)
www10.antenna.nl..." target="_blank" class="postlink">Estonia: Sunk due to n-cargo? (WISE)
"ESTONIA" FERRIED SOVIET WEAPONS - Swedish Customs *PIC*
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reply posted on 12-10-2005 @ 02:16 PM by Hellmutt
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This picture is taken on 23/08/2001. On the picture you see (from the left): Jindra Böhm, Jutta Rabe, Jakob Olszewski - Photo: © Marcin
Jamkowski
The bandle role was tied to Estonia's ramp 75 metres under the surface by Jakob Olszewski - Photo: © Slawek Packo
Source: Jutta Rabe's second Estonia expedition.
[edit on 2006/4/27 by Hellmutt]
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reply posted on 13-10-2005 @ 12:38 PM by Long Lance
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strange, now if you come up with a fabricated accident in a location starting with K i'll be scared..
www.abovetopsecret.com...
ferry deck is the 10th (on Estonia). water on this deck results in quick capsize, while the ship usualy remains AFLOAT due to trapped air, belly up
for many hours, (another ship performed that kind of barrel roll a few years before Estonia, fortunately, which much less lives being lost in the
process. that other ship was later found cut up on the bottom btw, while the investiaging journalists were being shadowed by german navy)
let me ask you one question: are you content with the 'burial site' explanation given by the states? if not, the next one would be: why are they
doing this?
anyway, i think we won't hear more on the matter unless somebody with guts gets to command a fleet strong enough to blow any approaching man-o-war
out of the water, these are international waters, they couldn't even complain, one warning shot, then 2 missiles amidships, carrier aviation would
help too, just in case somebody tries an airstrike in retailiation, but i'm dreaming
the EU states protect those villains who killed hundreds of people, they deserve that and much more.
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reply posted on 30-10-2005 @ 08:43 PM by Hellmutt
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There are two questions I would really like to have answered, but I guess I never will...
1. Why didn´t any of the many ships and planes from NATO's "peacekeeping, humanitarian and search and rescue operation exercise" assist
Estonia´s survivors? Many survivors froze to death or drowned because it took so long before they were rescued...
2. Who were these two unidentified ships and what were they doing?
M-V Estonia - the last voyage
Both JAIC and GGE found two unidentified ships on the scene of the accident. It is likely to believe that they are the same ships that follow close to
the M/V Estonia route, and slow down at the time of the disaster.
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