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How did the 'Estonia' sink 1994?

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posted on Dec, 20 2006 @ 04:12 PM
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I finally found an english article. From Finland:



Helsingin Sanomat: New M/S Estonia report: military technology carried on doomed ship

20.12.2006



The Estonia Commission of the Estonian Parliament reported on Tuesday that military goods were transported on the ship twice in September 1994 shortly before it sank while en route from Tallinn to Stockholm, killing 852 people on board.

According to Sweden’s Minister of Defence Mikael Odenberg, Sweden is willing to hand over all possible material concerning the Estonia accident to the Estonians. "We have no reason or desire to withhold information from the Estonians", he said on Tuesday. However, Sweden is opposed to any new investigations into the disaster. "Each report has a tendency to create demands for new reports", Odenberg said.

There is still intense discussion going on in Estonia over various theories linked with the disaster. Even now, one of the six members of the commission submitted a dissenting opinion, expressing the view that the Estonia was deliberately sunk over the clandestine weapons transport.

A majority of the group also called on the government to continue to search for people who had been declared missing, but who may have survived the sinking; there is widespread belief in Estonia that such people exist.

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.

Those "missing persons" is probably the nine Estonian crewmembers who were reportedly picked up by a helicopter and later reported as missing...




posted on Dec, 20 2006 @ 08:52 PM
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Originally posted by jmlima
Insurance companies are large, extremely powerful companies. Usually they won the politians, not the other way around. If you have tried to obtain any large compensation from an insurance companies you know what I'm talking about, how many times do they pay without first going through the courts of law?

How many times do they murder 900 people without first going through the courts of law? Obviously we are dealing with a lawless bunch. Who's behind the big insurance companies? Who's behind all big business? The New World Order. I don't remember the insurance companies howling with outrage after 911. Oh no, they paid up. Quickly. Quietly. But of course they will be compensated down the line. Cuz only the little people pay taxes.


You can bet the victim's families were paid-off. Probably had to sign non-disclosure statements, though.


ps
Hellmut, thanks for the update. Looks like the official story is officially falling apart.

[edit on 20-12-2006 by starviego]



posted on Dec, 23 2006 @ 12:25 PM
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The Estonia Commission of the Estonian Parliament reported on Tuesday that military goods were transported on the ship twice in September 1994 shortly before it sank while en route from Tallinn to Stockholm, killing 852 people on board.

Helsingin Sanomat: New M/S Estonia report: military technology carried on doomed ship




Something bothers me about this. A minor detail was left out of that news article. What is it? Something's missing.

Oh. There's no link to the report. Perhaps I can find it.

{Sleep Mode: Disabled}
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The final report (pdf)

From The Parliament of Estonia; Select, Investigation, Problem Committee

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posted on Dec, 23 2006 @ 05:48 PM
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If you'll overlook the fun I was having while making the post above, you may have gone on to look at the Parliment investigation Report. But if not, here are a few of the more interesting points in the report.

One of the the first things I noticed While reading the report was that the committee interviewed Vassili Voronin. This is notable because he is Alexander Veronin's son. They were both on the ferry the day it sank. Alexander is reported to have a briefcase handcuffed to himself while he was on the ferry. Some of that research has already been posted by Hellmutt.

The next thing that caught my eye was the listing of Estonian items that may have been of interest to 3rd parties.

Space electronics
High technology directing and surveillance devices (like underwater radio buoys, radars)
Anti-aircraft complexes (with marking S300)
Electronic control systems
Strategic missile systems
Russian space electronics that enabled military reconnaissance with infra-red cameras
Precious nonferrous metals & different rare earth metals. Several such shipments were radioactive
The so-called nuclear briefcases

Also interesting was this information:


According to the former chief of Swedish Military Intelligence MUST Major General Erik Rosander, a Volvo pickup vehicle was sent to Estonia that transported the goods to Stockholm on ferry Estonia in 14 September 1994. During the operation it turned out in Estonia that it was not possible to transport the electronics and the documents to Sweden in one shipment, therefore a week later, on the ferry Estonia that departed from Tallinn on 19 September another shipment with a Volkswagen van took place which according to Erik Rosander brought all materials to Sweden.


We seem to have verification from Swedish intelligence that the ferry was used to transport "high" technology more than once because they could not get it all in one shipment. The shipments were about a week apart. 14-09-94 and 19-09-94. It seems notable that the ferry sank the very next week on 27-09-94.

It doesn't seem illogical to "guess" that there was a third shipment, and that it was on the day of the sinking.

So I am wondering which of the above items could have been worth someone sinking the ferry to prevent a technology transfer, or which one may cause an explosion capable of sinking the ship. Remember, it would have to be something that would cause them to encase the ferry in cement instead of raising it to the surface.

[edit on 12/23/06 by makeitso]



posted on Dec, 24 2006 @ 05:00 PM
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Thanks for the link to the report, makeitso. They must have just translated it from estonian to english. Good work!



posted on Dec, 25 2006 @ 11:13 PM
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Originally posted by anon_87154
This anonymous post is in response to ATS thread: How did the 'Estonia' sink 1994?

More than 100 survived, and some of them should have noticed when the report said Estonia "started to sink 1:14 and disappeared 1:50", when in fact the ferry Estonia started to sink at 1:05 and was gone 1:25?? Why hide this fact?

I don't know if any of the survivors noticed or looked at the clock when it happened. I haven't studied the eyewitness reports so much, to be honest.

***

Here's a video I found on YouTube. MS Estonia.


YouTube: MS Estonia Estline Ferry

Short parts from original footage of the Estonia Ferry shortly before it sank in the Baltic Sea in the 28th of september 1994.




[edit on 2006/12/25 by Hellmutt]



posted on Jan, 8 2007 @ 12:09 AM
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Originally posted by Hellmutt

Sweden's foreign minister Carl Bildt does not want to raise the wreck of Estonia. He says that the constant raising of this subject is reopening old wounds for the relatives. A bit strange, since the relatives wants a new investigation and also wants to raise the wreck of Estonia...

News just broke (norwegian and swedish media) that Carl Bildt has been charged for corruption. The company Vostok Nafta (oil and gas) was mentioned, and also a planned pipeline and Gazprom. I don't know if this is related to ferry Estonia in any way, but I wonder...


edit: found an article in english...


Prosecutor targets Bildt's shares

8th January 2007



"The political game is sometimes very dirty," said Bildt.

He believes that it will take several years before questions about Gazprom become an issue for the Swedish government.

But on Sunday the Green Party reported Carl Bildt to the police's national anti-corruption unit over the Vostok Nafta affair.

"Now it's a question of whether it is a gift or actually a bribe," said the party's spokesman Peter Eriksson to TV4.

When Bildt was named foreign minister in October he resigned from his board position at Vostok Nafta, whose assets consist almost entirely of shares in the Russian gas giant Gazprom - which in turn wants to build a controversial pipeline under the Baltic Sea. His critics said that his government position could directly influence Gazprom.

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


[edit on 2007/1/8 by Hellmutt]



posted on Jan, 17 2007 @ 08:14 PM
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From an article I mentioned on page one (but I didn't include this quote) :


ePreamble


Ms Mona Sahlin - the Spider in the Net

The conspirators are today - year 2001 - headed by the Swedish deputy minister of trade and transport - Ms Mona Sahlin. She regularly states that the Final report (5) is generally correct and that no new information or facts have been presented showing that the official conclusions are 100% false. She bases her false statement on other false statements of the numerous co-conspirators mentioned above. It is very evident to anybody who has studied the developments, but nothing happens. We are told that the political position of Ms Sahlin is very strong and it is not possible to move her - to get a new investigation done. Too many embarrassing questions and answers would then be presented - it is best to censor the whole affair is the official message. It is a clever strategy - every Swedish citizen including, naturally, the members of Parliament shall become a co-conspirator.


And now, a news article from today... :


Sahlin 'nominated as Social Democrat leader'

17th January 2007



Former minister Mona Sahlin has formally accepted an offer to be put forward as leader of Sweden's Social Democratic Party, Swedish Radio has reported.

In a widely expected move, Sahlin has been asked by the party's nomination committee whether she wants the job, and she has replied in the affirmative, according to the reports.

The move, if confirmed, makes her all but certain to be the leader of Sweden's largest political party and the country's most significant opposition politician.

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.




posted on Jan, 31 2007 @ 08:29 PM
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Hmmm. Something just happened. The Swedish government has lifted an embargo on some film footage, and the footage proves that the official report is wrong. The Swedish government has also requested that divers should be lifted from some gag-orders, so that they can talk freely about what they saw (big holes in the hull, which points to an explosion)...


The Baltic Times: Footage casts new light on ferry tragedy

Jan 31, 2007



families of the victims of the Estonia ferry disaster came a step closer to discovering the truth behind the sinking after the Swedish government announced it would lift an embargo on film footage taken at the site of the wreck.

[---]

While the information does not reveal any new clues as to the cause of the accident, it does highlight a number of glaring errors in the official final report, building a stronger case for a new and transparent investigation into the sinking.

[---]

Further, scientists found discrepancies in the official report about the exact time of sinking. They found the ship had slanted and began its descent at 1:02 a.m., rather than 1:14 a.m., as stated in the official report. The ship disappeared from radar screens a full 25 minutes before the officially-stated time, the Swedish scientists said.

[---]

“The divers have previously admitted that they saw big holes in the hull, which points to an explosion. Now they can talk about it without this agreement of silence.” “There is much evidence, directly and indirectly, which points to an explosion on board. The only way to put the matter to rest is to start a new independent investigation.”

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.



posted on Jan, 31 2007 @ 10:59 PM
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It seems like you really have uncovered a bona fide conspiracy Hellmutt...congrats!

I can honestly say I haven't heard anything about this in U.S. media and the only info I've gotten was from your excellent reporting!


Is this a big issue in Scandinavia, or is this just an edge issue that you've been keeping track of with great effort?

Anyway, great stuff, keep on it!

[edit on 1/31/2007 by djohnsto77]



posted on Feb, 1 2007 @ 12:53 AM
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Originally posted by djohnsto77

Is this a big issue in Scandinavia

This is still sort of "underground" in Scandinavia, but more and more people are now starting to realize that something is terribly wrong. And it has been mentioned in Scandinavian media more often recently. I believe that at some point this story will explode bigtime (if my suspicions are correct). Imagine if it turns out that this was no accident! If a country (Russia?) sunk the Estonia for some reason (maybe to stop the smuggling of a suitcase nuke?) and killing 852 innocent people in the process. It would be considered as an act of war!



posted on Feb, 1 2007 @ 09:04 AM
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Hellmutt
I don't know if any of the survivors noticed or looked at the clock when it happened. I haven't studied the eyewitness reports so much, to be honest.


I can't show it here due to copyrights, but some of the survivors did report the time that the "explosions", started, and what time the 2 major listing/heelings began.

This information is from what I consider to be one of the most authoratative reports to date. If the story only mildly interests you, perhaps starting at the Conclusions, and working your way backward is in order. Pay particular attention to Item 14, as it is closely related to this threads content.

Chapter 27 is also particularly interesting since it directly names individuals involved in the diving efforts. This is notable because up until now they have been under a gag order. This has just been lifted, per Hellmutts most recent report.

Perhaps one of our serious researchers can contact them for a brief interview, hint, hint.

It might turn out to be the ATS scoop of the year!

{edit} In addition, the article that Hellmutt linked provides us with the name of the institute, and the head researcher involved in the most recent study. A quick search finds a brief project summary and contact information, (in case someone cares to interview them for a scoop on the upcoming final report), along with their website, which includes their report up to October 2006. (5MB PDF)

Kudos to Hellmutt for keeping us updated!




[edit on 2/1/07 by makeitso]



posted on Feb, 1 2007 @ 11:14 AM
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Originally posted by djohnsto77
Sounds like it could have been a rare metal such as elemental sodium...


My thoughts exactly. My one time stepdad who was a chemical engineer told me that if you were to throw just a little piece of sodium into your pool, your house would get blown off the block.


Very hard to handle the stuff.

Peace



posted on Feb, 1 2007 @ 04:22 PM
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Very interesting links, makeitso
I haven't seen these eyewitness reports before. I know some of the survivors reported about explosions, but I didn't know there were so many. And the scraping noises from below, which sounded like the ferry Estonia had run aground, is news to me. I guess I need to reread some of these links...


Originally posted by Hellmutt

Here's a video I found on YouTube. MS Estonia.

I'm embedding this video of the ferry Estonia again with the new format, so also non-members can see.




posted on Feb, 1 2007 @ 10:20 PM
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Originally posted by Dr Loveif you were to throw just a little piece of sodium into your pool, your house would get blown off the block


I placed a piece in a small glass jug. It fizzled around pretty fast, but it sure didn't blow anything up.

Perspective..



posted on Feb, 2 2007 @ 03:51 AM
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If it turns out that ferry Estonia was sunk because someone were smuggling a Russian suitcase nuke (Voronin's suitcase), why would anyone want to do that? Terrorists would have a motive, of course. But then they would not get all this help to cover it up. But if one or more countries were involved in such an operation, what would they do with it when they got their hands on it? Study it? Any ideas?


Btw, at the time Estonia was sunk (September 28, 1994), neither Sweden or Finland were members of EU. They became members of EU in 1995. Neither Sweden or Finland have ever been members of NATO (but are part of the "Partnership for Peace nations"). Estonia got their independence in 1991, but the last Russian troops weren't pulled out until August 31, 1994, less than one month before Estonia was sunk. Estonia is now member of EU and NATO. Ferry Estonia was sunk in international waters. On the very day of the disaster, there was this NATO exercise in the Baltic Sea...
From page one of this thread:


Estonia Litigation Association


On the very day Estonia sank, NATO's 10-day "Baltic Sea naval exercises" began with the militaries of 10 NATO allies and 10 Partnership for Peace nations, including Sweden, Finland, and the Baltic states. 14 of the 20 nations involved provided ships and aircraft for the "Cooperative Venture" exercise, which was a "peacekeeping, humanitarian and search and rescue operation" exercise. There has been, however, no discussion of NATO's role in or lack of response to the sinking of Estonia.

search and rescue...


And what about the two unidentified ships which were seen on radar near Estonia at the time of the "accident"?


M-V Estonia - the last voyage


Both JAIC and GGE found two unidentified ships on the scene of the accident. It is likely to believe that they are the same ships that follow close to the M/V Estonia route, and slow down at the time of the disaster.



posted on Feb, 2 2007 @ 08:41 AM
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Originally posted by SteveR
I placed a piece in a small glass jug. It fizzled around pretty fast, but it sure didn't blow anything up.


Couldn't have been pure sodium.

Dry ice is not pure sodium!


Peace


edit: and when I say small piece I meant in relation to the swimming pool.

[edit on 2-2-2007 by Dr Love]



posted on Feb, 2 2007 @ 11:37 AM
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since there were "operations" in the area , maybe a submarine
surfaced and colided with the Estonia ? maybe that was the bangs
heard by survivers .



posted on Feb, 2 2007 @ 10:21 PM
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thanks for the reporting...

keep it up






posted on Feb, 5 2007 @ 09:46 PM
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I'm embedding this previously mentioned film by Jutta Rabe as well. Here you go:


Google Video Link





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