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How did the 'Estonia' sink 1994?

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posted on Sep, 14 2008 @ 06:15 PM
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I really wish to hear some details from one or more of the divers, but I believe they're not allowed to speak. If you have anything to add regarding the Estonia disaster, real inside info, your own speculations or whatever, please post.




posted on Sep, 14 2008 @ 06:22 PM
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There's a long thread about Estonia on a Swedish conspiracy forum.

Lots of interesting stuff there.

Bad thing is it's all in Swedish.

www.flashback.info...



posted on Sep, 14 2008 @ 06:24 PM
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reply to post by Ivar_Karlsen
 


Thanks. I'll have a look. I can read Swedish. Better than nothing



posted on Sep, 22 2008 @ 08:10 PM
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I'm sorry I don't have anything new to share with you guys but my own thoughts.

First of all, I'm from Finland and I was 13 years old during the disaster of M/S Estonia. Believe it or not, I have not seen or heard anything considering this tragedy but the official statement many many years ago. I think that proofs the medias don't want to hassle with the pandora's box.

Yesterday I found Estonia MayDay audiostreams from youtube just accidentaly when I was watching some other videos. Same time I listened the radioconversation dropping couple of tears on the floor, I started to read the user comments on the videos. Quickly I was amazed by these theories and conclusions. I started to realize, something does not add up in this scenario. Just like in 9/11 events. I googled a bit and started to find resources. I read the whole heiwaco page and other sources as well. I got so deep into finding what actually happened, I didn't want to go to sleep. Today I continued searching all the possible sources and evidences and I really have to say, I'm shocked.

You all know the same I know, propably little bit more so no need to refrase everything. Just couple of thoughts of mine:

1) Estonia was definetely sank intentionally, not by waves and bad weather. The reason for so quick sinking is caused by the hole in the superstructure. You don't need much scientific explanations to proof what actually happens if the water would only come in to the cardeg on front of the ship leaving 3(?) floors below cardeg fully undamaged and gas/water sealed. Common sense and few simple calculations would show the ship wouldn't sink while lying 180' tilted(or listed .. what's the word anyway) having 3 undamaged floors full of air on top of it. It's like trying to sank a bloody football. Ever tried?

2) I don't say what caused the hole to the superstructure, but THAT is for sure the reason Estonia sank so quickly. JAIC denying the damage in the hull makes it funny to see the hole in Jutta's video afterwards. Maybe a big fish collided in to the wreck of Estonia just before Jutta got there.. Oh wait, we don't have that big fishes here in Baltic sea.

Anyway, there are too much evidence to show what actually happened, so the question is: Who can you trust nowdays? I have believed in something these days. After 9/11 attacks, I told myself at least I'm living in a place where nothing like that could EVER happen. Not here in Scandinavia. But I was wrong. And the big reason for this event to take a place is our beloved neighbour and it's ex-USSR-generals who wants to make some money. Why all these 3 nations (SWE, FI, EST) are covering up something and yet everything? I would quess because they are not afraid about the truth but the consiquenses if the truth would be revealed. What is so terrible to be afraid of to do all this cover-ups. Maybe a very powerful instance or nation? Make your own judgements. I have made my own.

Still it's so confusing to me, that no big actions are not taken to this manner even all this evidences, testimonys etc. are there. Just like U.S attacking to anywhere in this planet and no-one dares to say a beeping word. We live in a very corrupted world and I AM SO SHAME OF IT.

If we go back to time when example Hitler did everything he did, I would have to say, he wasn't so different from the leaders this day. Even he claimed to be one of the most brutals leaders in the world, I find more sickness from case Estonia and case 9/11. The difference is nowdays the leaders doesn't have the balls to stand behind acts. Nations and instances are covering up events after another. And after 70 years when all key-personnel has died, the cases are reopened and everything changes. What does it matter anymore?

Corrupted politicans and highly ranked leaders scares me most. They can do what they want coverment funding it. And people trying to proof them wrong are stamped as Conspiracy-Fools.

Laws of physics and common sense doesn't count in events like these



posted on Nov, 18 2008 @ 03:47 PM
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Uppdrag Granskning - M/S Estonia, sanningen på 80m djup

More videos. Another Swedish documentary. Again, it's mostly in Swedish, with some english (and finnish and estonian) here and there. Lots of interesting stuff.



Youtube: M/S Estonia, sanningen på 80m djup(1/6)

Youtube: M/S Estonia, sanningen på 80m djup(2/6)

Youtube: M/S Estonia, sanningen på 80m djup(3/6)

Youtube: M/S Estonia, sanningen på 80m djup(4/6)

Youtube: M/S Estonia, sanningen på 80m djup(5/6)

Youtube: M/S Estonia, sanningen på 80m djup(6/6)



posted on Dec, 1 2008 @ 06:22 PM
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Relatives Urge New Probe

Relatives don't believe the official report.


Relatives urge new probe into Baltic ferry disaster


11/22/2008


Relatives of the victims of a 1994 Baltic Sea ferry sinking that claimed 852 lives are stepping up pressure for a new probe of enduring claims that the disaster was caused by an explosion.

“So much new evidence has emerged in recent years that we no longer have even the slightest doubt that the international report and its conclusions compiled and published in 1997 did not indicate the true reasons why the ship sank,” Helje Kaskel, head of the Estonia Litigation Association, said yesterday. The association of victims’ relatives will tomorrow launch a week-long publicity campaign to highlight why a new international investigation is needed, she said.

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.



posted on Dec, 2 2008 @ 10:44 AM
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Another source. Seems like the Swedish authorities are unwilling to cooperate for some reason...


Estonia victim families demand new probe


“We’ve been trying to work with politicians and authorities in Sweden to get them to authorize the gathering of more evidence,” he told The Local.

According to Bergland, Estonia had indicated it was open to returning to the site of the wreck to search for new evidence, something Swedish authorities have refused.

“Why the Swedish authorities are so unwilling to cooperate, we have no idea.”

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.

It's obvious that they've got something to hide. And when Swedish politicians like Carl Bildt says things like: "the constant raising of the subject reopens old wounds for the victims' relatives" is an insult to the victims families imo, as they apparently want the truth.



posted on Dec, 11 2008 @ 04:05 PM
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My grandmother knew a captain on some other Estonian ship who said that he saw one supposedly missing Estonia crew member (chief officer or navigator? ) during a vacation in Cape Town ( Africa ). When my grandmother's friend shouted hes name, the crew member ran away.

It was some time ago when my grandmother told me this story, but now I think that ill ask her again about it.

[edit on 11-12-2008 by Mr.Andreas]



posted on Jan, 13 2009 @ 09:51 PM
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I was there with my friend, and some how we made it to swim in to the rescue boat.And there was captain Piht ho give as a hand! We wasn't in travelers list because,! we was then 14 & 17! we run away from home, and some how, like every time, we jump under the truck in harbor toll-free area! that was third time when we run over the border! I hawe reed all M(S Estonia sinking statments in investigator Karmi office! and there was said exactly, that Estonia singt begause major explosen under the cargo area! but like all investicators who was involved with that gace, is dead!?!funny! and now! today there i cant find anywhere my name inside rescued peoples list! and I wander how i m still ilive! but still I m a afreyd, and raiding this post in internet coffeteria



posted on Jan, 14 2009 @ 04:23 AM
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reply to post by Anonymous ATS
 


This is very interesting. Please write more! You say you saw Captain Avo Piht in the lifeboat? Did he survive after all?




From page 1 of this thread.


The day after the sinking, 9 crew members were removed from the lists of 146 reported survivors as a Gulfstream 4 (Reg. N971L), and a Boeing 727-200 (Reg. VR-CLM), left Stockholm's Arlanda airport carrying 4 and 5 unregistered passengers each. Anér has the documents from the airport's archive that show that the fees for the two airplanes were paid by the U.S. Embassy in Stockholm.



...and via Wiki:


In early 2005, Jutta Rabe reported that a helicopter log book had been found showing that some of the crew of the Estonia, including one of the captains, Avo Piht, had been flown to hospital after the disaster. Their stay at the hospital could supposedly be verified by the unidentified telephone logs of the hospital which unveiled calls to their families. These nine people, who would be strong eyewitnesses about the condition of and events on the ship, have since disappeared without trace. Eyewitnesses have since tried to debunk Piht's survival though cannot account for the phone calls or logs.



Please tell us more, Anonymous! Whatever you feel like sharing about your experience.



posted on Jan, 14 2009 @ 02:56 PM
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well this is one detail that also should be looked at.


From Wiki

The Swedish vice prime minister during the investigation, Odd Engström, died during the investigation, after having resigned from the government.




posted on Jan, 14 2009 @ 03:51 PM
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reply to post by Rufuz
 


Wow... This is from his wiki-page:


He died of a heart attack at age 56. According to journalist Jutta Rabe he died the day before he wanted to give an interview about the real background of the sinking of the MS Estonia in 1994.

Coincident?



posted on Jan, 14 2009 @ 05:28 PM
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Originally posted by Hellmutt
reply to post by Rufuz
 


Wow... This is from his wiki-page:


He died of a heart attack at age 56. According to journalist Jutta Rabe he died the day before he wanted to give an interview about the real background of the sinking of the MS Estonia in 1994.

Coincident?



Holy ****, Okey no. its not, why is it when its a insident like this a swedish politician gets shot or just dies..... this is brakeing news indeed i will search more regarding this and uppdate as it follows.


EDIT Uppdate:

only reliable information i can find is on Wikipedia i dont like all the info there since its often tamperd with and some times made to look diffrent but this time this is the most plausible explanation



From Wiki
Independent investigations
A number of theories exist to explain the disaster, elements of which have been vindicated by new evidence gained from independent investigations, as well as testimony from witnesses. According to Stephen Davis, writing in the New Statesman in May 2005, American adventurer Gregg Bemis and his crew, who dived to and filmed the wreck, recovered pieces of metal which, in laboratory tests, showed evidence of an explosion. Davis says the ship was carrying a secret cargo of military equipment smuggled from the Russians by the British MI6 on behalf of the CIA, as part of ongoing efforts to monitor the development of Russia's weapons. This would explain Britain's signing of the Estonia Agreement


I Found another source to supports the questions raised in this thread.

judicial-inc.biz...




From judicial-inc.biz...

A Bow Falls Off?

If you build a ship with a pivoting bow, you will make it stronger than a one piece bow. You have locking hinge pins, that are pennies compared to the overall cost.

The shipyard said it had to be explosives.





[edit on 14-1-2009 by Rufuz]



posted on Jan, 17 2009 @ 02:35 PM
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reply to post by Rufuz
 


Not only did Engström die of a heart attack the day before he was going to reveal "something about the Estonia". Also Aleksandr Voronin (The Russian scientist with the suitcase) died of a heart attack in 2002...



From page 2 :


Aleksandr is said to have died of a heart attack at age 45, in 2002, two weeks after Süddeutsche Zeitung, a leading German newspaper, published details of his weapons and space technology business in connection to the Estonia catastrophe.





posted on Jan, 18 2009 @ 10:51 AM
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reply to post by Hellmutt
 


So you are saying that some one did sink the estonia purly on the assumption that MI6/CIA etc, had gotten their hands on a suit case nuke ? and via estonia? if that is the case and that would indeed explain alot although we are kinda stuck with circumstanded evidence, would love to get my hands on some hard nice evidence and expose the bastards who killed so many inocence.



posted on Jan, 18 2009 @ 09:17 PM
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reply to post by Rufuz
 


I don't know what happened, but I'm sure that it can't have happened the way they say it did. And it's obvious that they are covering something up. Something BIG! My guess is that "the west" got their hands on a Russian suitcase nuke (or something similar). Either in Estonia (the country) or perhaps they smuggled it to Estonia (the country) from somewhere else. In those days it would be easy to smuggle stuff from i.e. Russia to Estonia. The west would want this suitcase nuke to either study it, or...to use it in a future false flag operation (likely the first, but all options/scenarios should be considered)? The Russians may have found out what was going on, but failed to stop it before the ferry Estonia left Tallinn. The NATO exercise may have been arranged as part of this smuggle operation. The Russians would do anything to stop the west from getting their hands on one of their nukes! Maybe a Russian sub did something to sink the Estonia? Why didn't the numerous ships in the NATO exercise assist in the rescue operation? The NATO exercise was after all a "search & rescue exercise"! Instead, survivors froze to death or drowned hours after the sinking...

If this is what happened, it would explain a lot of things. I.e. why they wanted to cover the wreck in concrete (like Chernobyl). It would also explain why the Russians don't blow the whistle on this. All parts kept their mouth shut, and the public is kept in the dark. The Russians may have sunk her, but with a very good reason. Who is to blame? The west should never have used a passenger ferry for this purpose. Ok, I'm guessing. But there are too many clues that point in that direction. And the official story stinks.

Btw, I believe that Swedish divers has later rescued the suitcase nuke (or whatever it was). The reason to cover the wreck in concrete after they had removed that suitcase, could be to hide the evidence. Holes in the hull, evidence of explosion(s), etc.



posted on Jan, 24 2009 @ 01:46 AM
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Estonia was leaking below the waterline? Caused by what?


The M-V Estonia Mystery and Tragedy


In Estonia the investigation goes on led by chief prosecutor Margus Kurm. Crew members have told a completely different story to him. The vessel was leaking below waterline, the crew was standing to their knees in water in the engine room below waterline. They started bilge pumps to pump the engine room dry. As soon as the ferry heeled, they escaped to open deck to survive. The Kurm report is awaited early 2009.



posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 02:36 AM
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Hmm.. read the whole thread here but one thing sorta makes the whole explosion theory kinda unreliable... As no one - excluding persons on board Estonia - have claimed having heard it. Nothing resembling a detonation was heard. Neither via sonar listening posts nor via geological instruments. Explosion below waterline would have been clearly audible with both methods and would have been heard very far away.

As for what sunk it and why so fast... that is not mine to decide or to judge.. but any of the explosion theories seems to be dodgy at best.



posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 04:59 AM
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reply to post by Anonymous ATS
 


To find more undebateble information read the following:

www.estonia.xprimo.de...

www.estonia.xprimo.de...
www.estonia.xprimo.de...

There is a lot to read but esp the latter 2 links are very informative, also regarding the explosives.

br, Finne









 
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