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reply posted on 14-9-2008 @ 06:15 PM by Hellmutt
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I really wish to hear some details from one or more of the divers, but I believe they're not allowed to speak. If you have anything to add regarding
the Estonia disaster, real inside info, your own speculations or whatever, please post.
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reply posted on 14-9-2008 @ 06:22 PM by Ivar_Karlsen
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There's a long thread about Estonia on a Swedish conspiracy forum.
Lots of interesting stuff there.
Bad thing is it's all in Swedish.
www.flashback.info...
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reply posted on 14-9-2008 @ 06:24 PM by Hellmutt
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reply posted on 22-9-2008 @ 08:10 PM by watch_learn
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I'm sorry I don't have anything new to share with you guys but my own thoughts.
First of all, I'm from Finland and I was 13 years old during the disaster of M/S Estonia. Believe it or not, I have not seen or heard anything
considering this tragedy but the official statement many many years ago. I think that proofs the medias don't want to hassle with the pandora's
box.
Yesterday I found Estonia MayDay audiostreams from youtube just accidentaly when I was watching some other videos. Same time I listened the
radioconversation dropping couple of tears on the floor, I started to read the user comments on the videos. Quickly I was amazed by these theories and
conclusions. I started to realize, something does not add up in this scenario. Just like in 9/11 events. I googled a bit and started to find
resources. I read the whole heiwaco page and other sources as well. I got so deep into finding what actually happened, I didn't want to go to sleep.
Today I continued searching all the possible sources and evidences and I really have to say, I'm shocked.
You all know the same I know, propably little bit more so no need to refrase everything. Just couple of thoughts of mine:
1) Estonia was definetely sank intentionally, not by waves and bad weather. The reason for so quick sinking is caused by the hole in the
superstructure. You don't need much scientific explanations to proof what actually happens if the water would only come in to the cardeg on front of
the ship leaving 3(?) floors below cardeg fully undamaged and gas/water sealed. Common sense and few simple calculations would show the ship wouldn't
sink while lying 180' tilted(or listed .. what's the word anyway) having 3 undamaged floors full of air on top of it. It's like trying to sank a
bloody football. Ever tried?
2) I don't say what caused the hole to the superstructure, but THAT is for sure the reason Estonia sank so quickly. JAIC denying the damage in the
hull makes it funny to see the hole in Jutta's video afterwards. Maybe a big fish collided in to the wreck of Estonia just before Jutta got there..
Oh wait, we don't have that big fishes here in Baltic sea.
Anyway, there are too much evidence to show what actually happened, so the question is: Who can you trust nowdays? I have believed in something these
days. After 9/11 attacks, I told myself at least I'm living in a place where nothing like that could EVER happen. Not here in Scandinavia. But I was
wrong. And the big reason for this event to take a place is our beloved neighbour and it's ex-USSR-generals who wants to make some money. Why all
these 3 nations (SWE, FI, EST) are covering up something and yet everything? I would quess because they are not afraid about the truth but the
consiquenses if the truth would be revealed. What is so terrible to be afraid of to do all this cover-ups. Maybe a very powerful instance or nation?
Make your own judgements. I have made my own.
Still it's so confusing to me, that no big actions are not taken to this manner even all this evidences, testimonys etc. are there. Just like U.S
attacking to anywhere in this planet and no-one dares to say a beeping word. We live in a very corrupted world and I AM SO SHAME OF IT.
If we go back to time when example Hitler did everything he did, I would have to say, he wasn't so different from the leaders this day. Even he
claimed to be one of the most brutals leaders in the world, I find more sickness from case Estonia and case 9/11. The difference is nowdays the
leaders doesn't have the balls to stand behind acts. Nations and instances are covering up events after another. And after 70 years when all
key-personnel has died, the cases are reopened and everything changes. What does it matter anymore?
Corrupted politicans and highly ranked leaders scares me most. They can do what they want coverment funding it. And people trying to proof them wrong
are stamped as Conspiracy-Fools.
Laws of physics and common sense doesn't count in events like these
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reply posted on 18-11-2008 @ 06:03 AM by Hellmutt
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reply posted on 18-11-2008 @ 03:47 PM by Hellmutt
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reply posted on 1-12-2008 @ 06:22 PM by Hellmutt
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Relatives Urge New Probe
Relatives don't believe the official report.
Relatives urge new probe into Baltic ferry disaster
 11/22/2008
Relatives of the victims of a 1994 Baltic Sea ferry sinking that claimed 852 lives are stepping up pressure for a new probe of enduring claims that
the disaster was caused by an explosion.
“So much new evidence has emerged in recent years that we no longer have even the slightest doubt that the international report and its conclusions
compiled and published in 1997 did not indicate the true reasons why the ship sank,” Helje Kaskel, head of the Estonia Litigation Association, said
yesterday. The association of victims’ relatives will tomorrow launch a week-long publicity campaign to highlight why a new international
investigation is needed, she said. Please visit the link provided for the complete story.
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reply posted on 2-12-2008 @ 10:44 AM by Hellmutt
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Another source. Seems like the Swedish authorities are unwilling to cooperate for some reason...
Estonia victim families demand new probe
“We’ve been trying to work with politicians and authorities in Sweden to get them to authorize the gathering of more evidence,” he told
The Local.
According to Bergland, Estonia had indicated it was open to returning to the site of the wreck to search for new evidence, something Swedish
authorities have refused.
“Why the Swedish authorities are so unwilling to cooperate, we have no idea.” Please visit the link provided for the complete story.
It's obvious that they've got something to hide. And when Swedish politicians like
Carl Bildt says things like: " the constant raising of the subject
reopens old wounds for the victims' relatives" is an insult to the victims families imo, as they apparently want the truth.
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reply posted on 11-12-2008 @ 04:05 PM by Mr.Andreas
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My grandmother knew a captain on some other Estonian ship who said that he saw one supposedly missing Estonia crew member (chief officer or navigator?
) during a vacation in Cape Town ( Africa ). When my grandmother's friend shouted hes name, the crew member ran away.
It was some time ago when my grandmother told me this story, but now I think that ill ask her again about it.
[edit on 11-12-2008 by Mr.Andreas]
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reply posted on 13-1-2009 @ 09:51 PM by Anonymous ATS
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I was there with my friend, and some how we made it to swim in to the rescue boat.And there was captain Piht ho give as a hand! We wasn't in
travelers list because,! we was then 14 & 17! we run away from home, and some how, like every time, we jump under the truck in harbor toll-free area!
that was third time when we run over the border! I hawe reed all M(S Estonia sinking statments in investigator Karmi office! and there was said
exactly, that Estonia singt begause major explosen under the cargo area! but like all investicators who was involved with that gace, is dead!?!funny!
and now! today there i cant find anywhere my name inside rescued peoples list! and I wander how i m still ilive! but still I m a afreyd, and raiding
this post in internet coffeteria 
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reply posted on 14-1-2009 @ 04:23 AM by Hellmutt
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reply to post by Anonymous ATS
This is very interesting. Please write more! You say you saw Captain Avo Piht in the lifeboat? Did he survive after all? 
From page 1 of this thread.
The day after the sinking, 9 crew members were removed from the lists of 146 reported survivors as a Gulfstream 4 (Reg. N971L), and a Boeing
727-200 (Reg. VR-CLM), left Stockholm's Arlanda airport carrying 4 and 5 unregistered passengers each. Anér has the documents from the airport's
archive that show that the fees for the two airplanes were paid by the U.S. Embassy in Stockholm.
...and via Wiki:
In early 2005, Jutta Rabe reported that a helicopter log book had been found showing that some of the crew of the Estonia, including one of the
captains, Avo Piht, had been flown to hospital after the disaster. Their stay at the hospital could supposedly be verified by the unidentified
telephone logs of the hospital which unveiled calls to their families. These nine people, who would be strong eyewitnesses about the condition of and
events on the ship, have since disappeared without trace. Eyewitnesses have since tried to debunk Piht's survival though cannot account for the phone
calls or logs.
Please tell us more, Anonymous! Whatever you feel like sharing about your experience.
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reply posted on 14-1-2009 @ 02:56 PM by Rufuz
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well this is one detail that also should be looked at.
From Wiki
The Swedish vice prime minister during the investigation, Odd Engström, died during the investigation, after having resigned from the government.
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reply posted on 14-1-2009 @ 03:51 PM by Hellmutt
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reply to post by Rufuz
Wow... This is from his wiki-page:
He died of a heart attack at age 56. According to journalist Jutta Rabe he died the day before he wanted to give an interview about the real
background of the sinking of the MS Estonia in 1994.
Coincident?
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reply posted on 14-1-2009 @ 05:28 PM by Rufuz
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Originally posted by Hellmutt
reply to post by Rufuz
Wow... This is from his wiki-page:
He died of a heart attack at age 56. According to journalist Jutta Rabe he died the day before he wanted to give an interview about the real
background of the sinking of the MS Estonia in 1994.
Coincident?
Holy ****, Okey no. its not, why is it when its a insident like this a swedish politician gets shot or just dies..... this is brakeing news indeed i
will search more regarding this and uppdate as it follows.
EDIT Uppdate:
only reliable information i can find is on Wikipedia i dont like all the info there since its often tamperd with and some times made to look diffrent
but this time this is the most plausible explanation
From Wiki
Independent investigations
A number of theories exist to explain the disaster, elements of which have been vindicated by new evidence gained from independent investigations, as
well as testimony from witnesses. According to Stephen Davis, writing in the New Statesman in May 2005, American adventurer Gregg Bemis and his crew,
who dived to and filmed the wreck, recovered pieces of metal which, in laboratory tests, showed evidence of an explosion. Davis says the ship was
carrying a secret cargo of military equipment smuggled from the Russians by the British MI6 on behalf of the CIA, as part of ongoing efforts to
monitor the development of Russia's weapons. This would explain Britain's signing of the Estonia Agreement
I Found another source to supports the questions raised in this thread.
From judicial-inc.biz...
A Bow Falls Off?
If you build a ship with a pivoting bow, you will make it stronger than a one piece bow. You have locking hinge pins, that are pennies compared to the
overall cost.
The shipyard said it had to be explosives.
[edit on 14-1-2009 by Rufuz]
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reply posted on 17-1-2009 @ 02:35 PM by Hellmutt
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reply to post by Rufuz
Not only did Engström die of a heart attack the day before he was going to reveal "something about the Estonia". Also Aleksandr Voronin (The
Russian scientist with the suitcase) died of a heart attack in 2002...
From page 2 :
Aleksandr is said to have died of a heart attack at age 45, in 2002, two weeks after Süddeutsche Zeitung, a leading German newspaper, published
details of his weapons and space technology business in connection to the Estonia catastrophe.
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reply posted on 18-1-2009 @ 10:51 AM by Rufuz
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reply to post by Hellmutt
So you are saying that some one did sink the estonia purly on the assumption that MI6/CIA etc, had gotten their hands on a suit case nuke ? and via
estonia? if that is the case and that would indeed explain alot although we are kinda stuck with circumstanded evidence, would love to get my hands on
some hard nice evidence and expose the bastards who killed so many inocence. 
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reply posted on 18-1-2009 @ 09:17 PM by Hellmutt
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reply to post by Rufuz
I don't know what happened, but I'm sure that it can't have happened the way they say it did. And it's obvious that they are covering something
up. Something BIG! My guess is that "the west" got their hands on a Russian suitcase nuke (or something similar). Either in Estonia (the country) or
perhaps they smuggled it to Estonia (the country) from somewhere else. In those days it would be easy to smuggle stuff from i.e. Russia to Estonia.
The west would want this suitcase nuke to either study it, or...to use it in a future false flag operation (likely the first, but all
options/scenarios should be considered)? The Russians may have found out what was going on, but failed to stop it before the ferry Estonia left
Tallinn. The NATO exercise may have been arranged as part of this smuggle operation. The Russians would do anything to stop the west from getting
their hands on one of their nukes! Maybe a Russian sub did something to sink the Estonia? Why didn't the numerous ships in the NATO exercise assist
in the rescue operation? The NATO exercise was after all a "search & rescue exercise"! Instead, survivors froze to death or drowned hours after the
sinking...
If this is what happened, it would explain a lot of things. I.e. why they wanted to cover the wreck in concrete (like Chernobyl). It would also
explain why the Russians don't blow the whistle on this. All parts kept their mouth shut, and the public is kept in the dark. The Russians may have
sunk her, but with a very good reason. Who is to blame? The west should never have used a passenger ferry for this purpose. Ok, I'm guessing. But
there are too many clues that point in that direction. And the official story stinks.
Btw, I believe that Swedish divers has later rescued the suitcase nuke (or whatever it was). The reason to cover the wreck in concrete after they had
removed that suitcase, could be to hide the evidence. Holes in the hull, evidence of explosion(s), etc.
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reply posted on 24-1-2009 @ 01:46 AM by Hellmutt
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Estonia was leaking below the waterline? Caused by what?
The M-V Estonia Mystery and Tragedy
In Estonia the investigation goes on led by chief prosecutor Margus Kurm. Crew members have told a completely different story to him. The vessel
was leaking below waterline, the crew was standing to their knees in water in the engine room below waterline. They started bilge pumps to pump the
engine room dry. As soon as the ferry heeled, they escaped to open deck to survive. The Kurm report is awaited early 2009.
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reply posted on 18-2-2009 @ 02:36 AM by Anonymous ATS
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Hmm.. read the whole thread here but one thing sorta makes the whole explosion theory kinda unreliable... As no one - excluding persons on board
Estonia - have claimed having heard it. Nothing resembling a detonation was heard. Neither via sonar listening posts nor via geological instruments.
Explosion below waterline would have been clearly audible with both methods and would have been heard very far away.
As for what sunk it and why so fast... that is not mine to decide or to judge.. but any of the explosion theories seems to be dodgy at best.
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reply posted on 18-2-2009 @ 04:59 AM by Anonymous ATS
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