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The Case for Satan (Let the Defense speak)

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posted on Sep, 25 2011 @ 09:58 PM
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Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by ButterCookie
 

We are in the contextual frame of reference of the new covenant, and from that perspective, the spirits can be tested, and Satan proves himself a thief and a liar, and Jesus Christ, trustworthy and true.
You are in the wrong frame, and also need to consider consciousness, either in duality, or in unity. The object of Satan is to separate us from the love of God.


In the technical sense, not a scripture, PLEASE provide the evidence that shows how Satan was a thief, liar, or murderer.

All of those crimes are openly committed by thy Lord Gord, loud and proud.'

You have fallen into the propaganda trap that Satan is evil, even though biblical text clearly shows Satan as innocent.

Why?




posted on Sep, 25 2011 @ 09:59 PM
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reply to post by windword
 

Yes, but I think there's a falacy in interpreting Genesis as a science fiction episode written by Zacharia Sitchin.

Or as early man's attempt to know God proof that God was/is a genocidal maniac.

It was also the tree of the duality of the knowledge of good and evil, and there was good reason not to eat of that "tree".

In the new covenant, for those who will, can be seen the tree of life, re-presented, as an act of the will of a God of love, for reconciliation and atonment, for the lifting of the veil of separation.

It's a problem of interpretation and understanding.

It's the kind of thing I might have bought into, when i was 14.



posted on Sep, 25 2011 @ 10:00 PM
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Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by MasterGemini
 


The fruit of tree of the knowledge of good and evil represents the ignorance introduced in the fall of consciousness into duality and of should and should not. It may seem a contradition when God tells Adam and Eve that they "should not" eat of this tree, but it was only good advice, the consequences of which were dire.

The tree of life is unitive and non-dualistic, and therefore represents consciousness in eternity without separation.


How was that 'good' advice? 'Do not partake in knowledge and wisdom?"

That sounds like "Stay dumb you ignorant slave. I won't be able to control you if you gain intelligence".

No?



posted on Sep, 25 2011 @ 10:11 PM
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Originally posted by ButterCookie

The World vs. Satan, for the crimes of slavery, rape, kidnapping, torture, lies and MASS MURDER

On the side of the prosecution are the Lord God and his attorney.


God = Omnipotent, Omnipresent, Omniscient, Omnipresent creator of all.

Satan = Adversary. That is the judgement within you that prevents you from seeing the interconnectedness of the whole.

If there is evil in your world, YOU put it there Satan.

If thine eye be evil, pluck it out!

With Love,

Your Brother
edit on 25-9-2011 by IAMIAM because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 25 2011 @ 10:16 PM
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Originally posted by IAMIAM

Originally posted by notquiteright

Originally posted by micmerci
How could there be 6 atheists on the jury in the very room where Lord God and Satan are in? Do the atheists not see or hear anything when they are speaking? lol


I think that since it turns out that God and Satan aren't really "gods", but instead aliens in this scenario, the atheist can actually claim to be right in some respects and it does not violate his beliefs. He might have to accept certain things maybe did happen that are in the bible, but ahh, they were just people from another planet. That's something an atheist could live with.


God = Omnipotent, Omnipresent, Omniscient, Omnipresent creator of all.

Satan = Adversary. That is the judgement within you that prevents you from seeing the interconnectedness of the whole.

If there is evil in your world, YOU put it there Satan.

If thine eye be evil, pluck it out!

With Love,

Your Brother


Correction: Since when does the label 'adversary' mean EVIL?

Adversary just means oppoent, competition, the party who is against your goals or ideas.

How did that make Satan evil?

Lord God was proven to be a tyrannical, jealous ruthless, psychopathic murderer

and Satan had the (guts) to stand up to him.

Does that not indicate a hero?
edit on 25-9-2011 by ButterCookie because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 25 2011 @ 10:24 PM
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Originally posted by ButterCookie

Originally posted by IAMIAM

Originally posted by notquiteright

Originally posted by micmerci
How could there be 6 atheists on the jury in the very room where Lord God and Satan are in? Do the atheists not see or hear anything when they are speaking? lol


I think that since it turns out that God and Satan aren't really "gods", but instead aliens in this scenario, the atheist can actually claim to be right in some respects and it does not violate his beliefs. He might have to accept certain things maybe did happen that are in the bible, but ahh, they were just people from another planet. That's something an atheist could live with.


God = Omnipotent, Omnipresent, Omniscient, Omnipresent creator of all.

Satan = Adversary. That is the judgement within you that prevents you from seeing the interconnectedness of the whole.

If there is evil in your world, YOU put it there Satan.

If thine eye be evil, pluck it out!

With Love,

Your Brother


Correction: Since when does the label 'adversary' mean EVIL?


I did not say adversary meant evil. I said Satan means adversary. I also said that if there is evil in your world, YOU put it there.


Originally posted by ButterCookie
Adversary just means oppoent, competition, the party who is against your goals or ideas.


Indeed.


Originally posted by ButterCookie
How did that make Satan evil?


I did not say that made satan evil.


Originally posted by ButterCookie
Lord God was proven to be a tyrannical, jealous ruthless, psychopathic murderer


And much much more. Throw all the labels known to man upon him and you still would need to invent more to describe his nature.


Originally posted by ButterCookie
and Satan had the (guts) to stand up to him.


No guts my friend. That is what he was made to do.


Originally posted by ButterCookie
Does that not indicate a hero?


There are no hero's. Merely actors playing their part.

With Love,

Your Brother



posted on Sep, 25 2011 @ 11:58 PM
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Butter cookie great post wrote a similar story about a year a go. Should have posted it but, didn't give it much thought.
s&f



posted on Sep, 25 2011 @ 11:58 PM
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Loved the thread ButterCookie
Heaps of accusative information that many people dont see in their own bible, or cant see because of their following (christianity) due to lack of reason, or intelligence.

To those out there that are saying that the OP doesn't matter or whatever it is you reckon, Satanism is not a plight against christianity, nor did Satanism come around BECAUSE of christianity. Actually, Satanism has been around THOUSANDS of years before all this church dogma and lies. Satanism/Luciferianism is a path that rebels against this tyrannical "lord", to stand for truth and enlightenment, also for understanding and gain of knowledge.

It is so true that lord god didn't want us to be clever, then we wouldn't be un-questioning, un-opposing, un-knowing, and the later. Lucifer knew that after Project-Earth was over that mankind would be exterminated like the insects we are, are he stood up for us, he gave us the wisdom we needed and gave us knowledge from the metaphorical 'tree of knowledge'. As the bible says "you shall know them for their fruit", meaning you shall know them for their knowledge.
lord god, didn't like knowledge and the people that did have this were classed as having "bad fruit" and should thus get destroyed.

Lord god demands that we believe everything that he tells us, and that we do everything that he says without questioning:Baph-o-met wouldn't hurt a fly. “Destroy a tribe including the women, children and animals down to last one? (Joshua 6:21). No problem. Murder 5 kingdoms of people and keep 32,000 virgins girls “for yourselves?” (Numbers 31:7-35) Why of course. Uh…wait a minute, this doesn’t seem very moral or very nice.” “SILENCE FOOL. HOW DARE YOU QUESTION ME. I AM GOD, ALL-KNOWING, INFALLIBLE, UNQUESTIONABLE, UN-UNDERSTANDABLE AND YOU MUST OBEY ME WITHOUT HESITATION. ACCEPT WHAT I SAY ON FAITH. BURN THOSE WHO DARE QUESTION MY WORD. DESTROY THEIR BOOKS. SHUT DOWN THEIR SCHOOLS. TELL THEM THAT DISOBEDIENCE MEANS THAT THEY WILL BURN FOREVER AND EVER, IN UNIMAGINABLE AGONY FOR ALL ETERNITY, AND REMEMBER THAT YOU WILL SUFFER THE SAME FATE UNLESS YOU GO OUT AND TELL THEM THIS. DON’T YOU DARE APPLY THE PART OF THE BIBLE WHERE IT SAYS “BY THEIR FRUITS SHALL YOU KNOW THEM” TO MY FRUITS AND OH, YEAH, TELL YOUR CHILDREN HOW MUCH I REALLY LOVE YOU ALL.” “Yes Sir, God Sir, whatever you say. See, here I am burning their books, pulling out their fingernails, torturing them for questioning Church dogma, banning the use of anesthetic in child-bearing (since the pain is their just punishment for the single sin of their long-dead ancestors, Adam and Eve), selling them into slavery, raping their wives, dashing their children against rocks…what did that child do to deserve this? Help! I thought an improper thought! Help me to blind my mind God, help me to not see what my reason tells me. Let me repress thoughts of natural sexual desire, doubts about you and your orders, feelings of tolerance or putting myself in my neighbor’s shoes. Let me follow no morality but that which you say is moral.” Now we ask you, who represents the greater evil?



posted on Sep, 26 2011 @ 12:46 AM
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If having to muck a path through the blood of the old testament is required in order to be a Christian then I want no part of it. The whole of it is sickening.

Funny when you consider the Jews manage nicely without constantly harping on such banalities. Funny when one considers that the old testament is both their history and scripture. If they can avoid the gore (sorry Al) why can't Christians? Or is it that Christians are so attracted to the sexual excitement that is provoked by so much of it?



Kill kill kill kill women and kids kill kill kill kill....etc kill all the fockers because God said so....but don't forget he loves you (but not them I guess).

Mommy, daddy why are those chosen people killing us? Well son it's because we don't believe in their God. But daddy I thought there was only one god? Well son there is and we all know it but.... oops can't answer now I was just hacked to death by a zealot.
edit on 26-9-2011 by trailertrash because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 26 2011 @ 01:12 AM
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The irony is, by posting this thread it has shown that religion causes nothing but division.

Unless, that is, you are beating the same dead horse as each other. The only way for it to end, is for god to pop down and smack the naughty children.



posted on Sep, 26 2011 @ 01:19 AM
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reply to post by ButterCookie
 


Have you read Robert Morning Sky's Terra Papers?

I have to say, Old Testament God sounds like En-lil.
edit on 26-9-2011 by LightAssassin because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 26 2011 @ 01:27 AM
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Wow, I've never quite looked at it that way. Still, in a religious mindset thinking of how satan will try to deceive others to gather an army and try to overthrow the lord, couldn't these types of things play right into those plans? I'm no biblical scholar nor can I say I'm a true believer of the sorts but from my understating that's what I kind of see going on. I must say it is a very interesting take on the scenario as a whole. Can't say I agree with it, but good presentation OP.



posted on Sep, 26 2011 @ 01:40 AM
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reply to post by xvagrantx
 


Read the Ancient Sumerian 'Epic of Atra-hasis', please.

The whole creation theory, the flood story, all came from this. The being doing the wrong is En-lil, the one who warned Atra-hasis (Or Noah as you may know him) is Ea-Enki.

Genesis 1:26. And God said: Let US make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness.

I assure you, they aren't speaking of the "Holy Trinity" given the Holy Trinity didn't exist until much much later.
edit on 26-9-2011 by LightAssassin because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 26 2011 @ 03:20 AM
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reply to post by ButterCookie
 


Hi ButterCookie – nice bit of writing

But this bit


He then proceeded to give us knowledge….you all refer to it as ‘biting of the tree of knowledge and wisdom. So you see, it was no literal apple, just an ancient symbolism for knowledge. This was the very apple that the Lord God forbade us to ‘eat’ from.


Could be done another way:
If you assume that the slaves are just working and surviving and know of no other way or that there is more to life, and then one day they get a taste of freedom (some machine stops working in the mine for example) and the slaves are put outside in the sun to rest and so on

And because of this, the scope of the slaves’ lives broadens – they now know what it is to sit in the sun or have time to work on their own development/evolution – such an event would change everything for the slaves


My dad worked in a coal mine and was old enough to remember pit ponies – they where just being phased out as he began working – he told me he was given the job of taking the ponies out of the mine to the place they would spend the reminder of their lives
These pit ponies had spent every day of their lives in the mines never seeing the sun or grass and only knowing sleep and work in the darkness of the mine - they where even born in the mine

He told me the ponies where change animals once in the fields even the very old ones acted as if they where youngsters, they where all inquisitive and playful and full of joy – he also said he would pity the man who tried to take the ponies back into the mine


edit on 26-9-2011 by racasan because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 26 2011 @ 03:23 AM
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reply to post by LightAssassin
 


Every story from the bible is taken from another religion. Same with the story of Enill and his brother Enki, yes.

Enki is Lucifer: Saved mankind from the flood.
Enill is jahova: created the flood.

Ive just discovered that everything in the bible has been:
1. Stolen, 2. Re-written, and 3. The roles revered.

Or should I say, Enki was the Sumerian God who later became known as Satan. There are many people who try and dispute this fact, but there is quite obvious proof, straight out of Ancient Sumeria itself.

You see, being a God of knowledge, creation, wisdom, magick and medicine, Enki's symbol was the Serpent. In Ancient cultures, the Serpent was a symbol of life, the life force, wisdom, etc... as well as of medicine and healing. (Still, the caduceus is our medical symbol).
The Serpent is the first and most notable connection we find between Enki and Satan, as in christianity Satan was always identified with the Serpent.

I would like to add here that it was only with the coming of christianity (which is a horrendous lie and hoax on humanity) that the Serpent came to be associated with "evil". As it is a symbol of knowledge and life/life force, what it really means when christianity "fights the serpent" is that it is fighting knowledge and life/life force which Satan/Enki wished to bring to humanity.

Then, you need to take a look at the story of the so-called "Garden of Eden". Contrary to popular belief, the bible was NOT the first place in which this story appeared. In fact, the bible stole this from Ancient Sumerian Texts that pre-dated it by thousands of years, before corrupting and twisting it.

The true Sumerian version states that Enki, symbolized by the Serpent, went to the humans that he had created and attempted to give them knowledge and power of the Gods, as well as immortality and the ability to reproduce. However, the other Gods denied this as humans were seen as a threat and were never meant to advance beyond the task which they had been created for, and from then on were banished from the places of the Gods.

It was said that Enki convinced humans to eat of "the tree of life"- which in reality is the symbol of the Soul. i.e. he gave humans the ability to advance their Souls and become as the Gods. "Eating of the fruit" also involved Enki giving humans the ability to reproduce.

For this, Enki was cursed by some of the other Gods who wished for humanity to be destroyed.

This is where christianity took its "Garden of Eden" story from in which the Serpent (Enki/Satan) came to humans and made them eat the fruit of the tree of knowledge, changing only a few details. Therefore, after examining these links, it is obvious to say that Enki is the Sumerian God who later became known as Satan when christianity came onto the scene.

Christianity is and always was nothing more than a program designed to remove and destroy knowledge, and to turn people against Enki/Satan who is the true creator and wished for humanity to be empowered.
Hail Satan!



posted on Sep, 26 2011 @ 05:54 AM
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reply to post by NZkraw
 


Ummm...thanks for re-iterating something I already truly believe in.

To elaborate even further on this path in history I invite you to read Robert Morning Sky's Terra Papers

I promise it will open your mind even further.

Just to clarify, breeding was done under controlled environment, Enki supposedly taught us to 'enjoy' the pleasure of it. To do it freely without constraints for fun, for pleasure. The Gods did, while we mined gold, they indulged in physical pleasures. Enki showed us how to as well. Supposedly.

I interpret eating of the fruit as engaging in foreplay...something breeding in a controlled environment probably never allowed.
edit on 26-9-2011 by LightAssassin because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 26 2011 @ 06:07 AM
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If one was created and abused in a hellish environment, is miseable, simple minded and does not know of anything else but soon discovers/aquires knowledge of "good and evil", wisdom, and enviroments elsewhere which are so much better then theirs, it becomes very difficult for the tyrant ruler to maintain his subjects in check for long without strength of force if this were to become too wide spread.

Once this flood gate was opened, there would be no stopping it. Not wanting to destroy these subjects, the next best thing would be to banish, punish and deceive them with fake love, all would be forgiven so long as they swear loyalty back to the ruler.

[bold] Notice that loyalty is the key to forgiviness from this deity, not the decency or the ethical aspects of a subjects character. [/bold]

Also the "unconditionally loving and all forgiving" "god" is not just jealous but has an ego that seem to require the creations worship, a major contradiction after emphasising "free will" as the greatest gift/concept in all of creation and then coercing or blackmailing to remove it. Why have it in the first place? Why have it at all? Can't we be friends instead?

If one was to use a detective approach to study the bible, the many inconsistency there would revel that the love this deity displays is in fact fake.

If one was to use this deity as an literal example in everyway to treat one's children or sujects, one is likly to appear not just as a tyrant but a monster as well.

The fact that there are so many such real life examples/cases that seems to mirrors this type of behaviour and situations should be a close indicator and an eye opener to the actual mindset of this deity as a fatherly figure.



posted on Sep, 26 2011 @ 06:13 AM
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reply to post by LightAssassin
 


Ill have a look at the Tera tomorrow thanks
. I wasn't trying to correct you i was trying to collaborate what i think about the ancient Sumerian texts with yours.

What you say about 'eating of the fruit' makes sense about it being 'forbidden', but what about 'by their fruits you shall know them', it gets confusing for me there. Does it mean you shall know them for their acts?, or..?



posted on Sep, 26 2011 @ 07:57 AM
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reply to post by ButterCookie
 


Really nice work BC, and while it was a bit on the long side...well bleep, that's still considerably shorter than the bible and the following time wasted on learning apologetics and hermeneutics to explain away all the non-sense in it.



posted on Sep, 26 2011 @ 08:43 AM
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Wow, with an open mind that was a good point of view from Satan.

Why can't people drop their ego's and just have an enjoyable read... haha.

Anyway I'll read anything and just take what resonates with me and leave the rest, that's a decent way of going about things right? haha.

Thankyou OP




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