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Russian Terror: What's Going On?

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posted on Sep, 6 2004 @ 12:42 PM
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ECK,

Don't take this the wrong way... but is there ANY terrorist incident that you don't believe is connected with the NWO, or the Neo-Cons etc. etc. etc.? I'm not trying to slam you; I'm actually trying to understand. You see, I'm curious because it seems that you are able to find connections where I can't see any. Am I too naive, or is it possible that you are too paranoid?

For example: the Israelis send condolences to Russia and put forth the idea that they should work together to fight terrorism. Now, you take this as possible evidence that the Beslan massacre was a Psy-op. However, I see it as one nation that knows the pain of losing their children to terrorism consoling another and proposing to work together to stop terrorists from ever doing it again. The question is this... which one is more plausible?

Honestly I don't see the evidence for a massive NWO conspiracy. Maybe I'm in denial, or maybe I'm just too ignorant to see it, but either way, in my world the dots just don't connect. Yes you can use the facts to raise the questions that you have, but in the end, where is the actual evidence. Conjecture and suspicion do not a conspiracy make.




posted on Sep, 6 2004 @ 12:51 PM
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Let's see what Putin has to say about who is actually behind these attacks.

www.themoscowtimes.com...



In his address, Putin chose not to specify what terrorist organizations are waging a war against Russia. But in a clearly emotional outburst he revealed that the Kremlin believes some countries could be supporting the terrorist attacks to try to weaken Russia, whose nuclear deterrent they see as a threat .

The efforts to "tear off a big chunk of our country" are being assisted by those who "think that Russia, as one of the greatest nuclear powers of the world, is still a threat, and this threat has to be eliminated."


Putin did not say what countries he was referring to, but he appeared to have Western countries in mind.



Anyone Inteligent enough to know Which Western countries want to "tear off a big chunk of " Russia? To me, it is just too obvious to state it.



posted on Sep, 6 2004 @ 01:03 PM
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Originally posted by zcheng
Anyone Inteligent (sic) enough to know Which Western countries want to "tear off a big chunk of " Russia? To me, it is just too obvious to state it.


WOW!! Simon Saradzhyan of the Moscow times says "(Putin) appeared to have Western countries in mind"

Your absolutely right. It's completely obvious now!! How stupid of me to ask for some EVIDENCE!!! I bow down to your superior intellect and ask for you to forgive this poor, ignorant, sheeple for his blind faith in facts and evidence.



posted on Sep, 6 2004 @ 01:12 PM
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Originally posted by Cypher
Your absolutely right. It's completely obvious now!! How stupid of me to ask for some EVIDENCE!!! I bow down to your superior intellect and ask for you to forgive this poor, ignorant, sheeple for his blind faith in facts and evidence.


According to Chinese old Axiom, when a person knows how stupid he is, he is actaully much wiser. Congrats.



posted on Sep, 6 2004 @ 01:17 PM
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I wonder how many children were killed during the wars when Russia went into Checneya years ago and the Russia media was not allowed to report?



posted on Sep, 6 2004 @ 01:18 PM
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Yes, there are terrorist incidents that have no connection. I don't discuss those because they do not relate. If you really want to understand the nature of this beast, you must start at the beginning with the creation of al-CIAda back in the late 70's. Do some digging, the picture becomes clear.

Here's a good article from the excellent site www.globalresearch.org



The Unseen Moral Syntax
As a philosopher, I am not interested in “conspiracy theories”, the favoured term to invalidate questions about 9-11. I am interested in the deeper question of the life-and-death principles of regulating value systems which connect across and explain social orders. In the wider lens of investigation of the normative regime of a civilisation, the pattern of 9-11 decisions is linked to a larger historical pattern. This larger pattern included U.S. plans prior to 9-11 to invade Afghanistan for long-stated geostrategic reasons of Middle Asia oil, forward military bases, and political axes of control. It included as well the U.S.’s successful strategic plan for Soviet Union collapse a decade before that - a collapse which was precipitated by the multi-billion dollar strategic, financial and armaments support by the U.S. National Security Agency and the C.I.A. of the same Afghanistan fundamentalist factions and warlords as plotted 9-11, including Osama bin Laden. These “moral equivalents of the founding fathers”, as U.S. president Reagan then called them, were U.S.-supported terrorist rings who were also later involved in training, armed support and narcotics-route partnership with the KLA (“Kosovo Liberation Army”) insurrection in Yugoslavia, as well as in Russia’s Chechnya province. Interestingly, it was only when the formerly favoured Taliban faction suddenly shut down over 90% of Afghanistan’s opium production for the global market in 2001, as UN officials confirmed in March 2002, that the Taliban was declared America’s mortal enemy and all its known positions bombed for months on end - while the opium that remained growing was concentrated in the areas controlled by the newly favoured Northern Alliance.
www.globalresearch.org...




Here are some excellent sites:

www.copvcia.com
www.cooperativeresearch.org
www.whatreallyhappened.com
www.antiwar.com
www.truthout.org

Saw this little jewel today, too:



Daily News
Israeli Army allows Jewish terrorist group to harass Palestinians
By
Sep 5, 2004, 17:08



Occupied Jerusalem - The Israeli media on Sunday revealed that a para-military Jewish terrorist group has been operating against Palestinian civilians in the West Bank with the knowledge and tacit approval of the Israeli army.

According to the Israeli-state run radio, Reshet Bet, members of the group, known as the "Hebrew Brigade," are armed with automatic rifles and equipped with jeeps and dangerous attack dogs.

Quoting unidentified security sources, the radio said the group is made up of dozens of erstwhile cadres of the Kach movement, the terrorist group founded by Rabbi Meir Kahana and dedicated to the destruction of the Palestinian community in Israel proper, the West Bank, Gaza Strip and East Jerusalem.
www.palestine-info.co.uk...

and also at:

english.aljazeera.net...


Sharon and his Likuds are a serious menace. (I say this as someone who has always supported the right of Israel to exist and to protect herself from very real threats.) If he and Arafat were taken out of the equation, maybe those who are genuinely interested in peace could make some headway. Until they're out of power, you can forget it.



posted on Sep, 6 2004 @ 01:21 PM
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Putin can't be too happy with US bases springing up all around. The Bush administration is so brazenly out in the open about it, it's scary. Neither China, nor Russia can be feeling too safe these days.



posted on Sep, 6 2004 @ 01:47 PM
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Originally posted by EastCoastKid
Yes, there are terrorist incidents that have no connection. I don't discuss those because they do not relate. If you really want to understand the nature of this beast, you must start at the beginning with the creation of al-CIAda back in the late 70's. Do some digging, the picture becomes clear.


Your posts are so informative, thanks.



posted on Sep, 6 2004 @ 03:56 PM
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ECK i respect you mate and i have no qualms with you but isn't it possible that all this may just be what is it seems, acts of terror committed by certain organisations/groups who really have it in for these countries.

It's my belief that if you hate something enough, such as the Bush administration or Bush himself then it is easy for hate and anger to cloud your judgement rather than take a step back and look at the bigger picture. I don't know about all these theories about the NWO, or Al-CIAda or any other conspiracy theory ideal but as of yet there is no evidence or i haven't seen any evidence to support what you, Zcheng and others have claimed?

I don't think i'm being unreasonable here in asking is all of this true? Is it simply that you've let your paranoia and hate to cloud your judgement. When you develope a bias against something then it is very easy to fall in to that hole of blaming them for everything, which is what Zcheng still hasn't realised yet.

If you have links to supposed evidence of these collaborations between the US & Al Qaeda or any other conspiracy then please post them here and i'd be willing to check them out. Try to be objective rather than subjective. I may be playing Devil's Advocate here but i don't think i've been unreasonable and ignorant in what i've said.

Keep going buddy.



posted on Sep, 7 2004 @ 07:51 AM
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Originally posted by zcheng


Your posts are so informative, thanks.


Thanks, I appreciate it.

I've given plenty of links, Flyboy. Check 'em out. Thoroughly. There's enuff there to keep ya busy for quite awhile.


The strangest thing about this whole case, I think, is the fact that Putin has come out and confessed to lying about the situation. The lying isn't unusual, it's his fessing up. And his mentioning a third party's involvement. Oh yeah, and did anyone notice - the ONE kidnapper they have in custody has not been named. I've seen his picture (in the media) but no one has mentioned his name. Why? If he was islamic, I guarantee his name alawi, al jizwhatee, whatever, would've been spoken, printed immediately. WHO WERE THE KIDNAPPERS? They aren't saying.



posted on Sep, 7 2004 @ 07:53 AM
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Another thing I've noticed, on the world terror scene it's been eerily quiet since the end of the RNC convention. I know, call me paranoid - which I'm not - it's just one big cowinkydink...



posted on Sep, 7 2004 @ 08:45 AM
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Originally posted by EastCoastKid
Another thing I've noticed, on the world terror scene it's been eerily quiet since the end of the RNC convention. I know, call me paranoid - which I'm not - it's just one big cowinkydink...


Yeah, I have noticed that the fact that it has been quiet but I chalked it up to all the commotion that is going on in russia. I think that has been overshadowing most of everything going on but this weekend is Sept 11th and you know we will be hearing some new news soon.



posted on Sep, 7 2004 @ 08:50 AM
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Bush is coming to town for a visit soon. Days after 9-11. CRINGE. NC is now in play. I wish he'd skip this trip and go somewhere else. Tecumseh's curse is still in effect and I don't want him bringin' no bad juju here.


It'll be interesting to see what goes down in the next week or so, from here to Russia. And I'm lookin for that (Russian) kidnappers name.



posted on Sep, 7 2004 @ 09:27 AM
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I think you all are missing whats really going down here. Act two of the War on Terrorism is beginning and enter from the left... Russia! How exactly this will effect things will remain to be seen. But after the recent attacks it's obvious Putin is angry. His reputation is on the line and I believe he will take a very hard stance on Chechnya and all terrorism.
Some quotes...



Mr Putin has also added into this complex mix the spectre of international (by which he means Islamic) terrorism and an accusation that unnamed foreign countries want to break bits off Russia.




Mr Putin has alluded to Russian claims that Islamic terrorism is linked to the attack on the school and other incidents.
He implies that Islamic terrorism not Chechen nationalism is the real enemy.

Putin is talking alot about Islamic terrorism latley. I think he's about ready to jump on the War on Terror bandwagon. Whatever he does in Chechnya the US will look the other way... maybe even support. I think Putin and Bush are in cohorts alot more than many of you think...



In the wide-ranging meeting which lasted almost four hours, Putin said he likes President Bush, calling him a friendly, decent, predictable person.



posted on Sep, 7 2004 @ 10:31 AM
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Putin blasts U.S.

www.cnn.com...

"But Putin said each time Russia complained to the Bush administration about meetings held between U.S. officials and Chechen separatist representatives , the U.S. response has been "we'll get back to you" or "we reserve the right to talk with anyone we want."

Putin blamed what he called a "Cold War mentality" on the part of some U.S. officials, but likened their demands that Russia negotiate with the Chechen separatists to the U.S. talking to al Qaeda.


Putin's comments came a few weeks after the U.S. granted asylum to Ilias Akhmadov, the "foreign minister" of the Chechen separatist movement."

This again validates the assertion made in former posts.



posted on Sep, 7 2004 @ 10:52 AM
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A great analysis from a Syrian, for your information.

by Syrian Guest on 07.09.2004 [02:14 ]

Russians understand


They must be tough on their borders, and tough on seperatism, or they risk breaking up like yugoslavia. Russians understand that NATO/USAns/Zionists cannot defeat them head on, they must destroy them from the outside in.

Russia is surronded, on all borders by USAn bases, with the CIA training terrorists to act like blind pets for them to attack Russia with. And the sick bastards turn around and claim the terrorism happens due to "Russia's poor human rights record". It sounds to me like exactly what had happened in Yugoslavia.

Once you let the shills take your borders, prepare to lose your country in time. Why has Putin let the "buffer regions" in Georgia fall so easy into the USAns hands? Putin now says that Russia has shown it's weakness, RUSSIA HAS BEEN SHOWING ITS WEAKNESS FOR FAR TOO LONG. In all "western analysists" speeches (because the commentater never interupts their pointless ramblings) they pointed out all the states bordering the city of Belsen. They didn't bother to mention big fat Georgia on the border, which has been in the spotlight for quite some time. Remember the "school of Americas" that destroyed south america?

www.soaw.org...

Well you in no doubt know that they've constructed a "school of Caucus" to try and destroy Russia. There's also NATO, no doubt instigating hatred of Russian v.s. Russian. But these bastards are as evil as they are cowardly, and we defeated them in Syria ... it was bloody and somewhat regretful, but once you show you are strong they'll go away for quite some time.


That is also my conclusion.



posted on Sep, 7 2004 @ 12:00 PM
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Zcheng, I've read alot of your posts... I think your conclusion about ANYTHING will always be the same.



posted on Sep, 7 2004 @ 12:57 PM
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Originally posted by averagejoe
Zcheng, I've read alot of your posts... I think your conclusion about ANYTHING will always be the same.


Sure. That is my consistency. To find the truth, you have to look through the smoking cloud.



posted on Sep, 7 2004 @ 02:53 PM
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Interesting reading Zcheng.


Still no name or country of origin (of the hostage-taker) in custody. Am I the only one who thinks that's just a bit odd?

Putin Bush soulmate crap aside, I will never trust the Russian government.



posted on Sep, 8 2004 @ 03:01 PM
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The Russian story gets stranger and stranger.. A third unknown party involved, possible police involvement, Chechens not taking responsibility, Chechens responsible.. "Chechens" speaking only Russian, Arab Chechens-linked al-CIAda.. War in the Caucuses.. Hostage-takers arguing and killing each other.. the lies, always the lies.. Keep telling them, the bigger the lie the better, the people will believe you!

One thing is for sure. After these attacks, Putin is dead set on taking his full-bore war to every inch of this earth now, following Bush and Sharon's lead.

Sheer madness.

I say follow the REAL money, find the REAL perps and stomp THEM out once and for all - the war profiteers. The devil appears as the angel of light, so too, do the terrorists. In finely made suits.


Here is a collection of recent articles. It's interesting to wade through.





Russia Offers Huge Bounty For Top Chechen Rebels’ Capture

Moscow, Sept. 8 (NNN): Russia on Wednesday offered a whopping 300 million roubles ($10 million) on any information leading to the arrest of Chechen leaders Shamil Basayev and Aslan Maskhadov, alleged masterminds behind the recent school carnage in Beslan in which some 400 people, mostly children were killed.
www.indolink.com...


FOLLOW THE MONEY!!!!!!!!!

SEC SECRET PROBE OF STOCK DEALINGS BEFORE 9/11

Most of these transactions were handled primarily by Deutsche Bank-A.B.Brown, a firm which until 1998 was chaired by A. B."Buzzy" Krongard, who later became executive director of the CIA.
tbrnews.org...


SCHOOL TERRORISTS GOT ORDERS FROM ABROAD: PUTIN'S ADVISER


MOSCOW, September 6 (RIA Novosti) - Terrorists who seized a school in North Ossetia's Beslan, September 1, were receiving orders from abroad throughout the three suspense-laden days, says Aslanbek Aslakhanov, President Vladimir Putin's adviser for North Caucasian affairs.

"The men had their conversations not within Russia but with other countries. They were led on a leash. Our self-styled friends have been working for several decades, I deem, to dismember Russia. They are doing a huge, really titanic job. It's clear as daylight that those people are coming up as puppeteers and are financing terror," he said to the Rossia television company, national Channel Two, tonight.
en.rian.ru...


From Alpha:

From: "Couples Company"

Subject: Excellent! False Flag Operations
Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2004 21:31:07 -0700


Hi All
Absolutely excellent and a must read....(Below) especially with the spy scandals breaking, the airline bombings and the school in Russia this week. As most of you know, the events in Russia are increasingly suspicious and Chechnya continues to deny any involvement...it also isn't their style. I'm waiting to hear back from my sources in Russia but its increasingly appearing to be a set-up.
www.itszone.co.uk...



Hostage-taker says notorious warlord ordered attack on school
By Anne Penketh

07 September 2004


One of the captured militants has testified on television that orders to attack the school came from the separatist leader Aslan Maskhadov and the warlord Shamil Basayev.

Testimony from the man, who has not been identified, was broadcast on the government's Rossiya television channel. He said: "We were gathered in the forest, by a man nicknamed Polkovnik [the Colonel], and they said: we must take over a school in Beslan. This assignment, they told us, Maskhadov and Basayev gave the assignment.
news.independent.co.uk...



Local police may have helped terrorists plan Russian siege

THE militants who seized a school in Russia, killing more than 350 people may have had help from local police, an official admitted yesterday.
www.examiner.ie...


RBC, 05.09.2004, Moscow 12:30:23.1, could have had accomplices among police officers, said Valery Andreyev, head of the North Ossetian Department of the Federal Security Service. He said initial investigation of the attackers' route suggested a conspiracy involving the police. At the same time, he did not rule out that the police officers might have been forced to help the terrorists.
www.libertyforum.org...


ECK: Who forced the cops?

THE EVIL EMPIRE LIVES



[B]A letter to the editor of KavkazCenter.com

Letter to the editor



Dear friends, why the version of experts, -- that it was a provocation orchestrated by Russian secret services, -- has never been voiced in your comments regarding the Beslan tragedy? Even from the edited materials of the Russian mass media you can see the distinctly traced legend, which was prepared in advance and later on corrected in a hurry by unable hands of the local performers, from which it became so absurd and easy to recognize.

The school could have been seized by a group consisting only of FSB (KGB) agents or duped opponents of the Putin regime mixed with special agents.
www.kavkazcenter.com...


FSB NO LONGER EXISTS FOR ME

Oppositional Dagestan editions have been talking more and more often about the involvement of Russian secret services in kidnappings in Dagestan. Yasseen.Ru edition reported about irrefutable proofs that FSB (Russian Federal Security Service, former KGB) and GRU (Russian military intelligence, Main Intelligence Directorate) are the ones kidnapping people in the Republic. Just like in Chechnya, they are called “death squads”.

The kidnapped victims are brought to Chechnya, where they undergo severe tortures. The agents are forcing the victims to confess to the crimes that they did not commit. Many of the kidnapped victims disappear forever and never manage to escape. But even those who do survive do not want to make public everything that they had to experience and go through in Chechnya while in captivity by Russian secret services.

But most likely, one of the prisoners of “death squads” who survived had the courage to tell the journalists about everything that was happening to him after he was kidnapped by secret services and brought to the premises of a Russian military base in Chechnya. This story is unique because he himself is a former FSB agent from Dagestan.
www.kavkazcenter.com...


Spiegel: No Links Between Chechens and Al-Qaeda

Events in Russia have been in the center of attention in the German press. One of the articles published in the internet version of German weekly Spiegel is called «Secret Services Doubt About Putin’s Thesis on Al-Qaeda’s Role in Activities of Militants in Russia».

For instance, this material mentions that Putin keeps repeating over and over again that Al-Qaeda is involved in these acts on the Russian soil. But international intelligence agencies are casting doubts on the proofs that he brings to back his point of view with. After analyzing published addresses, where unknown groups claim responsibility for acts committed, the experts claim that the addresses were written by persons who only pose as members of such organizations.
www.kavkazcenter.com...


Russia still at sea on the identity of school's attackers

REUTERS[ TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER 07, 2004 12:06:51 AM ]
MOSCOW: Two days after the bloody end of a hostage crisis that left more than 350 people dead, the identity of attackers who seized a school in the ethnic Osettia remained uncertain.

Shortly after the stand-off reached its bloody finale on Friday, at least two Russian officials said that several of the hostage-takers were Arabs — nine of them, according to an advisor to President Vladimir Putin, or 10, according to the head of the Federal Security Service in North Ossetia.

However, the authorities haven’t publicly presented evidence supporting those claims, which were in line with repeated statements from Putin’s Kremlin that Russia’s military campaign in Chechnya is part of the war on international terrorism.
economictimes.indiatimes.com...


Leading Russian journalist 'poisoned'

Chris Tryhorn
Monday September 6, 2004


Alarm bells are ringing in Russian media circles after the alleged poisoning of Anna Politkovskaya, one of the most outspoken critics of Vladimir Putin's policy on Chechnya, and the apparent sacking of the editor of Izvestia today.
media.guardian.co.uk...


Beslan: Not a Single Chechen Has Been Found Among the Dead Gunmen
valis on Sep 08, 2004 - 04:51 AM

The Guardian 09/08/04: Not a single Chechen has been found among the dead gunmen who took children hostage in Beslan last week, Sergei Ivanov, Russia's defence minister, told the Guardian yesterday. "About half of the 32 terrorists have been identified and we have not yet discovered anyone from Chechnya," he said.

Jonathan Steele and agencies in Moscow
Wednesday September 8, 2004

The Guardian

Not a single Chechen has been found among the dead gunmen who took children hostage in Beslan last week, Sergei Ivanov, Russia's defence minister, told the Guardian yesterday. "About half of the 32 terrorists have been identified and we have not yet discovered anyone from Chechnya," he said.

The comment was a clear effort to back up the Kremlin's claim that last week's attack was not a result of Russia's actions in Chechnya.
www.incunabula.org...



What would a major terrorist incident be without Pakinstan's ISI?





Pakistani ISI: Putin tells 9-11 funder Pakistan & ISI: Eliminate finance for terrorism!!
valis on Sep 07, 2004 - 08:38 PM

Russia is apparently linking Pakistan to an international terrorist network that Putin believes was behind the attack on a school in Beslan in North Ossetia that left over 350 people, including some 160 children, dead and around 400 injured.
www.incunabula.org...



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