Riots in Tottenham, London

Originally posted by FOXMULDER147
Sorry, a "racist" is determined by his/her actions and/or offensive views. On an individual basis. Not by membership to a club (regardless of that club's history or reputation).

Generalisation is wrong, either way.

Oh right, so KKK members aren't racist either.

Originally posted by Tachalka
reply to post by FOXMULDER147

 

I have to agree, sure the BNP is known to be a racist group, and is mostly made up of racist individuals I imagine. Howether being a BNP supporter wouldn't automatically make the person a racist.

Yes it would. Read the BNP manifesto, it's outright racist... BNP members support the BNP manifesto - the logical conclusion is obvious

Originally posted by Tachalka
reply to post by FOXMULDER147

 

I have to agree, sure the BNP is known to be a racist group, and is mostly made up of racist individuals I imagine. Howether being a BNP supporter wouldn't automatically make the person a racist.

Sorry but how can you support a racist group, whose manifesto is clearly racist and whose leaders have all been convicted of racially motivated crimes?

How can you support a racist group and not be racist?

That is a contradiction in itself...

Originally posted by NadaCambia

Originally posted by FOXMULDER147
Sorry, a "racist" is determined by his/her actions and/or offensive views. On an individual basis. Not by membership to a club (regardless of that club's history or reputation).

Generalisation is wrong, either way.

Oh right, so KKK members aren't racist either.

Utterly meaningless comparison. Although it shows how simply you perceive things.

Many people support the BNP in spite of its reputation, mainly as a reaction against the other parties. These are people concerned for their country and their fellow Brits (of all creeds and colours). Once upon a time it was moral to show such concerns, and heroic to act upon them.

Today they are called "racist" by the PC mouthpieces who speak in platitudes, incapable of an original thought.

I have read a little more on the aftermath of the rioting from last night.

It appears among other things they managed to injure at least 26 Metropolitan police officers, 8 requiring hospital treatment.
Cause 'several million pounds' worth of damage to various stores, homes and various other property including a few police cars and a double decker bus.
They also looted many shops for valuable goods during the commotion.

Weapons used by the roiters ranged from metal bars and baseball bats to projectiles including eggs and petrol bombs.

Metropolitan police seem to be expecting further disturbances this evening, steer clear of Tottenham tonight people, unless you are after a nice new TV that is .

Originally posted by Tachalka
I have read a little more on the aftermath of the rioting from last night.

It appears among other things they managed to injure at least 26 Metropolitan police officers, 8 requiring hospital treatment.
Cause 'several million pounds' worth of damage to various stores, homes and various other property including a few police cars and a double decker bus.
They also looted many shops for valuable goods during the commotion.

Weapons used by the roiters ranged from metal bars and baseball bats to projectiles including eggs and petrol bombs.

Metropolitan police seem to be expecting further disturbances this evening, steer clear of Tottenham tonight people, unless you are after a nice new TV that is

.

Not sure if these been posted already or not, but they just hit my subscriptions list so anyways here is a little visual of what went down:

"London on Fire: Video of anti-police riots, bus blaze in Tottenham"



"Tottenham Riots: Torched houses, cars in London violence aftermath"



"More video of Tottenham, London riots damage and aftermath"

No matter the race a riot is a riot whether it happened at the Stanley Cup Finals in Vancouver, the LA riots in regards to Rodney King, the Tottenham Riots, and the G20 Riots of Toronto and Pittsburgh, the police have to maintain a certain level of peace and control to ensure that there is public safety.

Let’s Remember Our Manners

For anyone who missed it, please read this.

This reminder is not aimed at anyone in particular (and specifically is not a response to the post above), but there have been many posts by different members over the past several pages that don't meet ATS standards for civility and decorum, and we are responding to legitimate complaints about that.

While threads can be closed for turning into free-for-alls, I hate to see topics shut down by a few inconsiderate members and prefer to post-ban those disrupting discussion instead.

Before doing that, I consider it best to give fair warning, so here it is: members who cannot be bothered to post courteously may find their posting privileges suspended.

Strong opinions on the topic are fine. Passionate debate is what makes ATS interesting and engaging.

Name-calling and labeling, however, are not only an insult to other members, but to what ATS stands for. So let's please be on our best behavior.

As always, thanks to everyone who didn't need to be reminded.

Your cool tempers and good sense are greatly appreciated.

Originally posted by FOXMULDER147

Originally posted by NadaCambia

Originally posted by FOXMULDER147
Sorry, a "racist" is determined by his/her actions and/or offensive views. On an individual basis. Not by membership to a club (regardless of that club's history or reputation).

Generalisation is wrong, either way.

Oh right, so KKK members aren't racist either.

Utterly meaningless comparison. Although it shows how simply you perceive things.

Many people support the BNP in spite of its reputation, mainly as a reaction against the other parties. These are people concerned for their country and their fellow Brits (of all creeds and colours). Once upon a time it was moral to show such concerns, and heroic to act upon them.

Today they are called "racist" by the PC mouthpieces who speak in platitudes, incapable of an original thought.

Many people support the KKK I'm sure for the same reasons. The comparison is valid.

The only difference is you sympathise with one and not the other.

I'll ask again. If you support a manifesto that is inherently racist, how are you not a racist?

If I support the Communist Manifesto am I not a communist?

There is an argument that could be argued, I suppose, that the EDL isn't racist and supporting the EDL is not racist. Simply because of the nature of the EDL you could quite easily argue this. But you cannot argue BNP members are not racist, as it contradicts their membership and approval of the BNP manifesto.

reply to post by Sicul2012


Well, obviously if it was directly because of hatred for their race that they were murdered/raped then yes, It's racism.

Why on earth are you making that point now though? And in all caps as well..

Originally posted by Sicul2012
reply to post by woodwardjnr

 

IS IT RACIST WHEN BLACKS AND MUSLIMS MURDER AND RAPE WHITE WOMEN ?

It depends. Is the rape victim being a white woman coincidence or purpose?

Simply raping someone who happens to be of a different race isn't racist.

This seems to be a depressingly familiar pattern!

Sunday, 7 August 2011 Tottenham Riots: Opinion and Videos

Mark Duggan, a well-known gun-toting drug dealer dies in an exchange of gunfire with the Metropolitan Police on Thursday and members of the wider criminal community in Tottenham promptly stage a ‘protest’ which ends with them burning buildings, police cars and a bus. Whilst Tottenham burned, looters afforded themselves the opportunity to ransack local shops, wheeling away trolley-loads of stolen goods. There are also reports, as yet lacking in detail, that the rioting spread to Wood Green. Worryingly, the police response has been seen to be so ineffectual that vigilante units have been formed in Wood Green to protect local businesses. This riot is indicative not of any ‘oppression’ of the so-called local ‘community’, or of its ‘deprivation’, or a sign of ‘discrimination’, ‘racism’ or any of those other smokescreens behind which black criminals hide themselves, but of a deep-rooted inherent criminality in part of the black population that revels in violence and gangsterism.

Guns, knives, drugs, prostitution and the veneration of a crass materialistic illiterate world of machismo posturing characterise this ‘urban’ subculture. Mark Duggan, a 29-year-old violent criminal who made his living from generating misery, will not be missed other than by members of his family and the criminals with whom he was on good terms. The Observer quotes a woman named Nikki as saying that the protesters who originally marched on Tottenham Police Station were “making their presence known because people are not happy". "This guy was not violent. Yes, he was involved in things, but he was not an aggressive person."

She says that Duggan was “not violent”? A man carrying a gun who exchanged shots with the police was “not violent”? If he was “not violent”, I dread to think what the violent members of the Tottenham criminal underworld must be like. Nikki’s statement is very revealing, for it shows that life has become so debased and devalued in Tottenham that it is seen as acceptable and normal to carry a firearm, and to use it. ................................

durotrigan.blogspot.com...

Well from what i can work out the protest was a peacful one, the people walked to the police station and asked for someone who order the go for the shot to be taken to come out and answer why they shot him instead of send in a negotiator or even attempt to open up a link of comunication before opening fire. but the police stood there and said nothing, and they keept saying nothing, and nothing.... and eventualy this wound people up, so much to the point where a 16 year old girl walked upto the police line and started to asked the police we want to speak to the officer that gave the go for the lethal shot to be fired, next thing is 4/5 police surrounded her and started beating her with battons!, 16 year old girl. 4/5 grown men attacking her with battons? she was un armed! and that from what i can work out this started the roits and violence. it wasnt so much the shooting, it was the police just acting instead of trying to actualy talk to people.

Originally posted by Sicul2012
reply to post by woodwardjnr

 

IS IT RACIST WHEN BLACKS AND MUSLIMS MURDER AND RAPE WHITE WOMEN ?

I don't know what you are talking about, I thought this was about a riot in Tottenham, whats race got to do with it? I didn't see any mention of race when students were rioting in London. Stop trying to drag the debate down to race.

Originally posted by NadaCambia
I'll ask again. If you support a manifesto that is inherently racist, how are you not a racist?

I'll reiterate: to take a vote away from, and to make a statement to, the major parties failing the British people.

Many people do this, and many don't have a racist bone in them.

Originally posted by FOXMULDER147

Originally posted by NadaCambia
I'll ask again. If you support a manifesto that is inherently racist, how are you not a racist?

I'll reiterate: to take away a vote, and make a statement to, the major parties failing the British people.

Many people do this, and many don't have a racist bone in them.

I'm sorry but I just don't buy that as a reason. If that was the case then maybe I could lend myself to BNP members no being racist but I don't know anyone who's voted the BNP to send a message. And I'm from Burnley, so you'd figure I'd know a good amount of BNP supporters.

If these people weren't racist why wouldn't they give their vote instead to UKIP? They're anti-immigration and pro-British.

If people were voting BNP to make a statement then I could buy that, but I can't bring myself to believe that happens. Rather it seems to be a justification for those who hold racist positions and views but for w/e reason are unable to engage in honesty.

Furthermore if some Muslim felt the Muslim community and voice were being neglected by the British government and that they were being wronged, would it justify them signing up to some far-right Muslim hate group - As protest, to send a message or otherwise.

I don't believe you'd make the same arguments in their favour. I don't believe you'd defend their actions and motives in such a way.

Originally posted by Sicul2012
reply to post by woodwardjnr

 

IS IT RACIST WHEN BLACKS AND MUSLIMS MURDER AND RAPE WHITE WOMEN ?

No - It's only racist if a white person does it. Or if a white person was to comment on such a situation as described above. There is no such thing as a racist black person or a racist asian / muslim etc.

Only white people can be racist. If you disagree then you're obviously a BNP supporter.

Originally posted by mr-lizard

Originally posted by Sicul2012
reply to post by woodwardjnr

 

IS IT RACIST WHEN BLACKS AND MUSLIMS MURDER AND RAPE WHITE WOMEN ?

No - It's only racist if a white person does it. Or if a white person was to comment on such a situation as described above. There is no such thing as a racist black person or a racist asian / muslim etc.

Only white people can be racist. If you disagree then you're obviously a BNP supporter.

Who said that?

Quote them for me.

reply to post by NadaCambia

That's surprising. I'm originally from Lancashire and I know of a few people who voted BNP in the last general election because they were so tired of the 'Big 3' parties. A couple are friends of mine who are absolutely not racist at all. I also know of an asian immigrant family who, somewhat bizarrely, voted BNP for the same reason.

They didn't vote for UKIP because that wouldn't make the same statement as voting for the BNP.

A vote can be used for more than supporting your own party.