Crash kills members of SEAL Team 6

they were killed to keep them quiet right ? lol, because thay had 3 months to spill the beans

if they wanted them dead, the chopper bringing them home that night would have gone down

when you see a conspiracy in every story you are not awake, you are a sheep, just marching to a different drummer

More like when they make the investigation and find launchers smuggled in from Iran, WWIII starts. That's probably where this is headed, expect some twist no one expects out of this mess.
Iran Funnels New Weapons to Afghanistan

The Revolutionary Guard has smuggled rocket-assisted exploding projectiles to its militia allies in Iraq, weapons that have already resulted in the deaths of American troops, defense officials said. They said Iranians have also given long-range rockets to the Taliban in Afghanistan, increasing the insurgents' ability to hit U.S. and other coalition positions from a safer distance. Read more: www.foxnews.com...

www.huffingtonpost.com...

A longtime CIA officer who spent 21 years in the Middle East is predicting that Israel will bomb Iran this fall, dragging the United States into another major war and endangering U.S. military and civilian personnel (and other interests) throughout the Middle East and beyond.

www.chomsky.info...

In June 2010 Congress strengthened the sanctions against Iran, with even more severe penalties against foreign companies. The Obama administration has been rapidly expanding US offensive capacity in the African island of Diego Garcia, claimed by Britain, which had expelled the population so that the US could build the massive base it uses for attacks in the Central Command area. The Navy reports sending a submarine tender to the island to service nuclear-powered guided-missile submarines with Tomahawk missiles, which can carry nuclear warheads. Each submarine is reported to have the striking power of a typical carrier battle group. According to a US Navy cargo manifest obtained by the Sunday Herald (Glasgow), the substantial military equipment Obama has dispatched includes 387 "bunker busters" used for blasting hardened underground structures. Planning for these "massive ordnance penetrators," the most powerful bombs in the arsenal short of nuclear weapons, was initiated in the Bush administration, but languished. On taking office, Obama immediately accelerated the plans, and they are to be deployed several years ahead of schedule, aiming specifically at Iran. "They are gearing up totally for the destruction of Iran," according to Dan Plesch, director of the Centre for International Studies and Diplomacy at the University of London. "US bombers and long range missiles are ready today to destroy 10,000 targets in Iran in a few hours," he said. "The firepower of US forces has quadrupled since 2003," accelerating under Obama.

This incident could be the trigger and we might not even realize it, the Isrealis are doing everything in their power to drag us into a war with Iran.

How is it summer of 2011 and a highly modified MH-47G carrying some of the most elite trained soldiers could be wiped out by rpgs, which has been used in combat in afghanistan every day for 32 years? Its going to come out that Taliban used a sophisticated anti air missile launcher, smuggled in from Iran or Pakistan, we'll see I guess.

US accuses Iran of 'secret deal' with al-Qaida

Originally posted by syrinx high priest
they were killed to keep them quiet right ? lol, because thay had 3 months to spill the beans

if they wanted them dead, the chopper bringing them home that night would have gone down

That would have been way too suspicious.

Though, chances are that they have already talked too much, and it takes time to eliminate all of that as well... What are the odds, that a brother, father, sister, mother, grandmother, best friend etc. of any of these seals and/or operatives have been told something they should not know?

Only select government leaders (for vague and indefensible reasons) have even seen the evidence that OBL was in fact killed in that raid.

In my opinion, based on my own research Osama died of natural causes in 2006. They had to kill him this way, they have to prove (through the media to the world) that Al Qaeda is virtually extinct "unable to carry out any large scale attacks" etc. Because Al Qaeda and Osama bin Laden were going to be used as clever scapegoats in a series of devastating attacks on the west, which would have likely happened sometime around this past June, and following a claim of responsibility from Al Qaeda, the west would have no new options for retaliation, other than to continue the war in Afghanistan.

If any word that the raid on the compound in Pakistan that allegedly killed OBL was all staged and fake from anyone directly involved, or proof that the person killed was not OBL got out, that would be a major problem....

If you're "in the know", you're at risk of an untimely death as well, along everyone you have shared anything with.

Originally posted by woodwardjnr

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
Am I reading this right were these seals actually involved with BL or were they just from the same unit?

How bigs a "unit"? I wouldn't have a clue about these things

I dont know how big a normal U.S. Military unit is but i do know that the Navy SEAL Teams generally consist of 300 members although i think the SEAL 6 team are about half that number as they are an 'elite' taskforce

reply to post by hardboeilednwokilla


I don't understand the incredulous reactions by so many that an RPG was most likely responsible. The story at this juncture is that there was already a Afghan Coalition force executing a raid on a "bomb factory for whatever reason the insurgents chose to defend their position.(it is most often just a quick hit and then they are gone)

The MH-47 ( I believe it was an MH-47) was tasked as quick reaction in support. It sounds like they were definitely in the fight and the witness commented the Chinook was low and very slow, a likely scenario is that the pilots were setting up to disembark the cavalry when they got hit by the RPG.

Time magazine is calling it a "golden bb" from the eyewitness description. It sounds like it made a mess, one report had the helicopter recovery team still sidelined because the medics were still finding pieces today.

A Chinook in that configuration is an easy target for a ballistic weapon within 100 yards. There was obviously a sympathetic detonation, they use bladders in the fuel tanks for just such a contingency but you still had a short platoon of DEVGRU as a QRF .

You know those guys were loaded for bear and there is nothing in a helicopter that's going to phase an RPG.

Lastly, I would remind everyone that there are many confirmed rotorcraft kills via the lowly RPG-7. The Mujahedeen were using an ambush technique employing the RPG with good results in Afghanistan until we supplied MANPADS in '86.

I would also remind anyone still suspicious that both of the UH-60's lost during the infamous Somalian incident were brought down by RPG's.

Lastly, during Operation Red Wings outside of Kunhar in 2005 an MH-47 carrying 8 SEALS and 8 Special op crewman from the 160th Nightstalkers were shot down by an RPG. All 16 were lost, I'm surprised with all the op sec brevity that nobody remembers that incident.

It was eerily familiar, same type of mission, same phase etc.


Regarding the missile theory, the last I had heard, China wasn't arming the Taliban with personal air defense but there is always a first time .

I beleive you might be surprised to learn this but the warhead on a man portable missile is roughly the same as an RPG. A MANPAD couldnt inflict the kind of damage you are describing. They throw shrapnel through turbines and cut fuel and hydraulic lines but I dont see an SA-6 or a Stinger blowing a fuselage into pieces with a 2 or 3 lb warhead. An S-300 or a patriot possibly but, there is such a thing as a lucky shot.

I don't know enough about CHICOM manpads however shoulder fired anti-aircraft missiles have limitations on the minimum distance before the missile tracks and there should be a minimum safe distance before the warhead arms.

If the Chinook was close enough to the gunner to score a bull's-eye with a ballistic grenade it was very possibly inside the MANPADS minimum distance .

I'm waiting on an email and I should have some further detail to post shortly

Originally posted by MajorKarma
reply to post by Stormdancer777

 

I have to wonder how many of you know what Navy Seals are trained for and do. Do you think they rescue? Do you think they give humanitarian aid? Ever seen Navy Seals playing Santa Claus at your local shopping mall? LOL FYI They are trained killers, assassins..that is all they do and I will take bets that their was not one man in this helicopter that does not have the blood of an innocent child on his hands. If there is God, a Heaven and Hell, where would you guess these Seals who died are right now? And don't give me any crap, I was a Marine for 5 years and did 3 tours of Vietnam.

edit on 6-8-2011 by MajorKarma because: (no reason given)

I was going to say exactly the same thing... about Seals being hired assassins.
what goes around comes around.

reply to post by Drunkenparrot


Well if you watched the clip from Al Jezerra the Taliban claim they used their latest technology to take it out.

Most of the Shoulder Fired weapons made in China have enough ball bearings in them that they will utterly devastate a airborne target killing everyone inside before it even explosion does, while it burst into a fire ball from the main explosion + fuel fire in air they crews most likely already dead. I have seen video of Russian Hinds and other Transport aircraft getting hit with Stingers from the soviet-afghan war, the entire aircraft is devastated, I've seen aircraft that were hit by RPG-7's nothing like a SAM.

Plus reason i doubt it was an RPG is because reports from middle eastern news agencies and south east Asian agencies say the Helicopter was moving pretty quick when it was hit, the MH-47G can go 191 NMH.

On top of that, it doesn't not have to be China Arming them, Iran has a ton of those weapons and constantly buys them ,and have been caught and admitting to arming the Taliban with advanced weaponry as of late.

Originally posted by summer5
I smell ANOTHER cover up.

There was no PROOF that OB was killed.

There was no PROOF that there was in fact the elite Seal team involved.

Will there be proof of the mourning families of these (supposed) Seal 6 killed?...I highly doubt it.

Lie, on top of lie, on top of lie.....

A structure of lies will always come crumbling down, lies have never been and never will be good foundations

This was posted yesterday as well...

"The White House clearly blessed the dramatic reconstruction of the mission by Nicholas Schmidle in The New Yorker — so vividly descriptive of the SEALS' looks, quotes and thoughts that Schmidle had to clarify after the piece was published that he had not actually talked to any of them.

"I'll just say that the 23 SEALs on the mission that evening were not the only ones who were listening to their radio communications," Schmidle said, answering readers' questions in a live chat, after taking flak for leaving some with the impression that he had interviewed the heroes when he wrote in his account that it was based on "some of their recollections."

The White House is also counting on the Kathryn Bigelow and Mark Boal big-screen version of the killing of bin Laden to counter Obama's growing reputation as ineffectual."

www.startribune.com...

It would be best if there was no one to refute the BIG SCREEN version of the President's heroism. There is literally no depth to which this administration will not sink to further its power.

Originally posted by summer5
I smell ANOTHER cover up.

There was no PROOF that OB was killed.

There was no PROOF that there was in fact the elite Seal team involved.

Will there be proof of the mourning families of these (supposed) Seal 6 killed?...I highly doubt it.

Lie, on top of lie, on top of lie.....

This was a normal enemy attack, nothing more, that is all you need to know, that is all you will know, war is hell, sometimes the enemy gets really lucky.

Now, move along, nothing more to see or discuss here.

Heroes have died in the service of your nation, fighting for your freedom and security.

Be proud of them, worship them, pray for them and their families...

What you don't know can't harm you.

Originally posted by Fractured.Facade

Originally posted by summer5
I smell ANOTHER cover up.

There was no PROOF that OB was killed.

There was no PROOF that there was in fact the elite Seal team involved.

Will there be proof of the mourning families of these (supposed) Seal 6 killed?...I highly doubt it.

Lie, on top of lie, on top of lie.....

This was a normal enemy attack, nothing more, that is all you need to know, that is all you will know, war is hell, sometimes the enemy gets really lucky.

Now, move along, nothing more to see or discuss here.

Heroes have died in the service of your nation, fighting for your freedom and security.

Be proud of them, worship them, pray for them and their families...

What you don't know can't harm you.

Said like a true politician

reply to post by wolfwood290


Congradulations on joining the fight. My friend you are misinformed SEALs fight everywhere. When i mean everywhere i mean everywhere. I can guarantee you that right this second we have navy SEALs in every country of interest. They do fight in the desert in the mountains and in the cities. I really wish people would read all the posts before posting themselves. It is obvious that you dint read the previous posts and just jumped on to give an opinion based on what you read somewhere. I have gone out of the wire with SEALs on many OPs. There was a team attached to us in Habniyah IRaq. Please get your facts straight

Originally posted by semperkill
reply to post by wolfwood290

 

Congradulations on joining the fight. My friend you are misinformed SEALs fight everywhere. When i mean everywhere i mean everywhere. I can guarantee you that right this second we have navy SEALs in every country of interest. They do fight in the desert in the mountains and in the cities. I really wish people would read all the posts before posting themselves. It is obvious that you dint read the previous posts and just jumped on to give an opinion based on what you read somewhere. I have gone out of the wire with SEALs on many OPs. There was a team attached to us in Habniyah IRaq. Please get your facts straight

I concur, but i did find it a bit strange that SEAL team 6 who seem to be an elite taskforce were right in the mix. you are obviously a military man and know more than others so your opinion would be highly regarded.

Thankyou

reply to post by hardboeilednwokilla

Well if you watched the clip from Al Jezerra the Taliban claim they used their latest technology to take it out.

Anyway I say this it is going to sound like a hater on the Taliban but its to good to pass...... How are you sure an RPG isnt the latest Taliban technology.

Most of the Shoulder Fired weapons made in China have enough ball bearings in them that they will utterly devastate a airborne target killing everyone inside before it even explosion does, while it burst into a fire ball from the main explosion + fuel fire in air they crews most likely already dead. I have seen video of Russian Hinds and other Transport aircraft getting hit with Stingers from the soviet-afghan war, the entire aircraft is devastated, I've seen aircraft that were hit by RPG-7's nothing like a SAM.

Ball bearings are a common shrapnel in proximity detonating anti-aircraft weapons systems.
My guess is they retain their energy longer and the ballistics are tamer than jagged scraps of pot metal.

The idea of the shrapnel is to make lots of little holes in vital systems. It only takes one BB in the right spot to bring an aircraft to the ground.

Helicopters are inherently fragile and inferior to aircraft in the robustness of the system to maintain flight. When helicopter rotors stop turning or break the helicopter falls.

Power off helicopter landings ( autorotation) give the pilot one chance. Auto rotating a combat loaded MI-24 through the rarefied mountain air after taking a stinger up the tailpipe is probably something your luck wont accommodate a second time.

There are some awesome Russian picture galleries from the Soviets try at de-fanging the Afghans in the 80's.

You don't realize how deeply the Mujahedeen bled them until your viewing 200+ pages of rusted derelict Soviet Aerospace tech randomly crumpled about the mountains and valleys.

Courtesy of General Electric, worlds largest distributor of Mig parts.

The Soviets had a much worse go than the U.S. but the Soviets were playing exceptionally dirty. nothing but destroyed Russian aviation In the context of surface to air helicopter defense.

Plus reason i doubt it was an RPG is because reports from middle eastern news agencies and south east Asian agencies say the Helicopter was moving pretty quick when it was hit, the MH-47G can go 191 NMH.

edit on 7-8-2011 by hardboeilednwokilla because: (no reason given)

One of us is getting poor information as the witnesses to the MH-47 shoot down specifically commented the aircraft was low with little forward speed. That is consistent as the pilot was near the designated LZ, I don't believe the pilots were attempting to disembark the SEAL response team at 150+knts.

I'll dig some more and post some links if anything definitive turns up.

There doesn't seem to be an immediate danger from MANPADS toting Afghani insurgents. I agree that their is a potential threat via an Iranian proxy however I had thought you had referenced indigenous Russian and Chinese systems.

Both of the Iranian systems are Chinese designs manufactured under license.

The Misagh-1 and -2 are the QW-1 Vanguard. Interestingly, the warhead weight is not quite 1.5 kilos. Both the Stinger and SA-14 and SA-16 pack considerably larger charges much closer to 20 kilo's

I'm curious and trying to find some MANPADS devastation on youtube.

Can you point me towards the video footage you are referencing?

How convenient.
The first thing that I found odd after hearing the story for the first time, was how fast that the DoD admitted that it was enemy fire that brought the chopper down.
In almost every other incident, when an aircraft is downed, they usually say that it was either mechanical problems or pilot error.
To coin a phrase, "somethings rotten in denmark"

reply to post by TriForce


I was reading a blog on a military aviation website that said the salvage recovery team was still waiting approval to recover the wreckage because the medics are still finding pieces of people scattered about.

Aircraft accident investigations can last for months and years.

Even in the most straightforward circumstance the case will be open for weeks.

I promise, you do not have a fatal air accident one day and get handed a report citing the cause on the next.

In the case of combat attrition, in this instance there is little need to conduct a forensic examination. An (alleged ) rocket propelled grenade fired by an enemy combatant triggered a sympathetic detonation(s) causing catastrophic failure of a critical system(s).

When you are having to rake the body pieces from the gravel cause of death is usually a no brainer as well.

Oops. Douple Post.

reply to post by Drunkenparrot


I would agreed on the RPG7 vs MANPAD item. Why would they not be shopping for ADA? Better yet, why would suppliers not be looking for live fire trials?

I saw the video some have spoken of but I would question its authenticity. It was too hard to tell what was going on.

Regardless, it still makes me upset and pissed off. Anytime one of our military gets killed, I feel that way. I know there are many on ATS who feel it is karmic justice. All I say to them is until you have been in those shoes, shut the hell up.

reply to post by Drunkenparrot

still waiting approval to recover the wreckage

I was going to bring that up

It seems a bit ridicolous that people are hearing different stories from seemingly valid sources. hmmmm i smell a conspiracy coming