Hate for the Jews, page 8

Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by patternfinder

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Jewish supremacy is about as meaningful as Christian, Muslim, or Hindu superiority.

I bet scientologists think their following the right path too.

Jewish is not merely a race, but a religion. Any non-Jew could convert and become a Jew.

Now, can a black "convert" to become white?

There is nothing inherently xenophobic about Judaism, or Jews. Theres a desire to keep away from what they percieve to be 'a pagan culture', but its IDEOLOGICAL, the separation, ie; its a religion, and not racial or ethnic.

ok, so do you think that i desire to be called pagan? i don't, i can tell you that....i'm not part of any religious sect but i believe in a creator...i can prove to myself beyond a doubt that there is one...i think that when a group of people practice religious prejudism, this means the jewish people too, that something is wrong...

I found this article today very interesting...

www.heraldsun.com.au...

Reminded me of a vague passage from the Talmud that allows them to do this sort of thing.

Originally posted by mazzroth
I found this article today very interesting...

www.heraldsun.com.au...

Reminded me of a vague passage from the Talmud that allows them to do this sort of thing.

edit on 7-9-2011 by mazzroth because: (no reason given)

Please post which passage you are referring to.

reply to post by mazzroth

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Are you sick?

There is no passage anywhere in any Jewish book that tolerates such a gross and repugnant action.

This man has undoubtedly done a great evil - if he is guilty - and if the community is protecting him, then theyre retarded.

I dont know why people do this. All i know is, this isnt JUDAISM!. Ok? I study Judaism, as a hobby, an im not even Jewish. I know what it teaches and it teaches very high standard of morality

To say the Talmud teaches this is essentially to equate Judaism with a kind of satanism, where child abuse is encouraged. Any person remotely knowledgeable of Judaism - and isnt living in fantasy land - knows how absolutely ridiculous that is.

reply to post by dontreally


Hi Don't Really -

Maybe you need to go to college and study Judaism more seriously - maybe take a paleoHebrew course and learn how to read the Torah in all their 'original' unpointed hate-filled consonants....

You celarly do NOT know what you are talking about -

Check out this thread and look up ALL the gentile-hate-filled sexist xenophobic, primitive, superstitious, genocidal 'holy war' references in the supposedly ancient 'Torah' THEN see if you can sit there and STILL claim what you just did again....with a straight face.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I mean really, open your eyes to the evidence in front of you....and above all....Learn to THINK !!

reply to post by Sigismundus

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Maybe you need to go to college and study Judaism more seriously -..

I Read Hebrew. Ive been studying Judaism, daily, for about 6 or 7 years now.

maybe take a paleoHebrew course and learn how to read the Torah in all their 'original' unpointed hate-filled consonants..

Whats so amazingly different about reading Hebrew in an earlier script??

Check out this thread and look up ALL the gentile-hate-filled sexist xenophobic, primitive, superstitious, genocidal 'holy war' references in the supposedly ancient 'Torah' THEN see if you can sit there and STILL claim what you just did again....with a straight face.

\
Calm your san francisco head down... You guys really get drunk on this stuff, dont you???

In my life, i have probably read the Hebrew Torah 10 or 15 times. I sincerely doubt you have even done that once. Thats about 30 pages of reading, daily, studying, probing the text. I am well acquainted with its contents.

I mean really, open your eyes to the evidence in front of you....and above all....Learn to THINK !!

What is this "evidence".... Do you want to go through each questionable item in the Torah, Neviyyim, and Ketuvim?

Point is. In terms of Judaism, there is nothing explicitly "gentile-hate-filled", infact, you can find items throughout Torah literature that gives an ambivalent perspective about non- Jews. In any case. Judaism is a religion. If you open up the annuls of Christian theological writings, you can find a great deal more ascerbic and hatefilled stuff.



And theres also nothing sexist, or primitive - since its a book of metaphysics , and absolutely no genocidal 'holy war'. Holy was is an Islamic concept. Till this day it is used in its literature as a means to fight against Allahs opponents, whether spiritual or political.

Additionally, those wars fought for Israel were just like other wars. The inhabitants, according to the Bible, were pagans. I take it you know what pagans do, and enjoy? Well, they had a very strong case of "moral relativism", and so allowed themselves to get ridiculously carried away in their day to day life. So, the Lord of the land - or God, as i call him, allowed the Hebrews to win, and displace the inhabitants.

When the Hebrews didnt honor the land they too got booted out - by the Babylonians. And again later, by the Romans.

reply to post by dontreally

Hey Don't

Are you seriously saying that the concept of HOLY WAR (Heb. 'CH-R-M') - lit. 'ritually mark for extermination') in the Torah does NOT exist? Are your crazy, orr just blind?

Or maybe ...you just can't read paleoHebrew ? (I think the latter is your problem, actually...)

Then read (in English, if that's all you can read !) Deuteronomy chapter 7 & Deuteronomy chapter 13 & Deuteronomy chapter 20 - all part of the 'holy Torah' of the Jews, especially with regard to the so-called Holy War against the Sons of Amalek (benei Amalekh) a.k.a. the Amalekites which YHWH emphatically states to the benei Yisro'el (Israelites), 'you shall utterly genocide the sons of Amalek from under Heaven...'

Most English translations prefer the standard verb 'smite' even though the word forms in the Hebrew is the intensive grammatical forms of the verb 'to kill' (intensives such as' piels' etc. are ultra-exrtreme ways of expressing a verb e.g. the intensive form of a verb such as 'sip it from a glass' would be e.g. 'drain it to the dreggs' etc.

Here is some more for you to chew on...since you seem to like to ignore hard evidence

Exodus 17: 8-16

And YHWH said to Mosheh, Write this down as a Memorial on a Scroll and read it into the ears of Joshua son of Nun : Behold, I will Exterminate the Seed (lit. ‘Remembrance’) of the Amalekites from Under the Heavens. Therefore Mosheh built an Altar to YHWH right there etc.

NB: the may hand-copied text versions s of the Torah and other Heb. ‘scriptures’ over the centuries (SamPent, Heb. Vorlage to the LXX Greek, the later Masoretic text,l the mangled earlier consonantal texts from the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Targumim etc.) especially the ones prior to AD 200 don’t always match letter for letter, but the gist is the same in these cases in most of the versions of the Torah etc.

See Deuteronomy 7: 1-5

When YHWH your clan god brings you to the land where you are headed to take possession of it, and has cast out the goyim before you even the Hittites, and the Girga#es, and the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites, even seven gentile nations that are more numerous and powerful that you are now:

And when YHWH your clan god has delivered them, you shall utterly exterminate them all showing no mercy to them; neither will you make peace treaties with them nor enter into marriage with them – for they will surely turn your sons from following me, and cause them to worship other clan gods – thus will the anger of YHWH burn against you and destroy you without notice.

Deuteronomy 13: 12-17a

12 If you should hear a rumour in one of the towns which YHWH your clan god will give you to live in, saying ‘I heard certain evil men taking some of the town out encouraging them to worship other foreign clan gods which you have not yet heard of, you shall set up an Inquiry and if the acusation is proved true that such a ritual Toqebah (‘cultic abomination’) has in fact taken place, you will utterly genocide all the inhabitants of that town, utterly destroying the town and its inhabitants, even down to the animals – then you will gather together all of their belongings and utterly burn the lot in the town square – and not take any of it for yourself, and leave it a perpetual Ruin, never again to be rebuilt.

Deuteronomy 20: 10-18

This is the Rule of War for the Towns of the Goyim which YHWH your clan god shall give unto you and your sons as an Inheritance – You shall leave nothing alive that breathes, but you shall utterly exterminate every one of them, namely the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites; exactly as YHWH your clan god has commanded you, so that they will not be able to teach you all of their peculiar ritual Toq’eboth (‘taboos’, ‘cultic abominations’) that they perform for their own clan gods, leading you into sin against YHWH your clan god.

Deuteronomy 25:17-19

Now remember what Amalekites (lit. ‘Amalek’) did to you when you were sojourning out of the land of Mitzrayim : how they came upon you on the road and attacked your rear guard, including the weakest ones in your camps, and how they showed no reverence for the Elohim (‘gods’) – therefore it shall come to pass that when the land you shall be given by you own clan god YHWH is finally settled and becomes your Inheritance to possess, you shall utterly genocide the Seed of Amalek (lit. ‘Remembrance’) from under the heavens – you will never ever forget this.

Outside the Torah, we have references to ‘fulfillment of the Divine Commands to genocide’ the goyim in books like Joshua and 1 Samuel, in the context of the (CH-R-M) i.e. the Holy War ‘devoted’ marking of a particular group for racial and cultural Extermination and Genocide of the other’: -

Are you blind?

reply to post by Sigismundus

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No...Not blind. Just not interested in playing your little game.

In everything you write, you strive with such earnestness, and strong emotion (a clever sorcerors trick) to present Judaism in the most evil, and immoral light. They hate women, they hate gentiles, etc... It is obvioust to me what you are. You know i know what you are. Which means you are going to try even harder. Its like a maze with people like you. Always going deeper and deeper. Webbing lies like a spider....

As for Charem, the Brown, Driver Briggs Hebrew and English lexicon translates that word as "ban, devote, exterminate", so i have no clue where you get holy war from.

Even in Islam, jihad, means "to strive", so any sort of striving, whether spiritual, or physical, is a striving against something which impedes your progress.

This Hebrew word has no such meaning. Youre just mutating it to fit your diabolical agenda.

Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by mazzroth

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Are you sick?

There is no passage anywhere in any Jewish book that tolerates such a gross and repugnant action.

This man has undoubtedly done a great evil - if he is guilty - and if the community is protecting him, then theyre retarded.

I dont know why people do this. All i know is, this isnt JUDAISM!. Ok? I study Judaism, as a hobby, an im not even Jewish. I know what it teaches and it teaches very high standard of morality

To say the Talmud teaches this is essentially to equate Judaism with a kind of satanism, where child abuse is encouraged. Any person remotely knowledgeable of Judaism - and isnt living in fantasy land - knows how absolutely ridiculous that is.

you aren't allowed to see the real scripture because you aren't jewish...

reply to post by dontreally

Hey Don't (since you really DON'T understand much) --

The paleo Hebrew tri-literal technical term "CH-R-M" is ONLY to be understood in a ritual/cultic/liturgical contextual sense of lit. 'mark in advance for ritual extermination' - which is very much like the so-called Coloured Star System used by the NAZIs in the 1930s and 1940s in greater Germany - who marked their OWN Political 'enemies' (e.g. socialists & communists), brown-skinned persons/'gypsies', violent criminals, the elderly, the sick, the mentally handicapped, sexual deviants and Jews PRIOR to interring them into the Camps for their own kind of ritual-extermination.

Contrary to your jejune understanding of these things, the paleoHeb term CH-R-M (as any modern Hebrew scholar will assuredly tell you !) has absolutely EVERYTHING to do with the idea of the ancient tribalistic 'holy wars' in the ancient Levant i.e. between the armed-invasions of the tent-dwelling-nomadic 'benei yisro'el' against the imbedded aboriginal city-dwelling Canaanitish tribelets beginning in the 12 century BCE - whom the benei Yisro'el routinely referred to as the 'goyim' (i.e. non-Israelites) who had been occupying the region for Millenia in the Levant - or more specifically the area that has been normally referred to as 'Palestina' - since at least Roman times...

Now, in order for you to get a better understand of all this, you really need to re-read the latest edition of BDB (Brown, Driver & Briggs) and carefully see all the contexts given in English for CH-R-M - since you clearly have missed the point they were trying to make - can you understand even basic paleoHebrew syntax?

At any rate, it seems clear that you really need to take a college-level paleoHebrew class so you can learn what paleoHebrew cultic language is and how it is generally applied in the various ancient 'Torah's socio-religious political vocabulary in the original contexts. The time for home-schooling in these matters is over.

Having done the necessary research on these matters, you might then find yourself in for quite a shock - that is to say, when you are intelligently able to examine the historical 'sitz im leben' for the highly technical applications of the concept of ritual extermination of The Other under the generic heading of the Torah based term: CH-R-M - 'cultically mark for genocide' or 'ritually mark (in advance) for racial-extermination.' This is what is imbedded into the text of the Torah.

If you cannot see this, it may well be that you (like other amongst the blind-faithful') simply do not wish to see the evidence in front of you very closely

And having done so, if you STILL cannot see the very direct relation between the Orange Star Syndrome of the Nazi's in the 1930s/1940's Germany and the CH-R-M of the supposedly ancient un-Holy Torah of the Jews, then you might well have to take a German language course & read MEIN KAMPF for a line for line comparison with the paleoHebrew 'Torah'.

As an exercise, do a Torah-word-search (in English, if that's all you can read) on the word AMALEKITE and see what you come up with. You will see the same kind of racist language regarding them as the Nazi's did to those persons they considered to be The Other.

Also, carefully read all the various postings found in this very important ATS discussion of the CH-R-M-based racial-genocidal policies imbedded in all the Torah -

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Then perhaps we can finally have somethnig approaching an intelligent discussion pursuant to actual facts on the whole matter of Torah based extermination policies, rather than your simplistic and jejune postings which only make you look even more un-informed than you already seem to be at present....

reply to post by Sigismundus

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Im not playing sigismundus.

Discuss your Gnostic Jew hatred with someone who doesnt know any better.

reply to post by dontreally

Hey there, Don't --

Is THAT all you have to say for yourself? Well, ten you really DON'T know much, after all, about this whole subject.

So...perhaps it IS best that you leave this discussion for others more educated than yourself on all the nuances and paleoHebrew technicalities that bear upon this discussiion that have been eluding you.

You are not (as yet !) qualified to do so, evidently.

But, as I say, there is always hope for future elucidation - especially for all those groping in the dark....you haven't a clue as to what the actual facts of the matter involve...

Tsk Tsk Tsk...

reply to post by Sigismundus

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Is THAT all you have to say for yourself? Well, ten you really DON'T know much, after all, about this whole subject.

Yea.. youre right..you must be..... I dont have two 6 foot shelves full of books on Judaism, Jewish philosophy, Kabbalah, Chassiduth, Mussar etc.

Would you like me to take a picture of those shelves, with me and a piece of my paper with my username standing beside it???

In your life, you will probably never read as much as i have on this subject. I have alteast 250 books on it. Right now im reading "strive for Truth" by Rabbi Eliyahu Dessler. Also reading Adin Steinsaltz "Rebbe Nachmans stories"... Both amazing books.

But, i also study non-Jewish philosophy. I have a particular interest in Gnostic/Hermetic/Theosophical literature. ..so im well acquainted with their rabid hatred of the "demiurge", and so the Jew, whom they regard as the projection of the demiurge, or ego principle, in physical reality......

I know the total disregard and contempt for morals, right and wrong Gnostics have. So, it would be waste of time to debate you. Instead, im going to continue pointing out what kind of person you are, and why you are writing what you are writing about Judaism, and for what reasons.

I have one more thing to say, Paleo-Hebrew is nothing "special". It is simply transplanting Hebrew from the assyrian square script into an older script. It doesnt change the language einstein.

reply to post by dontreally

But, i also study non-Jewish philosophy. I have a particular interest in Gnostic/Hermetic/Theosophical literature. ..so im well acquainted with their rabid hatred of the "demiurge", and so the Jew, whom they regard as the projection of the demiurge, or ego principle, in physical reality......

I'm not up on all that Gnostic/Hermetic/Theosophical literature, but by "demiurge" you refer to the character who claims to be the creator, which Judaism and 99% of Christians take to be Yahweh. Am I correct so-far?

Just how much respect should I, as a Gentile, have for this Yahweh, who wants nothing but to see me killed? And if not killed outright, at least enslaved? And if this inherently impotent Yahweh must use worshipful minions to carry out his plans toward me, shouldn't I then consider these minions as the "hands and feet" of Yahweh?

I've known many people who were baptized as Christians as infants, who when they grew up abandoned Christianity. There is nothing whatsoever to prevent Jews from giving up being Jews. It's completely a choice. So, I for one give the call "You worshipers of Yahweh, come and let us serve other gods, gods that do not command genocide!"

You should know already that the invitation I just gave has marked me for destruction, courtesy of Torah.

reply to post by dontreally


Hi Don't

As usual your last post to me was full of nonsense and innacuracies - and your worthless library of useless books does not seem to include any ancient Levantine language instruction - you should have started with these so you can read the texts that you claim to believe in their original languages - otherwise you are just groping in the dark, forever confusing and vexing yourself (this trait of gross-frustration at not even being able to understand 'the basics' is quite evident in most of your posts....more's the pity...)

But before you go way off on a tangent about Assyrian cuneiform (about which you evidently know little), you need to be brought back to reality.

In point of fact (something with which you play fast and loose on ATS) the older paleoHebrew Aleph-Beth was actually taken over from an older Phoenecian alephbetic script called UGARITIC (i.e. Syro-Phoenecian) - since the nomadic benei Yisro'el 'invaders' had no written language off their own and naturally, to keep any written records once they began to become 'semi-nomadic' and began to encroach on the hill country of the Levant - they had to steal ....er....(or,more politely...'to borrow)' the older written horned Phoencean (paleoUgarit) aleph-beth - which was the highly ingenious product of several hundred years of these cultured and wide-wandering sea-faring peoples (the Phoenecians, being essentially a sea-going people travelled extensively in ancient times) andd naturally came across hundreds of different languages in their trade routes - some of these cultures were found as far west as the pillars of Hercules in Spain - and finding phono-syllabic writing systems too cumbersome to cope with so many different languages - simply reduced / broke down the audible sound bytes to what eventually became the near familiar 22 letter aleph-beth - one of the profoundest achievements for ancient man (though even modern 'Jews' often ake undue credit for the invention..what else is new ..)

The later, square (now familiar) 'Aramaic' lettering system which eventually replaced the earlier paleoHebrew aleph beth (despite many of the Dead Sea Scrolls being copied in Paleo as late as 10 CE) was not introduced to 'eretz Yisro'el' until the time of Ezra the Sofer (c. 460 BCE) when coming back to ruined-Palestine from Babylonia under Persian auspices had found it necessary to re-compile and write down (and heavilly revise in the process, in the light of historical events surroudning the Babylonian Exile) all the earlier written paleoHeb and oral traditions, laws, precepts of the Torah etc. with a post-Exilic ('hindsight') Weltanschauung...and a midrashic recasting of the various scribal traditions he inherited (tradition holds that he summoned 5 different scribes and had them recite their own traditions - with Ezra acting more of a 'late priestly editor' hence the 5 literary styles and source material for the final editions of the Pentateuch familiar to-day among Graf Wellhausen students viz. - J, E, P, D and Redactor(s).

The paleo-Hebrew texts do not match each other at Qumran, as you may or may not know. But of course you will not be able to read any of them yourself until you take a paleoHebrew course - by reading the commentaries of other persons (and not yourself delving into 'first hand' documents in the language these writings were originally written) you remind me of the high-school student in Los Angeles who bragged of reading 150 books on 'Shakespeare', but never actually read any of the plays themselves - or even saw a single one of them performed on the stage. In order to understand Shakespeare, you have to read and compare the various versions of all the plays written 'under his name' in all their varied editions - which necessitates a thorough study of Shakespearean English first - and also it is necessary to actually see them performed, the more times the better.

The same holds for any study of ancient theologies - one cannot even hope to understand the 'Hebrew' scriptures without a solid grounding in paleoHebrew and in Aramaic (since the so-called Old Testament is written in both, and there are later targumic Aramaic versions of older texts which bear witness to older readings than e.g. the Masoretic or the Greek translations e.g. LXX, Symmachus, Aquilla or Theodotion, the latter set is often quoted in Greek in the Greek New Testament mss).

So...if you are going to build a library in order to gain any useful knowledge, go out a buy some basic Hebrew & Aramaic grammars and then you can branch out into Koine Greek - so you can read the mangled NT hand written text copies in their originals too...and see what a mess they really are, up close and personal

So far you have not shown any evidence at all that you have done any of this...hence your gross ignorance of even the basic facts.

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