I don't believe in "God" so why shouldn't God be taken out of the pledge?

Originally posted by Gorman91
Obviously like any group its leaders have been wrong, but I'd beg to question any good examples of the common man in other places before Christianity entered into them.

Well, you dont need to beg. You can just start with ancient Greece.

Greece, pagan multiple God worshipping ancient Greece, was pretty top shelf in terms of a whole lot of stuff. Of course depending on how biased you are about Christianity, I am sure you can fumble around for some excuses why they dont measure up, but many of the ideas they developed long before Jesus was even born at at the very foundation of our society, our science, etc.

Originally posted by XJMattYou ask all of the so called " GOD believers" to not infringe on your rights and beliefs yet you insist on infringing on ours? kind of bass-ackwards no?

Stop being so god-damned irrational! IF "one nation, under NO god," were added, then you're rights would be infringed upon. Keeping the word, "god," in the pledge is DIVISIVE.

If Christians EVER wonder why they aren't liked, look no further, because this thread explains it. Here's some advice to all of you rational Christians out there (this applies to rational Muslims as well). When the people within your religion ass like asshats, SMACK THEM DOWN.

This guy got it best

Originally posted by Badgered1
I cannot fail to find humour in the irony of "...one nation, under god, indivisible..." only to have that line so sweeping divide the people.

You cannot insist that Americans are 'under god.' It's just as helpful to say, "One nation, all with hair, indivisible" and expecting bald people just go with it. The inclusion is a divisive vehicle. You cannot be indivisible and divided at the same time. Justice for all? Well, for all those who are happy with the text, I guess.

Brilliant!

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


Yea, along with endless divisive wars, rape and enslavement of virgins for said gods, the rare human sacrifice, and many other problems. Just about the only sane ones in Greece were the stoics and atheists. whom were not the common man, but the learned. And from their learning, they couldn't believe the utter retardation of the common man and were driven to no religion rather then worshiping rapists, cannibalistic gods.

reply to post by XJMatt


And the Crusades were just a jaunt through the country side?

The 'Inquisition' a friendly game show?

Indigenous cultures who must renounce their entire way of being so they may be worthy to get some food from the generous missionaries?

Why do all Christians think that they have some monopoly on the true intent of this character they call God?

Their own book is literally full of stories of people who didn't understand how 'God' worked, or thought, AND the folly of those who knew they did.

Such a load of Bull[snip].

It's easy to say that this country is founded on Christian principles, unless you happen to peruse a History Book.

Or are a Native American.

Or remember the fact that those same tax evading founding fathers also owned other people.

How Christian is that?

Apparently very, since you're all on here denying the very simple premise that we are free to worship anything we want, or not worship anything or anyone at all.

'Under God' has no place in something we force our kids to say everyday.

It's not our business, and that is the bottom line.

Click here for more information.

reply to post by XJMatt


So, as an American, it doesn't bother you that we force those 8% to say something they do not believe?

That's not freedom, that's totalitarianism.

Originally posted by jimnuggits
reply to post by XJMatt

 

So, as an American, it doesn't bother you that we force those 8% to say something they do not believe?

That's not freedom, that's totalitarianism.

Again you have no concept of freedom. NO ONE FORCES ANYONE to SAY anything PERIOD. it is FREEDOM you are FREE to say or NOT SAY anything you please. but the usa is a Democracy meaning majority rules. meaning the 8% have been out voted by the 92% .

When the 92% says we dont want god in the pledge believe me I wont whine or cry about it at all. But the fact that the 8% nearly DEMAND that the 92% change the traditional wording to suit them is ludicrous. regardless of how much the 8% want to bad mouth or nit pick the 92%.

Originally posted by bftroop your "FREEDOM" is based on a God given right. It doesn't say Jesus or christian. It means your God has given you freedom. If you are Atheist than your god is you.

Yes, I feel that I have the right to be free because freedom benefits me. However, if a large entity takes away my freedom, as it has been, I have little recourse as do you believers. So, who gives us freedom is a moot point. The important question is, who can and is taking away our freedom?

Originally posted by XJMatt When the 92% says we dont want god in the pledge believe me I wont whine or cry about it at all. But the fact that the 8% nearly DEMAND that the 92% change the traditional wording to suit them is ludicrous. regardless of how much the 8% want to bad mouth or nit pick the 92%.

Congress officially recognized the Pledge of Allegiance in 1942

usgovinfo.about.com...
"under God" is an isolating and non uniting part of the pledge. I won't take the pledge, but a divisive and unproven concept that is a means of mind control, never mind the actual pledge, should not be in it. It goes against what the country is about. This country is not about Christianity. If it is, where are the laws respecting Christianity?

reply to post by XJMatt


Traditional?

I guess 50 years can a tradition make, but you've missed the point.

It is a requirement in many classrooms, and it is said every single day.

I would rather not have a state funded religious phrase in something that most teachers and administrators demand the children say.

I have taken much heat in my school for allowing my kids to NOT say it.

You are defending this OBVIOUS inclusion of Religious dogma into a State funded system because it is how YOU see things.

It would serve your religion more if you responded by saying 'the pledge should be God free, out of respect for all faiths, or lack thereof.'

Instead, you do as Christians have done for two millennia, and say, 'We're awesome and you suck, heretic. Do as we say!''

"Hi, I'm the pledge of allegiance. I've been around for over a hundred years, and part of the government for over 50!"

"Hi, I'm a Christian. I believe in God and have grown up with the pledge of allegiance."

"Hi, I'm an Atheist. I don't believe in God so therefore it doesn't matter what it says. It may as well say one nation under the flying spaghetti monster."


I really don't get it lately. Isn't the point of Atheism that they don't believe in God or any supreme being? So why does it matter? If God is as real as the Easter Bunny or Santa Clause then who cares?

I swear, nowadays it seems like Atheism is more about hating religion more so than washing your hands of it.

Originally posted by gentledissident

Originally posted by XJMatt When the 92% says we dont want god in the pledge believe me I wont whine or cry about it at all. But the fact that the 8% nearly DEMAND that the 92% change the traditional wording to suit them is ludicrous. regardless of how much the 8% want to bad mouth or nit pick the 92%.

Congress officially recognized the Pledge of Allegiance in 1942

usgovinfo.about.com...
"under God" is an isolating and non uniting part of the pledge. I won't take the pledge, but a divisive and unproven concept that is a means of mind control, never mind the actual pledge, should not be in it. It goes against what the country is about. This country is not about Christianity. If it is, where are the laws respecting Christianity?

While I agree that the "Under God" might be an divisive part of the pledge it still remains that it IS wanted by the MAJORITY of United States Citizens. Meaning that as a democracy it was decide upon so it is so. If the people voted to take " Under God" out of the Pledge then so be it that is fine. But as soon as 8% of the population can basically control what the other 92% want, we might as well scrap the ENTIRE constitution as well because democracy apperantly does not and cannot work.

I also fail to see how it is a form of mind control. Is your mind or any other human mind so easily controlled by a simple word?

I have heard praise allah a million billion times and not one time yet have I EVER felt compelled to convert to islam.

If the human mind is so easily controlled then " under god" in a pledge that MOST people recite few times in comparison to the rest of there lifetime should be the LAST of any human beings worries.

Just sayin....

Originally posted by jimnuggits
It is a requirement in many classrooms, and it is said every single day.

I would rather not have a state funded religious phrase in something that most teachers and administrators demand the children say.

I have taken much heat in my school for allowing my kids to NOT say it.

in 1943, the Supreme Court ruled that public school students could not be forced to recite it.

usgovinfo.about.com...
Maybe you'd like to point the school board to this decision.

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by Illusionsaregrander

 

Yea, along with endless divisive wars, rape and enslavement of virgins for said gods, the rare human sacrifice, and many other problems. Just about the only sane ones in Greece were the stoics and atheists. whom were not the common man, but the learned. And from their learning, they couldn't believe the utter retardation of the common man and were driven to no religion rather then worshiping rapists, cannibalistic gods.

Last time I checked, Christian nations have had divisive wars, rape and enslavement of all kinds of people too, havent they?

You really cannot in any way attach our letting go of those practices to Christianity since Christianity was present for about 1850 years of that behavior. And lets not forget, the divisive wars are still going on, just not in America.

Christianity is absolutely NOT responsible for any improvement in the character of the common man. Or the behavior of the common man for that matter. And while you cannot accuse them of sacrificing virgins to their gods, you certainly can accuse them of sacrificing "savage heathens" to their God all over the world. And torturing men and women alike who refused to convert, or who werent Christian enough.

Not a whole hell of a lot has changed because of Jesus. Except that there are a lot of people butchering his teachings, and sinning like mad bastards while feeling sure they will go to heaven anyway thanks to the fact he was slaughtered as a sacrifice to their God.

Originally posted by XJMatt it IS wanted by the MAJORITY

en.wikipedia.org...
Where is the vote?

Originally posted by XJMatt I also fail to see how it is a form of mind control. Is your mind or any other human mind so easily controlled by a simple word?

I have heard praise allah a million billion times and not one time yet have I EVER felt compelled to convert to islam.

Did you accept Christianity? Then you will accept other illogical concepts. Parents want to control their children with Santa and God. Government wants to control everyone.

reply to post by gentledissident


Yes, and I'll be finding a new job right after.

For some other reason, of course.

There are screws that you tighten, and ones best left loose...

Somehow, by allowing my kids to be quiet during the recitation of the pledge, I become the Un American one...

How's that work?

Oh, yeah, I remember. Christian Hypocrits run everything...

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


Don't you get it?

If everyone just did as our Christian brethern said, everything would be so much easier!

We'd all be a bunch of the happ-happ-happiest morons the world has ever seen!

Originally posted by jimnuggits
reply to post by XJMatt

 

Traditional?

I guess 50 years can a tradition make, but you've missed the point.

It is a requirement in many classrooms, and it is said every single day.

I would rather not have a state funded religious phrase in something that most teachers and administrators demand the children say.

I have taken much heat in my school for allowing my kids to NOT say it.

You are defending this OBVIOUS inclusion of Religious dogma into a State funded system because it is how YOU see things.

It would serve your religion more if you responded by saying 'the pledge should be God free, out of respect for all faiths, or lack thereof.'

Instead, you do as Christians have done for two millennia, and say, 'We're awesome and you suck, heretic. Do as we say!''

I see your point and as I stated many times, I DO NOT care if you or yours say under god or do NOT say under god. The point is that the MAJORITY want it in so it should be left alone until such time as the masses wanting it removed.

I agree that it should be PURELY by choice to say it in school period. If a parent does not want their child to say under god that is fine. But then you also have to ask yourself, do YOU as a seemingly reasonable and intelligent adult have the exact same beliefs as your parents or family? Just because you do not agree with it how do you know your child believes what you believe?.

A school FORCING you or your child to say the pledge is not really an ISSUE with the pledge anyways its actually an issue with freedom and you and your childs freedom to chose whether or not you say it.

I will agree that if my child was Forced to do ANYTHING against their free will by anyone that person would recive a size 13 so far up their backside they would burp up my shoe laces.

As a father to another parent I can see you being upset that the school gives you so much drama about you not wanting your child/ren to say the pledge and I feel you in your plight.

Originally posted by gentledissident

Originally posted by XJMatt it IS wanted by the MAJORITY

en.wikipedia.org...
Where is the vote?

Originally posted by XJMatt I also fail to see how it is a form of mind control. Is your mind or any other human mind so easily controlled by a simple word?

I have heard praise allah a million billion times and not one time yet have I EVER felt compelled to convert to islam.

Did you accept Christianity? Then you will accept other illogical concepts. Parents want to control their children with Santa and God. Government wants to control everyone.

Please do prove to me how accepting christianity is an illogical concept. I will gladly renownce my faith if you can PROVE to me beyond a shadow of a doubt that christianity is a falsity and is an illogical idea.

Personally I believe being Athiest is illogical, Life and the amazing things around us suggest a divine energy and or creator. So to me athiesm seems highly illogical. Do i know FOR SURE no I don not as such I do not claim to know nor do I FORCE my beliefs on anyone period.

edit: oh yeah i also forgot please state source for the vote to remove it? I never claimed there was a vote but you have implied it.

reply to post by XJMatt
Public schools are a government institution. The mere suggestion that there might be a God has no place there despite what a majority wants. Religion is not to be encouraged in school as it is not science. There is nothing wrong with religion being taught in mythology classes as history and philosophy.

Personally, I think practicing religion is a dangerous mind game and would object on those grounds as well.