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I don't believe in "God" so why shouldn't God be taken out of the pledge?

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posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 02:48 AM
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reply to post by SaturnFX
 


what does the fall of pagan rome do for your point of view?


nothing, i'd say.




posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 02:51 AM
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Originally posted by fooks wow, very fullfilling life!
I take that to be sarcasm. What do you know of my life?



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 02:52 AM
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Originally posted by TheButcher23
Atheists are one step above Religious people. They have sense and an openness that religious people do not. Atheists do not need to hide behind a wall of pretense in order to feel good about what they do.

As this is 2011 and no 565 AD the belief in god should be taken as a joke or light comedy at best.

In the UK they place the Queen on their money and show "allegiance" to her. (Well they are supposed to).

In the US it seems that god is more of a brainwashing technique rather than any form of true morality in which to live your life by.

Look at what America is doing to the world and ask yourselves if this is really people who fear a god. I think not.

Having god in the pledge is just a form of overlord type forceful mind control that makes people feel part of something that is really not there.



god won't come and arrest you for talking rag time about him, now will he?


to the tower with this swag!



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 03:55 AM
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Originally posted by TheButcher23
Atheists are one step above Religious people. They have sense and an openness that religious people do not. Atheists do not need to hide behind a wall of pretense in order to feel good about what they do.

As this is 2011 and no 565 AD the belief in god should be taken as a joke or light comedy at best.


Well, if this is what it means to be atheist and religious, respectively. I'll gladly take agnosticism. The amount of contradictions here is quite self-evident to anyone with a sincere openness.



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 04:19 AM
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Originally posted by georgewvess
reply to post by newcovenant
 
As B. Franklin said, there is two ways of thinking. There is right thinking, people who recognize the evidence in all things that God exists. Then there is the wrong thinkers who for one reason or another, denies Gods existence. God does not require our faith in Him to exist, His laws still have power over us. That is we still suffer the consequences of breaking his laws whether we like it or not. As it is said in the scriptures, an atheist is a fool. No insult intended, people have the right to believe or disbelief, but that does not free us from the consequences of our choices.This is reality.


Thank you for your reply. I tend to think like you but must remind you there have been so many discoveries since then I wonder if B Franklin would say the same today. I believe God is universal and timeless, if He does in fact exist.



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 04:29 AM
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Originally posted by hawaii50th
reply to post by newcovenant
 

All this useless talk about taking God out, all the while what's really being taken out is freedom. When freedom is gone than all the useless talk will be turned into tears and crying. And then the reality of what happened while many were wasting their precious time looking in all the wrong places will be realized, but by then it will have been too late for most.
For the past 40 years freedom has been taken for granted, money and entertainment has become the new god in this spoiled rotten society.




It is easy to see we lost something over the course of the last half century. I am not sure what though. It might have been naivety. I know TV advertises "look what other people have and you don't" and without that in our face daily we would not be tempted by such overwhelming want and greed, so I blame television and not the loss of "religion" for some of the most drastic criminal acts and moral depravity we see today.



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 04:33 AM
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Originally posted by guitarplayer
reply to post by newcovenant
 


Ok all the atheists you want under God take off the pledge because we are a secular government. Then by all means do it and while you’re at it let remove all religious holiday vacation days that government employees get paid for, and I sure don’t see how you could possible take that Christmas bonus and Thanks giving day off with pay too all you who sdon't work for the government. I just know you all say no pay for me or I’m willing to come to work and earn my religious holiday pay.



I wondered this too. If we are not all Christians what is he doing on my vacation!
Well we need reasons to take vacations and I think they are calling Christmas Winter Break now. The vacations will stay but I don't think we will even miss this small item in the Pledge. When was the last time you said it anyway? Thanks for your reply!



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 04:41 AM
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Originally posted by felonius
reply to post by newcovenant
 


Being as God/Christianity was the foundation of this country (and yes, we have fallen far too far from that) removal of that foundation will cause the fall of said edifice.

You can see the results of this easily. Corruption is rampant, we have brown shirts at the airport, we have all of these idiot kids (backed by who knows who) screaming "kill whitey". yeah. As an aside, it would be interesting to see the reports if they were skinheads doing the reverse. Oh, wait. Only whitey is racist.

Back on point.

If someone is an atheist and has an issue with our foundation, they are welcome to take their happy ass to any of four points. they are not needed and they are not doing us any favors by bitchin about the rest of us that are trying to patch our foundations.




Thank you for your spirited and candid reply. You are very firm in both conviction and belief and I applaud that.
Many wonder about the actual religiosity of the founding fathers since a many were unapologetically atheist. I will not attempt to disagree with you. This is in totality the opposing argument.



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 04:50 AM
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Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
reply to post by newcovenant
 


I'm a bit late coming into the topic and I'm sure this will have been said in this thread:

the argument is that having Under God in the pledge violates the 1st amendment. It doesn't matter if you're an atheist or a theist or are unlabeled, everyone should be against the government supporting religion as it directly contradicts the constitution. It's not just atheists. What if you were a polytheist who believed in multiple gods, now you have the official pledge of allegiance supporting a monotheistic capital G GOD.

Now personally I don't think the pledge is that big a deal (I'm an atheist btw) since they don't force kids to say it. I remember way back when in high school most didn't even say the pledge and those that did mumbled through it (about all the allegiance you can get from a teenager at 9 AM
), religious or not most kids didn't even bother. I say get rid of the pledge altogether.

edit on 27-6-2011 by Titen-Sxull because: (no reason given)



Many people have said get rid of the pledge altogether. I never really thought about it but the idea is growing on me. You are right about kids at 9am. I got a laugh and a flashback with that little memory.
The recent Supreme Court decision to keep the phrase was not citing 1st Amendment violation as it should have, they were afraid to go there fearing a backlash from evangelists. I think that was disingenuous and cowardice from the Supreme Court but I have learned not to expect much more from the panel of Corporate shills.



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 04:55 AM
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Originally posted by Rockdisjoint
reply to post by newcovenant
 


The ``pledge`` should be thrown out altogether.

Why do people feel the need to pledge allegiance to a flag anyway?
edit on 26-6-2011 by Rockdisjoint because: (no reason given)



Of all the answers so far this one seems to be the most popular.
Truthfully until you mentioned it I hadn't considered it and now I am having thoughts as to why we say it in the first place? This may be a necessary step and the first way to capture a mind, a body and if you believe in them, a soul.



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 05:01 AM
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Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by newcovenant
 


Because Communists don't believe in the Republic.

Being a republic, the nonacceptance of some does not necessitate a change. It's the same reason why we don't allow fascists to not say republic.
edit on 27-6-2011 by Gorman91 because: (no reason given)


Yes you are right during the McCarthy era it was kept based on a completely false premise but there is quite a bit more to it than that. You can find more at this link if you wish.

The change was partly motivated by a desire to differentiate between communism, which promotes Atheism, and Western capitalistic democracies, which were at least nominally Christian. The phrase "Atheistic Communists" has been repeated so many times that the public has linked Atheism with communism; the two are often considered synonymous. Many consider Atheism as unpatriotic and "un-American" as communism. www.religioustolerance.org...


And yet !!!

Most communists, worldwide, are Atheists. But, in North America, the reverse is not true; most Atheists are non-communists.

edit on 28-6-2011 by newcovenant because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 05:15 AM
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reply to post by gentledissident
 



Originally posted by gentledissident

Originally posted by fooks wow, very fullfilling life!
I take that to be sarcasm. What do you know of my life?


what do i know about your life?

it's a desert, nothing has touched you at all.

you forget when you could have died or been killed

doing stupid kid things or family members having close calls? look, even dying, anger is ok.

love? smelling the grass, looking at clouds, where is the child?

many things i could ask, words you can spew and it won't change a thing.

except you.

no worries mate, god will not bother with you, if i have anything to say. i am not one of the "you will be saved, no matter what" people.

and this is way outside the op. sorry.



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 07:05 AM
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reply to post by AllIsOne
 


Actually mate that is a miss-nomer. The seperation of church and state is this. There is no one national religion, as during the times of england. Chatholisim. During the time of the drafting of the declaration of independance, englands offical religion was chatholic. The speration of chruch and state in the U.S. is there would be not a signle NATIONAL religion, not no religion of any kind. This was to support the First Amendment of Freedom of Religion.

Not aimed at you, but I wish people would get this right and learn the history of this, it would end a lot of these debats.

Grim
edit on 28/6/2011 by Grimmley because: Fingers are not as fast as brain....



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 07:21 AM
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reply to post by newcovenant
 


Here it is again:


Originally posted by Grimmley

Originally posted by Rockdisjoint
reply to post by newcovenant
 


The ``pledge`` should be thrown out altogether.

Why do people feel the need to pledge allegiance to a flag anyway?
edit on 26-6-2011 by Rockdisjoint because: (no reason given)


Ok just to get this off my chest. The Flag of the United States of America, is our national identity. Before you flame me hear me out. First the U.S. being a diverese nation with no one specific ethnic background as most other nations on the planet. So the Flag and the Constitution are what binds us as a nation. There by pledging allegiance to the Flag is pledging your allegiance to your nation and the Constitution.

If your ashamed to pledge your allegiance to the one symbol of our country, then you need to rethink where you live. Before you say why I would want to pledge my allegiance to a country that is going through alot of turmoil from various angles, we are still the best nation on God's green earth. Yes our nation has it's own problems, and yes we will find our way through it, that is the American way. If you have shame or disapprove of that than move.

Also remember this in closing, your pledging your allegiance to your nation and the Constitution not anything anyone or anything else.

Grim


That is why we say the Pledge of Allegiance... THE AMERICAN FLAG IS THE UNIFIED SYMBOL OF THE U.S.A.

Grim



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 07:29 AM
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Originally posted by XJMatt

Originally posted by yeti101
reply to post by schuyler
 


i would say you need to take it out because it makes america look like a bunch of religious wack jobs
which actually isn't far from the truth especially the right wing.

The christian god is not factually proven. God didn't you give you any freedoms the people who fought in the revolution did. How about giving credit where credits due instead of to an imaginary sky man? I find it scary one of the most technologically advanced nations on earth goes on about religion so much .

Despite this religious stuff in america they're still the most socially backward nation in the west. So its not even done any good.



You are correct, The Christian GOD is NOT factually proven. But there are alot of facts in the bible that HAVE been proven, such as locations, people, events etc. The point you are missing is NO GOD has been FACTUALLY proven. hence why every religion requires FAITH. FAITH by very definition is a belief in something regardless of evidence or facts. JUST LIKE ATHEISTS have FAITH that GOD DOESN'T exist.

The point is GOD is tradition. GOD is used in a way that it can be implied to any person. do buddhist believe budda was a form of god?, is allah god? so on and so forth.

The pledge does not say, " I pledge allegiance to the flag of the united states of america, one nation under GOD "The christian god though you know, jesus's dad, not those other imaginary gods" indivisable with liberty and justice for all"

GOD is put in it as an aknowlegment of something BIGGER and GREATER then any one of us as individuals.



Thank you...

Grim
edit on 28/6/2011 by Grimmley because: stupid enter key stuck >. extra DIV



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 07:35 AM
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reply to post by DrJay1975
 


OMG I missed this post THANK YOU... Some one else who understands it....

Grim



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 07:40 AM
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Originally posted by technical difficulties

Originally posted by CaptGizmo
I don't like cigarettes should they be banned? I also don't like Brussels sprouts, should they be banned? Atheist seem to think the world should change for their small minority. The fact that Atheist think we should take the wording "One Nation Under God" out of the pledge is kind of like one religion trying to tell the rest of us how and what we should do, even though I may not believe in their beliefs. It's hypocritical and just another group trying to impose their will upon others. Atheist are doing the same thing. No one forces you to recite the pledge of allegiance. I don't remember being forced to do it in school. and that was a long time ago.
Simply idiotic. None of those are even remotely comparable to the pledge of allegiance. God not being mentioned whatsoever isn't imposing atheism on anyone. It's not hypocritical at all. If it were mentioning that there are no gods whatsoever, then yes, that would be imposing atheism. If you want to believe this country is one nation under god, fine, that's your belief, just keep your beliefs out of the official pledge.


Originally posted by IgnorantiaNegant
The pledge itself wasn't always around, and as someone already been pointed out, "Under God" was added even more recently. I think it ought to be changed though. How about "One nation under the Constitution, indivisible, and with liberty and justice for all"? It's secular, without being anti-religious, and I don't think anyone would have a problem reciting it. I'm not religious and I'm not part of the Tea Party movement, still I think it would be healthy for the people taking the pledge on a regular basis, as well as the President himself upon inauguration, to be reminded of the founding principles of the country, as opposed to a religious view which just happens to be held by a large portion of the country.
Hard for right-wingers to argue against this proposal.
edit on 27-6-2011 by technical difficulties because: (no reason given)


Are you serious! What reason do you need to respond by stating that my post is idiotic!...You prove just by that statement alone that you are simply an obtuse poster with nothing of real value to add to this site. Way to go.NOT!



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 07:58 AM
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Originally posted by newcovenant
The recent Supreme Court decision to keep the phrase was not citing 1st Amendment violation as it should have, they were afraid to go there fearing a backlash from evangelists. I think that was disingenuous and cowardice from the Supreme Court but I have learned not to expect much more from the panel of Corporate shills.


Why should the Supreme Court fear a backlash from anyone? They're not going anywhere until they die or retire voluntarily. So is the cowardice represented by fear of evangelists, or corporations? Or are you suggesting the evangelists and corporations are one and the same? No matter what decision is made in any situation, it's bound to be agreed with by some group somewhere you find distasteful. It's a no-win for those with the thankless and enormous task of decision making, but blanket dismissiveness keeps you from actually doing any real thinking about it, so at least that's easy.

Does anyone even think about what they post prior to kneejerk regurgitation of whatever mental detritus happens to be drifting behind their eyes at the time?

Rhetorical. I already know the answer to that one.


edit on 6/28/11 by MrDesolate because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 09:05 AM
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Originally posted by gentledissident

Originally posted by guitarplayerChristmas
I have nothing to do on Thanksgiving or Easter anyway. But Xmas is for toys and parties.

Here's a preacher guy who says we shouldn't celebrate Xmas and Easter.
godkind.org...

Easter, Halloween, and Christmas are the three major religious celebrations of professing Christianity today. And all three violate the instructions of God concerning false Gods and false religious practices.

It's odd that he says Christains claim Halloween as well


As long as I have toys, fireworks, and scary masks, I'm a happy citizen.


Yes, Halloween is mix of different culture events.
See here: The origin/history of Halloween



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 09:08 AM
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Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by guitarplayer
reply to post by gentledissident
 


didn't say you could not celebrate them just not get holliday pay for them.


Why does the government have a Christian holiday?


Because of Tradition.
You don't change things like that in whim.



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