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I don't believe in "God" so why shouldn't God be taken out of the pledge?

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posted on Jun, 27 2011 @ 08:42 PM
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Originally posted by freedish
"I don't believe in "God" so why shouldn't God be taken out of the pledge?"

Because I do.

Theists range from 92% to 79% of the world's population.

Deal with it.


Because someone believes in God - - it should be in the Pledge.

Oh - now that is great reasoning




posted on Jun, 27 2011 @ 08:49 PM
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reply to post by Annee
 


Yes.
Because this nation was founded by pilgrims seeking to escape religious persecution from England.
They were christian.
They formed the US.
Thus, it is UNDER GOD.


By your logic, a person could question anything in the pledge. Why does it say "to the republic"? I don't believe that 'republics' are the best form of government so the phrase should be removed.

Just because YOU don't believe in God doesn't mean it should be taken out.



edit on 27-6-2011 by freedish because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 27 2011 @ 08:53 PM
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Originally posted by freedish
reply to post by Annee
 


Yes.
Because this nation was founded by pilgrims seeking to escape religious persecution from England.
They were christian.
They formed the US.
Thus, it is UNDER GOD.


Which has zero to do with the pledge and why it was written.

Tired old argument. We are not - nor have we ever been a Christian nation.



posted on Jun, 27 2011 @ 08:59 PM
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Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by freedish
reply to post by Annee
 


Yes.
Because this nation was founded by pilgrims seeking to escape religious persecution from England.
They were christian.
They formed the US.
Thus, it is UNDER GOD.


Which has zero to do with the pledge and why it was written.

Tired old argument. We are not - nor have we ever been a Christian nation.



LOLOLOL you're kidding right???

right???

hrmm let's see how many of our founding fathers and presidents believed in God...

Samuel Adams
The right to freedom being the gift of the Almighty...The rights of the colonists as Christians...may be best understood by reading and carefully studying the institutions of The Great Law Giver and Head of the Christian Church, which are to be found clearly written and promulgated in the New Testament.

Benjamin Franklin
I have lived, Sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth•that God governs in the affairs of men... If a sparrow cannot fall to the ground unseen by him, is it probable an empire could arise without his aid? I firmly believe this, and I also believe that without his concurring aid we shall succeed in this political building not better than the builders of Babel.

Alexander Hamilton
In my opinion, the present consitution is the standard to which we are to cling. Under its banner bona fide must we combat our political foes, rejecting all changes but through the channel itself provided for amendments. By these general views of the subject have my reflections been guided. I now offer you the outline of the plan they have suggested. Let an association be formed to be denominated "The Christian Constitutional Society," its object to be first: The support of the Christian religion. second: The support of the United States.

Patrick Henry
Amongst other strange things said of me, I hear it is said by the deists that I am one of the number; and indeed, that some good people think I am no Christian. This thought gives me much more pain than the appellation of Tory; because I think religion of infinitely higher importance than politics; and I find much cause to reproach myself that I have lived so long, and have given no decided and public proofs of my being a Christian. But, indeed, my dear child, this is a character which I prize far above all this world has, or can boast.

These are just a few quotes taken from personal correspondences from these men.
These men were very spiritual and many like Patrick Henry put God above politics or anything else.

Sir, you are just plain flat out, obviously wrong.

There are many more that were christian or believed in God then that which I listed, these are only just a few that I could find good evidence for in under 5 minutes.

Btw I will agree with part of your statement. You ARE right that we aren't a Christian nation anymore. However when this nation was first started until about 50 years ago we definitely were.

www.jameswatkins.com...
edit on 27-6-2011 by freedish because: (no reason given)

edit on 27-6-2011 by freedish because: (no reason given)

edit on 27-6-2011 by freedish because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 27 2011 @ 09:02 PM
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reply to post by newcovenant
 


never understood removing xmas trees, they aren't originally christian, they're germanic, more inline with Krampus than a dead guy who's his own dad



posted on Jun, 27 2011 @ 09:05 PM
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reply to post by Annee
 

here's a few more...

this one is our FIRST president of the united states of america. hmm lets see what he has to say about god and religion
GEORGE WASHINGTON FIRST PRESIDENT OF USA
"And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion…Reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principles.." (1)

Noah Webster
"No truth is more evident to any mind than that the Christian religion must be the basis of any government intended to secure the rights and privileges of a free people." (2)


Benjamin Rush
"The only foundation for a useful education in a republic is to be laid in religion. Without this there can be no virtue, and without virtue there can be no liberty, and liberty is the object and life of all republican governments... Without religion, I believe that learning does much mischief to the morals and principles of mankind." (3)

John Adams
"…it is Religion and Morality alone, which can establish the Principles upon which Freedom can securely stand." (4)

shall I go on?



posted on Jun, 27 2011 @ 09:12 PM
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reply to post by freedish
 


So wait, because the US was formed by people seeking religious freedom we should IGNORE our Constitutions clear guidelines as to how religious freedom is to be upheld?

The first Europeans here were indeed trying to escape religious persecution in countries where there was a state sponsored religion. And you think that means the STATE should sponsor a declaration of religious belief in the pledge. And you're accusing OTHER members of broken logic



posted on Jun, 27 2011 @ 09:15 PM
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freedish, I'm an atheist. Do I need to leave the country? Was I born on the wrong piece of land? Am I unable to follow the rules of the land? Should Christianity be required by law?



posted on Jun, 27 2011 @ 09:18 PM
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Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
reply to post by freedish
 


So wait, because the US was formed by people seeking religious freedom we should IGNORE our Constitutions clear guidelines as to how religious freedom is to be upheld?

The first Europeans here were indeed trying to escape religious persecution in countries where there was a state sponsored religion. And you think that means the STATE should sponsor a declaration of religious belief in the pledge. And you're accusing OTHER members of broken logic


Huh? What? When did i say we should ignore our constitution?

Huh when did I say that the state should sponsor a declaration of religious beliefs in the pledge? Where am I accusing other members of broken logic?

Did you even read my post? Or are you just making crazy assumptions about me and my beliefs?
edit on 27-6-2011 by freedish because: (no reason given)


*EDIT* I see now where i was accusing someone of broken logic... but what has that got to do with the topic at hand...?
edit on 27-6-2011 by freedish because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 27 2011 @ 09:18 PM
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Escaping religious persecution, so as to persecute other's religions.

And we wonder why America is so screwed up.

We want our religious freedom!

(Outta the way you pagan heathens!)



posted on Jun, 27 2011 @ 09:20 PM
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Originally posted by gentledissident
freedish, I'm an atheist. Do I need to leave the country? Was I born on the wrong piece of land? Am I unable to follow the rules of the land? Should Christianity be required by law?

What? when did I say you need to leave the country?

What rules are you unable to follow?

Should christianity by required by law? WHAT THE ***** where are you getting all these crazy questions and ideas from???


I never said or mentioned any of that. I was just loling at your statement about our nation never being christian.

No christianity shouldn't be enforced..and it isn't. No one will arrest you if you don't say under god in the pledge. But it is a fact that christianity is the dominant religion in the country and most people want to make a clear statement that our country is UNDER GOD. If you disagree then just don't say it.
edit on 27-6-2011 by freedish because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 27 2011 @ 09:23 PM
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reply to post by newcovenant
 


Because Communists don't believe in the Republic.

Being a republic, the nonacceptance of some does not necessitate a change. It's the same reason why we don't allow fascists to not say republic.
edit on 27-6-2011 by Gorman91 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 27 2011 @ 09:24 PM
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Originally posted by jimnuggits
Escaping religious persecution, so as to persecute other's religions.

And we wonder why America is so screwed up.

We want our religious freedom!

(Outta the way you pagan heathens!)

What? when does this happen?

everyone is free to practice their religion and nobody is forced to any religion.


edit on 27-6-2011 by freedish because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 27 2011 @ 09:25 PM
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reply to post by Annee
 


The idea of a pledge is not for the purposes of obiding what everyone believes. The point of a pledge is basically a majority rule.



posted on Jun, 27 2011 @ 09:28 PM
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reply to post by freedish
 




They were christian.
They formed the US.
Thus, it is UNDER GOD.


From this quote I gather that you are in favor of keeping Under God in the pledge.

Having Under God in the official government certified Pledge directly violates the first amendment as it puts a stamp of approval on a Monotheistic capital G God alienating polytheists and atheists.

You back up having the Under God in the pledge by saying the first settlers here were religious. Indeed they were religious, they were seeking religious FREEDOM. In America religious freedom is protected by the first amendment which clearly is meant to set up a wall of separation to prevent state sponsored religion and to stop the government from at all establishing an affiliation with a religion. There are only a few religions with a capital G monotheistic God and I'm guessing the folks who put Under God the pledge back in the 50s weren't thinking of Allah or the Old Testament God. I'd say its a clear and obvious violation of the first amendment.



Just because YOU don't believe in God doesn't mean it should be taken out.


This has a total of nothing to do with what you or I believe or what you or I want, it's about Constitutionality. Personally I don't care if the pledge has the words Under God in it UNLESS that pledge is made official by the government (which is has). Theist or atheist anyone who cares about freedom of religion should want it removed.

Edit to Add: Where you called the logic of other members into question:



By your logic, a person could question anything in the pledge

edit on 27-6-2011 by Titen-Sxull because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 27 2011 @ 09:30 PM
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Originally posted by freedish where are you getting all these crazy questions and ideas
(fixed your dangling participle) I've been reading posts about this being a Christian nation, and I should accept that or leave the country. We've been referred to as murderous sub-humans. I'm just wondering where Christians stand as a group regarding atheists

Since God, I assume the Christian God, is all over the government, I would think there should be a law about respecting Christianity, being it's official and all.



posted on Jun, 27 2011 @ 09:30 PM
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reply to post by freedish
 


Oh yeah?

Ask a Navajo how that worked out...



posted on Jun, 27 2011 @ 09:32 PM
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Originally posted by freedish
reply to post by Annee
 


edit on 27-6-2011 by freedish because: (no reason given)


Would you tolerate your children being taught songs about Allah? They might not believe in him but people do, so according to your logic we must sing songs about Allah.



posted on Jun, 27 2011 @ 09:34 PM
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Originally posted by The_Zomar

Originally posted by freedish
reply to post by Annee
 


edit on 27-6-2011 by freedish because: (no reason given)


Would you tolerate your children being taught songs about Allah? They might not believe in him but people do, so according to your logic we must sing songs about Allah.

I think you may have missed the sarcasm.



posted on Jun, 27 2011 @ 09:43 PM
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Originally posted by newcovenant

Why IS it necessary?
Peoples identities are wrapped up in them and like sports teams our allegiance comes with colors and customs. I think it is part of a method of controlling the masses and manipulating their actions at any given time.



Why dont you do a little research and find out why people pledged loyalty to their nation? Like the fact that humans are social animals who compete in groups, and these groups have gotten larger over time but still compete fiercely, (just ask Iraq, Libya, or Afghanistan) and that your group, literally determines whether you live or die, and how well you live.

You pledge allegiance to the flag of your nation because if you werent some TV trained monkey, you would know that your nation is responsible for everything you are. Its why you arent working in some third world sweatshop making plastic crap that some consumers in a better nation buy for pennies thanks to your slave labor. You would know your nation is why you arent being blown to cat food by some larger more technically advanced nation because they want your oil or mineral resources and they, as a more cohesive and organized group, can take them from you.

Thats why you pledge allegiance to the flag. Because in the past, if you did not agree to be loyal to the group they tossed you out on your butt and you were a dead man (or women) walking. You are nothing without your group. And today our groups are not tribes, they are nations. Nothing has changed. You are still nothing without your group. Well, almost nothing has changed. Today, people are so dumbed down from reality because they spend all their time in solitary egoistic pursuits that even though they are utterly, and totally dependent upon the collective for every single element of their lives, they dont realize that fact. And so they allow their nation, their group, to be torn apart and destroyed from within by various economic interests and their own stupidity.

/rant

As to the OP, who cares if under God is in there? It was added in the 50's? Sometime relatively recently, and sure, it really shouldnt be in there, but just dont say it when YOU recite the pledge. It plays just as well when you omit the word since it was an addition. The important part is that you are pledging your loyalty to your nation, and your fellow citizens, and the God part isnt really that big a deal as most people believe in some sort of higher power, and for them the word God is generic enough, and the minority who dont can just skip it all on their own rather than argue about it.


edit on 27-6-2011 by Illusionsaregrander because: (no reason given)




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