I don't believe in "God" so why shouldn't God be taken out of the pledge?

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander



Rape is often done by social rejects, where as before it was done normally to the gods by common people. These divisive wars are not really all that other than from rich people wanting their will done. If what you say was true, I would have to see a significantly civilized location in a state of divisive war with majority Christian. I can think of Eastern Europe as a decent example, but they're not exactly modern nor majority Christian.

You really cannot in any way attach our letting go of those practices to Christianity since Christianity was present for about 1850 years of that behavior. And lets not forget, the divisive wars are still going on, just not in America.

Divisive wars between primitives. We're talking about modern people. After all, that's the whole reason you used Greece as an example.

Christianity is absolutely NOT responsible for any improvement in the character of the common man. Or the behavior of the common man for that matter. And while you cannot accuse them of sacrificing virgins to their gods, you certainly can accuse them of sacrificing "savage heathens" to their God all over the world. And torturing men and women alike who refused to convert, or who werent Christian enough.

At most you can say that about the Europeans. Of which, were they really Christian? Were they really doing anything other than what their kings said? or what the pope said?

If I were to go and actually look at the attitudes of the people whom fought slavery and abuses, many of them in the 1500-1800s were Christian. Christ defines what a Christian is, therefore, when someone goes and does their own thing, how can I call them Christian? Good example is "the Lord's army". They claim to be Christian, but worship a woman who calls herself a witch as their leader. Yea sure, that's Christian.

The topic at hand was a comparison of people before Christianity and after Christianity. among st civilized people. The fact remains that before Christianity, Rome and Greece's common man were rifled with war, savagery, constant civil war, constant enslavement, constant struggle. And when they became Christian, the gladiator games shut down, the slave trade greatly reduced, and the common man became something of a respectable peasant. These peasants soon became organized socially progressive civilians in free nations.

If you want to go and put in primitives, of course it looks bad. Because we began with he topic of civilized people. Add in barbarians and it all goes to hell. When looking at civilized people , specifically Rome, those areas under the influence of the first Christians, the common man improved. Even today in China, with an exploding Christian population, the value of human life is increasing amongst Christians whom defend their humanity.

how to say this,

there is nothing wrong with the pledge as it is and it is for american citizens,

where we have god given rights. not government given, altho they try to take more away everyday.

can i trust you people when it starts flying?

will some of you cave in to the oppressors and shoot me in the back? are you for justice for all and indivisible?

sounds like the people who want to remove those words are just out for themselves.

atheists have no right to force me or anyone to change our beliefs. you are free to NOT believe anything you want in the us. that is the point of the pledge and "under god".

don't believe in god or don't want to see christmas trees? sounds like a personal problem.

also sounds like they have a very uninspired life. being all just happenstance to be conscious and alive an all. just a bunch of molecules and atoms, taking up space and O2.


but i digress,

hallelujah brothers and sisters, the lord givith and some whack jobs want to taketh away.

triple post!!

ddbl post

reply to post by XJMatt


If Jesus knew he was the son of God, what was his sacrifice? That's like giving you all the money in my pocket, knowing full well I have a winning lottery ticket at home.

How can God be everything and yet you can be sent to a place where He is not?

Many illogical ideas, so renounce away!

reply to post by jimnuggits


yeah, that's the point tho, ain't it.

Atheists are one step above Religious people. They have sense and an openness that religious people do not. Atheists do not need to hide behind a wall of pretense in order to feel good about what they do.

As this is 2011 and no 565 AD the belief in god should be taken as a joke or light comedy at best.

In the UK they place the Queen on their money and show "allegiance" to her. (Well they are supposed to).

In the US it seems that god is more of a brainwashing technique rather than any form of true morality in which to live your life by.

Look at what America is doing to the world and ask yourselves if this is really people who fear a god. I think not.

Having god in the pledge is just a form of overlord type forceful mind control that makes people feel part of something that is really not there.

reply to post by TheButcher23


I thought believing in god was a joke? but seriously, if you take away that on the pledge, then you need to take "In God we trust" off of every American bank note, just leave it be because if you choose to take it away from it then the states will be in more debt than they already are.

Originally posted by fooks can i trust you people when it starts flying?

Yes.

Originally posted by fooks also sounds like they have a very uninspired life. being all just happenstance to be conscious and alive an all. just a bunch of molecules and atoms, taking up space and O2.

I have a very full life. When I get to know people, I wonder why their lives aren't as full as mine. Even if the reality of life got me depressed, why would irrationally believing in God get me out of depression? I do believe in the willing suspension of disbelief and enjoy entertainment such as Star Wars ( yes, all 6 episodes. I'm looking forward to the last 3 being made as a reboot with minimal CGI. I guess that's an irrational belief )

reply to post by newcovenant
Yes, just another one of those topics where people can sound off and expound a little. It was added during the Eisenhower administration when fear of Communism ran rampant! Republicans love to play on people's fears or haven't you noticed that ? FDR says, there is nothing to fear but fear itself, followed by George Bush trying to scare everyone to death with terrorists standing on every corner. The country is full of balmy people so that it is easy to intimidate and frighten anyone...Sorry for expounding so long, but one nation Under God is symbolic...In the end, today's acts of God as legal terms call acts of Nature is proving that saying to be so true that even a sane Aetheist cannot dispute it...so happy to have something to expound upon now.

Originally posted by jimnuggits
reply to post by XJMatt

 

If Jesus knew he was the son of God, what was his sacrifice? That's like giving you all the money in my pocket, knowing full well I have a winning lottery ticket at home.

How can God be everything and yet you can be sent to a place where He is not?

Many illogical ideas, so renounce away!

The sacrifice that Jesus ( in the idea that he was an ACTUAL person) is the fact that regardless of whether or not he KNEW he was the son of god, He died for YOUR and everyother persons sins. That was HIS sacrifice. Whether you believe it happened or not does not matter much. Even if it was ONLY a story the Idea behind that is more then you , I or anyone else can truly fathom.

Can you honestly sit here and say that YOU could knowingly and willingly allow YOURSELF to be treated as cruely as he was, beaten, stabbed, cruscified, denied even a slight drip of water to quench your thirst, humiliated spit on forced to have a crown of thorns shoved into the flesh of your forehead, and hung on a cross for all to witness your death, to save mankind? The very people that have just caused your emminent torture and death.

EVEN IF it was just a story, I highly doubt youd be 1/100th of the man that Jesus was in his little supposed fairytale.


As far as how can god be everything but you can be sent to a place where he is not , please elaborate on your question for in all honesty I do not understand the question or point you are trying to make.

As far as me renouncing my faith, you have yet to provide 1 single solitairy peice of evidence that states accepting christianity is in illogical choice. If anything you have shown me that you fail to read, digest, think, and provide a factual or even suitable argument for your case.

I truly am willing to listen and see any and all points my mind is fully open, as i stated I am not a diehard christian extremeist I am simply a man that hase my own opinions on god and my own relationship with him. I do not believe in organized religion i feel it makes you no better then the man that lives in a mountainside with nothing more then a few tattered remnants from the bible. everyone be it every week church goers or people that have never set foot in a church. will have there very own relationship with god. organization is nice but not needed.

As long as it's not coercive i.e. demanded of someone, I could care less. You can pledge your allegiance to the sky, your garden gnome, etc., As a Christian, I certainly am not so sensitive as to see ANY non-Christian relic on public property a direct assault on my person, that's ridiculous. You want to pray to Brahma in a public building? Go right ahead. You want it to be a collective prayer where everyone who shares similar beliefs, and they are sincere, to pray to Brahma? Go ahead. I'll sit patiently. I'm not going to obnoxiously stand up and tell you you're hurting my feelings.

This either-or nonsense doesn't help anyone. If you don't want to say the pledge, don't say it. If you do, great, say it. That's the beauty of individual liberty.

reply to post by shadowx089


I'm guessing a serious psychological problem?

Originally posted by bftroop
reply to post by newcovenant

 

Our republic was founded on Christian beliefs. Our laws, Constitution, Bill of Rights and The Declaration all Christian based.

No - not really.

But - I'm tired of that debate.

Originally posted by misterbananas
reply to post by TheButcher23

 

I thought believing in god was a joke?

but seriously, if you take away that on the pledge, then you need to take "In God we trust" off of every American bank note, just leave it be because if you choose to take it away from it then the states will be in more debt than they already are.

For all those who throw "In God We Trust" - - into the current subject.

Supreme Court Rejects ‘In God We Trust’ Lawsuit

For the second time, a lawsuit brought by Michael Newdow has made its way to the Supreme Court… only to be dismissed.

Newdow famously tried to remove “Under God” from the Pledge of Allegiance in 2002, but the Supreme Court said in 2007 that he “lacking standing” to bring the case to them and dismissed it.

More recently, the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in San Francisco ruled against him in his attempt to get “In God We Trust” off the currency, saying that “the phrase is ceremonial and patriotic and ‘has nothing whatsoever to do with the establishment of religion.’”… so Newdow appealed his case to the Supreme Court.

Yesterday, the Court refused to hear his case, effectively putting an end to this attempt at righting a wrong.

The phrase never should have been put on our paper money in the first place. But most people never care to learn about the history of that era; they wrongly attribute the placement to “tradition” instead of to a reaction to the “Godless Communists.”

friendlyatheist.com...

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by bftroop
reply to post by newcovenant

 

Our republic was founded on Christian beliefs. Our laws, Constitution, Bill of Rights and The Declaration all Christian based.

No - not really.

But - I'm tired of that debate.

Amazing that some think this, but never actually spend any time researching it. Dogmatic repetition seems to confound common sense, logic, and real knowledge. Treaty of Tripoli? Signed by John Adams? No?
Didn't think so.

As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion

Unless there's a claim that anyone on this board knows the intentions of the founders of the republic better than John Adams.
No? Didn't think so.

"GOD" can be removed as a word from documents and some may even remove it from their own dialectic but, that feeling of "GOD" or the "LIGHT" will always be there. Some people in this world may think there is no GOD and some in this world, in this lifetime may even argue that "GOD" does not exist but, there are also those living still today and those that have passed on that will tell you otherwise. There are even those that have dabbled on the dark side and have came back to the light that will tell you, there is a GOD.

It is up to each person that walks on this earth to believe or not just as it is up to each person that walks on this earth to choose for him or herself to decide that they want to stay in the light or live in the dark.

I don't know who GOD is or what he looks like just like I don't know who the devil is or what he looks like but, I can tell you stories of my dark side and I can tell you stories of my light side. I also know that living in the light is a lot better than living in the dark and I believe alot of people will say the same thing.

So, if there is not a GOD and there is not a devil then how do we have light? How do we have dark? How do we have good people and how do we have bad people? How does a person fall so far into the abyss and then is some how able to come back out? How can a person be so down on their luck and then somehow rise above it all and come out on top?

There will always be good and there will always be evil and good will always prevail because it is just that way. No one in this forum can ever or will ever be able to research that statement and come up with with anything in past history that will say otherwise.

That is where GOD comes from, he comes from the LIGHT. GOD is above all else and he always will be no matter what is ever said in past and present. You can believe in the bad and you can believe in the dark and the devil but you will always know that there is light and that light is good, that light is GOD and GOD is good, GOD is the light.

reply to post by mustangill


How is there good and evil? Hmm...freewill? In fact didnt your god give you that? Btw what is the name of your god, Im curious.

PS: Claiming to know somethings there when you cant prove it is bull-oney. Its like saying "the earth is flat, and never was round!"

Come now...if we can't have it removed, then can we at least have it updated to the latest name of God.


Just change it to "under allah"

Ya, thought so...not to worry though, eventually it will change to that when 51% either become muslim, or simply don't care.

Do I care if it is "Under Allah"? ...would feel exactly the same as I feel now...however, you christians might throw a fit.

Still think govermnent has a role in pushing religious words and institutions?

Rome was founded on pagan beliefs...a whole lot of good that did for preservation...demand your goverment stop pushing religious matters before you actually succeed, (because success will not be your ideal view of it)

Originally posted by gentledissident

Originally posted by fooks can i trust you people when it starts flying?

Yes.

Originally posted by fooks also sounds like they have a very uninspired life. being all just happenstance to be conscious and alive an all. just a bunch of molecules and atoms, taking up space and O2.

I have a very full life. When I get to know people, I wonder why their lives aren't as full as mine. Even if the reality of life got me depressed, why would irrationally believing in God get me out of depression? I do believe in the willing suspension of disbelief and enjoy entertainment such as Star Wars ( yes, all 6 episodes. I'm looking forward to the last 3 being made as a reboot with minimal CGI. I guess that's an irrational belief

)

wow, very fullfilling life!

you are blessed! really, god smiles down on you and spielburg or is it lucas

as you smile up at them.

i don't need to see you in heaven, lol! so not christian like! lol!!

you know heaven has movies so real you can't see any CGI!