Respect, Corruption, Law Enforcement and You

I just went through the thread again and did not see anyone mentioning a 'dropper'.

Some cops call it a 'backup'. A stolen weapon that they have lifted off a suspect years before that they carry as an insurance policy, used after they shoot an unarmed person.

They drop it on the ground beside the victim after they have killed him without cause.

It is not just a story from the movies. I know several LEO's that carry them now and retired officers that carried them in the past, at least that is what they professed to me.

Dear OP:

I respect the job you do, but I do not have the same respect for the ones who "work" the job because time and time again, they have shown me, locally, provincially, nationally, dare I say world wide; how they get away with anything they can.

Look up ANY G20 meeting.
The most recent one in Toronto. 1 billion dollars spent on "securing" protesters who ended up rioting downtown while they "kettled" a few hundred protestors and local people two blocks away. Millions of dollars spent on military style "sound cannons", paramilitary gear for those SWAT style "brothers" of yours to "protect themselves".

Is it a made up story that an amputee who was at Queens park with his daughter that day got his leg ripped off and used to beat him because he couldn't get up as quickly as the officer wanted him to?

Is it a made up story that a 19 year old in crisis was shot and killed in his own apartment by two police officers over a noise complaint?

Is it a made up story that Robert Dzienkawski was killed by use of excessive taser use by the RCMP? Would this of even went to court if the video had not been released publicly?

Maybe officers would not be sued if they didn't take advantage of their positions. How can you sue a cop who did their job right? It's nearly impossible, because even the ones who do not do the job right and end up getting sued have great lawyers repping them for free and usually get away with no criminal record or smudge on their "reps". Do the families who encounter these problems with LEOs have the same rights, and access to such great lawyers? Nope... but then again, I'm probably just making all this up? Right?

You are just showing the "us vs. Them" mentality that has been engrained into your training. It's a shame. I remember the days when I used to wave at an officer and they would smile and wave back as they drove by in their cruisers. Now... well, now things have indeed changed.

reply to post by semperfortis


I have to assume that the OP is honest when he claims he does not understand why the public does not seem to respect the police like they used to.

One need only look as far as how the police are identified by their departments.

The popular title parlance today is Law Enforcement Officer (LEO)

In the past the policeman was known as Constable Of the Peace (COP)

What's in a name, you say? Everything. What has happened is that the police are no longer identified as a "servant of the people". He is an officer of "The State". He must impose his will on the citizen and exercise control of them. He often is given quotas to meet to raise revenues for the cash-strapped state coffers. IE: US agaainst THEM.

I DO NOT trust the police. They often end up arresting the person who calls for help. Why? Because of their "Us against Them" mentallity... we all look the same. Respect goes both ways, OP. Want respect? Give it and get your LEO buddies to show it as well.

Policemen ARE NOT your "friend". Steer clear of them. Avoid them.

Originally posted by butcherguy
Have you ever encountered a fellow law enforcement officer that was drinking and driving while off duty?

I have observed this act occurring with LEO's repeatedly, and it makes my blood boil.

A local cop of mine died that way. Luckily no one else was injured or killed. I see his death as karma in action though, being that he was a drug dog handler, helping perpetuate the War on Drugs, which perpetuates the Drug War in Mexico, which has killed an estimated 40,000 people since 2006.

I'm not against police officers personally, just some of the stuff they enforce. Just because a law is in place doesn't mean it's a just law, like the Jim Crow laws of past, for example.

I've been on ATS for about a year now, known the Jarhead (Semper) about the same amount of time. I've seen alot of LEO bashing threads in that time, and the ones that ATTEMPT to praise a LEO are quickly filled up with the cop bashers and haters.
Someone said earlier that they would rather call a gangbanger before the cop, that tells you the mentality of some people. The 'banger would most likely hurt you as much as the actual criminal!

In the last 10 years of life I've been in a position where someone would grow to hate LEO's, I've been arrested, did time in jail AND prison, and on probation, and not ONE LEO, jailer, correction officer or probation officer have gone out of their way to harass me, bother me or generally screw with me. They ALL have been respectful, courteous and in some instances, gone out of their way to help me with one issue or another while in their custody.
The ONLY TIME they go after me is when I BREAK a law, such as speeding (yes, I have a lead foot), then I pay the penalty.
Its been my experience that those that yell the loudest about cop hating, are those breaking the law in one way or the other, and called to the table for it, and mad they got caught.
I know there are bad apples out there, but the good ones far outshine the bad ones.
For all you LEO's out here in tinfoil land, keep yup the good work, I respect ALL of you

reply to post by EagleTalonZ

To the OP:
Do you regret starting this thread now that you have basically opened Pandora's Box?

Not at all!!!

This thread was created and has progressed exactly as I knew it would. The usual haters showed up and posted the same old hater comments.

Everyone needs an outlet, even haters, so I made this thread.

Everyone should try and understand this, no matter how difficult it is to open your mind, try.

Here on ATS we are a microcosm of society and a very specific one at that. We do not represent the majority of the world or even the United States. So I have no, had no, illusions as to the reactions I would get. This is not my first thread, or even my first thread on this subject.

There is still a lot of respect out there in the public for us, I still get invited up on a porch for tea and invited to homes for dinner; nearly as much as I used to. I still have mothers hug me when I put a child abuser away and fathers shake my hand when I bring their sons home.

The statistics have been shown to all of you; as expected some of you ignored them or feebly attempted to attack them.

It is going exactly as expected thank you



Semper

Originally posted by Fractured.Facade

Originally posted by semperfortis

4. I worked Internal Affairs for years

Quick question on this for you Semper....

How do you feel about citizen review boards, that are tasked with reviewing cases that have been through internal affairs??

Absolutely necessary in my opinion!!!

One of the problems with many smaller departments now here in the south is the lack of civilian review. When I worked up north, almost all of the departments had them and they are a wonderful tool for checks and balances.

reply to post by Fractured.Facade


In my opinion the greatest power the CRB has is one of transparency.

Their ability to examine cases and particular instances and make them public, at their discretion, is the key. Again in my opinion.

Originally posted by MachiventaMelchizedek
So what's your point? Am i supposed to feel "bad" for you? Isnt this what you get paid for, to approach the criminal element in life and make it right according to the law!

If im reading your post right you are criticizing your own for being young and impulsive. if so i salute you for seeing the truth but that is all.

So now to the brass tax. your upset that sue happy america is suing cops for being dirtbags. LMFAO what a joke.

what can we do when police beat the living crap out of someone for spray painting graffiti. We can fight back no no no that would be a felony assualt on a officer, then you get to go away for a long time. We cant shoot back because that means forever in jail, most of us dosnt want that.

So they sue they only thing availible to the population to strike back at the corruption. Yes i said it CORRUPTION.

Police should be shinning pillars of the law NOT ABOVE THE LAW. When i say corruption i am pointing to the entire institution of police in america, the courts and half of the judges.

Yes i believe 99% of cops are corrupt. Ihave said before my uncle and aunt are cops and they both can "F" off.

Police in america even the whole system needs to be updated. Go to youtube where you can see your fellow officers being shinning examples of the community.

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or this one, skip to the 2 minute mark or watch the entire video
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This is why we dont trust or respect you, you are all evil and belong in hell!

Well that pretty much sums it up

I almost felt bad for you OP for a second reading how hard it must be to put your fellow human being citizens in a rape cage just because they had a baggy of pot. But then I came back to the real world.

Just judging you as a human being, you are running around in a souped up car designed to catch people, with guns,electrical devices that disable people, stuff you spray in peoples faces, to say the least you are intimidating and scary. If any other group of people were running around with guns and walkie talkies capturing people and holding them hostage until you get a ransom, we would arrest them and put them in the rape cage.

You can say you are defending the law, but who makes the laws? Corrupt rich politicians... and we all hate them.

Basically you are a group of people that enforce taxation, and at the same time stop a real criminal every month of so.

If you lived in a house with 10 people, and there was a thing in the house that takes people and puts them in rape cages, don't you think people would start to think " ugh, i don't want to go in the rape cage anymore, theres 10 of us and only 1 of it, what can we do to stop the thing putting us into the rape cage?"

Thats why I treat every cop that wants to talk to me with respect and am very polite, because I don't want to go into the rape cage >.< otherwise I would run for my life.

Originally posted by OneNationUnder
Semperfortis:

If you can tell your 1985 self something, what would you tell him?

And,

Out of all the things, what does your 1985 self tell your current self the most?

Stay in the Marines and get that retirement!!!



Then pursue my career..

reply to post by HomerinNC


"Its been my experience that those that yell the loudest about cop hating, are those breaking the law in one way or the other, and called to the table for it, and mad they got caught."

So you are implying the fallacy that those who are pointing out and bringing to light the misdeeds of Cops are breaking the Law ehhh?

That is NOT the case for me, and many, many others. You insinuate that this is the only reason. It is not. And you know it. You are presenting a circular dichotomy. Those that show righteious idignation at the attitudes and behavoir of Cops are Criminals who full butt hurt they got caught, opposed to People who obey the law Love and admire Cops and have nothing ever bad to say about them.

Let us say that a Family is the victim; there are many today, of abusive Cops, and they start a website espousing such dirty deeds to the World with VIGOR every chance they get. By your fallacious reasoning, these People are obviously Criminals; by your experience of course, and should be ignored. Such Orwellian Double Speak is what got us into this situation to begin with.

reply to post by WeRpeons

What are your thoughts about officers arresting people for videoing arrests?

While I find it annoying, I have no problem with it.

I suppose most people would be annoyed if I should up and started filming them at work, but again, it is what it is and it has happened to me numerous times. No big deal.

Semper

reply to post by HermitShip


JUST as you insinuate ALL cops are bad, right???
The argument can go both ways

reply to post by semperfortis


Actually I have not seen any hater comments by definition. I see you acting the way you People usually act. You are always right, and everyone else that disagrees with you is wrong.

You should consider the input from your Employers, as there is valid arguments that have been made.

And as another poster pointed out, if you continue to get the same message from the public, then it is you guys that truly do have a problem.

But you as well offer a fallacy, and proclaim that criticisms against you is hating, while not even addressing any of the criticisms because "you have heard it all before".

Really? Is that the level of your ability to debate? Just dismiss the issue? That is nothing but a little child screaming "la la la la la la la" while talking over a Person and holding his ears.

reply to post by HomerinNC


Ok, you are right, Sheriff Mack is not a bad lawman. He stands up for the Constitution and what is right, and calls out bad cops when he sees them. I have not seen any others do so in public. So by definition of Law, there is Conspiracy involved and collusion to commit fraud against the public by protecting their "fellows of the craft".

And by the way, I give credit where credit is due, and Semper not minding being videoed and Civilian oversight committees is praiseworthy.

But then again, Cops are legally allowed to lie when conducting investigations, so how can this statement be trusted when the act of lying becomes so common place?

Lets evaluate this subject via the lens of Psychology, and see if it shed light on the subject.

Specifically, the Personality Traits of a Psychopath:

Characteristics:

"Psychopathy, also known as sociopathy, is a personality disorder characterized by selfishness, ruthlessness and the inability to feel guilt or empathy. They are callous, remorseless and spectacularly self-centered, willing to use and abuse others to achieve their ends, and they are inclined to blame others, including their victims, for their problems and bad behavior.

The emotional capacity of the psychopath is extremely primitive, comprising “proto-emotions,” or reactions to immediate needs rather than the depth of feeling that others experience. When trying to manipulate others into feeling sympathy for them or guilt for questioning their motives, psychopaths can be quite dramatic and forceful, but this is a smoke-and-mirrors display, designed to obscure the lack of emotional depth the psychopath possesses.

Arrogant and shameless, psychopaths tend to brag. They are very self-assured, cocky and often domineering. They push their opinions onto others and can’t understand why anyone would disagree with them.

The psychopath never feels that there is anything wrong with him or with his behavior. It is everyone else who is in the wrong.

Psychopaths are incapable of feeling guilt or remorse for anything they’ve done because they can’t empathize with others. They tend to view guilt as a liability or weakness in other people, and feel that they are superior because they don’t experience it and can therefore be as ruthless as they like.

Interviewed after committing horrible crimes, many psychopaths insist that their victims deserved it or even that they did their victims a favour. They rationalize, justify or deny any wrongdoing, while perceiving themselves as victims of an unfair society." www.suite101.com...

How many Cops manifest these symptoms; by no means all the symptoms, today

And more importantly, what are we going to do to fix the problem for our sake as a Public in regards to these manifestations by Cops towards us?

No remorse. No guilt. No empathy. We have done nothing wrong is the continued Mantra of Cops. Hmmmmmm.....

While I do not know enough about the US except what my relatives report.. I have seen a similar change in the UK on policing.. The older policemen I know have a firm understanding of law and how to interpreted the law have been replaced with police officers who only know enough to enforce what they are told irrespective of the legality of the situation. e.g the really poor advice given by the government to enforcement officers over taking photos in places like London.

From a personal stance the change has been dramatic over the last 30 years... and I'll relate an experience (If your inclined to be bored) of the differences in approach..

So within a couple of hours of passing my driving test in the 1980s and buying my first car I was pulled over by 2 policemen, it turned out in my naivety I brought a box of junk, that was mostly illegal (I was to eager to be my own man and go forth out into the world)

With todays police officers enforcing laws I would have been arrested, had the car taken away and scrapped, my licence revoked and at best fined in the courts... leaving me at least thousands out of pocket and I suspect a deep sense of hatred/loathing towards those enforcement officers.

But instead those policemen took me round my pile of junk, explaining what to look for when buying a car and what was wrong with mine.. after this lesson they suggested I go back to the car dealer and get him to fix the issues, even suggesting I tell the car dealer if he didn't he would be getting a visit from them.

What I learnt that day I used in every car purchase I have made since, and generated the great respect I had for them.. instead of being out of pocket I got a road legal car I was deeply proud of, a deep sense of respect for the police and was a happy bunny to boot

This change in policing has destroyed all trust and faith I have in the Police as a whole.. but I lay the blame for that squarely at the feet of governments who want Law enforcement that works on their behalf rather than Policemen who work for the betterment of society.

Anyway, that's my whinge for the day.. but I hope one day to see a return of policemen to our streets.. but I know I won't be holding my breath.

Originally posted by semperfortis
Ahhhh

The inevitable "Cop Haters" and the "I'll never call the cops" persona's show up right on schedule..

I do have to thank you all for the laughs.

Understand that I have been hearing the same garbage in real life, not from an anonymous, perfectly safe keyboard in some basement somewhere, for just short of 30 years. It is so predictable and every time exactly the same, it is far more hilarious that any comedy show.

Semperfortis:

I got this far in the thread, read your statement and felt that I had to respond.

You see, your above statement is quite the position that is so revolting. It personifies the exact problem. LEO's think us losers are wrong in our perceptions and critiques of LEO's and their handling of situations. It's like they are always right/inocent.

I am offended by this mind-set. It immediately discounts the accusations of the public, even if valid. Almost as if we are guilty (wrong) until proven innocent (right). That's a very bad percention for the public to have of LEO's - yet we did not paint that perception. It is based on observation of what is going on. The LEO's installed that perception in the public's mind.

Please answer me this:

Why is it illegal for a person to video tape any law officer or agent in public?

Conversely, why is it legal for LEO's to video tape the public?

Since LEO's work for the public, why is this a problem for the LEO's? If they are following the law to the T, then there should be no issue with the recordings. It's almost as if LEO's know they are wrong and don't wish to be caught. The situation becomes personal to the LEO. Why? (Does my question make sense to you?)

What is good for the goose must be good for the gander, and that does not seem to be the case. How can a law abiding citizen refute that LEO's do? Video is the best method of recording a given event. It allows for transparency, and would lead to respect again. The proof would be inthe pudding.

Once an LEO is recorded on tape doing something wrong, he is now on the opposite side of the law - a criminal, and should be treated like we are - guilty until proven innocent. Again, what is good for the goose is good for the gander.

We all know that the internal affairs department is biased. They do not have our interest at heart.

What do LEO's have to fear if they are recorded? I am still having trouble understanding this concern.

I mean no disrespect to anyone, but I have trouble in grasping the recording premise.

Thank you,

-E2

ha ha ha

semper looks as though most of the public dont got your back. I apologize semper if i hurt your feelings or any other cop lovers out there. Its just a critical issue to me and i get very angry at our situation here in good ol america, and i get even more upset when i know there is nothing that can be done about it.

People film you semper to try to keep you in line, the problem is you dont care about the people and what they think about you or your co-workers. Its a sad day here in a supposed freedom loving america when you see a bunch of cops beating someone down and you cant take out your camera to film it outta fear that the police might throw me in jail or maybe the will just beat me up just like they did this guy on the ground. Bloody from the excessive force used on this individual, crying from the pepper spray thrown on him. And maybe those cuffs thrown on him might be just a little tight considering the officer never double locked the cuffs just squeezed them as tight as they could.

So i see a guy get beat up and i know its wrong but there is nothing i can do, every element in my body says help that man those cops are killing him, but my brain says dont do it they will beat you up and throw you but in jail.

So how is it ok to commit a crime when enforcing crime??

Someone also pointed out that you are ignoring everyone comments on your thread, and pretending the issue we speak about dont exist. take a look back and read through everyone's comments and see how its just not me its the entire world who see's your tactics as unjust.

We have been in this police state before ( 1770) when the british loved to patrol the colonies enforcing there laws it took the death of Crispus Attucks to spark the revolutionary war to end the totalitarianism police state our founding fathers lived in.

Its my beliefs that the public is waiting for a Crispus Attucks to happen in 2011 and when it does well like i said it happened before and the public won, which resulted in its independence.

Your on the wrong side Semper. Statistics means nothing when people dont report your evildoings. i have been harased before but what to do, who do i report this to. And to add insult to injury the majority of people harassed in america is the poor. Yes poor folks can do dumb things and deserve to be arrested. But not beaten up, gassed, or tazed!!! Or shot jesus it seems like common sense.

i have read through your post on this thread semper and my comments have been made valid through your ignorance of what the general public is asking for. A legitimate police force who dont plant evidence, who dont beat the public up over a camera being used to document YOUR ILLEGAL ACTIVITIES.

Internal affairs is a joke. The day will come semper when the public has had enough of your bully tactics.
Ya you got swat and tech on your side but we got numbers and thankfully the goverment hasnt taken away our guns yet. so good luck semper your gonna need it.

Love me